* Having accessibility built in to a program!
@ jim grimsby
` Janina Sajka
` Sean McMahon
0 siblings, 2 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: jim grimsby @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speak Up Mailing List
Hi, I changed the subject of the last thread because we have now
straighed from the topic of web browsing.
Ok it is true that making things accessible is a narrow line and should
be done by experts for the most part. I do not think I would want a
programmer who has never worked with or met a blind person making my
screen reading software. On the other hand a programmer who does try to
insure that a program is accessible from the get go is going to be a
friend of mine. In some cases such has web browsing having built in
accessible features is a good thing. Lets take internet explorer on
windows. The screen reader provides access to this browser by hooking
in to the page object model of the browser and reading the source code
of the page and then taking control of the browser. This means you are
no longer using the browser to brows the web but the screen reader to
brows the web. The problem is when you have source code that causes the
object model not to behave in a manor the screen reader expects the hole
system crashes starting with the screen reader and the object model is a
core part of windows and so when it crashes the hole system reboots and
you have to wait tell your computer restarts and look at all the data
you have lost. If on the other hand the screen reader provides the
access you can avoid such problems. For example if you want to move to
a heading on the page just pressing a key will bring focus to it. This
will help every one not just blind users remember that most power users
who are sighted do not use a mouse to access information. They use the
keyboard just as we do. Another advantage is if this access was
provided in the said web browser witch ever screen reader you use would
not be an issue. The only issue is at this point how well does the
screen reader do at reading the info on the screen. Witch is always a
screen reader issue. Also programs that insure features are there that
will allow screen review programs to access the program are for the most
part beneficial as I explained in my last message on this subject.
Now the last point about people who can not here. No extra access is
needed do to the fact that the main means of reading a screen is with
the eye not the eres. A person with one hand or no hands need an
alternative input device. Programs that can interface with a said
device would be programs that have a lot of keyboard commands that could
be mapped to said device. So making it accessible on the one hand to
blind and deaf blind users witch by the way I am almost to the second
would benefit all users. Last but not least the spoken word is a
natural means of interfacing with people. It is also going to be come
the natural means of interfacing with the pc cell phone washer dryer and
so on. This means that programs that already have speech in mind will
be ahead when this inevitable transition accors.
I now think I am beating a dead hoarse we all have our own ways of
seeing things and that is why I am working hard at being a linux user
and getting away from being a windows user so that I can make my own way
of seeing things stick at least for my own clients.
Hth
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Having accessibility built in to a program!
Having accessibility built in to a program! jim grimsby
@ ` Janina Sajka
` Sean McMahon
1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
jim grimsby writes:
> Hi, I changed the subject of the last thread because we have now
> straighed from the topic of web browsing.
> Ok it is true that making things accessible is a narrow line and should
> be done by experts for the most part. I do not think I would want a
> programmer who has never worked with or met a blind person making my
> screen reading software. On the other hand a programmer who does try to
> insure that a program is accessible from the get go is going to be a
> friend of mine. In some cases such has web browsing having built in
> accessible features is a good thing.
Amen to that. You're right on the nose so far.
But, here's where you go wrong ...
> Lets take internet explorer on
> windows.
No thanks.
I mean this seriously. I don't mean to be trite or to blow you off in
saying this. The point is that the OSM, workaround architecture of
Windows is irrelevant. That's not how things work on Linux. You need to
recognize that much of the world you think you know is actually a
cultural bias you
learned as a result of the assumptions and procedures employed in that
particular environment.
Linux is not that environment, and Windows rules and assumptions do not
operate here.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Having accessibility built in to a program!
Having accessibility built in to a program! jim grimsby
` Janina Sajka
@ ` Sean McMahon
` Janina Sajka
1 sibling, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Sean McMahon @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Those who can't hear have different needs. That was her point I think. If you
have a generic good accessible framework, the assistive technology can tie into
it and make programs accessible to all not just you and me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@pacbell.net>
To: "Speak Up Mailing List" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:22 AM
Subject: Having accessibility built in to a program!
Hi, I changed the subject of the last thread because we have now
straighed from the topic of web browsing.
