Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[Adam Myrow]

I can hear the advertising now.  "Redhat, so easy, no wonder it's number
1!"  They'll be showing a grandmother on TV saying "my grandson sends me
email every day and I can actually reply with AOL for Redhat."

In all seriousness, I don't think they could take out the command line.
After all, that's how Linux works.  They could make it start up in X, and
people wouldn't use the command line, but it's still in there.  Even
Windows XP has a command line if I understand it correctly.  I just think
it's funny that AOL is interested in Linux.

What this shows is what I've believed for a long time.  Linux is at a
critical point in its history.  It's powerful enough to run serious
servers, but it's starting to grab the attention of the public because
they are finally starting to get tired of Windows crashing and excepting
that this is not normal behavior for a computer.  So, they are looking to
Linux because it has a reputation for stability, but they see that it
isn't Windows at all.  They want Windows without the bugs, and the Linux
users want something other than Windows.  So, we have word processors
under the GUI, ICQ cloans and such under the GUI, and development tools
running at the command line.  Redhat is clearly trying to attract home
users with its Plug 'N Play type install while Slackware is staying with a
"do it yourself" approach and other distributions seem to be somewhere in
the middle.  Linux is going to go one way or the other.  It's really up to
the users to decide which way it goes.

Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[Thomas Ward]

Lol! That is funny. Actually, Red Hat 7.2 by default loads the gui, and when
you log in you are dropped on a Gnome 1.4 desktop which is nice. Since my
family likes the gui on start up I leave it that way.
However, a alt+control+f1 sets me right, and gets me into a bash prompt to
get some work done.
So it is no big deal if Linux os's such as Mandrake 8.1 or Red Hat 7.2 it is
set to runlevel 5. One key stroke and you are in bash.
I think you are right though. Linux is at a critical point. Big companies
like IBM are taking Linux serious, and many of home users are peed off at
they way MS puts in their security for XP.
Now is the time to start proving the os for what it can do. However,
Mandrake and Red Hat are good distributions for the average home user. After
most of them can't even reinstall MS Windows which is easy. How could they
even think about Slackware which requires a little knolege of system files
etc.


----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Myrow <myrow@eskimo.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?


> I can hear the advertising now.  "Redhat, so easy, no wonder it's number
> 1!"  They'll be showing a grandmother on TV saying "my grandson sends me
> email every day and I can actually reply with AOL for Redhat."
>
> In all seriousness, I don't think they could take out the command line.
> After all, that's how Linux works.  They could make it start up in X, and
> people wouldn't use the command line, but it's still in there.  Even
> Windows XP has a command line if I understand it correctly.  I just think
> it's funny that AOL is interested in Linux.
>
> What this shows is what I've believed for a long time.  Linux is at a
> critical point in its history.  It's powerful enough to run serious
> servers, but it's starting to grab the attention of the public because
> they are finally starting to get tired of Windows crashing and excepting
> that this is not normal behavior for a computer.  So, they are looking to
> Linux because it has a reputation for stability, but they see that it
> isn't Windows at all.  They want Windows without the bugs, and the Linux
> users want something other than Windows.  So, we have word processors
> under the GUI, ICQ cloans and such under the GUI, and development tools
> running at the command line.  Redhat is clearly trying to attract home
> users with its Plug 'N Play type install while Slackware is staying with a
> "do it yourself" approach and other distributions seem to be somewhere in
> the middle.  Linux is going to go one way or the other.  It's really up to
> the users to decide which way it goes.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[Steve Holmes]

You say that pressing control alt f1 drops you to a bash prompt.  What
about logging in? Do you have to login through this X environment first?
Could you have a different console come up with a different run level to
give you a command style login and shell?  From what I recall about
initab, you could have a different run level for each console (at least
under slackware).  I think the init/inittab stuff is generic - non
specific to distributions, right?

On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:

> Lol! That is funny. Actually, Red Hat 7.2 by default loads the gui, and when
> you log in you are dropped on a Gnome 1.4 desktop which is nice. Since my
> family likes the gui on start up I leave it that way.
> However, a alt+control+f1 sets me right, and gets me into a bash prompt to
> get some work done.
> So it is no big deal if Linux os's such as Mandrake 8.1 or Red Hat 7.2 it is
> set to runlevel 5. One key stroke and you are in bash.
> I think you are right though. Linux is at a critical point. Big companies
> like IBM are taking Linux serious, and many of home users are peed off at
> they way MS puts in their security for XP.
> Now is the time to start proving the os for what it can do. However,
> Mandrake and Red Hat are good distributions for the average home user. After
> most of them can't even reinstall MS Windows which is easy. How could they
> even think about Slackware which requires a little knolege of system files
> etc.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Adam Myrow <myrow@eskimo.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 3:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?
>
>
> > I can hear the advertising now.  "Redhat, so easy, no wonder it's number
> > 1!"  They'll be showing a grandmother on TV saying "my grandson sends me
> > email every day and I can actually reply with AOL for Redhat."
> >
> > In all seriousness, I don't think they could take out the command line.
> > After all, that's how Linux works.  They could make it start up in X, and
> > people wouldn't use the command line, but it's still in there.  Even
> > Windows XP has a command line if I understand it correctly.  I just think
> > it's funny that AOL is interested in Linux.
> >
> > What this shows is what I've believed for a long time.  Linux is at a
> > critical point in its history.  It's powerful enough to run serious
> > servers, but it's starting to grab the attention of the public because
> > they are finally starting to get tired of Windows crashing and excepting
> > that this is not normal behavior for a computer.  So, they are looking to
> > Linux because it has a reputation for stability, but they see that it
> > isn't Windows at all.  They want Windows without the bugs, and the Linux
> > users want something other than Windows.  So, we have word processors
> > under the GUI, ICQ cloans and such under the GUI, and development tools
> > running at the command line.  Redhat is clearly trying to attract home
> > users with its Plug 'N Play type install while Slackware is staying with a
> > "do it yourself" approach and other distributions seem to be somewhere in
> > the middle.  Linux is going to go one way or the other.  It's really up to
> > the users to decide which way it goes.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[Terry Cudney]

You wrote:

-=> You say that pressing control alt f1 drops you to a bash prompt.  What
-=> about logging in? Do you have to login through this X environment first?


	No, you don't have to log in to the X session at all. You can go to any one of the virtual consoles that you have enabled on your system by pressing Ctrl+Alt+F# where # is the number of the virtual console that you want.

-=> Could you have a different console come up with a different run level to
-=> give you a command style login and shell?  From what I recall about
-=> initab, you could have a different run level for each console (at least
-=> under slackware).  I think the init/inittab stuff is generic - non
-=> specific to distributions, right?


	At any given time your machine is running at a particular run level. You cannot have several consoles simultaneously running at different run-levels (unless they are on different machines).


-=> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Thomas Ward wrote:
-=>
-=> > Lol! That is funny. Actually, Red Hat 7.2 by default loads the gui, and when
-=> > you log in you are dropped on a Gnome 1.4 desktop which is nice. Since my
-=> > family likes the gui on start up I leave it that way.
-=> > However, a alt+control+f1 sets me right, and gets me into a bash prompt to
-=> > get some work done.
-=> > So it is no big deal if Linux os's such as Mandrake 8.1 or Red Hat 7.2 it is
-=> > set to runlevel 5. One key stroke and you are in bash.
-=> > I think you are right though. Linux is at a critical point. Big companies
-=> > like IBM are taking Linux serious, and many of home users are peed off at
-=> > they way MS puts in their security for XP.
-=> > Now is the time to start proving the os for what it can do. However,
-=> > Mandrake and Red Hat are good distributions for the average home user. After
-=> > most of them can't even reinstall MS Windows which is easy. How could they
-=> > even think about Slackware which requires a little knolege of system files
-=> > etc.
-=> >
-=> >
-=> > ----- Original Message -----
-=> > From: Adam Myrow <myrow@eskimo.com>
-=> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
-=> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 3:24 PM
-=> > Subject: Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?
-=> >
-=> >
-=> > > I can hear the advertising now.  "Redhat, so easy, no wonder it's number
-=> > > 1!"  They'll be showing a grandmother on TV saying "my grandson sends me
-=> > > email every day and I can actually reply with AOL for Redhat."
-=> > >
-=> > > In all seriousness, I don't think they could take out the command line.
-=> > > After all, that's how Linux works.  They could make it start up in X, and
-=> > > people wouldn't use the command line, but it's still in there.  Even
-=> > > Windows XP has a command line if I understand it correctly.  I just think
-=> > > it's funny that AOL is interested in Linux.
-=> > >
-=> > > What this shows is what I've believed for a long time.  Linux is at a
-=> > > critical point in its history.  It's powerful enough to run serious
-=> > > servers, but it's starting to grab the attention of the public because
-=> > > they are finally starting to get tired of Windows crashing and excepting
-=> > > that this is not normal behavior for a computer.  So, they are looking to
-=> > > Linux because it has a reputation for stability, but they see that it
-=> > > isn't Windows at all.  They want Windows without the bugs, and the Linux
-=> > > users want something other than Windows.  So, we have word processors
-=> > > under the GUI, ICQ cloans and such under the GUI, and development tools
-=> > > running at the command line.  Redhat is clearly trying to attract home
-=> > > users with its Plug 'N Play type install while Slackware is staying with a
-=> > > "do it yourself" approach and other distributions seem to be somewhere in
-=> > > the middle.  Linux is going to go one way or the other.  It's really up to
-=> > > the users to decide which way it goes.
-=> > >
-=> > >
-=> > > _______________________________________________
-=> > > Speakup mailing list
-=> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
-=> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
-=> > >
-=> >
-=> >
-=> > _______________________________________________
-=> > Speakup mailing list
-=> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
-=> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
-=> >
-=>
-=>
-=> _______________________________________________
-=> Speakup mailing list
-=> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
-=> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
-=>

