Re: list noise (was Re: FW: USA: Online book-sharing service for the blind borrows a page from Napster)

["Chris Peterson" <capeterson@visi.com>]

Make yourself look foolish by not reading my messages before you reply to
them.

Chris Peterson
_______________
The Space Report
Internet and satellite delivered news from space.
Visit our web site at www.TheSpaceReport.com




----- Original Message -----
From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: list noise (was Re: FW: USA: Online book-sharing service for
the blind borrows a page from Napster)


> Hmmm so now we have a new List Moderator I daresay?
>
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Chris Peterson wrote:
>
> > Is this a list about linux or a list about speakup?  If its a list about
> > Linux, I don't need it.  I was spacifically interested in learning about
> > speakup, and the other projects associated with it.  I thought this was
the
> > place to go for that.
> >
> > I thought this, because there are a number of other lists where this
> > discussion might be appropriate.  I've pasted in some info about them
incase
> > you weren't aware of them.
> > The BLINUX Mailing Lists
> > blinux-announce
> > Topic: announcements dealing with blind support under Linux (new
software,
> > conferences etc.).
> > Moderated list, no noise.
> > Low number of posts.
> > If you want to stay in contact with BLINUX.
> > blinux-develop
> > Topic: software development enabling the Linux user who is blind.
> >
> > This might be a place to go for a linux developer to write an unpack
util
> > for bookshare.
> >
> > Unmoderated list, currently really low traffic...
> >
> > blinux-list
> > Topic: themes which contain the words Linux. and blind. For details
please
> > read the
> >
> > This might be a good place for this discussion.
> >
> > blinux-FAQ.
> > Off topic: general Linux questions.
> > Unmoderated list, high traffic - high noise.
> > Postings to blinux-announce will be posted here.
> >
> > This might also be a good place for this discussion.
> >
> > I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but there are a lot of us who
> > receive hundreds, if not thousands, of e-mails every day and we need to
be
> > able to go through them quickly.  Thats why there isn't just a general
> > mailing list that the entire world is on.  It would be kaos.  This is
> > becoming kaos and I'm sure its not something Kirk has time to deal with
and
> > nobody is saying anything about it except me.
> >
> > Also, addressing the issue of starting a project with everybody in mind,
let
> > me tell you right now that it isn't possible.  For one thing, to please
> > everybody would mean that you'd never get off-the-ground.  What about
those
> > people who are using some other Unix-like OS such as FreeBSD?  What
about
> > those using dos?  Or a Braille N Speak?  Or an apple II?  Or a
Makintosh?
> > Or a Comodor 64?  Or an Amiga?  Or an Atari?  How about a Vax? (I do
that at
> > school once in a while)...  The list goes on for ever and ever.  Just
> > because you're vocal about Linux doesn't mean that it should be a
priority.
> > The fact is, though, that it appears to be a priority.  So, why are you
> > wining about it?  They're not trying to retrofit as you're referring to
it.
> > And, I get the distinct impression that you have very little knowledge
of
> > software development or web design.
> >
> > Btw, I've gone and read your web page and what I see there seems to
varify
> > this.  This isn't a big deal and it doesn't mean that you don't have
> > valuable input.  However, it does mean that there are things about the
> > process that you don't fully understand.  I'm trying to help to explain
some
> > of them to you so you might be able to restructure your input to be of
help
> > to those in charge of the project.
> >
> > This isn't the same as adding a wheelchair ramp to a building that
wasn't
> > designed to have one.  Personally, I know how that can fail badly.
Writing
> > software to support another OS isn't the same thing at all.  It could
be,
> > though, if someone without the right experience tried to do it.  You
might
> > get something like Word Perfect for Linux was.  That would be bad...  I
> > think that is probably why they're trying to be careful about getting it
> > done right.
> >
> > Regarding the web site.  Your assuming that the web site was
inaccessible
> > because it had a message about IE 5.5 was the wrong approach.  It
would've
> > been more helpful to ignore that message and determine if the site was
> > really accessible, or not.  Then you could go to the webmaster and
explain
> > why that message was wrong, or what you found to be broken so that
he/she
> > could fix the problem.  I see, though, that you didn't even try before
you
> > complained.  Why should someone give you any credibility if you don't
have
> > any evidence to support your case?
> >
> > I see that you're a teacher.  What is needed, here, is for you to teach
