(no subject)

[Anthony Creapeau]

How do I Migrate from windows to Linux?		I'm using Windows now but I
really want to move to a blind accessible version of Linux. I've downloaded
Knoppix_speakup and oralux but can not get knoppix to talk and do not want
to learn the complicated commands of oralux. How can I get knoppix to talk
and what version of ubuntu or debian will talk right from the start? I'd
really like to move to Linux but I've had no luck so far. I'd really
appreciate feedback.

Anthony Creapeau
Management Information Systems
Milwaukee School of Engineering
voice mail: (414 418-1599
email: creapeaa@msoe.edu

Re: your mail

[Luke Yelavich]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 05:44:16PM EST, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> How do I Migrate from windows to Linux? I'm using Windows now but I 
> really want to move to a blind accessible version of Linux. 

Have you got a hardware speech synthesizer that can be connected via a 
serial port to your computer?

> I've downloaded Knoppix_speakup and oralux but can not get knoppix to 
> talk and do not want to learn the complicated commands of oralux.

WHat have you tried to do to get it going?

> How can I get knoppix to talk and what version of ubuntu or debian 
> will talk right from the start?

It depends on whether you have a hardware synthesizer, and whether you 
are willing to learn and possibly get help in getting things set up.

If you have a hardware speech synthesizer, you might be best off 
starting with Debian or Fedora, as there are CDs that can be downloaded 
that get you going with speech straight away. Ubuntu unfortunately 
doesn't offer a text installation that is spoken yet, but can be 
installed via GUI using the GNOME accessibility tools, although even 
that is still a bit fiddly.

> I'd really like to move to Linux but I've had no luck so far. I'd 
> really appreciate feedback.

The more info you give us, the better we can help you. So if you have 
any more info to add, as well as what has been asked previously in this 
email, that would be a great help to us.
- -- 
Luke Yelavich
GPG key: 0xD06320CE 
	 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com
Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFmgm+jVefwtBjIM4RAgnLAKDuv5C35TIDD+7apLiPvlwBHj5k/ACglgKP
Cv01lA7wATBn0U2kYG1rUeY=
=cspj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

RE: your mail

[Anthony Creapeau]

Yes, I have a dectalk express.


Anthony Creapeau
Voice mail: (414) 418-1599
email: creapeaa@msoe.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Luke Yelavich
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 1:29 AM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: your mail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 05:44:16PM EST, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> How do I Migrate from windows to Linux? I'm using Windows now but I
> really want to move to a blind accessible version of Linux.

Have you got a hardware speech synthesizer that can be connected via a
serial port to your computer?

> I've downloaded Knoppix_speakup and oralux but can not get knoppix to
> talk and do not want to learn the complicated commands of oralux.

WHat have you tried to do to get it going?

> How can I get knoppix to talk and what version of ubuntu or debian
> will talk right from the start?

It depends on whether you have a hardware synthesizer, and whether you are
willing to learn and possibly get help in getting things set up.

If you have a hardware speech synthesizer, you might be best off starting
with Debian or Fedora, as there are CDs that can be downloaded that get you
going with speech straight away. Ubuntu unfortunately doesn't offer a text
installation that is spoken yet, but can be installed via GUI using the
GNOME accessibility tools, although even that is still a bit fiddly.

> I'd really like to move to Linux but I've had no luck so far. I'd
> really appreciate feedback.

The more info you give us, the better we can help you. So if you have any
more info to add, as well as what has been asked previously in this email,
that would be a great help to us.
- --
Luke Yelavich
GPG key: 0xD06320CE
	 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com
Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFmgm+jVefwtBjIM4RAgnLAKDuv5C35TIDD+7apLiPvlwBHj5k/ACglgKP
Cv01lA7wATBn0U2kYG1rUeY=
=cspj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: your mail

[Luke Yelavich]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 04:31:38PM EST, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> Yes, I have a dectalk express.

