Speakup Web Site

Speakup Web Site

[Dawes, Stephen]

All, 

I have been in discussions with Kirk on taking over the managing of the
Speakup Web site. 
My open-ended question to you is: 
What do you want to see in a revitalized Web site? 

I have intentionally left this question open-ended because I am looking
for all ideas. I am not wanting to start out by having my ideas drive
the discussion. Remember, this is your speakup Web site, so it has to be
useful to you, inviting to anyone new, and usable by anyone using a
screen reader.

  
All ideas welcome. 

Steve Dawes 
Phone: (403) 268-5527 
Email: SDawes@calgary.ca 

NOTICE -
This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity
named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a
person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the
intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution,
or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in
it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or
delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by
us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and co-operation.

Re: Speakup Web Site

[Alastair Irving]

Hi

I think you should consider making the website into a wiki so that it
can become more of a community effort.  The orca website works well in
this way.

Alastair Irving


On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:41:47AM -0600, Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> All, 
> 
> I have been in discussions with Kirk on taking over the managing of the
> Speakup Web site. 
> My open-ended question to you is: 
> What do you want to see in a revitalized Web site? 
> 
> I have intentionally left this question open-ended because I am looking
> for all ideas. I am not wanting to start out by having my ideas drive
> the discussion. Remember, this is your speakup Web site, so it has to be
> useful to you, inviting to anyone new, and usable by anyone using a
> screen reader.
> 
>   
> All ideas welcome. 
> 
> Steve Dawes 
> Phone: (403) 268-5527 
> Email: SDawes@calgary.ca 
> 
> NOTICE -
> This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity
> named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a
> person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the
> intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution,
> or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in
> it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
> error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or
> delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by
> us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and co-operation.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Speakup Web Site

[Willem van der Walt]

May be:
1. It should still work with lynx the cat once you are done.
2.  Have prominent instructions on building speakup with the latest 
information.
3.  have an indication of dead none-working programs if they are still 
shown.
HTH, Willem


On Tue, 15 Apr 2008, Dawes, Stephen wrote:

> All, 
> 
> I have been in discussions with Kirk on taking over the managing of the
> Speakup Web site. 
> My open-ended question to you is: 
> What do you want to see in a revitalized Web site? 
> 
> I have intentionally left this question open-ended because I am looking
> for all ideas. I am not wanting to start out by having my ideas drive
> the discussion. Remember, this is your speakup Web site, so it has to be
> useful to you, inviting to anyone new, and usable by anyone using a
> screen reader.
> 
>   
> All ideas welcome. 
> 
> Steve Dawes 
> Phone: (403) 268-5527 
> Email: SDawes@calgary.ca 
> 
> NOTICE -
> This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity
> named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a
> person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the
> intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution,
> or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in
> it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
> error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or
> delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by
> us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and co-operation.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

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Re: Speakup Web Site

[W. Nick Dotson]

I want to learn about Linux, use it to get real stuff like e-mail and personal word processing done, plus many other ideas of things I'd like to be able to do with 
it as an alternative to everything I now do in Windoes.  The problem is, it seems that the only way into Linux is to be a programmer and have the time and 
energy to wade through the disorganized poorly written documentation out their in Linux land.  Janina's stuff is well written, and usually she understands that 
some of us need to be lead by the hand as we're absorbing jargon and concepts, but that's the exception to most of what I've encountered and what has 
stopped me from persuing my interest.  I would like to see a site with resources which would help me as an interested newbee which didn't expect I could 
program in C, have used UNIX for the last 40 years, and want to spend the few minutes I have to spare for this writing code I don't know how to write.  As I 
see it, Linux will be a Geekish dead-end until it gets enough user's to fund useful interfaces and code for useful applications rather than tinker toys where 
people are talking about scripting this module and that, compiling Etc., something most of us who want to do real things have neither time nor patience or 
energy for not to mention expertise.  (grin)  So, education and tutorials, and ways those of us with Windows can get the tools to build our Linux computers 
which will most likely be retired Windows boxes until we get good and knowledgeable enough to build dedicated Linux boxes from scratch.

Nick

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:41:47 -0600, Dawes, Stephen wrote:

All, 

I have been in discussions with Kirk on taking over the managing of the
Speakup Web site. 
My open-ended question to you is: 
What do you want to see in a revitalized Web site? 