> > those involved how to make things better.  Just complaining with no
> > direction is not helpful to them.  It would be like a student constantly
> > saying "I don't get it", without explaining what they don't understand.
You
> > have to go through it over and over again, trying to figure out how to
> > explain it in a way that your student will understand.  This is
frustrating
> > for you and for the student.  In the sam way, this discussion is
frustrating
> > to me, and to the rest of the list that hasn't participated in it.
> >
> > So far, I've counted four participants in this thread.  Since I know
there
> > are more than four people on the list, I suggest that the discussion
might
> > not be appropriate here.  Still, I am not a moderator and have no
authority
> > to make you move.  Its just a suggestion.
> >
> > Now, let me explain some things about myself that may give me some
> > particular credibility, or not...  I am a college student.  I've spent a
> > great deal of time teaching myself how to learn.  For me, this means
> > learning to ask questions in a way that clearly explains how to teach a
> > sighted professor how to teach me.
> >
> > >From that statement, you may deduce that I am blind.  You would be
right.  I
> > can't see a darn thing, but this isn't a big deal.
> >
> > I have also acted as a teacher.  Every summer I work with a program
which
> > teaches students with visual impairments to use technology.  This
usually
> > involves Windows, but has involved Braille N Speaks, and other such
devices.
> > I hope, from what I learn here, to be able to teach my students that
Linux
> > can be an alternative.
> >
> > I'm a computer science major.  This means that I spend most of my life
> > programming.  Again, most of this is in Windows, but I'm slowly learning
> > about programming in Linux so I have the ability to work to make Linux
as
> > usable as Windows for all our every-day tasks.  Its a slow process,
because
> > Linux is different from anything I've delt with before.
> >
> > I'm rambling.  If you've gotten this far in my message, you're probably
sick
> > of me.  Well, I don't blame you.  I've spent a great deal of time on
this
> > all because I want to see that this discussion, if it must take up space
in
> > my inbox and I must exercise my delete finger on it, goes in a
constructive
> > direction.  I think that is what we all want, so lets try to make that
> > happen.  Also, lets try to minimize the noise that others have to hear
when
> > reading this list.  It makes me want to sumarily delete messages from
this
> > list, or unsubscribe, which I don't believe is any more constructive
than
> > the noise that clogs this list.
> >
> > Chris Peterson
> > _______________
> > The Space Report
> > Internet and satellite delivered news from space.
> > Visit our web site at www.TheSpaceReport.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: FW: USA: Online book-sharing service for the blind borrows
a
> > page from Napster
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I did that very thing, Mr. Petersen, and I believe that we may be
> > > getting somewhere.  If my complaints are too loud for you, I'm sorry.
> > > You see, I happen to believe strongly that no matter what one does to
> > > aid persons with disabilities, the primary directive should be
> > > Universal Access.  This means that when you start a project, you build
> > > it so that it is accessible to all from the get-go, not a project that
> > > needs to be retro-fitted.  Retro-fitting has been the way of
> > > making materials, buildings, transportation and everything else
> > > accessible.  It's time it stopped, frankly, stopped now!  We have to
> > > think in terms of *all* users, not just the fortunate few, all users,
> > > that includes every single person who might want to access whatever
> > > the heck it is.
> > >
> > > If I am disappointed in something, I say so.  I believe that Bookshare
> > > is making an effort to remedy the problem, and having the discussion
> > > on here is right because it involves access to something via Linux.
> > > <smile>  What better place to find programmers for Linux than on a
> > > Linux list?  What better place to find programmers for making
> > > something accessible than on a list devoted to accessibility of the
> > > Linux system to persons who are blind?
> > >
> > > Ann P.
> > >
> > > P.S.,  It may interest you to know that I thought Janina was writing
> > > to me privately last night.  That's how come I was so frank in my
> > > post.  <smile>  Seems my mail blooper started a whopping discussion,
> > > though.  So, I have continued it.
> > >
> > > A.P.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ann K. Parsons
> > > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
lost."
> > JRRT
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
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