And what did you do to try and get Knoppix going?
- -- 
Luke Yelavich
GPG key: 0xD06320CE 
	 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com
Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFm0MjjVefwtBjIM4RAtDrAKDBAeL6N9ITeTuBQyh6qa+zPhqoAwCgxcwL
KB4dNewa3xPTfh3XK01DCFk=
=oY/z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

RE: your mail

[Anthony Creapeau]

At the boot prompt I typed "knoppix speakup_synth=dectlk" , then I tried the
knoppix speakup_synth=spkout and I also just let the boot timer run out and
let knoppix boot using the defaults (no arguments). None of my attempts
worked.


Anthony Creapeau
Voice mail: (414) 418-1599
email: creapeaa@msoe.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Luke Yelavich
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:46 PM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: your mail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 04:31:38PM EST, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> Yes, I have a dectalk express.

And what did you do to try and get Knoppix going?
- --
Luke Yelavich
GPG key: 0xD06320CE
	 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com
Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFm0MjjVefwtBjIM4RAtDrAKDBAeL6N9ITeTuBQyh6qa+zPhqoAwCgxcwL
KB4dNewa3xPTfh3XK01DCFk=
=oY/z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: your mail

[Luke Yelavich]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:03:10PM EST, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> At the boot prompt I typed "knoppix speakup_synth=dectlk" , then I tried the
> knoppix speakup_synth=spkout and I also just let the boot timer run out and
> let knoppix boot using the defaults (no arguments). None of my attempts
> worked.

Do you happen to know whether the serial port being used is on the 
actual computer motherboard, and that is using standard port and irq 
settings?
- -- 
Luke Yelavich
GPG key: 0xD06320CE 
	 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com
Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFm0prjVefwtBjIM4RAnklAJ9QjCKuE8r72EEDqMGTXkz8hNebAgCfdbOe
ZbRa21pyT9l1Livhmh0NAQ4=
=ooei
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

RE: your mail

[Anthony Creapeau]

I'm trying to get this running on a ThinkPad X60s which is currently resting
in a docking station on which the serial port is located. I've checked the
serial port settings and they are set to the standard defaults. 9600 bits
per second, 8 data bits, no parity, stop bits 1 and no flow control. The IRQ
is 04.



Anthony Creapeau
Voice mail: (414) 418-1599
email: creapeaa@msoe.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Luke Yelavich
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 12:17 AM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: your mail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:03:10PM EST, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> At the boot prompt I typed "knoppix speakup_synth=dectlk" , then I
> tried the knoppix speakup_synth=spkout and I also just let the boot
> timer run out and let knoppix boot using the defaults (no arguments).
> None of my attempts worked.

Do you happen to know whether the serial port being used is on the actual
computer motherboard, and that is using standard port and irq settings?
- --
Luke Yelavich
GPG key: 0xD06320CE
	 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com
Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFFm0prjVefwtBjIM4RAnklAJ9QjCKuE8r72EEDqMGTXkz8hNebAgCfdbOe
ZbRa21pyT9l1Livhmh0NAQ4=
=ooei
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: your mail

[Michael Whapples]

I am unsure that speakup works with serial synths under such a
configuration, although I am not completely sure, may be someone who
knows for sure can say. I think this is due to speakup using its own
serial driver rather than the standard Linux driver. If there is
actually a serial port on the machine then you would do better
(possibly) using that, otherwise read on about the alternatives.

I personally would say for a laptop (particularly if you want it to be
mobile) would be to use software synthesis, ubuntu uses this by default
for orca, although any distro would allow you to use software speech
with speakup (although it might need setting up). This means that
distros with accessible install CDs/live-CDs are more limited. As I said
ubuntu is accessible with software speech (using Orca in gnome a GUI),
and I am lead to believe that GRML also has everything on the CD for
software speech (using speakup, text console). 

