Re: Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

Re: Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

[Martin G. McCormick]

Jason White writes:
> What happens if you log in from the console and then run startx to 
> commence a
> Gnome session?

	What you get when the system boots precludes much
control other than through an X console. You hear the speakup
kernel starting up and complaining about many things such as the
state of the alsa configuration. Apparently, this is okay as
sound and sound effects do run. Eventually, X starts on its own
and you loose the ability to stop speakup.

	Speakup continues to complain about many things and then
describes everything starting up until about where bluetooth
starts at which point it stops talking.

	What should happen after that based on a few tantalizing
events is that you get the orca login window but nothing has
worked after that.

	If you log in from a ssh console and tell the system to
reboot, speakup begins talking again to announce the shutdown
and does so for a couple of seconds until it dies as all the
running processes are killed off.

	From what I can tell, X takes over automatically and
stays on until you log in from somewhere else and kill gdm3 at
which time you can get all your speakup consoles back or you
reboot or halt the system at which time speakup sings it swan's
song so to speak as the system goes down.

RE: Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

[Don Raikes]

I can tell you from my experience with backtrack, that if you login to the console with Speakup working, then turn Speakup off using keypad insert+keypad plus then run startx, that gnome came up talking just fine.  I did not have speech-dispatcher or pulseaudio running on the backtrack livecd when I experienced this situation.


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin G. McCormick [mailto:martin@server1.shellworld.net] 
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 3:58 AM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

Jason White writes:
> What happens if you log in from the console and then run startx to 
> commence a Gnome session?

	What you get when the system boots precludes much control other than through an X console. You hear the speakup kernel starting up and complaining about many things such as the state of the alsa configuration. Apparently, this is okay as sound and sound effects do run. Eventually, X starts on its own and you loose the ability to stop speakup.

	Speakup continues to complain about many things and then describes everything starting up until about where bluetooth starts at which point it stops talking.

	What should happen after that based on a few tantalizing events is that you get the orca login window but nothing has worked after that.

	If you log in from a ssh console and tell the system to reboot, speakup begins talking again to announce the shutdown and does so for a couple of seconds until it dies as all the running processes are killed off.

	From what I can tell, X takes over automatically and stays on until you log in from somewhere else and kill gdm3 at which time you can get all your speakup consoles back or you reboot or halt the system at which time speakup sings it swan's song so to speak as the system goes down.
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Re: Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

[Jason White]

Martin G. McCormick <martin@server1.shellworld.net> wrote:
 
> 	What you get when the system boots precludes much
> control other than through an X console. You hear the speakup
> kernel starting up and complaining about many things such as the
> state of the alsa configuration. Apparently, this is okay as
> sound and sound effects do run. Eventually, X starts on its own
> and you loose the ability to stop speakup.
> 
> 	Speakup continues to complain about many things and then
> describes everything starting up until about where bluetooth
> starts at which point it stops talking.
> 
> 	What should happen after that based on a few tantalizing
> events is that you get the orca login window but nothing has
> worked after that.

My suggestion was to turn off gdm so that X doesn't start during the boot
process. You'll need to modify the init scripts with, for example, chkconfig
gdm3 off and if it's already started, service gdm3 stop

Re: Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

[Martin G. McCormick]

	I understand now what you were telling me. What I did is
similar in effect. If I want a boot without gnome starting, I
went to /etc/rc2.d and did mv S19gdm3 _S19gdm3 which takes the
gdm3 starter script out of the list. I could then reboot without
gnome.

	I next turned off speakup via the number pad, remotely
logged in so as to know exactly what was happening and put
S19gdm3 back then issued the /etc/rc2.d/gdm3 start command. I
never heard anything, waited a couple of minutes and logged in
to the silent console with my user name and password and orca
then belatedly said "Welcome to orca" and died as always. In
other words, same behavior.

	I did download the new vinux4.0 disk and it is the first
release of vinux since way back in 2009 to come up alive and
working.

	This is a 2.7-GHZ Pentium4 with a gigabyte of RAM but it
has been picky about sound not working on just about every ubuntu
and Debian distribution I have handed it since I got it in 2011.
It would run the obsolete stuff like Vinux2.0 just fine but no
vinux3.x or ubuntu recent versions.

	The speakup-enabled kernel in Debian wheezy does work
great on this system after complaining about sound as it comes
up.

	I think what I will probably do is install vinux for now
as I am getting tired with this two-year cybur version of
"Ground Hog Day." A new version comes. I burn a CD. I put it in
the Pentium4 system, boot and nothing good happens. Usually,
nothing happens at all.

	At least Debian Wheezy is just before working, I think.

	I realize the gnome booting process with speech requires
an amazing number of dominoes to fall in just the right order
and the OS has to figure out what kind of hardware it is
building on so I am amazed it ever works for anybody.

	I will probably not whack it again and try to install
vinux until this weekend so is there any system logs I can
create and send to anybody which will help the cause along?

	It is so close, but not quite there in the standard and
netinst CD. 

	We have sound, now, and I think the problem lies in the
way orca and gnome initialize. the Speakup part is now perfectly
good as far as I can tell.

Jason White writes:
> Martin G. McCormick <martin@server1.shellworld.net> wrote:
> 
> >       What you get when the system boots precludes much
> > control other than through an X console. You hear the speakup
> > kernel starting up and complaining about many things such as the
> > state of the alsa configuration. Apparently, this is okay as
> > sound and sound effects do run. Eventually, X starts on its own
> > and you loose the ability to stop speakup.
> >
> >       Speakup continues to complain about many things and then
> > describes everything starting up until about where bluetooth
> > starts at which point it stops talking.
> >
> >       What should happen after that based on a few tantalizing
> > events is that you get the orca login window but nothing has
> > worked after that.
> 
> My suggestion was to turn off gdm so that X doesn't start during the boot
> process. You'll need to modify the init scripts with, for example, 
> chkconfig
> gdm3 off and if it's already started, service gdm3 stop
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

Re: Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

[Martin G. McCormick]

	Thank you. I will try that as it is something I haven't
tried yet. I notice the messages you hear on number-pad insert
and number pad plus are different than what you hear from
Print-screen.

	I am at work now but can try it this evening.

martin

Don Raikes writes:
> I can tell you from my experience with backtrack, that if you login to 
> the console with Speakup working, then turn Speakup off using keypad 
> insert+keypad plus then run startx, that gnome came up talking just fine. 

Re: Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

[Jason White]

Martin G. McCormick <martin@server1.shellworld.net> wrote:
 
> 	I did an install from that and now have no orca login
> prompt but I can silently log in and I get the "Welcome to orca"
> message but nothing after that.

What happens if you log in from the console and then run startx to commence a
Gnome session?

Try leaving Gdm out of it for now.

Latest Chapter in the Quest for Orca

[Martin G. McCormick]

	I downloaded bothe the netinst cd as well as CD1 and
here is what happened:

	There is something wrong with the netinstall CD. It
talks just fine but one must plug the keyboard in to the mouse
port to controll the installation process. When you are
finished, that port dies as a keyboard input and you must move
to the regular keyboard port.

	I did about 3 installs using that disk and never once
got orca to do what it is supposed to do. Once, I got the login
prompt in orca and nothing after the login. 

	I then tried the suggestion of a fellow list member and
downloaded the first full CD and did an install from that.

	On that CD, the keyboard port starts out properly and
does not change which is what should happen.

	I did an install from that and now have no orca login
prompt but I can silently log in and I get the "Welcome to orca"
message but nothing after that.

	When I ssh in from a working command-line console, I can
see myself on tty7 or it shows as unknown before logging in.

	A tail of syslog while logging in is a tale of woe. The
very first thing that happens on entering the password is a kill
signal 15 to the gnome session and then a cascade of error
messages about child processes already being dead, etc. It's
over before it even starts.

	All I did for all these installations was boot the CD
with the s parameter so speakup comes on and then answer all the
installation questions as one would if they wanted the basic
system, gnome and all the utilities. It is 1, 8 and 10 and that
is all.

	I don't think this system is sick because speakup runs
fine if gdm3 is off and espeakup is capable of running as it
produces either the login window or "Welcome to orca" depending
on which broken installation I am pounding on right now.

	I truly don't know what else to do. The gnome login
doesn't survive past the successful entry of the password so
something is terribly wrong from the installation itself and it
doesn't seem to matter whether it is all done over the network
or via the #1 disk.

	Is there a boot string that launches orca without
speakup? I don't really want to not have speakup, but I am
willing to try anything else at this point as I think the speech
engines both work and I can get in to a command console via ssh
from another system if I need to.

	Many thanks and I can supply logs of all the errors if
anybody needs to see them.

Martin