I have intentionally left this question open-ended because I am looking
for all ideas. I am not wanting to start out by having my ideas drive
the discussion. Remember, this is your speakup Web site, so it has to be
useful to you, inviting to anyone new, and usable by anyone using a
screen reader.

  
All ideas welcome. 

Steve Dawes 
Phone: (403) 268-5527 
Email: SDawes@calgary.ca 

NOTICE -
This communication is intended ONLY for the use of the person or entity
named above and may contain information that is confidential or legally
privileged. If you are not the intended recipient named above or a
person responsible for delivering messages or communications to the
intended recipient, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that any use, distribution,
or copying of this communication or any of the information contained in
it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in
error, please notify us immediately by telephone and then destroy or
delete this communication, or return it to us by mail if requested by
us. The City of Calgary thanks you for your attention and co-operation.

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


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Re: Speakup Web Site

[Gaijin]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 05:04:30PM +0200, Willem van der Walt wrote:
> 3.  have an indication of dead none-working programs if they are still 
> shown.

	I would be more interested in working programs, myself, starting
with the best first and optionally detailing problems and their
	work-arounds, if any.  FTP site organization in a tree
	structured format would be nice, too.  Especially for us
	near-clueless newbies.  Personally, I work best starting with
	descriptive topic links and being able to run a serch that's
	likely to find the topic I'm looking for, searching for
	words/text like "compil", "keys", and "compatib", and knowing
	I'll find compiling instructions, defined keystrokes, and
	compatible software, respectively.  Key topics being listed in
	alphabetical order would also be helpful for people so new that
	they don't know how  to use search would even be a help if an
	index becomes a bit large.   Just tossing out ideas, not
	suggestions.  HTH,

				Michael

Re: Speakup Web Site

[Garrett Klein]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1803 bytes --]

What I think would be nice is some page with the latest status of
speakup in distributions (e.g. Slackware, Ubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo) and
possibly user-contributed instructions as to what is required to get it
working (like on Gentoo, which is kind of fun since it does everything
from source).

I think one of the big problems right now is that people want their
distro to "just work" (tm), but don't know what they can just download
and burn to get a talking console. I mean, Ubuntu is all the rage lately
and that's great, but it's not too cool if you want speakup.

Okay, I'm done ranting.

Garrett

Gaijin wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 05:04:30PM +0200, Willem van der Walt wrote:
>> 3.  have an indication of dead none-working programs if they are still 
>> shown.
> 
> 	I would be more interested in working programs, myself, starting
> with the best first and optionally detailing problems and their
> 	work-arounds, if any.  FTP site organization in a tree
> 	structured format would be nice, too.  Especially for us
> 	near-clueless newbies.  Personally, I work best starting with
> 	descriptive topic links and being able to run a serch that's
> 	likely to find the topic I'm looking for, searching for
> 	words/text like "compil", "keys", and "compatib", and knowing
> 	I'll find compiling instructions, defined keystrokes, and
> 	compatible software, respectively.  Key topics being listed in
> 	alphabetical order would also be helpful for people so new that
> 	they don't know how  to use search would even be a help if an
> 	index becomes a bit large.   Just tossing out ideas, not
> 	suggestions.  HTH,
> 
> 				Michael
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Speakup Web Site

[Tony Baechler]

Hi,

One thing that I think is in desperate need of being addressed is making 
other developers aware that Speakup exists, greatly increases 
accessibility, and can easily be installed into a production kernel.  I 
have two specific reasons for saying this.  First, there are very few 
distros which include Speakup as part of their official kernel and 
installer images.  Unless I'm mistaken, Debian doesn't include it 
officially now and the unofficial install image isn't current.  I would 
strongly recommend against anyone using the unofficial Etch kernel with 
Speakup because it hasn't been updated since the release of Etch and has 
known security flaws that aren't fixed.  Most of the smaller and lesser 
known distros don't include Speakup either even though there is no good 
reason not to include it.  I have thought about using various 
specialized distros designed to replace hardware routers and firewalls 
but I'm not aware of any that include Speakup.  Obviously the point 
would be to keep the distro small but it could still be built into the 
kernel.