The question of text console or gnome (GUI) for someone new to linux
with windows experience is one you may wish to consider. Although Orca
may be still in fairly early stages, I feel it is worth considering, as
gnome will have similarities to windows for usage (some hotkeys may
differ from the windows equivilent, but concepts are very close), and
you will be using some software which is more main stream so more
compatable (firefox for a web browser, openoffice for office
applications, etc). Text consoles may be more well developed (as they
have been accessible for a long time), interaction may be quicker when
you are used to it, and suited better to the linear output of speech,
but you will find applications are less main stream, so compatability
may be less (web browser is lynx, elinks or links to name a few, but
sometimes websites can be awkward and want some specific things in web
browsers, and so not work correctly, so either you may find you use
different web browsers on different web sites, or in some very rare
cases it might not work at all (I have had that)).

If you really want to use the hardware synth, but have no serial port
which works with speakup, then you can try one of the screen readers
that run as a normal application so use standard linux drivers. For text
consoles there is YASR and screader. There is also emacspeak, but this
uses the emacs environment on linux and suspect this is what you were
referring to when you mentioned the commands for oralux. Also if you
install emacspeak, Orca can use emacspeak servers for output, so you
could use (possibly) your hardware synth with Orca.

Hope this helps,
Michael Whapples

On Wed, 2007-01-03 at 00:31 -0600, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> I'm trying to get this running on a ThinkPad X60s which is currently resting
> in a docking station on which the serial port is located. I've checked the
> serial port settings and they are set to the standard defaults. 9600 bits
> per second, 8 data bits, no parity, stop bits 1 and no flow control. The IRQ
> is 04.
> 
> 
> 
> Anthony Creapeau
> Voice mail: (414) 418-1599
> email: creapeaa@msoe.edu
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Luke Yelavich
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 12:17 AM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: your mail
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Wed, Jan 03, 2007 at 05:03:10PM EST, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> > At the boot prompt I typed "knoppix speakup_synth=dectlk" , then I
> > tried the knoppix speakup_synth=spkout and I also just let the boot
> > timer run out and let knoppix boot using the defaults (no arguments).
> > None of my attempts worked.
> 
> Do you happen to know whether the serial port being used is on the actual
> computer motherboard, and that is using standard port and irq settings?
> - --
> Luke Yelavich
> GPG key: 0xD06320CE
> 	 (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt)
> Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com
> Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFFm0prjVefwtBjIM4RAnklAJ9QjCKuE8r72EEDqMGTXkz8hNebAgCfdbOe
> ZbRa21pyT9l1Livhmh0NAQ4=
> =ooei
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Linux from windows

[Michael Whapples]

I think ubuntu would be a good way to go if you are used to windows at
the moment. The current release of ubuntu has everything you would need
for an independent accessible install. The latest release 6.10 edgy EFT
I mean, not the testing release 7.4 Feisty. There's information about
Orca the gnome screen reader (which ubuntu uses by default) at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca and there is information about accessible
installation as well. Note one problem which you may have is that your
sound card may not automatically be unmuted by the ubuntu CD (it might
be true for other distro CDs such as knoppix). Unless you have some
other way of accessing your computer (e.g. hardware synthesiser, braille
display, possibly serial terminal) you will need sighted assistance to
unmute the sound card.

You can normally have both linux and windows installed on the same
system, so you will be able to fall back to windows if there are tasks
that are too much at first. Ubuntu can sort out the disk for you so that
windows and linux work together, other distros may have there own tools,
but I don't know how automatic all of them are. If you are concerned
about it messing up your system there are ways to make the CD versions
of linux store settings on something like a usb drive, then your hard
disk will not be altered, I think there is information about this for
ubuntu in the documentation for it.

The above is assuming you are intending to use software speech
synthesis, if different then the difficulties you are having with
knoppix would be different, so different solutions are needed.