Ok it is true that making things accessible is a narrow line and should
be done by experts for the most part. I do not think I would want a
programmer who has never worked with or met a blind person making my
screen reading software. On the other hand a programmer who does try to
insure that a program is accessible from the get go is going to be a
friend of mine. In some cases such has web browsing having built in
accessible features is a good thing. Lets take internet explorer on
windows. The screen reader provides access to this browser by hooking
in to the page object model of the browser and reading the source code
of the page and then taking control of the browser. This means you are
no longer using the browser to brows the web but the screen reader to
brows the web. The problem is when you have source code that causes the
object model not to behave in a manor the screen reader expects the hole
system crashes starting with the screen reader and the object model is a
core part of windows and so when it crashes the hole system reboots and
you have to wait tell your computer restarts and look at all the data
you have lost. If on the other hand the screen reader provides the
access you can avoid such problems. For example if you want to move to
a heading on the page just pressing a key will bring focus to it. This
will help every one not just blind users remember that most power users
who are sighted do not use a mouse to access information. They use the
keyboard just as we do. Another advantage is if this access was
provided in the said web browser witch ever screen reader you use would
not be an issue. The only issue is at this point how well does the
screen reader do at reading the info on the screen. Witch is always a
screen reader issue. Also programs that insure features are there that
will allow screen review programs to access the program are for the most
part beneficial as I explained in my last message on this subject.
Now the last point about people who can not here. No extra access is
needed do to the fact that the main means of reading a screen is with
the eye not the eres. A person with one hand or no hands need an
alternative input device. Programs that can interface with a said
device would be programs that have a lot of keyboard commands that could
be mapped to said device. So making it accessible on the one hand to
blind and deaf blind users witch by the way I am almost to the second
would benefit all users. Last but not least the spoken word is a
natural means of interfacing with people. It is also going to be come
the natural means of interfacing with the pc cell phone washer dryer and
so on. This means that programs that already have speech in mind will
be ahead when this inevitable transition accors.
I now think I am beating a dead hoarse we all have our own ways of
seeing things and that is why I am working hard at being a linux user
and getting away from being a windows user so that I can make my own way
of seeing things stick at least for my own clients.
Hth
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread* Re: Having accessibility built in to a program!
` Sean McMahon
@ ` Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Sean McMahon, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Sean McMahon writes:
> Those who can't hear have different needs. That was her point I think. If you
> have a generic good accessible framework, the assistive technology can tie into
> it and make programs accessible to all not just you and me.
Precisely. To put it another way, you cannot say a application is
accessible because you've worked with the developer to adapt it so you
can use it. We must also be our neighbor's keepers.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jim grimsby" <jimgrims@pacbell.net>
> To: "Speak Up Mailing List" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:22 AM
> Subject: Having accessibility built in to a program!
>
>
> Hi, I changed the subject of the last thread because we have now
> straighed from the topic of web browsing.
> Ok it is true that making things accessible is a narrow line and should
> be done by experts for the most part. I do not think I would want a
> programmer who has never worked with or met a blind person making my
> screen reading software. On the other hand a programmer who does try to
> insure that a program is accessible from the get go is going to be a
> friend of mine. In some cases such has web browsing having built in
> accessible features is a good thing. Lets take internet explorer on
> windows. The screen reader provides access to this browser by hooking
> in to the page object model of the browser and reading the source code
> of the page and then taking control of the browser. This means you are
> no longer using the browser to brows the web but the screen reader to
> brows the web. The problem is when you have source code that causes the
> object model not to behave in a manor the screen reader expects the hole
> system crashes starting with the screen reader and the object model is a
> core part of windows and so when it crashes the hole system reboots and
> you have to wait tell your computer restarts and look at all the data
> you have lost. If on the other hand the screen reader provides the
> access you can avoid such problems. For example if you want to move to
> a heading on the page just pressing a key will bring focus to it. This
> will help every one not just blind users remember that most power users
> who are sighted do not use a mouse to access information. They use the
> keyboard just as we do. Another advantage is if this access was
> provided in the said web browser witch ever screen reader you use would
> not be an issue. The only issue is at this point how well does the
> screen reader do at reading the info on the screen. Witch is always a
> screen reader issue. Also programs that insure features are there that
> will allow screen review programs to access the program are for the most
> part beneficial as I explained in my last message on this subject.
> Now the last point about people who can not here. No extra access is
> needed do to the fact that the main means of reading a screen is with
> the eye not the eres. A person with one hand or no hands need an
> alternative input device. Programs that can interface with a said
> device would be programs that have a lot of keyboard commands that could
> be mapped to said device. So making it accessible on the one hand to
> blind and deaf blind users witch by the way I am almost to the second
> would benefit all users. Last but not least the spoken word is a
> natural means of interfacing with people. It is also going to be come
> the natural means of interfacing with the pc cell phone washer dryer and
> so on. This means that programs that already have speech in mind will
> be ahead when this inevitable transition accors.
> I now think I am beating a dead hoarse we all have our own ways of
> seeing things and that is why I am working hard at being a linux user
> and getting away from being a windows user so that I can make my own way
> of seeing things stick at least for my own clients.
> Hth
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
--
Janina Sajka Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Chair, Accessibility Workgroup Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org http://a11y.org
If Linux can't solve your computing problem, you need a different problem.
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Having accessibility built in to a program! jim grimsby
` Janina Sajka
` Sean McMahon
` Janina Sajka
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