earliest possible software speech at boot?

earliest possible software speech at boot?

[David Bruzos]

Hello everyone:
I have been playing with the software speech thing, but I need some ideas about how to start software speech earlier in 
the boot process.
Right now, I can start software speech as one of the first services in the runlevel, but I like to be able to do it 
before the partition checking, so that if there are problems, they can be resolved.  I am not sure how to approach this 
problem, because I don't even know where to begin...  These are some of my questions:

1. Can I run any scripts and/or programs before the runlevel (rc3.d) stuff begins excecution?  Also, how early on?
2.  If so, would I have to mount a RAM disk or something to provide the files I need?
3. If not, what possibilities are there for modifying the FC2 setup for allowing something like this?
4. If you know of a source in the net that might have some info about this, can you point me there?


I tried google, but my searches were not returning anything usefull...

As of now, I have compiled support for my sound card in my kernel so that sound is available right away.  So, this part 
should be covered...

Thanx!


David B.

Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?

[Kirk Reiser]

One of the cheets I use occasionally is to load modules from
/etc/modules.  This method is suppose to be out of date and liable to
change but it works and starts speakup quite a bit earlier than the
rc.d levels.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?

[David Bruzos]

Yeah, at least in Fedora I can also start speakup from the initrd image and 
this also works very well.  However, remember that I am talking about 
software speech...  how can I have speech-dispatcher running before the rc.d 
levels?
I mean, is there a way to run commands before rc.d.  E.G. before the 
partition check starts...

TIA

David B.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?


> One of the cheets I use occasionally is to load modules from
> /etc/modules.  This method is suppose to be out of date and liable to
> change but it works and starts speakup quite a bit earlier than the
> rc.d levels.
>
>  Kirk
>
> -- 
>
> Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?

[Kirk Reiser]

If you load the softsynth device early then it will start buffering
console output up to it's buffer size which is 8k.  Then when
speechd-up and speech-dispatcher get started you will hear all the
output which was buffered up until that point.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?

[David Bruzos]

I did not know that...  However, what about the partition checks and 
anything else that might require action?  Sometimes my system says: " disk 
check returned errors, dropping you to a shell" and I get a bash prompt so I 
can do repare tasks (this is before the rc.d scripts could load 
speech-dispatcher".  Do you think there can be a way to get working software 
speech at this point?

David B.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?


> If you load the softsynth device early then it will start buffering
> console output up to it's buffer size which is 8k.  Then when
> speechd-up and speech-dispatcher get started you will hear all the
> output which was buffered up until that point.
>
>  Kirk
>
> -- 
>
> Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?

[Kirk Reiser]

Um, look, if you want the benefits of a hardware synth then you need a
hardware synth.  During a boot you can't really run any other software
simply because the partitions haven't been loaded and you don't even
have a writable root partition mounted at that point.

This is one of the reasons I built speech into the kernel so you can
manipulate your system by yourself.  If you have to depend on other
software to do that then you cannot manipulate your system by
yourself.

At this point in time there are no software synths which will either
fit into the kernel or operate in the kernel because of floating point
restrictions.  If someone wants to write one we will all be grateful.
Until then buy a hardware synth if you need it early.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?

[David Bruzos]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?


> Um, look, if you want the benefits of a hardware synth then you need a
> hardware synth.  During a boot you can't really run any other software
> simply because the partitions haven't been loaded and you don't even
> have a writable root partition mounted at that point.
>

David said:
I understand and your point is well taken.  So, if the root partition is not 
writable I can't run other software?

>
> This is one of the reasons I built speech into the kernel so you can
> manipulate your system by yourself.  If you have to depend on other
> software to do that then you cannot manipulate your system by
> yourself.
>

David said:
The problem is that sometimes not depending on other software means that you 
have to depend on other people and that is not always an option...  So, I 
just wanted to try anything that could be tried.  Don't get me wrong, I 
think that Speakup in the kernel is a very wonderful thing!  I also love my 
hardware synth, but sometimes I don't have it hanging from my laptop and my 
girl friend's laptop does not even have a serial port...

>
> At this point in time there are no software synths which will either
> fit into the kernel or operate in the kernel because of floating point
> restrictions.  If someone wants to write one we will all be grateful.
> Until then buy a hardware synth if you need it early.
>

David said:
I agree, that would be so cool!

>  Kirk
>
> -- 
>
> Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?

[Janina Sajka]

I may be way off, but the only way I can think to do what he wants is to
build an initrd that holds everything necessary.

OK, that's a theoretical solution. I don't know that anyone has even
come close to such a thing. Maybe this isn't even theoretical but rather
conjectural. Kirk is correct. Software and hardware synths are not drop
in substitutes for one another. Each type has its advantages and
drawbacks.

Kirk Reiser writes:
> Um, look, if you want the benefits of a hardware synth then you need a
> hardware synth.  During a boot you can't really run any other software
> simply because the partitions haven't been loaded and you don't even
> have a writable root partition mounted at that point.
> 
> This is one of the reasons I built speech into the kernel so you can
> manipulate your system by yourself.  If you have to depend on other
> software to do that then you cannot manipulate your system by
> yourself.
> 
> At this point in time there are no software synths which will either
> fit into the kernel or operate in the kernel because of floating point
> restrictions.  If someone wants to write one we will all be grateful.
> Until then buy a hardware synth if you need it early.
> 
>   Kirk
> 
> -- 
> 
> Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Chair
				Accessibility Workgroup
				Free Standards Group (FSG)

janina@freestandards.org	Phone: +1 202.494.7040

Re: earliest possible software speech at boot?

[Thomas Stivers]

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On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 10:56:19 PM -0500, David Bruzos wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone:
> I have been playing with the software speech thing, but I need some ideas about how to start software speech earlier in 
> the boot process.
> Right now, I can start software speech as one of the first services in the runlevel, but I like to be able to do it 
> before the partition checking, so that if there are problems, they can be resolved.  I am not sure how to approach this 
> problem, because I don't even know where to begin...  These are some of my questions:
> 
> 1. Can I run any scripts and/or programs before the runlevel (rc3.d) stuff begins excecution?  Also, how early on?

I am not sure about Fedora, but Debian has an rcS.d set of init scripts
that are run before the runlevel ones. Perhaps you can link to the
script from there. You just need to be sure that the filesystem where
all the commands you need to run is mounted. This usually means that
/usr/local must be mounted. This won't be a problem if it is on the /
filesystem. 

- -- 
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan

Thomas Stivers	e-mail: stivers_t@tomass.dyndns.org
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