ot: on line banking?

ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

firefox not withstanding, bank does not support it anyway, how are those 
of you working largely in text managing on line banking if at all?
Thanks,
Karen

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Pia]

I use text (lynx is my main web browser) but have found that Online 
banking just doesn't work for me and so use the bank by phone instead. 
That being said, secondarily, PayPal works great in lynx.

HTH,

Pia

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> firefox not withstanding, bank does not support it anyway, how are those of 
> you working largely in text managing on line banking if at all?
> Thanks,
> Karen
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

indeed paypal does,  in lynx, e-links and l  i n k s as well.
I have heard that the w3c is abandoning the road construction idea of 
the Internet, by which I mean, insure some basic elements are in place and 
all can have some sort of a way to the door.  Still given how much 
banking is shifting this way I am stunned there are so few doors.
is not there a fourth browser as well?
Karen

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Pia wrote:

> I use text (lynx is my main web browser) but have found that Online banking 
> just doesn't work for me and so use the bank by phone instead. That being 
> said, secondarily, PayPal works great in lynx.
>
> HTH,
>
> Pia
>
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>
>>  firefox not withstanding, bank does not support it anyway, how are those
>>  of you working largely in text managing on line banking if at all?
>>  Thanks,
>>  Karen
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Speakup mailing list
>>  Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>  http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 07:11:42PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> indeed paypal does,  in lynx, e-links and l  i n k s as well.
> I have heard that the w3c is abandoning the road construction idea of  
> the Internet, by which I mean, insure some basic elements are in place 
> and all can have some sort of a way to the door.  Still given how much  
> banking is shifting this way I am stunned there are so few doors.
> is not there a fourth browser as well?

Uhhm, yes, internet explorer, LOL.

Greg


- -- 
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

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Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkw/mQEACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyArfwCfSzNvgBuDR03jjdST/mb+fCx8
frAAoK0GYw3dMBYgfOgUnor+w4scceL9
=ogi7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gaijin]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 07:00:36PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> firefox not withstanding, bank does not support it anyway, how are
> those of you working largely in text managing on line banking if at
> all?

	I'm not, basically.  My bank wouldn't allow a non-commercial web 
browser to access the accounts, so I use Firefox in Windows XP, with the 
NVDA screen reader (http://www.nvda-project.org).  I do pretty much all 
my web purchases from the Windows GUI.  The rest I normally use 
edbrowse.  Has a 2 to 4 hour learning curve to master, but once you 
start getting the hang of it and work extensively with the search 
function, once you're familiar with a particular web page layout, you 
can navigate almost as fast as if you were sighted.  Wish his Jupiter 
screen reader was a Debian package.  Karl Dahlk is pretty familiar with 
how the blind work best and fastest.

				Michael

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gaijin]

PS: you can make edbrowse say it's any version of browser, though I 
haven't tried it yet with my bank.

				Michael

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Kerry Hoath]

Regardless of W3c guidelines business will drive the demands and 
provisioning of online banking.
It is often necessary to do input validation on form input as it saves 
processing time on the loaded banking site. A browser must thereby 
support javascript in order to achieve this. This includes the ability 
to pop up dialog boxes or a textual equivalent.


Browser must also support persistent cookies and ssl.
Some bank sites also require users to click on numbers on a keypad or 
select them with a keyboard to defeat key loggers etc.


If banking sites move towards capchas then image display/ocr options 
will be necessary.

If banking under Linux I'd suggest Orca and firefox.
Otherwise a windows Machine/virtual machine with Windows NVDA and 
firefox/internet explorer works well. Firefox works extremely well with 
NVDA.

Failing those options getting a Mac also works with the majority of 
online bank sites.
Banks will serve the majority of their customers and for the time being 
that is Windows and Mac users.

With the proliferation of Flash, Javascript, capchas and Ajax I moved to 
browsing the web primarily under Windows since 1999.

There may be hope however if your bank provides a mobile site, as these 
rely far less on complex web technologies.
Regards, Kerry.