		--terry

Name:	Terry D. Cudney
Phone:	(905)735-6127
E-mail:	terry@wasagacottage.com
WWW:	www.wasagacottage.com



Q:	How many hardware engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A:	None.  We'll fix it in software.

Q:	How many system programmers does it take to change a light bulb?
A:	None.  The application can work around it.

Q:	How many software engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A:	None.  We'll document it in the manual.

Q:	How many tech writers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A:	None.  The user can figure it out.

Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[Geoff Shang]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:

> You say that pressing control alt f1 drops you to a bash prompt.  What
> about logging in? Do you have to login through this X environment first?

To clarify: control-alt-F1 drops you to a login prompt, if memory serves.

Geoff.

runlevel 5 was Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[Thomas Ward]

Hi. I guess I confused a couple of you. However, here is the scoop.

In distributions that are set to runlevel 5 out of the box such as, Red Hat,
Kaldera, and Mandrake you waith until the xdm login box comes up. Then, you
can do a alt+ctrl+f1, alt+ctrl+f2, etc to switch to a text login. Once you
login you are in bash.
However, if you want to drop into x for some reason one can alt+ctrl+f7 and
drop into the xdm login, and log into x. Then, those commands will switch
you back and forth.

If the computer is just for yourself you can just switch it back to runlevel
3. If you have sighted members around who use it I find it better to leave
it in runlevel 5, because they want their Windows environment on startup.

Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[charles crawford]

	My concern for the redhat purchase by AOL is this.  While I am no
expert programmer, from my experience doing it, I can see how to array
images as variables without text and click on one of them to launch a
particular module.  So whether Linux is text based or not, the concept is
the same.  Write the software to act on a graphical interface and forget
the command line.  I could be wrong and I hope that I am, but that is what
I think.

	Irrespective of whatever the situation may be, we will need to
do the advocacy to insure the text interface.

-- Charlie Crawford.

Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[Kirk Wood]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, charles crawford wrote:
> 	My concern for the redhat purchase by AOL is this.  While I am no
> expert programmer, from my experience doing it, I can see how to array
> images as variables without text and click on one of them to launch a
> particular module.  So whether Linux is text based or not, the concept is
> the same.  Write the software to act on a graphical interface and forget
> the command line.  I could be wrong and I hope that I am, but that is what
> I think.

And I hope you are right. The reason is quite simple, though two fold:
1) This would have the source available and thus able to be hacked for
speech.
2) This would in no way affect linux. It might mean that what we now think
of as RedHat would need a new name. But this is doubtful.

I don't see any reason they would do any more then replace the shell. And
their product wouldn't be what we think of as a complete distribution
anyway. There are many out there using linux. Does it scare people that
there is a linux based PDA under production? It doesn't work with speakup.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nowlan's Theory:
        He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from
        the next freeway exit.

Re: Will Redhat Become a Division of AOL Time-Warner?

[Thomas Ward]

Well, weather anyone here likes it or not if AOL does purchase Red Hat
combined with IBM's support behind it Linux will become more designed for
the masses, and AOL and IBM will try to market it so.

The results could become two fold. One Linux will get alot of attention, and
perhaps companies will port drivers, software, etc to Linux. Of course since
Gnopernicus is the only x-based screen reader under construction it will get
most if not all the lime light.

However, on the down side that may draw lots of attention away from other
distributions and access projects. Esentually, making Red Hat into some sort
of virtual standard for all distributions.


I guess we have to wait and see how it all shakes out.