Hope this was of use,
Michael Whapples

On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 00:44 -0600, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> How do I Migrate from windows to Linux?       I'm using Windows now but I
> really want to move to a blind accessible version of Linux. I've downloaded
> Knoppix_speakup and oralux but can not get knoppix to talk and do not want
> to learn the complicated commands of oralux. How can I get knoppix to talk
> and what version of ubuntu or debian will talk right from the start? I'd
> really like to move to Linux but I've had no luck so far. I'd really
> appreciate feedback.
> 
> Anthony Creapeau
> Management Information Systems
> Milwaukee School of Engineering
> voice mail: (414 418-1599
> email: creapeaa@msoe.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Linux from windows

[Glenn Ervin]

Anthony,
Go to the site:
http://www.ubuntu.com/
Download the desktop version, 9.10, even if you have a laptop, and burn the 
ISO image to a CD.
Then boot to this CD, and as soon as the disk stops spinning, do the 
following:
Press enter, it is on English
Press F5 for accessibility options
Press 3 for screenreader
Press enter one or two more times, and it should come up talking.
You will be running off of a CD, and you can explore Ubuntu.
HTH.
Glenn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples@aim.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Linux from windows


I think ubuntu would be a good way to go if you are used to windows at
the moment. The current release of ubuntu has everything you would need
for an independent accessible install. The latest release 6.10 edgy EFT
I mean, not the testing release 7.4 Feisty. There's information about
Orca the gnome screen reader (which ubuntu uses by default) at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca and there is information about accessible
installation as well. Note one problem which you may have is that your
sound card may not automatically be unmuted by the ubuntu CD (it might
be true for other distro CDs such as knoppix). Unless you have some
other way of accessing your computer (e.g. hardware synthesiser, braille
display, possibly serial terminal) you will need sighted assistance to
unmute the sound card.

You can normally have both linux and windows installed on the same
system, so you will be able to fall back to windows if there are tasks
that are too much at first. Ubuntu can sort out the disk for you so that
windows and linux work together, other distros may have there own tools,
but I don't know how automatic all of them are. If you are concerned
about it messing up your system there are ways to make the CD versions
of linux store settings on something like a usb drive, then your hard
disk will not be altered, I think there is information about this for
ubuntu in the documentation for it.

The above is assuming you are intending to use software speech
synthesis, if different then the difficulties you are having with
knoppix would be different, so different solutions are needed.

Hope this was of use,
Michael Whapples

On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 00:44 -0600, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> How do I Migrate from windows to Linux?       I'm using Windows now but I
> really want to move to a blind accessible version of Linux. I've 
> downloaded
> Knoppix_speakup and oralux but can not get knoppix to talk and do not want
> to learn the complicated commands of oralux. How can I get knoppix to talk
> and what version of ubuntu or debian will talk right from the start? I'd
> really like to move to Linux but I've had no luck so far. I'd really
> appreciate feedback.
>
> Anthony Creapeau
> Management Information Systems
> Milwaukee School of Engineering
> voice mail: (414 418-1599
> email: creapeaa@msoe.edu
>
>
>
>
>




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Linux from windows

[Glenn Ervin]

oops,
I was at the wrong end of my inbox.
This obviously is an old message.
Glenn

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn Ervin" <GlennErvin@cableone.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: Linux from windows


Anthony,
Go to the site:
http://www.ubuntu.com/
Download the desktop version, 9.10, even if you have a laptop, and burn the
ISO image to a CD.
Then boot to this CD, and as soon as the disk stops spinning, do the
following:
Press enter, it is on English
Press F5 for accessibility options
Press 3 for screenreader
Press enter one or two more times, and it should come up talking.
You will be running off of a CD, and you can explore Ubuntu.
HTH.
Glenn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Whapples" <mwhapples@aim.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Linux from windows


I think ubuntu would be a good way to go if you are used to windows at
the moment. The current release of ubuntu has everything you would need
for an independent accessible install. The latest release 6.10 edgy EFT
I mean, not the testing release 7.4 Feisty. There's information about
Orca the gnome screen reader (which ubuntu uses by default) at
http://live.gnome.org/Orca and there is information about accessible
installation as well. Note one problem which you may have is that your
sound card may not automatically be unmuted by the ubuntu CD (it might
be true for other distro CDs such as knoppix). Unless you have some
other way of accessing your computer (e.g. hardware synthesiser, braille
display, possibly serial terminal) you will need sighted assistance to
unmute the sound card.

