Re: Look Out Macintosh!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Thomas Ward]

Hi. Well, I certainly feel if any operating system can remove or cut into
Microsoft's share it will be Linux, but it will take a while.

It's all about conditioning. People for years have grown use to Microsoft's
pile of junk, and it takes a while to remove previous ideas and opinions. It
also takes other companies willingness to port existing apps to Linux. Apps
such as Adobe's Photo Sweit, MS Office, and so on are conciddred Windows
flag ship applications and it depends on a willingness to switch to other
software.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1106 bytes --]

Exactly, that's social inertia!
wrote:
>
>Hi. Well, I certainly feel if any operating system can remove or cut into
>Microsoft's share it will be Linux, but it will take a while.
>
>It's all about conditioning. People for years have grown use to Microsoft's
>pile of junk, and it takes a while to remove previous ideas and opinions. It
>also takes other companies willingness to port existing apps to Linux. Apps
>such as Adobe's Photo Sweit, MS Office, and so on are conciddred Windows
>flag ship applications and it depends on a willingness to switch to other
>software.
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Gregory Nowak]

Isn't it sad that macroslop has dominated the gui os market for IBM compatibles for only 7 years or so, and people are acting as if it had been the major os for the last 200 years?
Greg


On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 01:27:29PM -0400, Thomas Ward wrote:
> Hi. Well, I certainly feel if any operating system can remove or cut into
> Microsoft's share it will be Linux, but it will take a while.
> 
> It's all about conditioning. People for years have grown use to Microsoft's
> pile of junk, and it takes a while to remove previous ideas and opinions. It
> also takes other companies willingness to port existing apps to Linux. Apps
> such as Adobe's Photo Sweit, MS Office, and so on are conciddred Windows
> flag ship applications and it depends on a willingness to switch to other
> software.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Thomas Ward]

Hi, Jason. rpm files are setup packages for Red Hat, Kaldera, Mandrake, and
several distributions. I rather like rpm as apposed to other methods, and it
is pretty much becoming a standard along many Linux distributions.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 877 bytes --]

Ah, thanks. Didn't know that, and couldn't find any documents that
mentioned it.
At 01:20 PM 9/14/02 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Hi, Jason. rpm files are setup packages for Red Hat, Kaldera, Mandrake, and
>several distributions. I rather like rpm as apposed to other methods, and it
>is pretty much becoming a standard along many Linux distributions.
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Look Out Macintosh!

[Janina Sajka]

Yesterday's Wall Street Journal contained some interesting numbers on desktop market shares. Of course, you know who's products has the lion's share.
But check out these two numbers for number two and number three:

Macintosh	3.1%
Linux		2.7%

Seems to me Mac may be number three by this time next year? Anyone wanna bet on that?

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[shaun_oliver]

I'll take that bet,
and even go so far as to suggest that linux may well push mackentosh
far enough out of the loop so as to be a real threat to microsludge.
Having said that however, it's already a real threat. especially in the
area of accessability for disabled persons.
oh well,
just my australian $0.20

On
Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:14:53PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Yesterday's Wall Street Journal contained some interesting numbers on desktop market shares. Of course, you know who's products has the lion's share.
> But check out these two numbers for number two and number three:
> 
> Macintosh	3.1%
> Linux		2.7%
> 
> Seems to me Mac may be number three by this time next year? Anyone wanna bet on that?
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2211 bytes --]

Now I can take issue with that, but I won't. Suffice it to say that Windows
will stay no. 1 because of its easy, graphical interface.
At 04:26 AM 9/14/02 +1000, you wrote:
>
>I'll take that bet,
>and even go so far as to suggest that linux may well push mackentosh
>far enough out of the loop so as to be a real threat to microsludge.
>Having said that however, it's already a real threat. especially in the
>area of accessability for disabled persons.
>oh well,
>just my australian $0.20
>
>On
>Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:14:53PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
>> Yesterday's Wall Street Journal contained some interesting numbers on
desktop market shares. Of course, you know who's products has the lion's
share.
>> But check out these two numbers for number two and number three:
>> 
>> Macintosh	3.1%
>> Linux		2.7%
>> 
>> Seems to me Mac may be number three by this time next year? Anyone wanna
bet on that?
>> 
>> -- 
>> 	
>> 				Janina Sajka, Director
>> 				Technology Research and Development
>> 				Governmental Relations Group
>> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> 
>> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>> 
>> Chair, Accessibility SIG
>> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
>> http://www.openebook.org
>> 
>>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>-- 
>Shaun Oliver
>
>
>In a world without fences
>          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
>EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>ICQ: 76958435
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[shaun_oliver]

