* flame wars?
@ Igor Gueths
` Ann Parsons
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Igor Gueths @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Hi all. I am writing this to the entire list because someone is agreeing with Kerry on the following fact (s), and I hope that things can get straightened out.
Kerry brought up a rather interesting point today and yesterday. Her point was that she was trying to tell me, and possibly others on the list that people weren't looking through documentation before posting to the list. I just would like to state the fact that in terms of me, I don't use the list as a first resort. In my example yesterday about the user accounts, I didn't find a reference to userdel in the adduser man page. So I just thought that I would ask about it. She also brought up the fact that she thought that list traffic would be minimized if people stopped asking questions they could otherwise find in man pages and/or other documentation. I can tell you right now that this list doesn't even have a fraction of the traffic that a list like Debian-user or Debian-bugs has. I would estimate that they get about 100 messages or more per hour through these two lists. I was subscribed to Debian-user for some time, and I got back a couple of days later to check my mail and I had about 400 messages. So as far as I am concerned, list traffic is not an issue here. Also, I think that any question should be able to be asked and answered. For example, I read about the problems that Cheryl was having, and I decided to reply. I like to be helpfull, and to be able to share my knolige with people so that I can help them out. I can't say that this is a definite exactly, but in my opinion, Kerry seems to think otherwise. I don't know if she is trying to single me out here because of what I asked yesterday. Also, someone replied and added that they agreed with her about the stupid question thing. In other words, she stated that people should read docs and use the list as a last resort. I think that this is all well and true, but then she also said that users should be turned away from a list if some people think that the user is using the list as a first resort instead of reading documentation? I disagree with the last point. And I think that Anne will agree with me on this. Even if the poster hasn't read the docs before asking his/her question, reply to the message with an answer, and then tell them where they can get more information. This way, they learn where the documentation for their answer is available, plus they might find other useful information. Also, refrane from flaming posters just because they asked a question on a mailing list which in someone's opinion, the answer is readily available in a document. What I'm trying to say from all this is that we shouldn't start flaming users just because they ask "stupid" questions. Also, I want to make sure that I am not a target of such a flame.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread* flame wars? flame wars? Igor Gueths @ ` Ann Parsons ` Igor Gueths ` Georgina Joyce ` Shaun Oliver 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Ann Parsons @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi all, Igor, you're right for the most part. think maybe you need to write privately to Kerry and find out why he is miffed with you. <smile> No reason for flame wars. I will state again, that if you don't know what you're looking for in docs, it doesn't do you a bit of good to look for it. 'rmuser' is not 'userdel', and the second command can not be found unless you know it exists. I suspect too, that the reference in the documentation is to deleting users rather than removing them, hence the stumbling block. I repeat, if you look on linuxdoc for 'skuzzy', you won't find it. If you look for SCSI, you'll find documentation galore. No worries, think there's just been a misunderstanding. Ann P. -- Ann K. Parsons email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: flame wars? ` Ann Parsons @ ` Igor Gueths ` Kerry Hoath 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Igor Gueths @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Yeah I might do that. But he might think I am a lamer or something. But I don't think that lamers understand C too well. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:05 PM Subject: flame wars? > Hi all, > > Igor, you're right for the most part. think maybe you need to write > privately to Kerry and find out why he is miffed with you. <smile> > No reason for flame wars. > > I will state again, that if you don't know what you're looking for in > docs, it doesn't do you a bit of good to look for it. 'rmuser' is not > 'userdel', and the second command can not be found unless you know it > exists. I suspect too, that the reference in the documentation is to > deleting users rather than removing them, hence the stumbling block. > I repeat, if you look on linuxdoc for 'skuzzy', you won't find it. If > you look for SCSI, you'll find documentation galore. > > No worries, think there's just been a misunderstanding. > > Ann P. > > -- > Ann K. Parsons > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: flame wars? ` Igor Gueths @ ` Kerry Hoath ` Igor Gueths ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Kerry Hoath @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I don't think any particular user is a lamer or a looser or any other demeaning term. I do have a problem when a user asks a question that I have allready answered in a message to them. If you don't understand something ask for clarification, and if at first you don't understand a message I have sent answering your question, stash it away since you may get a piece of knowledge that will clear things up. I agree; list trafic is low on this list, and if it were not; I would unsubscribe since I pay per megabyte received at 20.9 cents per meg. I do remember when I was new to Linux, although when I got involved the only distribution available was sls and you build everything from source once you had core binaries. These were the days of kernel 0.99p4 which had no networking code in it by default and no sound driver. As a result; I am used to doing things the hard way, and in some cases the slow way. Things have definitely become easier however there is still a lot to learn for the new user. If terms are confusing, try http://www.whatis.com since they have both a simple and complex definition of a lot of things that suits the novice and expert alike. Remember, there are list archives, and although this can be tedious often they may contain answers to problems that have allready been covered on the list. This does not mean you are not free to re-ask a question, but it can save time if the answer is easy to find. Regards, Kerry. On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:16:56PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote: > Yeah I might do that. But he might think I am a lamer or something. But I don't think that lamers understand C too well. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:05 PM > Subject: flame wars? > > > > Hi all, > > > > Igor, you're right for the most part. think maybe you need to write > > privately to Kerry and find out why he is miffed with you. <smile> > > No reason for flame wars. > > > > I will state again, that if you don't know what you're looking for in > > docs, it doesn't do you a bit of good to look for it. 'rmuser' is not > > 'userdel', and the second command can not be found unless you know it > > exists. I suspect too, that the reference in the documentation is to > > deleting users rather than removing them, hence the stumbling block. > > I repeat, if you look on linuxdoc for 'skuzzy', you won't find it. If > > you look for SCSI, you'll find documentation galore. > > > > No worries, think there's just been a misunderstanding. > > > > Ann P. > > > > -- > > Ann K. Parsons > > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -- Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or kerry@gotss.spice.net.au ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: flame wars? ` Kerry Hoath @ ` Igor Gueths ` Kerry Hoath ` gnu/linux distros, was: " Gregory Nowak ` Toby Fisher 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Igor Gueths @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Kerry. Thanks for the clarification, I now understand where you are coming from. I would however say that if someone has posted a question that has already been answered, the reply could indicate where to obtain the more detailed answer to the previous post of the same question. I am not trying to criticize your way of thinking, I am just trying to offer up sollutions to the problem (s). Also, who is your isp? Because I have never heard of an isp that charges 20 cents per meg. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kerry Hoath <kerry@gotss.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: Re: flame wars? > I don't think any particular user is a lamer or a looser or any other demeaning > term. > I do have a problem when a user asks a question that I have allready > answered in a message to them. > If you don't understand something ask for clarification, and if at first you don't understand > a message I have sent answering your question, stash it away since > you may get a piece of knowledge that will clear things up. > I agree; list trafic is low on this list, and if it were not; > I would unsubscribe since I pay per megabyte received at 20.9 cents per meg. > I do remember when I was new to Linux, although when I got involved > the only distribution available was sls and you build everything from > source once you had core binaries. These were the days of kernel 0.99p4 > which had no networking code in it by default and no sound driver. > As a result; I am used to doing things the hard way, > and in some cases the slow way. Things have definitely become easier > however there is still a lot to learn for the new user. > If terms are confusing, try http://www.whatis.com since they have both a simple and complex > definition of a lot of things that suits the novice and expert alike. > Remember, there are list archives, and although this can be tedious often they may > contain answers to problems that have allready been covered on the list. > This does not mean you are not free to re-ask a question, but it can save time > if the answer is easy to find. > > Regards, Kerry. > On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:16:56PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote: > > Yeah I might do that. But he might think I am a lamer or something. But I don't think that lamers understand C too well. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:05 PM > > Subject: flame wars? > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Igor, you're right for the most part. think maybe you need to write > > > privately to Kerry and find out why he is miffed with you. <smile> > > > No reason for flame wars. > > > > > > I will state again, that if you don't know what you're looking for in > > > docs, it doesn't do you a bit of good to look for it. 'rmuser' is not > > > 'userdel', and the second command can not be found unless you know it > > > exists. I suspect too, that the reference in the documentation is to > > > deleting users rather than removing them, hence the stumbling block. > > > I repeat, if you look on linuxdoc for 'skuzzy', you won't find it. If > > > you look for SCSI, you'll find documentation galore. > > > > > > No worries, think there's just been a misunderstanding. > > > > > > Ann P. > > > > > > -- > > > Ann K. Parsons > > > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > > > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > > > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > -- > Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or kerry@gotss.spice.net.au > ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: flame wars? ` Igor Gueths @ ` Kerry Hoath 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Kerry Hoath @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I get my bandwidth through Telstra and all isps in Australia charge for bandwidth in one way or another. $25 a month can get you 300 megs from an isp, but you don't get a static set of ip addresses or other things. The Telstra cable service which I can't get has a limit of 1gb per month, so does adsl. All bandwidth into australia is charged for wich you pay for either by time or by megabyte. isps who say you have no volume limits give you 200 hours per month simply turning the bandwidth into a time limit. Regards, Kerry. On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 02:29:58PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote: > Hi Kerry. Thanks for the clarification, I now understand where you are coming from. I would however say that if someone has posted a question that has already been answered, the reply could indicate where to obtain the more detailed answer to the previous post of the same question. I am not trying to criticize your way of thinking, I am just trying to offer up sollutions to the problem (s). Also, who is your isp? Because I have never heard of an isp that charges 20 cents per meg. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kerry Hoath <kerry@gotss.net> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:34 AM > Subject: Re: flame wars? > > -- Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or kerry@gotss.spice.net.au ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Kerry Hoath ` Igor Gueths @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Igor Gueths ` gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? Toby Fisher ` Toby Fisher 2 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Since you're a gnu/linux veteran, at the risk of starting a distro war, may I ask if you have a favorate distro? If so, which one and why. Thanks. Greg On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 07:34:46PM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote: > I don't think any particular user is a lamer or a looser or any other demeaning > term. > I do have a problem when a user asks a question that I have allready > answered in a message to them. > If you don't understand something ask for clarification, and if at first you don't understand > a message I have sent answering your question, stash it away since > you may get a piece of knowledge that will clear things up. > I agree; list trafic is low on this list, and if it were not; > I would unsubscribe since I pay per megabyte received at 20.9 cents per meg. > I do remember when I was new to Linux, although when I got involved > the only distribution available was sls and you build everything from > source once you had core binaries. These were the days of kernel 0.99p4 > which had no networking code in it by default and no sound driver. > As a result; I am used to doing things the hard way, > and in some cases the slow way. Things have definitely become easier > however there is still a lot to learn for the new user. > If terms are confusing, try http://www.whatis.com since they have both a simple and complex > definition of a lot of things that suits the novice and expert alike. > Remember, there are list archives, and although this can be tedious often they may > contain answers to problems that have allready been covered on the list. > This does not mean you are not free to re-ask a question, but it can save time > if the answer is easy to find. > > Regards, Kerry. > On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:16:56PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote: > > Yeah I might do that. But he might think I am a lamer or something. But I don't think that lamers understand C too well. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:05 PM > > Subject: flame wars? > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Igor, you're right for the most part. think maybe you need to write > > > privately to Kerry and find out why he is miffed with you. <smile> > > > No reason for flame wars. > > > > > > I will state again, that if you don't know what you're looking for in > > > docs, it doesn't do you a bit of good to look for it. 'rmuser' is not > > > 'userdel', and the second command can not be found unless you know it > > > exists. I suspect too, that the reference in the documentation is to > > > deleting users rather than removing them, hence the stumbling block. > > > I repeat, if you look on linuxdoc for 'skuzzy', you won't find it. If > > > you look for SCSI, you'll find documentation galore. > > > > > > No worries, think there's just been a misunderstanding. > > > > > > Ann P. > > > > > > -- > > > Ann K. Parsons > > > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > > > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > > > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > -- > Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or kerry@gotss.spice.net.au > ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` gnu/linux distros, was: " Gregory Nowak @ ` Igor Gueths ` Alex Snow ` gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? Toby Fisher 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Igor Gueths @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Greg. I don't have a favorite distro, because the only one I have used thus far is Debian. However, I can say that Debian has an awesome package manager! I may try Redhat and/or slackware in the future just to see how they work. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory Nowak <gnowak1@uic.edu> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? > Since you're a gnu/linux veteran, at the risk of starting a distro war, may I ask if you have a favorate distro? If so, which one and why. Thanks. > Greg > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 07:34:46PM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote: > > I don't think any particular user is a lamer or a looser or any other demeaning > > term. > > I do have a problem when a user asks a question that I have allready > > answered in a message to them. > > If you don't understand something ask for clarification, and if at first you don't understand > > a message I have sent answering your question, stash it away since > > you may get a piece of knowledge that will clear things up. > > I agree; list trafic is low on this list, and if it were not; > > I would unsubscribe since I pay per megabyte received at 20.9 cents per meg. > > I do remember when I was new to Linux, although when I got involved > > the only distribution available was sls and you build everything from > > source once you had core binaries. These were the days of kernel 0.99p4 > > which had no networking code in it by default and no sound driver. > > As a result; I am used to doing things the hard way, > > and in some cases the slow way. Things have definitely become easier > > however there is still a lot to learn for the new user. > > If terms are confusing, try http://www.whatis.com since they have both a simple and complex > > definition of a lot of things that suits the novice and expert alike. > > Remember, there are list archives, and although this can be tedious often they may > > contain answers to problems that have allready been covered on the list. > > This does not mean you are not free to re-ask a question, but it can save time > > if the answer is easy to find. > > > > Regards, Kerry. > > On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:16:56PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote: > > > Yeah I might do that. But he might think I am a lamer or something. But I don't think that lamers understand C too well. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:05 PM > > > Subject: flame wars? > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Igor, you're right for the most part. think maybe you need to write > > > > privately to Kerry and find out why he is miffed with you. <smile> > > > > No reason for flame wars. > > > > > > > > I will state again, that if you don't know what you're looking for in > > > > docs, it doesn't do you a bit of good to look for it. 'rmuser' is not > > > > 'userdel', and the second command can not be found unless you know it > > > > exists. I suspect too, that the reference in the documentation is to > > > > deleting users rather than removing them, hence the stumbling block. > > > > I repeat, if you look on linuxdoc for 'skuzzy', you won't find it. If > > > > you look for SCSI, you'll find documentation galore. > > > > > > > > No worries, think there's just been a misunderstanding. > > > > > > > > Ann P. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ann K. Parsons > > > > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > > > > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > > > > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > -- > > Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or kerry@gotss.spice.net.au > > ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Igor Gueths @ ` Alex Snow ` Georgina Joyce ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup My linux box isn't up yet, but I already have a favorite: debian. It only takes up 1 cd, has the lowest minimum requirements I know. I will also use slackware (zipspeak) temperarily until I can get a 500 meg hd for the 486 I'm going to put linux on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@yahoo.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 4:13 PM Subject: Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? Hi Greg. I don't have a favorite distro, because the only one I have used thus far is Debian. However, I can say that Debian has an awesome package manager! I may try Redhat and/or slackware in the future just to see how they work. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory Nowak <gnowak1@uic.edu> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? > Since you're a gnu/linux veteran, at the risk of starting a distro war, may I ask if you have a favorate distro? If so, which one and why. Thanks. > Greg > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 07:34:46PM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote: > > I don't think any particular user is a lamer or a looser or any other demeaning > > term. > > I do have a problem when a user asks a question that I have allready > > answered in a message to them. > > If you don't understand something ask for clarification, and if at first you don't understand > > a message I have sent answering your question, stash it away since > > you may get a piece of knowledge that will clear things up. > > I agree; list trafic is low on this list, and if it were not; > > I would unsubscribe since I pay per megabyte received at 20.9 cents per meg. > > I do remember when I was new to Linux, although when I got involved > > the only distribution available was sls and you build everything from > > source once you had core binaries. These were the days of kernel 0.99p4 > > which had no networking code in it by default and no sound driver. > > As a result; I am used to doing things the hard way, > > and in some cases the slow way. Things have definitely become easier > > however there is still a lot to learn for the new user. > > If terms are confusing, try http://www.whatis.com since they have both a simple and complex > > definition of a lot of things that suits the novice and expert alike. > > Remember, there are list archives, and although this can be tedious often they may > > contain answers to problems that have allready been covered on the list. > > This does not mean you are not free to re-ask a question, but it can save time > > if the answer is easy to find. > > > > Regards, Kerry. > > On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:16:56PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote: > > > Yeah I might do that. But he might think I am a lamer or something. But I don't think that lamers understand C too well. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:05 PM > > > Subject: flame wars? > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Igor, you're right for the most part. think maybe you need to write > > > > privately to Kerry and find out why he is miffed with you. <smile> > > > > No reason for flame wars. > > > > > > > > I will state again, that if you don't know what you're looking for in > > > > docs, it doesn't do you a bit of good to look for it. 'rmuser' is not > > > > 'userdel', and the second command can not be found unless you know it > > > > exists. I suspect too, that the reference in the documentation is to > > > > deleting users rather than removing them, hence the stumbling block. > > > > I repeat, if you look on linuxdoc for 'skuzzy', you won't find it. If > > > > you look for SCSI, you'll find documentation galore. > > > > > > > > No worries, think there's just been a misunderstanding. > > > > > > > > Ann P. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ann K. Parsons > > > > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > > > > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > > > > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > -- > > Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or kerry@gotss.spice.net.au > > ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Alex Snow @ ` Georgina Joyce ` Geoff Shang ` Toby Fisher ` isspeakup list not working? randy turner 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Don't get me wrong because I love Debian. I use it and won't go back to Slackware but it is Slackware that comes on well, sort of on 1 cd. If you don't have an internet connection or the hardware, you'll need all 3 cd's. -----Original Message----- From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Alex Snow Sent: 29 March 2002 23:28 To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Subject: Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? My linux box isn't up yet, but I already have a favorite: debian. It only takes up 1 cd, has the lowest minimum requirements I know. I will also use slackware (zipspeak) temperarily until I can get a 500 meg hd for the 486 I'm going to put linux on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@yahoo.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 4:13 PM Subject: Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? Hi Greg. I don't have a favorite distro, because the only one I have used thus far is Debian. However, I can say that Debian has an awesome package manager! I may try Redhat and/or slackware in the future just to see how they work. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gregory Nowak <gnowak1@uic.edu> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 3:42 PM Subject: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? > Since you're a gnu/linux veteran, at the risk of starting a distro war, may I ask if you have a favorate distro? If so, which one and why. Thanks. > Greg > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 07:34:46PM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote: > > I don't think any particular user is a lamer or a looser or any other demeaning > > term. > > I do have a problem when a user asks a question that I have allready > > answered in a message to them. > > If you don't understand something ask for clarification, and if at first you don't understand > > a message I have sent answering your question, stash it away since > > you may get a piece of knowledge that will clear things up. > > I agree; list trafic is low on this list, and if it were not; > > I would unsubscribe since I pay per megabyte received at 20.9 cents per meg. > > I do remember when I was new to Linux, although when I got involved > > the only distribution available was sls and you build everything from > > source once you had core binaries. These were the days of kernel 0.99p4 > > which had no networking code in it by default and no sound driver. > > As a result; I am used to doing things the hard way, > > and in some cases the slow way. Things have definitely become easier > > however there is still a lot to learn for the new user. > > If terms are confusing, try http://www.whatis.com since they have both a simple and complex > > definition of a lot of things that suits the novice and expert alike. > > Remember, there are list archives, and although this can be tedious often they may > > contain answers to problems that have allready been covered on the list. > > This does not mean you are not free to re-ask a question, but it can save time > > if the answer is easy to find. > > > > Regards, Kerry. > > On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:16:56PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote: > > > Yeah I might do that. But he might think I am a lamer or something. But I don't think that lamers understand C too well. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:05 PM > > > Subject: flame wars? > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Igor, you're right for the most part. think maybe you need to write > > > > privately to Kerry and find out why he is miffed with you. <smile> > > > > No reason for flame wars. > > > > > > > > I will state again, that if you don't know what you're looking for in > > > > docs, it doesn't do you a bit of good to look for it. 'rmuser' is not > > > > 'userdel', and the second command can not be found unless you know it > > > > exists. I suspect too, that the reference in the documentation is to > > > > deleting users rather than removing them, hence the stumbling block. > > > > I repeat, if you look on linuxdoc for 'skuzzy', you won't find it. If > > > > you look for SCSI, you'll find documentation galore. > > > > > > > > No worries, think there's just been a misunderstanding. > > > > > > > > Ann P. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ann K. Parsons > > > > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > > > > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > > > > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > -- > > Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or kerry@gotss.spice.net.au > > ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Georgina Joyce @ ` Geoff Shang ` Georgina Joyce 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Geoff Shang @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi: You don't need all 3 debian CD's. the most commonly used programs and such are on the first disk, so you can cope quite well without the rest. Geoff. -- Geoff Shang <gshang@uq.net.au> ICQ number 43634701 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Geoff Shang @ ` Georgina Joyce 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi With respect you do. Yes like with any distribution Debian attempt to put the most popular programs on the first disk. But it is a bit of a gamble whether all the applications and utilities you want are on the first CD. As I've just had to reinstall and couldn't get my internet connection configured, I had to use CD's. I can't remember but it was readline and or libncurses5-dev that it prompts for the third CD. There was one occasion when it wanted the second CD but I can't remember what that was for. I'm also sure that the installation of Emacs20 also required other CD's. As I said, if you haven't got a useable internet connection, you'll need all three CD's. I also come across messages on one of the many lists discussing the necessity of all the disks which