You can normally have both linux and windows installed on the same
system, so you will be able to fall back to windows if there are tasks
that are too much at first. Ubuntu can sort out the disk for you so that
windows and linux work together, other distros may have there own tools,
but I don't know how automatic all of them are. If you are concerned
about it messing up your system there are ways to make the CD versions
of linux store settings on something like a usb drive, then your hard
disk will not be altered, I think there is information about this for
ubuntu in the documentation for it.

The above is assuming you are intending to use software speech
synthesis, if different then the difficulties you are having with
knoppix would be different, so different solutions are needed.

Hope this was of use,
Michael Whapples

On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 00:44 -0600, Anthony Creapeau wrote:
> How do I Migrate from windows to Linux?       I'm using Windows now but I
> really want to move to a blind accessible version of Linux. I've
> downloaded
> Knoppix_speakup and oralux but can not get knoppix to talk and do not want
> to learn the complicated commands of oralux. How can I get knoppix to talk
> and what version of ubuntu or debian will talk right from the start? I'd
> really like to move to Linux but I've had no luck so far. I'd really
> appreciate feedback.
>
> Anthony Creapeau
> Management Information Systems
> Milwaukee School of Engineering
> voice mail: (414 418-1599
> email: creapeaa@msoe.edu
>
>
>
>
>




_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re:

[Chris Norman]

That's a really difficult question to answer to be fair LOL.

I went from windows to using FC4 via SSH, then i got software speech working 
on FC4, now I use primarily Ubuntu, and FC6 when I can get it working. But 
Ubuntu is by fair the easiest.

If you need help with anything privately, although I'm not the best person 
to ask, I'm more than happy to help you out as much as I can (over MSN if 
it's easier).

Cheers, and HTH a bit,

Chris Norman
<!-- cnorman@rnibncw.ac.uk -->
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Creapeau" <creapeaa@msoe.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 6:44 AM


> How do I Migrate from windows to Linux? I'm using Windows now but I
> really want to move to a blind accessible version of Linux. I've 
> downloaded
> Knoppix_speakup and oralux but can not get knoppix to talk and do not want
> to learn the complicated commands of oralux. How can I get knoppix to talk
> and what version of ubuntu or debian will talk right from the start? I'd
> really like to move to Linux but I've had no luck so far. I'd really
> appreciate feedback.
>
> Anthony Creapeau
> Management Information Systems
> Milwaukee School of Engineering
> voice mail: (414 418-1599
> email: creapeaa@msoe.edu
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

(no subject)

[acollins]

Hi Tony.  To a certain extent, you are right.  But while being able to
read and write properly, and have good gramar is important, I would
argue that the misperceptions, and misunderstandings about blindness
are the larger problem.  

Most sighted folks just don't have a clue about what is possible for a
blind person, and because they can't conceive of how a blind person
functions through out his daily life, they aren't willing to give a
blind person a chance.  Saddly, I've experienced enough of this kind of
behavior to know that what I say is true.  

A successful blind person always has to try a bit harder, and make a
better impression than his sighted counterparts.  I'm not crying in my
beer, just expressing the facts.  Blind folks who allow themselves to
feel sorry for themselves, just won't cut it, and there are a lot of
them out there.  Saddly, like thesong says, "That's just the way it is."

Gene

Re:

[Tony Baechler]

I agree.  John on this list has his own story of how he got hired by the 
math department of the University of Wisconsin.  However, it makes a lot 
better case if the blind person can read and write.  Let's take an average 
sighted person.  I suppose there are exceptions nowadays, but I can't 
imagine an employer hiring that average sighted person if they don't have 
literacy.  For one thing, how would they fill out the job application?  The 
blind person's solution would either be a sighted reader or a scanner, but I 
would guess that most employers would find it rather strange if a sighted 
person brought their reader with them and explained that they can't read 
print.  I do agree with you completely that the blind person needs to try 
harder and has more to overcome, but I still think that literacy has a lot 
to do with it, regardless of being blind.  Nowadays, most jobs require at 
least a college degree and I don't see how a sighted person would get one if 
they can't read.  Granted, reading Braille isn't the same as reading print, 
but at least the blind person can show the ability to take notes, phone 
messages, etc.  In the computer industry, I've heard that it's a lot easier 
to do programming with a Braille display, but I don't have one and I'm not a 
programmer.