*SNIP*
Now I can take issue with that, but I won't. Suffice it to say that
Windows
will stay no. 1 because of its easy, graphical interface.
oh give me a break. that's microsoft conditioning if ever I heard it.
My god man, microsoft ripped the gui concept off of apple.
Get out of this mind set that microsoft is easy to use, that's a fake.
it will do what it wants and no corrispondence will be entered into.
Try changing an irq if you really have to, or finding yer nics mac
address. the only reason I know how to do either one is cause I wanted
to see if I could.
believe me microsoft bitches bitterly if you try to assign a device to a
different irq than the one it wants you to use.
now, Linux, that's a different story. I've never tryed to force irqs
with linux but, I'm sure it is doable.
the sooner we realize that gates ain't the b-all and end-all, the better
off we'll all be.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1518 bytes --]

Actually, my first use of pcs were apple and their gui sucked worse than
windows, and keep in mind that apple borrowed their gui from xerox. I have
checked for mac addresses in windows, and I don't think its hard at all.
I've never had to monkey with irq's before, so I don't know how easy it is.
I never said gates was the end all or be all, otherwise I wouldn't be on a
linux list trying to figure out how to install linux, now would I? Grin.
I guess the point I'm trying to get across by that post is that everybody
is used to the windows interface and its many quirks, its that social
inertia thing. People these days aren't real willing to try something new,
even if its better, because they'd rather stick with the familiar. But you
do gotta admit that some things associated with windows are a tad more
simple, like the extension conventions windows use. Even someone not used
to windows can pretty much guess .txt are text files, .exe are executables,
.doc are documents, and so on. What's the apple .sid or the linux .rpm? Not
as simple for someone not used to those os's to know what those are, hell I
don't even know what .rpm is for.

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[MaTt]

i dont know what apple called it but jeez!!!all we had was the apple 2Cplus
i still have that around here somewhere i think, just too bad lonux probably
wont run it...or will it
i'm guessing no

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Symes" <jsymes@netins.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: Look Out Macintosh!


> Actually, my first use of pcs were apple and their gui sucked worse than
> windows, and keep in mind that apple borrowed their gui from xerox. I have
> checked for mac addresses in windows, and I don't think its hard at all.
> I've never had to monkey with irq's before, so I don't know how easy it
is.
> I never said gates was the end all or be all, otherwise I wouldn't be on a
> linux list trying to figure out how to install linux, now would I? Grin.
> I guess the point I'm trying to get across by that post is that everybody
> is used to the windows interface and its many quirks, its that social
> inertia thing. People these days aren't real willing to try something new,
> even if its better, because they'd rather stick with the familiar. But you
> do gotta admit that some things associated with windows are a tad more
> simple, like the extension conventions windows use. Even someone not used
> to windows can pretty much guess .txt are text files, .exe are
executables,
> .doc are documents, and so on. What's the apple .sid or the linux .rpm?
Not
> as simple for someone not used to those os's to know what those are, hell
I
> don't even know what .rpm is for.
>
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!
>

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2731 bytes --]