On 16/07/2010 7:00 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> firefox not withstanding, bank does not support it anyway, how are 
> those of you working largely in text managing on line banking if at all?
> Thanks,
> Karen
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

smarty moose!
I That is not a browser,its an endless experience of being lost in a 
wilderness of security problems pop up ads and mayhem,  and that is 
before you ad windows, laughter.


On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 07:11:42PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> indeed paypal does,  in lynx, e-links and l  i n k s as well.
>> I have heard that the w3c is abandoning the road construction idea of
>> the Internet, by which I mean, insure some basic elements are in place
>> and all can have some sort of a way to the door.  Still given how much
>> banking is shifting this way I am stunned there are so few doors.
>> is not there a fourth browser as well?
>
> Uhhm, yes, internet explorer, LOL.
>
> Greg
>
>
> - --
> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>
> - --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkw/mQEACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyArfwCfSzNvgBuDR03jjdST/mb+fCx8
> frAAoK0GYw3dMBYgfOgUnor+w4scceL9
> =ogi7
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

My bank *requires* the use of jfw or window eyes only.  It is amusing that 
they  recommend editions of both that are several  editions out of date, but 
no other screen reader is allowed.
Karen

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Gaijin wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 07:00:36PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> firefox not withstanding, bank does not support it anyway, how are
>> those of you working largely in text managing on line banking if at
>> all?
>
> 	I'm not, basically.  My bank wouldn't allow a non-commercial web
> browser to access the accounts, so I use Firefox in Windows XP, with the
> NVDA screen reader (http://www.nvda-project.org).  I do pretty much all
> my web purchases from the Windows GUI.  The rest I normally use
> edbrowse.  Has a 2 to 4 hour learning curve to master, but once you
> start getting the hang of it and work extensively with the search
> function, once you're familiar with a particular web page layout, you
> can navigate almost as fast as if you were sighted.  Wish his Jupiter
> screen reader was a Debian package.  Karl Dahlk is pretty familiar with
> how the blind work best and fastest.
>
> 				Michael
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

edbrowse!
that is the fourth one I was thinking of.  Anyone using it for banking, 
and is there a specific distribution / package that keeps it up to ate.  I 
keep meaning to ask Ken if it can be added to the shellworld setup.
Karen

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Gaijin wrote:

> PS: you can make edbrowse say it's any version of browser, though I
> haven't tried it yet with my bank.
>
> 				Michael
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

actually, not according to their accessibility statement.
they claim that w3c rules allow them to require the use of jfw and window 
eyes only.  java scripting or security of driver is not an issue.  elinks 
especially, but lynx too has security,  firefox is hands down, more will 
they support the use of the mac screen reading setup.  no cell phone 
structure either.  I know that the 
screen reader has little to do with the total browser experience, but they 
stand firmly in their insistence that w3c says they can insist on jfw or 
window eyes only.
If they were making business claims it would be one thing, but they are 
stating this is their door for the disabled.

Karen

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Kerry Hoath wrote:

> Regardless of W3c guidelines business will drive the demands and provisioning 
> of online banking.
> It is often necessary to do input validation on form input as it saves 
> processing time on the loaded banking site. A browser must thereby support 
> javascript in order to achieve this. This includes the ability to pop up 
> dialog boxes or a textual equivalent.
>
>
> Browser must also support persistent cookies and ssl.
> Some bank sites also require users to click on numbers on a keypad or select 
> them with a keyboard to defeat key loggers etc.
>
>
> If banking sites move towards capchas then image display/ocr options will be 
> necessary.
>
> If banking under Linux I'd suggest Orca and firefox.
> Otherwise a windows Machine/virtual machine with Windows NVDA and 
> firefox/internet explorer works well. Firefox works extremely well with NVDA.
>
> Failing those options getting a Mac also works with the majority of online 
> bank sites.
> Banks will serve the majority of their customers and for the time being that 
> is Windows and Mac users.
>
> With the proliferation of Flash, Javascript, capchas and Ajax I moved to 
> browsing the web primarily under Windows since 1999.
>
> There may be hope however if your bank provides a mobile site, as these rely 
> far less on complex web technologies.
> Regards, Kerry.
>
> On 16/07/2010 7:00 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>  firefox not withstanding, bank does not support it anyway, how are those
>>  of you working largely in text managing on line banking if at all?
>>  Thanks,
>>  Karen
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Speakup mailing list
>>  Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>  http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gaijin]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:02:33PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> My bank *requires* the use of jfw or window eyes only.

