2004: My Next Wireless Phone

2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

OK. I thought I should wish a little here.

I saw the wireless handset I want to get in 2004 while attending
TechShare in the U.K. this past November. You can read about this phone
at:

http://www.owasys.com

*	It is supposed to be available in Spain now, and in the U.K.
*	soon.

*	It is supposed to be available in the U.S. sometime in 2004. I
*	may wait.

This phone has no screen. It's 100% designed to be used without sight.
And, it runs our favorite OS.


-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Ann Parsons]

Hi Janina,

I found that web site difficult to navigate.  Need to try it when I
have more time.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Buddy Brannan]

Ooh! Well dammit, I won't be able to have it until '05...my contract
with Verizon doesn't expire until then. (Growl)  
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden 
Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

Oh, the telco's don't mind you getting new hardware. They just use it as
an excuse to get you to sign a new 1 or 2 year contract. 

Buddy Brannan writes:
> From: Buddy Brannan <davros@ycardz.com>
> 
> Ooh! Well dammit, I won't be able to have it until '05...my contract
> with Verizon doesn't expire until then. (Growl)  
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden 
> Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
> ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
> http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Buddy Brannan]

Oh, I know, but if this phone's for the European market, I betcha a
cold cheeseburger it's a GSM phone--means I'd have to change to a GSM
carrier, no?  
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden 
Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

You didn't read my message carefully! <grin>

They're also planning a CDMA version in 2004.

Buddy Brannan writes:
> From: Buddy Brannan <davros@ycardz.com>
> 
> Oh, I know, but if this phone's for the European market, I betcha a
> cold cheeseburger it's a GSM phone--means I'd have to change to a GSM
> carrier, no?  
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden 
> Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
> ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
> http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Buddy Brannan]

Ooh. You're right. I didn't read carefully. Or managed to miss that
somehow anyway. Guess I'll stay tuned!
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden 
Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

Here's another page about the Owasys phone:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3226314.stm

The TechShare page on this phone follows, but it's a very long url, so
beware ...


http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/publicwebsite/public_fernandoguirre.hcsp

Buddy Brannan writes:
> From: Buddy Brannan <davros@ycardz.com>
> 
> Ooh. You're right. I didn't read carefully. Or managed to miss that
> somehow anyway. Guess I'll stay tuned!
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden 
> Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
> ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
> http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Glenn Ervin at Home]

I found the English link, but even after that, I found nothing about a cell
phone specifically.
Glenn.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone


Ooh! Well dammit, I won't be able to have it until '05...my contract
with Verizon doesn't expire until then. (Growl)
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden
Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Darragh]

It sounds like a nice phone but I don't like the idea of a phone specificly
for visually impaired.  I like to stick with main streem products and
install adapted software to make them accessible.

There's plenty of information about it though.  Just do a search for some
related words on google.

Darragh

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

My comment to them during their presentation at TechShare was that they
should simply market it as an audio interface telephone. Never mind
blind people--the market may well be much larger than that. Until just a
few years ago, all phones were audio only. There's every reason to
believe a lot of people might like this kind of phone, whether or not
they're blind.

Darragh writes:
> From: "Darragh" <lists@digitaldarragh.com>
> 
> It sounds like a nice phone but I don't like the idea of a phone specificly
> for visually impaired.  I like to stick with main streem products and
> install adapted software to make them accessible.
> 
> There's plenty of information about it though.  Just do a search for some
> related words on google.
> 
> Darragh
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Glenn Ervin at Home]

It would sure make driving safer if all phones were equipped with voice
output.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone


My comment to them during their presentation at TechShare was that they
should simply market it as an audio interface telephone. Never mind
blind people--the market may well be much larger than that. Until just a
few years ago, all phones were audio only. There's every reason to
believe a lot of people might like this kind of phone, whether or not
they're blind.

Darragh writes:
> From: "Darragh" <lists@digitaldarragh.com>
>
> It sounds like a nice phone but I don't like the idea of a phone
specificly
> for visually impaired.  I like to stick with main streem products and
> install adapted software to make them accessible.
>
> There's plenty of information about it though.  Just do a search for some
> related words on google.
>
> Darragh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Deedra Waters]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Janina,

I remember seeing an article on this phone about two months ago. One  of my fellow freenode staffers pointed it out and said "this looks cool, I want one of those" and he can see.

- From what I gather, it's something that can benifit more then just blind people.:)


On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Janina Sajka wrote:

> OK. I thought I should wish a little here.
> 
> I saw the wireless handset I want to get in 2004 while attending
> TechShare in the U.K. this past November. You can read about this phone
> at:
> 
> http://www.owasys.com
> 
> *	It is supposed to be available in Spain now, and in the U.K.
> *	soon.
> 
> *	It is supposed to be available in the U.S. sometime in 2004. I
> *	may wait.
> 
> This phone has no screen. It's 100% designed to be used without sight.
> And, it runs our favorite OS.
> 
> 
> 

- -- 
Gentoo Linux: Gentoo infrastructure, dmwaters@gentoo.org,
http://www.gentoo.org

Freenode staff member: dmwaters@freenode.net , http://www.freenode.net

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Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

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=U1oY
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

Thanks, Deedra. I'm really glad to see this post from you. I just wrote
the same think in response to Darragh, and then I read your message.

Needless to say, I agree fully with your friend. I think they do
themselves a disservice by marketing too narrowly.



Deedra Waters writes:
> From: Deedra Waters <dmwaters@gentoo.org>
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi Janina,
> 
> I remember seeing an article on this phone about two months ago. One  of my fellow freenode staffers pointed it out and said "this looks cool, I want one of those" and he can see.
> 
> - From what I gather, it's something that can benifit more then just blind people.:)
> 
> 
> On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > OK. I thought I should wish a little here.
> > 
> > I saw the wireless handset I want to get in 2004 while attending
> > TechShare in the U.K. this past November. You can read about this phone
> > at:
> > 
> > http://www.owasys.com
> > 
> > *	It is supposed to be available in Spain now, and in the U.K.
> > *	soon.
> > 
> > *	It is supposed to be available in the U.S. sometime in 2004. I
> > *	may wait.
> > 
> > This phone has no screen. It's 100% designed to be used without sight.
> > And, it runs our favorite OS.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> - -- 
> Gentoo Linux: Gentoo infrastructure, dmwaters@gentoo.org,
> http://www.gentoo.org
> 
> Freenode staff member: dmwaters@freenode.net , http://www.freenode.net
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQE/6zI0U5AGPOTGNc8RAr2xAJ9HcXuy/5MpLEQgmA8rFhxGOvO/kQCeN4CO
> Z0Sn47jTrI1PahH1JghjQE0=
> =U1oY
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

I only managed to find one page on the site about the phone, and that was
in the news section.

http://www.owasys.com/accesible_en/new14.html

If there's an actual product page, I'd like to know where it is.

As much as I like the idea of a phone that's designed for our needs and
that runs Linux, I have to say that I have the same reservations as I do
about any custom solutions rather than adaptations of regular devices.
How long will it take this phone to become out of date?  How speedy will
development of the next model be?  How long will it continue to be
developed, given the relatively small returns from a niche market?  An
accessible solution from a major phone manufacturer is bound to have a
longer lifespan and be kept up to date more, due to the fact that it's only
one of an entire product line which can and is being used by everyone (well
most).  We saw the same with sharp products. They made excellent talking
clocks, calculators, even talking video remotes.  But each product went off
the market.  Why?  Because, I'm guessing, of the relatively small returns
that came from the R&D money required to develop them.  If one of, say,
Nokia's phones was shipped with accessibility features built in, then it
would be snapped up by not only us, but the average Joe on the street, as
phones are.  The average user would just be buying it because it was the
next new phone, but their doing so would (1) help to keep the price down
(by dividing the extra development costs among more buyers), and (2) ensure
its continued success due to more people buying it.

Disclaimer: I am not an economist, nor do I pretend to have studied any
form of economics.  It just seems like common sense to me.

Geoff.

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Sean McMahon]

We need some sort of marketing campagne for screenless phones that shows all
those people driving and having trouble reading thecaller id when their
whatever rings. Just my cent worth
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geoff Shang" <gshang@pacific.net.au>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone


> Hi:
>
> I only managed to find one page on the site about the phone, and that was
> in the news section.
>
> http://www.owasys.com/accesible_en/new14.html
>
> If there's an actual product page, I'd like to know where it is.
>
> As much as I like the idea of a phone that's designed for our needs and
> that runs Linux, I have to say that I have the same reservations as I do
> about any custom solutions rather than adaptations of regular devices.
> How long will it take this phone to become out of date?  How speedy will
> development of the next model be?  How long will it continue to be
> developed, given the relatively small returns from a niche market?  An
> accessible solution from a major phone manufacturer is bound to have a
> longer lifespan and be kept up to date more, due to the fact that it's
only
> one of an entire product line which can and is being used by everyone
(well
> most).  We saw the same with sharp products. They made excellent talking
> clocks, calculators, even talking video remotes.  But each product went
off
> the market.  Why?  Because, I'm guessing, of the relatively small returns
> that came from the R&D money required to develop them.  If one of, say,
> Nokia's phones was shipped with accessibility features built in, then it
> would be snapped up by not only us, but the average Joe on the street, as
> phones are.  The average user would just be buying it because it was the
> next new phone, but their doing so would (1) help to keep the price down
> (by dividing the extra development costs among more buyers), and (2)
ensure
> its continued success due to more people buying it.
>
> Disclaimer: I am not an economist, nor do I pretend to have studied any
> form of economics.  It just seems like common sense to me.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Steve Holmes]

I found the bit on the ow Owasys model to be quite interesting and
promising - especially the fact linux is being used as the OS and they
appear to be incourage public development.

Hey, I cannot find anything anywhere on the Audiovox 9900 phone that
would supposedly be available this month.  I looked on
www.audiovox.com and their idiot search tool kept saying "no such
model."  Is it really out there yet or is it vaporware?

On Thu, Dec 25, 2003 at 11:05:00AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> OK. I thought I should wish a little here.
> 
> I saw the wireless handset I want to get in 2004 while attending
> TechShare in the U.K. this past November. You can read about this phone
> at:
> 
> http://www.owasys.com
> 
> *	It is supposed to be available in Spain now, and in the U.K.
> *	soon.
> 
> *	It is supposed to be available in the U.S. sometime in 2004. I
> *	may wait.
> 
> This phone has no screen. It's 100% designed to be used without sight.
> And, it runs our favorite OS.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net		
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

-- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

I could tell you things, but I can't because of a piece of paper we
signed this past year.

What I can tell you is that we looked hard for this unit around
Washington, DC and on the net the other week and didn't find it. I
expect we'll look again in early January.

So, can you read between the lines?

Steve Holmes writes:
> From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
> 
> I found the bit on the ow Owasys model to be quite interesting and
> promising - especially the fact linux is being used as the OS and they
> appear to be incourage public development.
> 
> Hey, I cannot find anything anywhere on the Audiovox 9900 phone that
> would supposedly be available this month.  I looked on
> www.audiovox.com and their idiot search tool kept saying "no such
> model."  Is it really out there yet or is it vaporware?
> 
> On Thu, Dec 25, 2003 at 11:05:00AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > OK. I thought I should wish a little here.
> > 
> > I saw the wireless handset I want to get in 2004 while attending
> > TechShare in the U.K. this past November. You can read about this phone
> > at:
> > 
> > http://www.owasys.com
> > 
> > *	It is supposed to be available in Spain now, and in the U.K.
> > *	soon.
> > 
> > *	It is supposed to be available in the U.S. sometime in 2004. I
> > *	may wait.
> > 
> > This phone has no screen. It's 100% designed to be used without sight.
> > And, it runs our favorite OS.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net		
> > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Steve Holmes]

Yea, it ain't available yet.  I asked Verizon about it a week or so
ago and the latest model they had ever heard of was the 8900 & 8600; I
saw an 8600 and I found the buttons alone to be deplorable! let alone
not being accessible.  I go to tthe audiovox website just yesterday
and the model doesn't exist on their search engine.  I just hate non
disclosure agreements - they are anti competetive.  I mean you signed
an aggreement not to reveal any more about it but yet the damn thing
isn't even out there.  You couldn't even find it with your sources
and/or connections.

It's just a shame people, that is, companies, not you, have to be so
secretive about their upcoming innovations when they should be the
norm for all products.  I don't know if you saw any prototypes or what
but I hope they were good.  Some of us get to be a bit synical about
things like this.  How many times over the years have I heard about
some upcoming trick or gadget for accessibility and have it never come
to pass? I lost count so until I can see the real thing or at least
some documentation from the provider it is really being worked on and
some reasonable expected dates, I tend to call it vaporware.  It may
really be impatience on my part but I'm not sure what else to feel or do.

On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 08:55:09AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> I could tell you things, but I can't because of a piece of paper we
> signed this past year.
> 
> What I can tell you is that we looked hard for this unit around
> Washington, DC and on the net the other week and didn't find it. I
> expect we'll look again in early January.
> 
> So, can you read between the lines?

-- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

Well, just to set the record straight, the nondisclosures had to do with
discussions that eventually produced a settlement with Audiovox. Had
they not produced a settlement, we would probably be in a formal hearing
before the FCC. That is how it started. Ms. Bonnie O'Day filed a formal
complaint against Audiovox and a second formal complaint against Verizon
Wireless back in February. I (and others) at AFB provided technical
support to the lawyers who were providing their services pro bono.
Audiovox hired some of the most expensive telecommunications lawyers in
Washington, DC to fight us.

The fact that we settled should suggest that things changed over the
course of the year. And, you can probably guess that we didn't change
the user requirements.

It's probably OK for me to say that the settlement wasn't about any
particular phone, but rather about the kinds of things that are needed
to support customers who are blind or visually impaired including
products themselves and the various kinds of support services that go
along with the products.


Steve Holmes writes:
> From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
> 
> Yea, it ain't available yet.  I asked Verizon about it a week or so
> ago and the latest model they had ever heard of was the 8900 & 8600; I
> saw an 8600 and I found the buttons alone to be deplorable! let alone
> not being accessible.  I go to tthe audiovox website just yesterday
> and the model doesn't exist on their search engine.  I just hate non
> disclosure agreements - they are anti competetive.  I mean you signed
> an aggreement not to reveal any more about it but yet the damn thing
> isn't even out there.  You couldn't even find it with your sources
> and/or connections.
> 
> It's just a shame people, that is, companies, not you, have to be so
> secretive about their upcoming innovations when they should be the
> norm for all products.  I don't know if you saw any prototypes or what
> but I hope they were good.  Some of us get to be a bit synical about
> things like this.  How many times over the years have I heard about
> some upcoming trick or gadget for accessibility and have it never come
> to pass? I lost count so until I can see the real thing or at least
> some documentation from the provider it is really being worked on and
> some reasonable expected dates, I tend to call it vaporware.  It may
> really be impatience on my part but I'm not sure what else to feel or do.
> 
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 08:55:09AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > I could tell you things, but I can't because of a piece of paper we
> > signed this past year.
> > 
> > What I can tell you is that we looked hard for this unit around
> > Washington, DC and on the net the other week and didn't find it. I
> > expect we'll look again in early January.
> > 
> > So, can you read between the lines?
> 
> -- 
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Steve Holmes]

Well, that sounds like a better reason for non disclosure,
particularly if legal settlements are involved.  I'm guessing, is this
where the aleged CDM 9900 series phone is comming from?  I've heard
several people mention this model even though Audiovox's site knows
nothing about it:).

Yes, I do appreciate you all's efforts with these accessibility
issues.  I'm thinking about a 255 complaint anyway though the
suggestions imply I should do a bit of ground work before filing such
such as attempting to resolve the issues and provide some evidents.
Frankly, from what I hear with various conversations with phone makers
is "we ain't got such a thing."  In as many words.  Maybe that
sufficient enough to provide a complaint.  I'm just thinking if these
new innovations come out soon enough, I'd back off and not appear to
be a jerk about it but then again, like you have been saying, we need
to keep the heat on til they truely deliver.

On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 02:00:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Well, just to set the record straight, the nondisclosures had to do with
> discussions that eventually produced a settlement with Audiovox. Had
> they not produced a settlement, we would probably be in a formal hearing
> before the FCC. That is how it started. Ms. Bonnie O'Day filed a formal
> complaint against Audiovox and a second formal complaint against Verizon
> Wireless back in February. I (and others) at AFB provided technical
> support to the lawyers who were providing their services pro bono.
> Audiovox hired some of the most expensive telecommunications lawyers in
> Washington, DC to fight us.
> 
> The fact that we settled should suggest that things changed over the
> course of the year. And, you can probably guess that we didn't change
> the user requirements.
> 
> It's probably OK for me to say that the settlement wasn't about any
> particular phone, but rather about the kinds of things that are needed
> to support customers who are blind or visually impaired including
> products themselves and the various kinds of support services that go
> along with the products.

-- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://ld.net/?holmesgrown

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

I have no particular knowledge as to when and where this 9900 will
appear. It's not vaporware, though.

Steve Holmes writes:
> From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
> 
> Well, that sounds like a better reason for non disclosure,
> particularly if legal settlements are involved.  I'm guessing, is this
> where the aleged CDM 9900 series phone is comming from?  I've heard
> several people mention this model even though Audiovox's site knows
> nothing about it:).
> 
> Yes, I do appreciate you all's efforts with these accessibility
> issues.  I'm thinking about a 255 complaint anyway though the
> suggestions imply I should do a bit of ground work before filing such
> such as attempting to resolve the issues and provide some evidents.
> Frankly, from what I hear with various conversations with phone makers
> is "we ain't got such a thing."  In as many words.  Maybe that
> sufficient enough to provide a complaint.  I'm just thinking if these
> new innovations come out soon enough, I'd back off and not appear to
> be a jerk about it but then again, like you have been saying, we need
> to keep the heat on til they truely deliver.
> 
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 02:00:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Well, just to set the record straight, the nondisclosures had to do with
> > discussions that eventually produced a settlement with Audiovox. Had
> > they not produced a settlement, we would probably be in a formal hearing
> > before the FCC. That is how it started. Ms. Bonnie O'Day filed a formal
> > complaint against Audiovox and a second formal complaint against Verizon
> > Wireless back in February. I (and others) at AFB provided technical
> > support to the lawyers who were providing their services pro bono.
> > Audiovox hired some of the most expensive telecommunications lawyers in
> > Washington, DC to fight us.
> > 
> > The fact that we settled should suggest that things changed over the
> > course of the year. And, you can probably guess that we didn't change
> > the user requirements.
> > 
> > It's probably OK for me to say that the settlement wasn't about any
> > particular phone, but rather about the kinds of things that are needed
> > to support customers who are blind or visually impaired including
> > products themselves and the various kinds of support services that go
> > along with the products.
> 
> -- 
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: 2004: My Next Wireless Phone

[Janina Sajka]

Well, just to set the record straight, the nondisclosures had to do with
discussions that eventually produced a settlement with Audiovox. Had
they not produced a settlement, we would probably be in a formal hearing
before the FCC. That is how it started. Ms. Bonnie O'Day filed a formal
complaint against Audiovox and a second formal complaint against Verizon
Wireless back in February. I (and others) at AFB provided technical
support to the lawyers who were providing their services pro bono.
Audiovox hired some of the most expensive telecommunications lawyers in
Washington, DC to fight us.

The fact that we settled with Audiovox should suggest that things changed over
the course of the year. And, you can probably guess that we didn't change
the user requirements.

It's probably OK for me to say that the settlement wasn't about any
particular phone, but rather about the kinds of things that are needed
to support customers who are blind or visually impaired including
products themselves and the various kinds of support services that go
along with the products.


Steve Holmes writes:
> From: Steve Holmes <steve@holmesgrown.com>
> 
> Yea, it ain't available yet.  I asked Verizon about it a week or so
> ago and the latest model they had ever heard of was the 8900 & 8600; I
> saw an 8600 and I found the buttons alone to be deplorable! let alone
> not being accessible.  I go to tthe audiovox website just yesterday
> and the model doesn't exist on their search engine.  I just hate non
> disclosure agreements - they are anti competetive.  I mean you signed
> an aggreement not to reveal any more about it but yet the damn thing
> isn't even out there.  You couldn't even find it with your sources
> and/or connections.
> 
> It's just a shame people, that is, companies, not you, have to be so
> secretive about their upcoming innovations when they should be the
> norm for all products.  I don't know if you saw any prototypes or what
> but I hope they were good.  Some of us get to be a bit synical about
> things like this.  How many times over the years have I heard about
> some upcoming trick or gadget for accessibility and have it never come
> to pass? I lost count so until I can see the real thing or at least
> some documentation from the provider it is really being worked on and
> some reasonable expected dates, I tend to call it vaporware.  It may
> really be impatience on my part but I'm not sure what else to feel or do.
> 
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 08:55:09AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > I could tell you things, but I can't because of a piece of paper we
> > signed this past year.
> > 
> > What I can tell you is that we looked hard for this unit around
> > Washington, DC and on the net the other week and didn't find it. I
> > expect we'll look again in early January.
> > 
> > So, can you read between the lines?
> 
> -- 
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://ld.net/?holmesgrown
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org