Ah, you used apple 2, that wasn't too bad, its the mac that's awful,
although I guess the latest version of mac osx is somewhat better, written
with a linux like interface I hear.
At 04:03 AM 9/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>i dont know what apple called it but jeez!!!all we had was the apple 2Cplus
>i still have that around here somewhere i think, just too bad lonux probably
>wont run it...or will it
>i'm guessing no
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jason Symes" <jsymes@netins.net>
>To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
>Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 3:26 AM
>Subject: Re: Look Out Macintosh!
>
>
>> Actually, my first use of pcs were apple and their gui sucked worse than
>> windows, and keep in mind that apple borrowed their gui from xerox. I have
>> checked for mac addresses in windows, and I don't think its hard at all.
>> I've never had to monkey with irq's before, so I don't know how easy it
>is.
>> I never said gates was the end all or be all, otherwise I wouldn't be on a
>> linux list trying to figure out how to install linux, now would I? Grin.
>> I guess the point I'm trying to get across by that post is that everybody
>> is used to the windows interface and its many quirks, its that social
>> inertia thing. People these days aren't real willing to try something new,
>> even if its better, because they'd rather stick with the familiar. But you
>> do gotta admit that some things associated with windows are a tad more
>> simple, like the extension conventions windows use. Even someone not used
>> to windows can pretty much guess .txt are text files, .exe are
>executables,
>> .doc are documents, and so on. What's the apple .sid or the linux .rpm?
>Not
>> as simple for someone not used to those os's to know what those are, hell
>I
>> don't even know what .rpm is for.
>>
>> Jason Symes
>> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
>> can cause kids
>> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
>> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
>> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
>> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
>> Just trying to plug away!
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[shaun_oliver]

jason, the mac osx is based on the bsd unix os.
hth

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 818 bytes --]

Close enough. Linux is a cousin of unix.
At 08:46 PM 9/14/02 +1000, you wrote:
>
>jason, the mac osx is based on the bsd unix os.
>hth
>
>-- 
>Shaun Oliver
>
>
>In a world without fences
>          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
>EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>ICQ: 76958435
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.  don't judge the Linux desktop by our current access to it.  I
recently got gnome 1.4 working for my sighted girl friend.  She's used
Windows, but not anything else.  She had no problems with gnome and has
already started comparing it with Windows.  She can customize it more
than she ever could with windows.

          Kenny

On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:44:22PM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> Now I can take issue with that, but I won't. Suffice it to say that Windows
> will stay no. 1 because of its easy, graphical interface.
> At 04:26 AM 9/14/02 +1000, you wrote:
> >
> >I'll take that bet,
> >and even go so far as to suggest that linux may well push mackentosh
> >far enough out of the loop so as to be a real threat to microsludge.
> >Having said that however, it's already a real threat. especially in the
> >area of accessability for disabled persons.
> >oh well,
> >just my australian $0.20
> >
> >On
> >Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:14:53PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> Yesterday's Wall Street Journal contained some interesting numbers on
> desktop market shares. Of course, you know who's products has the lion's
> share.
> >> But check out these two numbers for number two and number three:
> >> 
> >> Macintosh	3.1%
> >> Linux		2.7%
> >> 
> >> Seems to me Mac may be number three by this time next year? Anyone wanna
> bet on that?
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> 	
> >> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> 				Technology Research and Development
> >> 				Governmental Relations Group
> >> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> 
> >> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >> 
> >> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> >> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> >> http://www.openebook.org
> >> 
> >>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> >>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >-- 
> >Shaun Oliver
> >
> >
> >In a world without fences
> >          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
> >
> >EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> >ICQ: 76958435
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Ross Eadie]

Add voice and Braille, some games and other highly used software to gnome,
and we will have the ultimate competitor to MS.  On MS, didn't I hear a
couple of years ago that Mr. Gates bought into Apple to hedge his bets?


---
Ross Eadie
Voice:  (204) 339-5287

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 965 bytes --]

Nope, Mr. Gates paid Apple to keep Apple afloat and a competitor. Doesn't
look like forking out that money did any good, did it?
At 11:59 AM 9/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Add voice and Braille, some games and other highly used software to gnome,
>and we will have the ultimate competitor to MS.  On MS, didn't I hear a
>couple of years ago that Mr. Gates bought into Apple to hedge his bets?
>
>
>---
>Ross Eadie
>Voice:  (204) 339-5287
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Gregory Nowak]

What was his motive for wanting a competitor?
Greg


On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 12:27:45PM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> Nope, Mr. Gates paid Apple to keep Apple afloat and a competitor. Doesn't
> look like forking out that money did any good, did it?