On 4/9/2013 11:18 AM, acollins@icsmail.net wrote:
> Hi Tony.  To a certain extent, you are right.  But while being able to
> read and write properly, and have good gramar is important, I would
> argue that the misperceptions, and misunderstandings about blindness
> are the larger problem.
>
> Most sighted folks just don't have a clue about what is possible for a
> blind person, and because they can't conceive of how a blind person
> functions through out his daily life, they aren't willing to give a
> blind person a chance.  Saddly, I've experienced enough of this kind of
> behavior to know that what I say is true.
>
> A successful blind person always has to try a bit harder, and make a
> better impression than his sighted counterparts.  I'm not crying in my
> beer, just expressing the facts.  Blind folks who allow themselves to
> feel sorry for themselves, just won't cut it, and there are a lot of
> them out there.  Saddly, like thesong says, "That's just the way it is."

Re:

[John G. Heim]

Oh, yeah, I believe you are talking about the time I went to a job 
interview and I already had like 20 years of experience in systems 
administration and programming. All this was on my resume, of course, 
but when the woman who was going to interview me saw that I am blind, 
she flatly refused to interview me at first. She wouldn't believe a 
blind person can use a computer. I had to convince her that the stuff on 
my resume was real. She went ahead with the interview but she clearly 
didn't believe a word I was saying. I sure wish I had had the presence 
of mind to let her send me away. Then I could have sued her dumb a**.

I don't think there should be any question that prejudice  is a far 
bigger factor than anything blind people bring upon themselves. I mean, 
I look back at my co-workers over the years and there is no way they are 
any better than many of the unemployed blind technologists I know.

Here's the deal... Blind people never get to skate by. Blind people 
never have things just handed to them. Blind people can't just show up 
for work every day, put in their 8 hours, go home, and expect to keep 
doing that for 20 or 30 years. You have to fight for every new 
assignment, every promotion, every raise you get.

You might be thinking, "Well, everyone has to do that." Yeah, sort of. 
But the difference in degree is so great that it's astonishing. Keep 
your eyes open and you will see. The vast majority of people skate by. 
They just pretty much show up for work every day. The economy takes a 
downturn and they get layed off. But eventually, they find another job. 
A blind person has to fight for everything he gets. I am well aware that 
a lot of blind people just need a good kick in the butt. But if that was 
all it took to be unemployed, the whole world's unemployment rate would 
be around 80%.

I'm not whining. None of this really applies to me. I've never been 
unemployed for a single day since I got my first job after college. I 
started each new job literally the day after I left my previous job. In 
fact, I feel  extremely lucky that I happen to be so good at making 
computers work. I didn't do anything to deserve that. I have worked very 
hard and I've been smart managing my career. But what if I wasn't good 
at computers? Where would I be? I don't know. But I do know a lot of 
sighted people who aren't particularly well motivated, not particularly 
good with computers, and who have never had a problem finding a job. I 
don't know any blind people like that. If you're blind, you have to be 
very good and very motivated or you are probably going to be unemployed.

Note that I said *probably*. I know some blind people skate by. But like 
I said, its a matter of degree and that difference is huge.