	So sue them in court for denying you equal access.  What they're 
doing is illegal, likely because their web technicians are only 
moderately educated.  Then after you sue them, change banks.

	It's not like they can afford to lose customers in this economy.  
If enough people actually fought back rather than bending over and 
taking it up the wahzoo by everyone else, this actually might become a 
fairly comfortable world for John Q. Public.

				Nichael

	PS: edbrowse will still say that it's Firefox, and it runs 
Mozilla's Seamonkey java libraries, so should work.  Took me two days to 
get really comfortable with it, and now it's my favorite web browser.

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gaijin]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:06:00PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> edbrowse!
> that is the fourth one I was thinking of.  Anyone using it for
> banking, and is there a specific distribution / package that keeps

	Debian Testing really doesn't.  The author says it's at version 
3.4.4, but my copy is at 3.4.1, and doesn't even have the "zero line 
number" bug removed yet.  There's a bug in the 1z command that will read 
you a page of info, but it cuts off the first line of the page, so the 
author modified it so you could use a 0z command instead.  Wrote him 
that Sourceforge hadn't been updated in awhile and Debian uses that site 
to get edbrowse.  He said he took care of it, so maybe it'll get updated 
here in Debian soon.

				Michael

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Trevor Astrope]

My bank used to once work with lynx and I complained when they changed it. 
They said they were aware that lynx would no longer work, and that they 
recommend I use their telephone banking solution which satisfies the 
Canadian "reasonable accommodation" standard.

I now use safari on the mac, which works pretty well.


On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Gaijin wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:02:33PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> My bank *requires* the use of jfw or window eyes only.
>
> 	So sue them in court for denying you equal access.  What they're
> doing is illegal, likely because their web technicians are only
> moderately educated.  Then after you sue them, change banks.
>
> 	It's not like they can afford to lose customers in this economy.
> If enough people actually fought back rather than bending over and
> taking it up the wahzoo by everyone else, this actually might become a
> fairly comfortable world for John Q. Public.
>
> 				Nichael
>
> 	PS: edbrowse will still say that it's Firefox, and it runs
> Mozilla's Seamonkey java libraries, so should work.  Took me two days to
> get really comfortable with it, and now it's my favorite web browser.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

What I would very much appreciate is some firm written documentation that 
this is the case.
I agree about not bending over, I have no intention of doing this. However 
the written proof would help very very much.
Thanks,
Karen

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Gaijin wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:02:33PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> My bank *requires* the use of jfw or window eyes only.
>
> 	So sue them in court for denying you equal access.  What they're
> doing is illegal, likely because their web technicians are only
> moderately educated.  Then after you sue them, change banks.
>
> 	It's not like they can afford to lose customers in this economy.
> If enough people actually fought back rather than bending over and
> taking it up the wahzoo by everyone else, this actually might become a
> fairly comfortable world for John Q. Public.
>
> 				Nichael
>
> 	PS: edbrowse will still say that it's Firefox, and it runs
> Mozilla's Seamonkey java libraries, so should work.  Took me two days to
> get really comfortable with it, and now it's my favorite web browser.
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

What Canadian reasonable accommodations standard?
Or I should say which?
depending on where you are, and if you can do everything with phone banking 
that you could with their on line equal, they may not be correct.
Karen

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Trevor Astrope wrote:

> My bank used to once work with lynx and I complained when they changed it. 
> They said they were aware that lynx would no longer work, and that they 
> recommend I use their telephone banking solution which satisfies the Canadian 
> "reasonable accommodation" standard.
>
> I now use safari on the mac, which works pretty well.
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010, Gaijin wrote:
>
>>  On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:02:33PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> >  My bank *requires* the use of jfw or window eyes only.
>>
>>  	So sue them in court for denying you equal access.  What they're
>>  doing is illegal, likely because their web technicians are only
>>  moderately educated.  Then after you sue them, change banks.
>>
>>  	It's not like they can afford to lose customers in this economy.
>>  If enough people actually fought back rather than bending over and
>>  taking it up the wahzoo by everyone else, this actually might become a
>>  fairly comfortable world for John Q. Public.
>>
>>      Nichael
>>
>>  	PS: edbrowse will still say that it's Firefox, and it runs
>>  Mozilla's Seamonkey java libraries, so should work.  Took me two days to
>>  get really comfortable with it, and now it's my favorite web browser.
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Speakup mailing list
>>  Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>  http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gaijin]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 09:42:12AM -0400, Trevor Astrope wrote:
> My bank used to once work with lynx and I complained when they
> changed it. They said they were aware that lynx would no longer
> work, and that they recommend I use their telephone banking solution
> which satisfies the Canadian "reasonable accommodation" standard.

	We have the "equal access" law here in the US.  Equal internet 
access wouldn't mean the telephone as a viable substitute, since many 
online stores don't even have phone numbers.  www.clickykeyboards.com is 
just one example.

				Michael

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gaijin]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 06:54:20PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> What I would very much appreciate is some firm written documentation
	Google "Canadian equal access."  It was the 4th link down for 
me.

				Michael

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

My bank, is jp Morgan chase.  will this law be binding on them if an 
American bank?
Karen

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Gaijin wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 06:54:20PM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> What I would very much appreciate is some firm written documentation
> 	Google "Canadian equal access."  It was the 4th link down for
> me.
>
> 				Michael
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gaijin]

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:57:35AM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> My bank, is jp Morgan chase.  will this law be binding on them if an
> American bank?

	Should be.  They have to abide by the laws of the place they do 
business.  It's in the rules, and only those with political immunity are 
exempt.

				Michael

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Karen Lewellen]

Michael,
do you mind sharing a link to this equal access law?
my effort at google is not bringing up.  My guess is that it is here in 
Canada/?
Want to provide the information for my new bank, who has less access than 
rbc lol.
Thanks,
Karen

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010, Gaijin wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 09:42:12AM -0400, Trevor Astrope wrote:
>> My bank used to once work with lynx and I complained when they
>> changed it. They said they were aware that lynx would no longer
>> work, and that they recommend I use their telephone banking solution
>> which satisfies the Canadian "reasonable accommodation" standard.
>
> 	We have the "equal access" law here in the US.  Equal internet
> access wouldn't mean the telephone as a viable substitute, since many
> online stores don't even have phone numbers.  www.clickykeyboards.com is
> just one example.
>
> 				Michael
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Gaijin]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 01:08:08AM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Debian users have an edbrowse package
> available to them

	Yeah, but it's still at version 3.4.1, which is, like, 4 
upgrades away from the current 3.4.5 version available.  Debian is still 
getting it from SourceForge, which hasn't updated their edbrowse page in 
over a year now.

				Michael

Re: ot: on line banking?

[Jude DaShiell]

Yes there is, edbrowse.  It has a support list commandline@yahoogroups.com 
along with the rest of the software written by its author.  Debian users 
have an edbrowse package available to them other distros may or may not. 
Slackware does not but I built it on slackware and have it working.  A 
word of warning about edbrowse, once you install the debian package or do 
the make and make install on the system and have js from mozilla installed 
you're still not ready to use the package.  Using a user account you need 
to run the ebsetup script found in the /usr/share/edbrowse directory since 
edbrowse needs to set several things up and you will need to answer a few 
more questions.  Once that's done you'll be ready to go.  The debian 
edbrowse package was not built correctly since it doesn't check for the 
spidermonkey-bin package and if not found download that package on debian 
systems since edbrowse uses that package to run.