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 994 bytes --]

Well, that was when the Clinton Justice Department was after him for
monopoly, but I won't discuss that because I'm sure you all have your
opinions on that and I have mine.
At 01:27 PM 9/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>What was his motive for wanting a competitor?
>Greg
>
>
>On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 12:27:45PM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
>> Nope, Mr. Gates paid Apple to keep Apple afloat and a competitor. Doesn't
>> look like forking out that money did any good, did it?
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[jwantz]

This is probably the main reason why os/x is Freebsd rather than linux.  
MS regards linux as a threat.

     Jim Wantz WB0TFK
On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Jason Symes wrote:

> Nope, Mr. Gates paid Apple to keep Apple afloat and a competitor. Doesn't
> look like forking out that money did any good, did it?
> At 11:59 AM 9/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >Add voice and Braille, some games and other highly used software to gnome,
> >and we will have the ultimate competitor to MS.  On MS, didn't I hear a
> >couple of years ago that Mr. Gates bought into Apple to hedge his bets?
> >
> >
> >---
> >Ross Eadie
> >Voice:  (204) 339-5287
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!
> 

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3576 bytes --]

Oh, I don't diss linux. I'm trying to learn how to use it myself because
I'm tired of all the window-related driver issues I've had lately. Windows
is configurable with tweakui.
At 08:52 AM 9/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Hi.  don't judge the Linux desktop by our current access to it.  I
>recently got gnome 1.4 working for my sighted girl friend.  She's used
>Windows, but not anything else.  She had no problems with gnome and has
>already started comparing it with Windows.  She can customize it more
>than she ever could with windows.
>
>          Kenny
>
>On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:44:22PM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
>> Now I can take issue with that, but I won't. Suffice it to say that Windows
>> will stay no. 1 because of its easy, graphical interface.
>> At 04:26 AM 9/14/02 +1000, you wrote:
>> >
>> >I'll take that bet,
>> >and even go so far as to suggest that linux may well push mackentosh
>> >far enough out of the loop so as to be a real threat to microsludge.
>> >Having said that however, it's already a real threat. especially in the
>> >area of accessability for disabled persons.
>> >oh well,
>> >just my australian $0.20
>> >
>> >On
>> >Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:14:53PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> Yesterday's Wall Street Journal contained some interesting numbers on
>> desktop market shares. Of course, you know who's products has the lion's
>> share.
>> >> But check out these two numbers for number two and number three:
>> >> 
>> >> Macintosh	3.1%
>> >> Linux		2.7%
>> >> 
>> >> Seems to me Mac may be number three by this time next year? Anyone wanna
>> bet on that?
>> >> 
>> >> -- 
>> >> 	
>> >> 				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> 				Technology Research and Development
>> >> 				Governmental Relations Group
>> >> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> 
>> >> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>> >> 
>> >> Chair, Accessibility SIG
>> >> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
>> >> http://www.openebook.org
>> >> 
>> >>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> >>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Speakup mailing list
>> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >
>> >-- 
>> >Shaun Oliver
>> >
>> >
>> >In a world without fences
>> >          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>> >
>> >EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>> >ICQ: 76958435
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Speakup mailing list
>> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >
>> >
>> Jason Symes
>> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
>> can cause kids
>> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
>> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
>> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
>> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
>> Just trying to plug away!
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Gregory Nowak]

I used tweak ui once, and ended up having to have to reinstall the os afterwords, because windblows screwed itself up, and became more unstable then usual.
Greg


On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 12:26:37PM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> Oh, I don't diss linux. I'm trying to learn how to use it myself because
> I'm tired of all the window-related driver issues I've had lately. Windows
> is configurable with tweakui.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1089 bytes --]

Hmmm, never had or heard of such a problem happening before, and I've used
tweakui for well over 2 years.
At 01:23 PM 9/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I used tweak ui once, and ended up having to have to reinstall the os
afterwords, because windblows screwed itself up, and became more unstable
then usual.
>Greg
>
>
>On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 12:26:37PM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
>> Oh, I don't diss linux. I'm trying to learn how to use it myself because
>> I'm tired of all the window-related driver issues I've had lately. Windows
>> is configurable with tweakui.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[shaun_oliver]

*SNIP*
I've used
tweakui for well over 2 years.
so have I and guess what, it's not supported by microsoft even though
they put it out there for all to play with.
and, if you don't have any clue what you're doing, you'll screw your os
up.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[MaTt]

just had to say, I love that signature!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: Look Out Macintosh!


> *SNIP*
> I've used
> tweakui for well over 2 years.
> so have I and guess what, it's not supported by microsoft even though
> they put it out there for all to play with.
> and, if you don't have any clue what you're doing, you'll screw your os
> up.
> 
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> 
> 
> In a world without fences
>           and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
> 
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1188 bytes --]

Is your knowledge of tweakui supposed to impress me? I've known that
tweakui's not supported since I installed it, and I obviously know what I'm
doing with it since I haven't had one problem with it screwing up windows.
At 06:02 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
>
>*SNIP*
>I've used
>tweakui for well over 2 years.
>so have I and guess what, it's not supported by microsoft even though
>they put it out there for all to play with.
>and, if you don't have any clue what you're doing, you'll screw your os
>up.
>
>-- 
>Shaun Oliver
>
>
>In a world without fences
>          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
>EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>ICQ: 76958435
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[shaun_oliver]

then piss off and go spu your windows rhetoric else where.
either that or just accept the fact that linux for us at least is the
better way to go..

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1333 bytes --]

Come on, truce. I never said windows was superior to linux, I was just
suggesting a couple reasons why windows is so popular to sighties. Since
I'm on here trying to learn about linux, I certainly don't think windows is
the best thing that's happened to my life, so lets just let this whole
thread of misunderstanding alone, how's that sound? Besides, I'm curious
about the linux tcp/ip stack and how I've heard its superior to that in
windows, is that true?
At 07:30 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
>
>then piss off and go spu your windows rhetoric else where.
>either that or just accept the fact that linux for us at least is the
>better way to go..
>
>-- 
>Shaun Oliver
>
>
>In a world without fences
>          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
>EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>ICQ: 76958435
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Janina Sajka]

Jason Symes writes:
> 
> ... I certainly don't think windows is
> the best thing that's happened to my life, so lets just let this whole
> thread of misunderstanding alone,
I'll ignore the bit about misunderstanding and just say that I think most of us would prefer to talk about Linux, and
not Windows. But, my several years experience on this list tells me we won't let inaccurate, uninformed, or other forms
of "Windows is better than Linux" statements go without a response. That isn't going to happen here.

So, anyone who shows up here and tells us that Windows will survive as the choice of most users because it of
"simplicity and inertia" is going to get a response. Notice I quoted your original post. Those are your exact words.

> Besides, I'm curious
> about the linux tcp/ip stack and how I've heard its superior to that in
> windows,
My understanding is that everybody uses the same BSD tcp/ip stack technology, everybody. I may be wrong, but I don't
think so.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1951 bytes --]

That's the thing, I never said it was better, in fact I've said that in
some ways Linux is far superior. I was just giving reasons why sighted
people stick with Windows rather than switching, and making that flub made
it worse. I do have a tendency to misspeak (or mistype in this case) when
I'm writing faster than I should. I meant no offense to those of you that
hate windows to death.
At 11:21 AM 9/15/02 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Jason Symes writes:
>> 
>> ... I certainly don't think windows is
>> the best thing that's happened to my life, so lets just let this whole
>> thread of misunderstanding alone,
>I'll ignore the bit about misunderstanding and just say that I think most
of us would prefer to talk about Linux, and
>not Windows. But, my several years experience on this list tells me we
won't let inaccurate, uninformed, or other forms
>of "Windows is better than Linux" statements go without a response. That
isn't going to happen here.
>
>So, anyone who shows up here and tells us that Windows will survive as the
choice of most users because it of
>"simplicity and inertia" is going to get a response. Notice I quoted your
original post. Those are your exact words.
>
>> Besides, I'm curious
>> about the linux tcp/ip stack and how I've heard its superior to that in
>> windows,
>My understanding is that everybody uses the same BSD tcp/ip stack
technology, everybody. I may be wrong, but I don't
>think so.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Sean, Sean, my friend, calm down, don't get all revved up.  It's not
worth it, my friend.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Um, let's not fight guys, especially over Windows.  We all know that
Windows has many less desirable characteristics, but we don't need to
fight about it.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Gregory Nowak]

Are you suggesting that if you, or rather tweak ui screws windows, the person using it doesn't know what s/he is doing? If you are, then you are way off. If I didn't know what I was doing in windows, I wouldn't be here running a GNU/Linux server today.
Greg


On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 03:43:09AM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> Is your knowledge of tweakui supposed to impress me? I've known that
> tweakui's not supported since I installed it, and I obviously know what I'm
> doing with it since I haven't had one problem with it screwing up windows.
> At 06:02 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
> >
> >*SNIP*
> >I've used
> >tweakui for well over 2 years.
> >so have I and guess what, it's not supported by microsoft even though
> >they put it out there for all to play with.
> >and, if you don't have any clue what you're doing, you'll screw your os
> >up.
> >
> >-- 
> >Shaun Oliver
> >
> >
> >In a world without fences
> >          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
> >
> >EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> >ICQ: 76958435
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> Jason Symes
> kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
> can cause kids
> The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
> zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
> if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
> If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
> Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 774 bytes --]

I'm not going to reply defensively to this post, since I've already made
truce with most of the list.
At 01:08 PM 9/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Are you suggesting that if you, or rather tweak ui screws windows, the
person using it doesn't know what s/he is doing? If you are, then you are
way off. If I didn't know what I was doing in windows, I wouldn't be here
running a GNU/Linux server today.
>Greg

Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Gregory Nowak]

Yes, I seemed to have come back in at the very end of the thread, so wanted to get my last word in.
Greg


On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 01:27:11PM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> I'm not going to reply defensively to this post, since I've already made
> truce with most of the list.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Surely, Gregg, you can't be saying that knowledge of Windows is somehow a 
prerequisite for learning gnu/Linux, can you?  The only time I ever 
touched a machine with Windows loaded was when I unboxed this laptop, 
inserted the Red Hat Linux-7.1 boot-disk, and blew away the disk in order 
to install something useful.  I run a server and two laptops, and provide 
tech support for lots more RHL systems, and I can't believe that I'm any 
where near the only one in this position.  BTW, your post was all on one 
line, a feature of MUTT, I gather.



-- 
          Bill in Denver


On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Are you suggesting that if you, or rather tweak ui screws windows, the person using it doesn't know what s/he is doing? If you are, then you are way off. If I didn't know what I was doing in windows, I wouldn't be here running a GNU/Linux server today.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Gregory Nowak]

What I was saying is that someone who runs a GNU/Linux server would know how not to screw up windows. 

I didn't mean to suggest that you need to know windows before learning GNU/Linux. In fact, I think you would be better off that way, because you wouldn't bring your windows misconceptions with you into GNU/Linux.

If someone can tell me how to turn on line  wrap in emacs, that would help with the one-line posts when I forget to tap the enter key. 