I thought the subject was something like "You don't need the third disk" but after a couple of searches I can't find it. All the references are towards a set of CD's and there's not an entry in the Debian CD FAQ supporting your claim. Debian is about giving the user choice and the package comes on 3 CD's that you will need unless from the first CD you can get up and running with an internet connection to download the packages you require. http://www.debian.org/intro/about Gena -----Original Message----- From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Geoff Shang Sent: 30 March 2002 02:42 To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Subject: RE: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? Hi: You don't need all 3 debian CD's. the most commonly used programs and such are on the first disk, so you can cope quite well without the rest. Geoff. -- Geoff Shang <gshang@uq.net.au> ICQ number 43634701 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Alex Snow ` Georgina Joyce @ ` Toby Fisher ` Alex Snow ` isspeakup list not working? randy turner 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Alex Snow wrote: > My linux box isn't up yet, but I already have a favorite: debian. It only > takes up 1 cd, has the lowest minimum requirements I know. I will also use > slackware (zipspeak) temperarily until I can get a 500 meg hd for the 486 > I'm going to put linux on. Slackare also takes up 1 cd, unless you want all the sources, the cd-based file system image, and all the extra sunsite goodies. Also, suggest you read lowmem.txt in the root of the Slackware linux cd, although it says there are no garantees, Linux can still come up with 4 mb of ram, I've tried it. Also, of course, I'm pretty sure that Slackware is the oldest distro around. Cheers. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Toby Fisher @ ` Alex Snow ` Toby Fisher 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Think slackware will run on a 486 sx with 16 mb ram and a 300 gig hd? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Fisher" <toby_fisher@bigfoot.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 11:41 AM Subject: Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? > On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Alex Snow wrote: > > > My linux box isn't up yet, but I already have a favorite: debian. It only > > takes up 1 cd, has the lowest minimum requirements I know. I will also use > > slackware (zipspeak) temperarily until I can get a 500 meg hd for the 486 > > I'm going to put linux on. > > Slackare also takes up 1 cd, unless you want all the sources, the cd-based > file system image, and all the extra sunsite goodies. Also, suggest you > read lowmem.txt in the root of the Slackware linux cd, although it says > there are no garantees, Linux can still come up with 4 mb of ram, I've > tried it. > > Also, of course, I'm pretty sure that Slackware is the oldest distro > around. > > Cheers. > > -- > Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk > Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 > ICQ: #61744808 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Alex Snow @ ` Toby Fisher ` Alex Snow 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Alex Snow wrote: > Think slackware will run on a 486 sx with 16 mb ram and a 300 gig hd? Actually, I'm not sure about that. *big grin* Don't kno of a 486SX that'll accept a drive that big. *smile* Cheers. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` Toby Fisher @ ` Alex Snow 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Sorry! I ment 300 megs. Long day. (grin) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Fisher" <toby_fisher@bigfoot.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:07 AM Subject: Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Alex Snow wrote: > > > Think slackware will run on a 486 sx with 16 mb ram and a 300 gig hd? > > Actually, I'm not sure about that. *big grin* > Don't kno of a 486SX that'll accept a drive that big. *smile* > > Cheers. > > -- > Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk > Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 > ICQ: #61744808 > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. > See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* isspeakup list not working? ` Alex Snow ` Georgina Joyce ` Toby Fisher @ ` randy turner ` Kirk Reiser 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: randy turner @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup could a few of you write me direct to see if i am getting out to the speakup mailing list? thanks in advance randy ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: isspeakup list not working? ` isspeakup list not working? randy turner @ ` Kirk Reiser 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Kirk Reiser @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Folks: As many of you realized the speakup list as well as all our other lists were not working from about 2:00am yesterday until last night. It was a bad email address which wouldn't resolve. I finally got it fixed last night about 7:30pm. Sorry for the delay. Kirk -- Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario phone: (519) 661-3061 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? ` gnu/linux distros, was: " Gregory Nowak ` Igor Gueths @ ` Toby Fisher 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote: > Since you're a gnu/linux veteran, at the risk of starting a distro > war, may I ask if you have a favorate distro? If so, which one and > why. Thanks. Well, I've used Slackare and Redhat. My personal favourite is Slackware, every time, because I find it easier to configure. Now I know that people will say that Redhat as Linuxconf etc, but in terms of manipulating the startup scripts etc by hand, Slackware is the one. Also, linuxconf has had its security problems and I don't like tools like that that edcit a load of files and I can't necessarily quickly and easily work out what they're doing. However, I do recognise that Redhat has its place. For example, I do believe that if I were starting from scratch again, I would possibly go for Redhat, because of its ease of use for the beginner. However, Redhat has also had, in its past several library compatibility issues, particularly 5.0 and 5.1. Redhat is also useful in a corporate environment because it's probably easier to support on a large-scale basis. However, if you like to play like I do, then Slackware is the best choice imho. Cheers. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: flame wars? ` Kerry Hoath ` Igor Gueths ` gnu/linux distros, was: " Gregory Nowak @ ` Toby Fisher 2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Kerry Hoath wrote: > If you don't understand something ask for clarification, and if at first you don't understand > a message I have sent answering your question, stash it away since > you may get a piece of knowledge that will clear things up. Yes, I whole-heartedly agree with this, which is also why message subjects are most important to aid this process. Personally, I keep my own list archive, in the event that I break my ability to get online. *grin* Also, as I've stated in another way elsewhere, if at all possible, I prefer to aks, not "Ho can I", but "Where can I find out", since I then have a ne possible source of information hen I do get stuck, particularly ith the vagueries that can occur with a dial-up connection, not to mention a Winmodem. *grin* Hope this has helped anyway, and sorry if I'm somewhat late on this. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: flame wars? flame wars? Igor Gueths ` Ann Parsons @ ` Georgina Joyce ` Shaun Oliver 2 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Then there's the language differences. Give me an English psychological report and I'll probably be able to translate it into basic language. Give me an American Computer guide and I'm banging my head against the wall within minutes. Perhaps, it's that I'm thick, who cares? I still have the right to use a computer, GNU/Linux and this list. Until Kirk has had enough of me that is. <Grin> The only stupid question is that is not uttered. BTW: I've used that syntax deliberately. Love and peace to all Gena -----Original Message----- From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Igor Gueths Sent: 28 March 2002 20:42 To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Subject: flame wars? Hi all. I am writing this to the entire list because someone is agreeing with Kerry on the following fact (s), and I hope that things can get straightened out. Kerry brought up a rather interesting point today and yesterday. Her point was that she was trying to tell me, and possibly others on the list that people weren't looking through documentation before posting to the list. I just would like to state the fact that in terms of me, I don't use the list as a first resort. In my example yesterday about the user accounts, I didn't find a reference to userdel in the adduser man page. So I just thought that I would ask about it. She also brought up the fact that she thought that list traffic would be minimized if people stopped asking questions they could otherwise find in man pages and/or other documentation. I can tell you right now that this list doesn't even have a fraction of the traffic that a list like Debian-user or Debian-bugs has. I would estimate that they get about 100 messages or more per hour through these two lists. I was subscribed to Debian-user for some time, and I got back a couple of days later to check my mail and I had about 400 messages. So as far as I am concerned, list traffic is not an issue here. Also, I think that any question should be able to be asked and answered. For example, I read about the problems that Cheryl was having, and I decided to reply. I like to be helpfull, and to be able to share my knolige with people so that I can help them out. I can't say that this is a definite exactly, but in my opinion, Kerry seems to think otherwise. I don't know if she is trying to single me out here because of what I asked yesterday. Also, someone replied and added that they agreed with her about the stupid question thing. In other words, she stated that people should read docs and use the list as a last resort. I think that this is all well and true, but then she also said that users should be turned away from a list if some people think that the user is using the list as a first resort instead of reading documentation? I disagree with the last point. And I think that Anne will agree with me on this. Even if the poster hasn't read the docs before asking his/her question, reply to the message with an answer, and then tell them where they can get more information. This way, they learn where the documentation for their answer is available, plus they might find other useful information. Also, refrane from flaming posters just because they asked a question on a mailing list which in someone's opinion, the answer is readily available in a document. What I'm trying to say from all this is that we shouldn't start flaming users just because they ask "stupid" questions. Also, I want to make sure that I am not a target of such a flame. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: flame wars? flame wars? Igor Gueths ` Ann Parsons ` Georgina Joyce @ ` Shaun Oliver ` Igor Gueths 2 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Shaun Oliver @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Igor Gueths wrote: > Hi all. I am writing this to the entire list because someone is agreeing with Kerry on the following fact (s), and I hope that things can get straightened out. > > Kerry brought up a rather interesting point today and yesterday. Her point was that she was trying to tell me, and possibly others on the list that people weren't looking through documentation before posting to the list. I just would like to state the fact that in terms of me, I don't use the list as a first resort. In my example yesterday about the user accounts, I didn't find a reference to userdel in the adduser man page. So I just thought that I would ask about it. She also brought up the fact that she thought that list traffic would be minimized if people stopped asking questions they could otherwise find in man pages and/or other documentation. I can tell you right now that this list doesn't even have a fraction of the traffic that a list like Debian-user or Debian-bugs has. I would estimate that they get about 100 messages or more per hour through these two lists. I was subscribed to Debian-user for some time, and I got back a couple of days later to check my mail and I had about 400 messages. So as far as I am concerned, list traffic is not an issue here. Also, I think that any question should be able to be asked and answered. For example, I read about the problems that Cheryl was having, and I decided to reply. I like to be helpfull, and to be able to share my knolige with people so that I can help them out. I can't say that this is a definite exactly, but in my opinion, Kerry seems to think otherwise. I don't know if she is trying to single me out here because of what I asked yesterday. Also, someone replied and added that they agreed with her about the stupid question thing. In other words, she stated that people should read docs and use the list as a last resort. I think that this is all well and true, but then she also said that users should be turned away from a list if some people think that the user is using the list as a first resort instead of reading documentation? I disagree with the last point. And I think that Anne will agree with me on this. Even if the poster hasn't read the docs before asking his/her question, reply to the message with an answer, and then tell them where they can get more information. This way, they learn where the documentation for their answer is available, plus they might find other useful information. Also, refrane from flaming posters just because they asked a question on a mailing list which in someone's opinion, the answer is readily available in a document. What I'm trying to say from all this is that we shouldn't start flaming users just because they ask "stupid" questions. Also, I want to make sure that I am not a target of such a flame. Woo there!. first of all kery is all male. How do I know this? He's an old friend from way back. yes I realize it can be confusing and hard to be able to pick gender on here. But bear that in mind. > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- Shaun If little else, the brain is an educational toy. -- Tom Robbins EMAIL: shauno@goanna.net.au ICQ: 76958435 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: flame wars? ` Shaun Oliver @ ` Igor Gueths 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Igor Gueths @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Shaun. Yeah my mistake. Sorry about that one. ----- Original Message ----- From: Shaun Oliver <shauno@goanna.net.au> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:27 AM Subject: Re: flame wars? On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Igor Gueths wrote: > Hi all. I am writing this to the entire list because someone is agreeing with Kerry on the following fact (s), and I hope that things can get straightened out. > > Kerry brought up a rather interesting point today and yesterday. Her point was that she was trying to tell me, and possibly others on the list that people weren't looking through documentation before posting to the list. I just would like to state the fact that in terms of me, I don't use the list as a first resort. In my example yesterday about the user accounts, I didn't find a reference to userdel in the adduser man page. So I just thought that I would ask about it. She also brought up the fact that she thought that list traffic would be minimized if people stopped asking questions they could otherwise find in man pages and/or other documentation. I can tell you right now that this list doesn't even have a fraction of the traffic that a list like Debian-user or Debian-bugs has. I would estimate that they get about 100 messages or more per hour through these two lists. I was subscribed to Debian-user for some time, and I got back a couple of days later to check my mail and I had about 400 messages. So as far as I am concerned, list traffic is not an issue here. Also, I think that any question should be able to be asked and answered. For example, I read about the problems that Cheryl was having, and I decided to reply. I like to be helpfull, and to be able to share my knolige with people so that I can help them out. I can't say that this is a definite exactly, but in my opinion, Kerry seems to think otherwise. I don't know if she is trying to single me out here because of what I asked yesterday. Also, someone replied and added that they agreed with her about the stupid question thing. In other words, she stated that people should read docs and use the list as a last resort. I think that this is all well and true, but then she also said that users should be turned away from a list if some people think that the user is using the list as a first resort instead of reading documentation? I disagree with the last point. And I think that Anne will agree with me on this. Even if the poster hasn't read the docs before asking his/her question, reply to the message with an answer, and then tell them where they can get more information. This way, they learn where the documentation for their answer is available, plus they might find other useful information. Also, refrane from flaming posters just because they asked a question on a mailing list which in someone's opinion, the answer is readily available in a document. What I'm trying to say from all this is that we shouldn't start flaming users just because they ask "stupid" questions. Also, I want to make sure that I am not a target of such a flame. Woo there!. first of all kery is all male. How do I know this? He's an old friend from way back. yes I realize it can be confusing and hard to be able to pick gender on here. But bear that in mind. > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- Shaun If little else, the brain is an educational toy. -- Tom Robbins EMAIL: shauno@goanna.net.au ICQ: 76958435 _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
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flame wars? Igor Gueths
` Ann Parsons
` Igor Gueths
` Kerry Hoath
` Igor Gueths
` Kerry Hoath
` gnu/linux distros, was: " Gregory Nowak
` Igor Gueths
` Alex Snow
` Georgina Joyce
` Geoff Shang
` Georgina Joyce
` Toby Fisher
` Alex Snow
` Toby Fisher
` Alex Snow
` isspeakup list not working? randy turner
` Kirk Reiser
` gnu/linux distros, was: Re: flame wars? Toby Fisher
` Toby Fisher
` Georgina Joyce
` Shaun Oliver
` Igor Gueths
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