* writing screenreader friendly software
@ Peter Toneby
` John J. Boyer
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Peter Toneby @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: blinux-list
Hello
I'm currently working on a (to be free) player for Daisy-books, now
I've got some of the basic dataparsing working and want to move onto
the UI but I'm not sure how to make it so it fits screenreaders.
My primary concern are braille displays, because according to a friend
of mine they can't show bold, underline or any other kind of
charactermodifications.
My questions about this are:
1. How should I design the UI? (see below for my thoughts)
2. What library should I use to write it? are some better than others?
3. Are there any special considerations I should take to make things
work with both braille displays and speech synthesizers?
Daisy is an open standard based on standard fileformats such as xhtml
(http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/), smil (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-smil)
and mp3.
The layout of the book is pretty much like a normal printed book, there
is a table of contents (ToC), from this ToC links lead to .smil-files
which in turn points to the exect (1/100th of s exact) point in the
audiostream to play, these .smil-files also points where in the text of
the book the narrator reads.
And now my thoughts on the UI-issue (only for the ToC).
I think that a lynx-like UI is the best to use for the ToC, but because
braille displays can not show bold text I need to show on which line
there are 1 link and where there are >1 links. The ToC is built from
<hX>-tags and <span>-tags (containing links). The header-tags are
required to be sections (they should follow the printed book as closley
as possible) and the span-tags contains links to pages.
So to diffrentiate between these I'm thinking about reserving the 2
leftmost columns to show if the line is a heading or contains pages.
I was thinking about using '*' for headings and '>' for pages, but I
don't know how much these differs on different displays (I'm sighted and
do not have easy access to any braille-displays). So it would look
something like this:
* 15. Treatment of Early Trauma and Insight
> 217 218 219 220
So now, flame on and give me some nice input on this and you might have
a free, open source Daisy-player "soon" (this is a for fun, sparetime
project, so sometimes it goes unattended for a few weeks).
/Peter Toneby
--
Alpha Test Version: Too buggy to be released to the paying public.
Beta Test Version: Still too buggy to be released.
Release Version: Alternate pronunciation of "Beta Test Version".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: writing screenreader friendly software writing screenreader friendly software Peter Toneby @ ` John J. Boyer ` Peter Toneby ` Reinhard Stebner ` Sebastien Sable 2 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: John J. Boyer @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Peter, Jaws has ways of showing various types of highlighting, including bold and underline, by using dots 7 and 8 in various combinations on an 8-dot Braille display. Usually, highlighted text is indicated by turning on both dats 7 and 8. I have not tried other options, since this has been sufficient. So if I am reading a Web page and come on words that have dots 7 and 8 raised, I know this is probably a link. Jawws also puts the word "link" or "graphic" on the display. John Computers to Help People, Inc. http://www.chpi.org 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Toneby" <woormie@acc.umu.se> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 13:23 Subject: writing screenreader friendly software > Hello > > I'm currently working on a (to be free) player for Daisy-books, now > I've got some of the basic dataparsing working and want to move onto > the UI but I'm not sure how to make it so it fits screenreaders. > > My primary concern are braille displays, because according to a friend > of mine they can't show bold, underline or any other kind of > charactermodifications. > > My questions about this are: > 1. How should I design the UI? (see below for my thoughts) > 2. What library should I use to write it? are some better than others? > 3. Are there any special considerations I should take to make things > work with both braille displays and speech synthesizers? > > Daisy is an open standard based on standard fileformats such as xhtml > (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/), smil (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-smil) > and mp3. > > The layout of the book is pretty much like a normal printed book, there > is a table of contents (ToC), from this ToC links lead to .smil-files > which in turn points to the exect (1/100th of s exact) point in the > audiostream to play, these .smil-files also points where in the text of > the book the narrator reads. > > And now my thoughts on the UI-issue (only for the ToC). > I think that a lynx-like UI is the best to use for the ToC, but because > braille displays can not show bold text I need to show on which line > there are 1 link and where there are >1 links. The ToC is built from > <hX>-tags and <span>-tags (containing links). The header-tags are > required to be sections (they should follow the printed book as closley > as possible) and the span-tags contains links to pages. > > So to diffrentiate between these I'm thinking about reserving the 2 > leftmost columns to show if the line is a heading or contains pages. > I was thinking about using '*' for headings and '>' for pages, but I > don't know how much these differs on different displays (I'm sighted and > do not have easy access to any braille-displays). So it would look > something like this: > * 15. Treatment of Early Trauma and Insight > > 217 218 219 220 > > So now, flame on and give me some nice input on this and you might have > a free, open source Daisy-player "soon" (this is a for fun, sparetime > project, so sometimes it goes unattended for a few weeks). > > /Peter Toneby > -- > Alpha Test Version: Too buggy to be released to the paying public. > Beta Test Version: Still too buggy to be released. > Release Version: Alternate pronunciation of "Beta Test Version". > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: writing screenreader friendly software ` John J. Boyer @ ` Peter Toneby ` Dave Csercsics 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Peter Toneby @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list John, Actually this is not the problem since everything in the table of contents will be links (otherwise is the book not standards compliant), so just pointing out headline/pages should be enough (even if it mostly is quite obvious which is which). /Peter On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:33:44PM -0400, John J. Boyer wrote: > Peter, > Jaws has ways of showing various types of highlighting, including bold and > underline, by using dots 7 and 8 in various combinations on an 8-dot Braille > display. Usually, highlighted text is indicated by turning on both dats 7 > and 8. I have not tried other options, since this has been sufficient. So if > I am reading a Web page and come on words that have dots 7 and 8 raised, I > know this is probably a link. Jawws also puts the word "link" or "graphic" > on the display. > John > > Computers to Help People, Inc. > http://www.chpi.org > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Toneby" <woormie@acc.umu.se> > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 13:23 > Subject: writing screenreader friendly software > > > > Hello > > > > I'm currently working on a (to be free) player for Daisy-books, now > > I've got some of the basic dataparsing working and want to move onto > > the UI but I'm not sure how to make it so it fits screenreaders. > > > > My primary concern are braille displays, because according to a friend > > of mine they can't show bold, underline or any other kind of > > charactermodifications. > > > > My questions about this are: > > 1. How should I design the UI? (see below for my thoughts) > > 2. What library should I use to write it? are some better than others? > > 3. Are there any special considerations I should take to make things > > work with both braille displays and speech synthesizers? > > > > Daisy is an open standard based on standard fileformats such as xhtml > > (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/), smil (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-smil) > > and mp3. > > > > The layout of the book is pretty much like a normal printed book, there > > is a table of contents (ToC), from this ToC links lead to .smil-files > > which in turn points to the exect (1/100th of s exact) point in the > > audiostream to play, these .smil-files also points where in the text of > > the book the narrator reads. > > > > And now my thoughts on the UI-issue (only for the ToC). > > I think that a lynx-like UI is the best to use for the ToC, but because > > braille displays can not show bold text I need to show on which line > > there are 1 link and where there are >1 links. The ToC is built from > > <hX>-tags and <span>-tags (containing links). The header-tags are > > required to be sections (they should follow the printed book as closley > > as possible) and the span-tags contains links to pages. > > > > So to diffrentiate between these I'm thinking about reserving the 2 > > leftmost columns to show if the line is a heading or contains pages. > > I was thinking about using '*' for headings and '>' for pages, but I > > don't know how much these differs on different displays (I'm sighted and > > do not have easy access to any braille-displays). So it would look > > something like this: > > * 15. Treatment of Early Trauma and Insight > > > 217 218 219 220 > > > > So now, flame on and give me some nice input on this and you might have > > a free, open source Daisy-player "soon" (this is a for fun, sparetime > > project, so sometimes it goes unattended for a few weeks). > > > > /Peter Toneby > > -- > > Alpha Test Version: Too buggy to be released to the paying public. > > Beta Test Version: Still too buggy to be released. > > Release Version: Alternate pronunciation of "Beta Test Version". > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list -- Alpha Test Version: Too buggy to be released to the paying public. Beta Test Version: Still too buggy to be released. Release Version: Alternate pronunciation of "Beta Test Version". ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: writing screenreader friendly software ` Peter Toneby @ ` Dave Csercsics ` Jason White 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Dave Csercsics @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Yes it should be quite easy to do that. And the characters you mentioned in your first message are quite different from each other in braille so that there should not be a problem at all. And the lynx interface should work quite well as that program works great with a braille display and speech as well so it should be good. On Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 12:04:34AM +0200, Peter Toneby wrote: > John, > Actually this is not the problem since everything in the table of > contents will be links (otherwise is the book not standards compliant), > so just pointing out headline/pages should be enough (even if it mostly > is quite obvious which is which). > > /Peter > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 03:33:44PM -0400, John J. Boyer wrote: > > Peter, > > Jaws has ways of showing various types of highlighting, including bold and > > underline, by using dots 7 and 8 in various combinations on an 8-dot Braille > > display. Usually, highlighted text is indicated by turning on both dats 7 > > and 8. I have not tried other options, since this has been sufficient. So if > > I am reading a Web page and come on words that have dots 7 and 8 raised, I > > know this is probably a link. Jawws also puts the word "link" or "graphic" > > on the display. > > John > > > > Computers to Help People, Inc. > > http://www.chpi.org > > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter Toneby" <woormie@acc.umu.se> > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 13:23 > > Subject: writing screenreader friendly software > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I'm currently working on a (to be free) player for Daisy-books, now > > > I've got some of the basic dataparsing working and want to move onto > > > the UI but I'm not sure how to make it so it fits screenreaders. > > > > > > My primary concern are braille displays, because according to a friend > > > of mine they can't show bold, underline or any other kind of > > > charactermodifications. > > > > > > My questions about this are: > > > 1. How should I design the UI? (see below for my thoughts) > > > 2. What library should I use to write it? are some better than others? > > > 3. Are there any special considerations I should take to make things > > > work with both braille displays and speech synthesizers? > > > > > > Daisy is an open standard based on standard fileformats such as xhtml > > > (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/), smil (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-smil) > > > and mp3. > > > > > > The layout of the book is pretty much like a normal printed book, there > > > is a table of contents (ToC), from this ToC links lead to .smil-files > > > which in turn points to the exect (1/100th of s exact) point in the > > > audiostream to play, these .smil-files also points where in the text of > > > the book the narrator reads. > > > > > > And now my thoughts on the UI-issue (only for the ToC). > > > I think that a lynx-like UI is the best to use for the ToC, but because > > > braille displays can not show bold text I need to show on which line > > > there are 1 link and where there are >1 links. The ToC is built from > > > <hX>-tags and <span>-tags (containing links). The header-tags are > > > required to be sections (they should follow the printed book as closley > > > as possible) and the span-tags contains links to pages. > > > > > > So to diffrentiate between these I'm thinking about reserving the 2 > > > leftmost columns to show if the line is a heading or contains pages. > > > I was thinking about using '*' for headings and '>' for pages, but I > > > don't know how much these differs on different displays (I'm sighted and > > > do not have easy access to any braille-displays). So it would look > > > something like this: > > > * 15. Treatment of Early Trauma and Insight > > > > 217 218 219 220 > > > > > > So now, flame on and give me some nice input on this and you might have > > > a free, open source Daisy-player "soon" (this is a for fun, sparetime > > > project, so sometimes it goes unattended for a few weeks). > > > > > > /Peter Toneby > > > -- > > > Alpha Test Version: Too buggy to be released to the paying public. > > > Beta Test Version: Still too buggy to be released. > > > Release Version: Alternate pronunciation of "Beta Test Version". > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > -- > Alpha Test Version: Too buggy to be released to the paying public. > Beta Test Version: Still too buggy to be released. > Release Version: Alternate pronunciation of "Beta Test Version". > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: writing screenreader friendly software ` Dave Csercsics @ ` Jason White 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Jason White @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list The better solution would be to provide an option that would send the text to a braille translator (with the appropriate formatting codes included). The output would then be returned as contracted (Grade II) braille. A transformation tool could be used to convert the start/end tags of the XML input to appropriate formatting codes for the braille translator. Several translators are already available as free software (open-source), though there is a need for better software in this area. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: writing screenreader friendly software writing screenreader friendly software Peter Toneby ` John J. Boyer @ ` Reinhard Stebner ` Sebastien Sable 2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Reinhard Stebner @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list you mite want to check out the following web site: 222.blindprogramming.com This web site has manyresources for helping blind as well as sited programmers make accessable app. Also, e-mail the web master and sent the same message to him (the one under neeth this one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Toneby" <woormie@acc.umu.se> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 12:23 PM Subject: writing screenreader friendly software > Hello > > I'm currently working on a (to be free) player for Daisy-books, now > I've got some of the basic dataparsing working and want to move onto > the UI but I'm not sure how to make it so it fits screenreaders. > > My primary concern are braille displays, because according to a friend > of mine they can't show bold, underline or any other kind of > charactermodifications. > > My questions about this are: > 1. How should I design the UI? (see below for my thoughts) > 2. What library should I use to write it? are some better than others? > 3. Are there any special considerations I should take to make things > work with both braille displays and speech synthesizers? > > Daisy is an open standard based on standard fileformats such as xhtml > (http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/), smil (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-smil) > and mp3. > > The layout of the book is pretty much like a normal printed book, there > is a table of contents (ToC), from this ToC links lead to .smil-files > which in turn points to the exect (1/100th of s exact) point in the > audiostream to play, these .smil-files also points where in the text of > the book the narrator reads. > > And now my thoughts on the UI-issue (only for the ToC). > I think that a lynx-like UI is the best to use for the ToC, but because > braille displays can not show bold text I need to show on which line > there are 1 link and where there are >1 links. The ToC is built from > <hX>-tags and <span>-tags (containing links). The header-tags are > required to be sections (they should follow the printed book as closley > as possible) and the span-tags contains links to pages. > > So to diffrentiate between these I'm thinking about reserving the 2 > leftmost columns to show if the line is a heading or contains pages. > I was thinking about using '*' for headings and '>' for pages, but I > don't know how much these differs on different displays (I'm sighted and > do not have easy access to any braille-displays). So it would look > something like this: > * 15. Treatment of Early Trauma and Insight > > 217 218 219 220 > > So now, flame on and give me some nice input on this and you might have > a free, open source Daisy-player "soon" (this is a for fun, sparetime > project, so sometimes it goes unattended for a few weeks). > > /Peter Toneby > -- > Alpha Test Version: Too buggy to be released to the paying public. > Beta Test Version: Still too buggy to be released. > Release Version: Alternate pronunciation of "Beta Test Version". > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: writing screenreader friendly software writing screenreader friendly software Peter Toneby ` John J. Boyer ` Reinhard Stebner @ ` Sebastien Sable 2 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Sebastien Sable @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Peter Toneby <woormie@acc.umu.se> writes: > I'm currently working on a (to be free) player for Daisy-books, now > I've got some of the basic dataparsing working and want to move onto > the UI but I'm not sure how to make it so it fits screenreaders. Hi, I did a quite simple text book reader for blind children. This must have some similarities with your player. Since it needed to be very easy to use even for a children, I decided not to use a screenreader but to create a library so I can directly access the braille display. The existing code originally based on brltty is available there: http://libbraille.sourceforge.net While it is far from finished, it works quite well for my project. The reader (called 'Gabriel') is not accessible on the web, but if you need it as an example I could send it to you. -- Sébastien Sablé <Sebastien.Sable@snv.jussieu.fr> http://inova.snv.jussieu.fr/~sable/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~ UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
writing screenreader friendly software Peter Toneby
` John J. Boyer
` Peter Toneby
` Dave Csercsics
` Jason White
` Reinhard Stebner
` Sebastien Sable
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).