While we're on mutt, could you please consider upgrading it on speakup.octothorp.org Bill? Thanks.
Greg


On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 01:36:32PM -0600, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:
> Surely, Gregg, you can't be saying that knowledge of Windows is somehow a 
> prerequisite for learning gnu/Linux, can you?  The only time I ever 
> touched a machine with Windows loaded was when I unboxed this laptop, 
> inserted the Red Hat Linux-7.1 boot-disk, and blew away the disk in order 
> to install something useful.  I run a server and two laptops, and provide 
> tech support for lots more RHL systems, and I can't believe that I'm any 
> where near the only one in this position.  BTW, your post was all on one 
> line, a feature of MUTT, I gather.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>           Bill in Denver
> 
> 

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Scott Howell]

Can I ask what in hell does windows and Linux have to do with one or the
other. Drawing parallels vetween them in terms of knowledge is pointless
and irrelavent.
Comparing tem in terms of functionality would be a more realistic use of
words. Comparing whether you are better off learning one over the other
and when makes no sense. I know both and can say it makes me a more
informed user and able to assist those in transitioning from a microsoft
platform to a Linux platform.
So my point? Consider that knowing one over the other makes no sense and
instead knowing both can in fact pay ten fold. There is how you can again
best support folks who wish to make the switch.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Done.  You'll need to test it, since I don't use it.


On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> 
> While we're on mutt, could you please consider upgrading it on speakup.octothorp.org Bill? Thanks.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Steve Holmes]

Yes, I word wrap all the time when I use emacs to edit my mutt
messages; I will include the relevant pieces from .emacs file which
will automatically put into auto-fill mode whenever you open up a new
message from mutt.

On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 03:24:35PM -0500, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> snip snip
> 
> If someone can tell me how to turn on line  wrap in emacs, that would help with the one-line posts when I forget to tap the enter key. 
> 

(push '("mutt-.*" . text-mode) auto-mode-alist)
(add-hook 'text-mode-hook 'auto-fill-mode)

Feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[shaun_oliver]

*SNIP*
Windows
is configurable with tweakui.
Oh sure. if you want errors sent to faultlog.txt or whatever it is and
auto logons and crap like that, it's real good.
can you script for windows? oh sure you can write a batch file. big
bloody deal! there's just no comparison to bash or any other shell you
can choose with linux.
stop trying to preech the joys of windows and learn to use and configure
a real os.

-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1252 bytes --]

I'm not trying to preach how good windows is, I'm trying to learn linux.
Its you that keeps bashing windows.
At 06:00 PM 9/15/02 +1000, you wrote:
>
>*SNIP*
>Windows
>is configurable with tweakui.
>Oh sure. if you want errors sent to faultlog.txt or whatever it is and
>auto logons and crap like that, it's real good.
>can you script for windows? oh sure you can write a batch file. big
>bloody deal! there's just no comparison to bash or any other shell you
>can choose with linux.
>stop trying to preech the joys of windows and learn to use and configure
>a real os.
>
>-- 
>Shaun Oliver
>
>
>In a world without fences
>          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?
>
>EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
>ICQ: 76958435
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Gregory Nowak]

On Sun, Sep 15, 2002 at 03:41:14AM -0500, Jason Symes wrote:
> Its you that keeps bashing windows.


And apparently, you continue to promote it on a gnu/linux list. Doesn't macroslop have a place for this kind of stuff?
Greg

Re: Look Out Macintosh!

[Jason Symes]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1528 bytes --]

Oh, I'll bet my life savings on it! I used a mac over 10 years ago, and I
don't even see why 3.1 percent use macs. Interface was ugly, unfriendly,
unlabeled, incompregensible, and so on and so forth!
At 02:14 PM 9/13/02 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Yesterday's Wall Street Journal contained some interesting numbers on
desktop market shares. Of course, you know who's products has the lion's
share.
>But check out these two numbers for number two and number three:
>
>Macintosh	3.1%
>Linux		2.7%
>
>Seems to me Mac may be number three by this time next year? Anyone wanna
bet on that?
>
>-- 
>	
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Technology Research and Development
>				Governmental Relations Group
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
>Chair, Accessibility SIG
>Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
>http://www.openebook.org
>
>   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
Jason Symes
kids in the backseat can cause accidents, but accidents in the back seat
can cause kids
The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return. It's the
zero adjust on his bathroom scale. (Arthur C. Clarke)
if you stand for nothing you're liable to fall for anything.
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any at all!
Just trying to plug away!