On 04/10/2013 03:20 AM, Tony Baechler wrote:
> I agree.  John on this list has his own story of how he got hired by the
> math department of the University of Wisconsin.  However, it makes a lot
> better case if the blind person can read and write.  Let's take an
> average sighted person.  I suppose there are exceptions nowadays, but I
> can't imagine an employer hiring that average sighted person if they
> don't have literacy.  For one thing, how would they fill out the job
> application?  The blind person's solution would either be a sighted
> reader or a scanner, but I would guess that most employers would find it
> rather strange if a sighted person brought their reader with them and
> explained that they can't read print.  I do agree with you completely
> that the blind person needs to try harder and has more to overcome, but
> I still think that literacy has a lot to do with it, regardless of being
> blind.  Nowadays, most jobs require at least a college degree and I
> don't see how a sighted person would get one if they can't read.
> Granted, reading Braille isn't the same as reading print, but at least
> the blind person can show the ability to take notes, phone messages,
> etc.  In the computer industry, I've heard that it's a lot easier to do
> programming with a Braille display, but I don't have one and I'm not a
> programmer.
>
> On 4/9/2013 11:18 AM, acollins@icsmail.net wrote:
>> Hi Tony.  To a certain extent, you are right.  But while being able to
>> read and write properly, and have good gramar is important, I would
>> argue that the misperceptions, and misunderstandings about blindness
>> are the larger problem.
>>
>> Most sighted folks just don't have a clue about what is possible for a
>> blind person, and because they can't conceive of how a blind person
>> functions through out his daily life, they aren't willing to give a
>> blind person a chance.  Saddly, I've experienced enough of this kind of
>> behavior to know that what I say is true.
>>
>> A successful blind person always has to try a bit harder, and make a
>> better impression than his sighted counterparts.  I'm not crying in my
>> beer, just expressing the facts.  Blind folks who allow themselves to
>> feel sorry for themselves, just won't cut it, and there are a lot of
>> them out there.  Saddly, like thesong says, "That's just the way it is."
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re:

[Tony Baechler]

Actually, I was talking about how you brought your own laptop with you with 
a server already running on it so you could prove that you knew what you 
were doing.  I don't remember the exact details, but you posted on a list 
(acb-l?) a while ago about how you got hired once they could access the 
server running on your laptop and could see that you were able to set up 
servers and knew how to make computers work.

On 4/10/2013 7:24 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>
>
> Oh, yeah, I believe you are talking about the time I went to a job interview
> and I already had like 20 years of experience in systems administration and
> programming. All this was on my resume, of course, but when the woman who
> was going to interview me saw that I am blind, she flatly refused to
> interview me at first. She wouldn't believe a blind person can use a
> computer. I had to convince her that the stuff on my resume was real. She
> went ahead with the interview but she clearly didn't believe a word I was
> saying. I sure wish I had had the presence of mind to let her send me away.
> Then I could have sued her dumb a**.

(no subject)

[Barry Hadder]

unsubscribe

Re:

[Littlefield, Tyler]

That doesn't work, at least not to this address. visit
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


On 6/12/2011 11:00 AM, Barry Hadder wrote:
> unsubscribe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>


-- 

Take care,
Ty
my website:
http://tds-solutions.net
my blog:
http://tds-solutions.net/blog
skype: st8amnd127
My programs don't have bugs; they're randomly added features!

Re:

[mosh adetoro]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii, Size: 287 bytes --]

I can't seem to put my red hat liux on our windows nt
lan. What do i do? I put in the correct ip settings
and all but it still dosn't work! 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

Re:

[Victor Tsaran]

Hi,
You certainly need to use the SAMBA server in order to achieve the
connectivity between Redhat and WIndows NT machines. To check your
connection, follow these steps:

1. Make sure your cables are OK (yes, this hapens sometimes);
2. Ping your own machine to make sure your TCP/IP softwae is working
correctly.
3. makes sure that your Linux and NT machines are on the same subnet. If
they are not, then you need to set a network route from your Linux subnet to
the NT subnet. If resolved, try
4. Ping your gateway for the NT subnet. Make sure you can also reach your
machine from NT station. Remember that sometimes packets can go one way, but
the gateway might not know which way to get them back;
5. Eventually, set up SAMBA server ( which is a bit of a task! ) and then
use nmblookup utility to see any machine on your NT subnet, like

nmblookup -A <IP address of an NT workstation>

Of course, all of these steps might change based on what type of results you
get (negative or positive). As you can see, your initial description wasn't
descriptive enough to give you a more precise help!
Regards,
Vic

----- Original Message -----
From: "mosh adetoro" <mosh_she@yahoo.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 5:28 AM
Subject: Re:


> I can't seem to put my red hat liux on our windows nt
> lan. What do i do? I put in the correct ip settings
> and all but it still dosn't work!
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup