* [ot] Windows programming @ Shane ` Kerry Hoath ` Doug Sutherland 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Shane @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hey all, I have a Windows app I'd like to have a go at writing. Some here may be interested as well. It'd use the com0com project: http://com0com.sourceforge.net/ to emulate an accent SA or dectalk and pass the input of the serial port to sapi, basically enable softspeech via a virtual serial port. This could be assigned to vmware and Speakup would be able to use it as a hardware synth. Basically I want a self-contained laptop without having to hall around the Accent SA. Problem is, I'm used to programming under Linux where such an emulator would be trivial. Open a /dev/ttySx device, poll it, translate the input and call the speech functions. I'm just wondering what the simplest api to use under Windows would be for a Linux programmer without too much of a learning curve. I've looked at mfc and Windows c++ code and it looks like nothing I've ever encountered. I'm thinking a system like cygwin or minw32 would work but how complete is their emulation of serial ports (termios etc.) select/poll and do these unix like systems support the SAPI. Shane -- http://www.cm.nu/~shane/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [ot] Windows programming [ot] Windows programming Shane @ ` Kerry Hoath ` Doug Sutherland 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Kerry Hoath @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I'm sure your solution would be more complete however note that vmware can emulate a serial port that can be connected to a named pipe. This might illiminate a layer of complexity or add one. Sorry that isn't much help but it's something to think on. Regards, Kerry. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane" <shane-keyword-speakup.aca783@cm.nu> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 3:31 AM Subject: [ot] Windows programming > Hey all, > > I have a Windows app I'd like to have a go at writing. > Some here may be interested as well. It'd use the com0com > project: > http://com0com.sourceforge.net/ > > to emulate an accent SA or dectalk and pass the input of > the serial port to sapi, basically enable softspeech via a > virtual serial port. This could be assigned to vmware and > Speakup would be able to use it as a hardware synth. > Basically I want a self-contained laptop without having to > hall around the Accent SA. > > Problem is, I'm used to programming under Linux where such > an emulator would be trivial. Open a /dev/ttySx device, > poll it, translate the input and call the speech functions. > I'm just wondering what the simplest api to use under > Windows would be for a Linux programmer without too much of > a learning curve. I've looked at mfc and Windows c++ code > and it looks like nothing I've ever encountered. I'm > thinking a system like cygwin or minw32 would work but how > complete is their emulation of serial ports (termios etc.) > select/poll and do these unix like systems support the > SAPI. > > Shane > > -- > http://www.cm.nu/~shane/ > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [ot] Windows programming [ot] Windows programming Shane ` Kerry Hoath @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Gregory Nowak ` Steve Holmes 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. The simplest windows programming environment for a linux programmer is of course GNU C, which you have already mentioned. Cygwin is more full functioned than MinGW but more complex and has a few quirks that I really do not like, for example it's installation process is bizarre and annoying, the way it maps windows directories to unix naming is weird, the options for file types can be confusing, and I found that sometimes its impossible to remove all of cygwin. It creates some files that just cannot be deleted, I hate software that does that. On the other hand it's an impressive environment, you can almost have it look exactly like a linux machine.I have used Cygwin and MinGW and I have to say that MinGW was simple in the way I like it. I do not like complex development environments. I don't want to spend a week just to figure out how to do hello world. MinGW is faster to get actually programming with, and although limited in comparison, was just right for my needs. It has the win32 API: http://www.mingw.org/docs.shtml#win32api I did some win32 with this and I loved it because it's GNU and very straightforward. The Win32 API however is extremely complex and very annoying. Surprised? <g> Your battle will be more one of understanding the win32 API that one of tools. It can take quite a while to do the simplest of things with win32. I would recommend looking for some small tutorials, that's what I did and found a few that got me started. Find a getting started tutorial for MinGW and look for really simple win32 examples. I didn't do any win32 serial code but you can most likely find some examples on the net. I don't know anything about SAPI. -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [ot] Windows programming ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Steve Holmes 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Another option for a development environment is microsoft's windows services for unix: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=896C9688-601B-44F1-81A4-02878FF11778&displaylang=en If you want to use an ide, which uses mingw as the compiler, check out dev-c++: http://www.bloodshed.net/dev/devcpp.html It's fairly accessible with wineyes, a bit more so after I created a set file and key label dictionary for it. As for a win32 tutorial, I found: http://winprog.org/tutorial/ to be useful. Since we're discussing this on here, does anyone know of anything for c/c++ that would abstract the win32 api a bit more, so it wouldn't be such a chore to program for it, making it a bit easier to write win32 applications? Thanks. Greg On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 09:49:37PM -0500, Doug Sutherland wrote: > The simplest windows programming environment for a linux programmer > is of course GNU C, which you have already mentioned. Cygwin is more > full functioned than MinGW but more complex and has a few quirks that > I really do not like, for example it's installation process is bizarre and > annoying, the way it maps windows directories to unix naming is weird, > the options for file types can be confusing, and I found that sometimes > its impossible to remove all of cygwin. It creates some files that just > cannot be deleted, I hate software that does that. On the other hand > it's an impressive environment, you can almost have it look exactly > like a linux machine.I have used Cygwin and MinGW and I have to > say that MinGW was simple in the way I like it. I do not like complex > development environments. I don't want to spend a week just to > figure out how to do hello world. MinGW is faster to get actually > programming with, and although limited in comparison, was just > right for my needs. It has the win32 API: > > http://www.mingw.org/docs.shtml#win32api > > I did some win32 with this and I loved it because it's GNU and very > straightforward. The Win32 API however is extremely complex and > very annoying. Surprised? <g> Your battle will be more one of > understanding the win32 API that one of tools. It can take quite a > while to do the simplest of things with win32. I would recommend > looking for some small tutorials, that's what I did and found a few > that got me started. Find a getting started tutorial for MinGW and > look for really simple win32 examples. I didn't do any win32 serial > code but you can most likely find some examples on the net. > I don't know anything about SAPI. > > -- Doug > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGe0QF7s9z/XlyUyARAr9VAJ9Q4DhtxWl6bd6Qgxosh67tY8ztSACgxUEf 2I8gFT7o1+4dP96aW6Ro3Rw= =xtxk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [ot] Windows programming ` Doug Sutherland ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Steve Holmes ` Littlefield, tyler 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Steve Holmes @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I might give mingw a looky some time. I messed with cygwin a while back and I didn't mind the overall environment all that much but I hated the installer! I found the pick list to be completely inaccessible. I couldn't track the selection status of any of the list items within each package category. I sure didn't want to install every single package so when I had such a hard time picking packages, I finally gave up on it. I also wrote to the developers on the support list about the installer and the response was the program was so complex and intrenched that it would be nearly impossible to change it. So I am no longer interested in doing anything with cygwin. My only other experience with the windows API was with Visual Basic and the internal object browser. I found quite a bit of information in the help system within the browser. That would probably next to impossible to pull that info without the Microsoft development environments such as in Visual Studio. Perhaps the tutorials Greg mentions is a big help. -- HolmesGrown Solutions The best solutions for the best price! http://holmesgrown.ld.net/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [ot] Windows programming ` Steve Holmes @ ` Littlefield, tyler ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Littlefield, tyler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. The windows API is... weird. I went from windows API to linux, and it was a nice change. With windblows, you get to pass the size of everything, and it doesn't know how to take arguments by reference, or return something besides 0 or error most of the time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Holmes" <steve@holmesgrown.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [ot] Windows programming >I might give mingw a looky some time. I messed with cygwin a while > back and I didn't mind the overall environment all that much but I > hated the installer! I found the pick list to be completely > inaccessible. I couldn't track the selection status of any of the > list items within each package category. I sure didn't want to > install every single package so when I had such a hard time picking > packages, I finally gave up on it. I also wrote to the developers on > the support list about the installer and the response was the program > was so complex and intrenched that it would be nearly impossible to > change it. So I am no longer interested in doing anything with > cygwin. > > My only other experience with the windows API was with Visual Basic > and the internal object browser. I found quite a bit of information > in the help system within the browser. That would probably next to > impossible to pull that info without the Microsoft development > environments such as in Visual Studio. Perhaps the tutorials Greg > mentions is a big help. > -- > HolmesGrown Solutions > The best solutions for the best price! > http://holmesgrown.ld.net/ > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [ot] Windows programming ` Littlefield, tyler @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Littlefield, tyler ` Travis Siegel 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 How did you go about learning the windows api? Did you use tutorials, if so, then which ones? If you used books, did you get them, and scanned them yourself, or had someone scan them for you, did you get them on tape from rfbd/nls, or did you get them in braille, or electronically? Greg On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 11:04:10PM -0700, Littlefield, tyler wrote: > The windows API is... weird. > I went from windows API to linux, and it was a nice change. > With windblows, you get to pass the size of everything, and it doesn't know > how to take arguments by reference, or return something besides 0 or error > most of the time. > - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGe2q17s9z/XlyUyARAuSaAKCb80Dryp7dMRIyNpx/Jhv8SVzrdQCbBMC7 WpmtV/IePjBvWwslOKVeQis= =4/G0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [ot] Windows programming ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Littlefield, tyler [not found] ` <20070623200010.GA30877@cm.nu> ` Travis Siegel 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Littlefield, tyler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. winprog.net has a good tutorial. It dives in fast, and assumes knowledge of c/c++, which I would recommend someone reading lots of before they take a dive for windows API. After that, extensive searching on msdn, is what helps lots. You can get a list of data types, and while you don't have to remember them, after coding a bit, you will get to know the most widely used. HTH, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [ot] Windows programming > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > How did you go about learning the windows api? Did you use tutorials, > if so, then which ones? If you used books, did you get them, and > scanned them yourself, or had someone scan them for you, did you get > them on tape from rfbd/nls, or did you get them in braille, or > electronically? > > Greg > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 11:04:10PM -0700, Littlefield, tyler wrote: >> The windows API is... weird. >> I went from windows API to linux, and it was a nice change. >> With windblows, you get to pass the size of everything, and it doesn't >> know >> how to take arguments by reference, or return something besides 0 or >> error >> most of the time. >> > > - -- > web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org > gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc > skype: gregn1 > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) > > - -- > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFGe2q17s9z/XlyUyARAuSaAKCb80Dryp7dMRIyNpx/Jhv8SVzrdQCbBMC7 > WpmtV/IePjBvWwslOKVeQis= > =4/G0 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <20070623200010.GA30877@cm.nu>]
* Re: [ot] Windows programming [not found] ` <20070623200010.GA30877@cm.nu> @ ` Kerry Hoath 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Kerry Hoath @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. make your synth emulation table driven that way you can emulate a whole stack of synths like doubletalk dectalk porttalk and accent that should cover most things. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane" <shane-keyword-speakup.aca783@cm.nu> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 4:00 AM Subject: Re: [ot] Windows programming > On Fri, Jun 22, 2007 at 12:00:51AM -0700, Littlefield, tyler wrote: >> winprog.net has a good tutorial. >> It dives in fast, and assumes knowledge of c/c++, which I would recommend > > Exactly what I was looking for thanks. On another note, is > there programming info out there for the Dec Express? I > have the Accent SA manual so could emulate a good portion > of its codes. The SA manual is quite good about > documenting things but as the DEC is probably more widely > used, it might be supported by more software. > > S > > -- > http://www.cm.nu/~shane/ > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [ot] Windows programming ` Gregory Nowak ` Littlefield, tyler @ ` Travis Siegel 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Travis Siegel @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Actually, I'm very definitely *not* a fan of visual basic. I use powerbasic instead (http://www.powerbasic.com) It comes with a rather large subset of the windows api calls already converted to powerbasic includes, and I simply study those when I need to know what api is needed to do something. Also, in addition to having one large win32api.inc file, they also have broken it into smaller includes such as tcp/ip, comm, playback services, graphic manipulation, sapi speech, and more. It's really an excellent development environment, 100% accessible, and programs are considerably smaller than any visual basic program you'll ever see. Not to mention, everything you need for the execution of the program is compiled into the exe file, so there's no need to hope the folks have the proper dlls on their systems. And, they're still supporting, upgrading, and creating new versions of their tools. They even still sell powerbasic for dos. Now, how's that for support. In fact, pb for dos was just upgraded to version 4.0 (from 3.5) only a year or two back. On Jun 22, 2007, at 1:22 AM, Gregory Nowak wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > How did you go about learning the windows api? Did you use tutorials, > if so, then which ones? If you used books, did you get them, and > scanned them yourself, or had someone scan them for you, did you get > them on tape from rfbd/nls, or did you get them in braille, or > electronically? > > Greg > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 11:04:10PM -0700, Littlefield, tyler wrote: >> The windows API is... weird. >> I went from windows API to linux, and it was a nice change. >> With windblows, you get to pass the size of everything, and it >> doesn't know >> how to take arguments by reference, or return something besides 0 >> or error >> most of the time. >> > > - -- > web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org > gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc > skype: gregn1 > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) > > - -- > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFGe2q17s9z/XlyUyARAuSaAKCb80Dryp7dMRIyNpx/Jhv8SVzrdQCbBMC7 > WpmtV/IePjBvWwslOKVeQis= > =4/G0 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
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[ot] Windows programming Shane
` Kerry Hoath
` Doug Sutherland
` Gregory Nowak
` Steve Holmes
` Littlefield, tyler
` Gregory Nowak
` Littlefield, tyler
[not found] ` <20070623200010.GA30877@cm.nu>
` Kerry Hoath
` Travis Siegel
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