The second reason may be of less interest to people here but I think 
it's important just the same.  That is to make commercial projects that 
are based on the Linux kernel also aware of Speakup.  Specifically, I'm 
working with a company that makes backup imaging software for DOS, 
Windows, and Linux.  It is possible but difficult to use the DOS version 
with a screen reader.  I suggested that they could build Speakup into 
the Linux version and it would be accessible out of the box.  They 
seemed interested but I think the project is stalled because the site is 
not current.  I didn't know at the time, but apparently Speakup had 
already switched to git and there was no mention of that in the old CVS 
repository.  Apparently they found the new git repo but I don't know how 
because I wasn't aware of it until Kirk posted the url here.  It makes 
it difficult to push for better accessibility when the site is very old 
and the project looks abandoned.  While I'm here, I would also like to 
suggest putting a link to the most current release (maybe a snapshot 
made nightly from git?) and the most recent stable release right on the 
home page.  Many people, especially the developers described above, 
don't have time to browse through a site just to find a download link.  
Since most people consider it a favor to include any kind of 
accessibility in their particular distro's kernel, they really don't 
understand what Speakup is except that it's supposed to help the blind.  
Maybe a mp3 demo of someone using Speakup for daily tasks would be good.

Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> What do you want to see in a revitalized Web site? 
>   

Re: Speakup Web Site

[Steve Holmes]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Keeping the information up to date is crucial here.  I think I like
the wiki idea once people learn how to use it, it might be a lot
easier to keep stuff current.  I also agree that a snapshot should be
made available frequently.  With so many distros not including a
speakup-patched kernel, this may be the next best alternative and if
somebody has to go to git to pull down an experimental version of
speakup, it could be a real turn-off.  Again, many new-comers probably
haven't a clue about compiling kernels yet and they want a talking
Linux to try out.

I think Bill Acker has done a commendable job at keeping up with the
speakup-modified kernels for the Fedora distributions.  I also commend
Pat and the Slackware folks for keeping speakup in their kernels
also.  Since I'm a Slackware user, I should keep more involved with
them to be sure it stays that way.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 05:53:44AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> One thing that I think is in desperate need of being addressed is making 
> other developers aware that Speakup exists, greatly increases 
> accessibility, and can easily be installed into a production kernel.  I 
> have two specific reasons for saying this.  First, there are very few 
> distros which include Speakup as part of their official kernel and 
> installer images.  Unless I'm mistaken, Debian doesn't include it 
> officially now and the unofficial install image isn't current.  I would 
> strongly recommend against anyone using the unofficial Etch kernel with 
> Speakup because it hasn't been updated since the release of Etch and has 
> known security flaws that aren't fixed.  Most of the smaller and lesser 
> known distros don't include Speakup either even though there is no good 
> reason not to include it.  I have thought about using various 
> specialized distros designed to replace hardware routers and firewalls 
> but I'm not aware of any that include Speakup.  Obviously the point 
> would be to keep the distro small but it could still be built into the 
> kernel.
> 
> The second reason may be of less interest to people here but I think 
> it's important just the same.  That is to make commercial projects that 
> are based on the Linux kernel also aware of Speakup.  Specifically, I'm 
> working with a company that makes backup imaging software for DOS, 
> Windows, and Linux.  It is possible but difficult to use the DOS version 
> with a screen reader.  I suggested that they could build Speakup into 
> the Linux version and it would be accessible out of the box.  They 
> seemed interested but I think the project is stalled because the site is 
> not current.  I didn't know at the time, but apparently Speakup had 
> already switched to git and there was no mention of that in the old CVS 
> repository.  Apparently they found the new git repo but I don't know how 
> because I wasn't aware of it until Kirk posted the url here.  It makes 
> it difficult to push for better accessibility when the site is very old 
> and the project looks abandoned.  While I'm here, I would also like to 
> suggest putting a link to the most current release (maybe a snapshot 
> made nightly from git?) and the most recent stable release right on the 
> home page.  Many people, especially the developers described above, 
> don't have time to browse through a site just to find a download link.  
> Since most people consider it a favor to include any kind of 
> accessibility in their particular distro's kernel, they really don't 
> understand what Speakup is except that it's supposed to help the blind.  
> Maybe a mp3 demo of someone using Speakup for daily tasks would be good.
> 
> Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> > What do you want to see in a revitalized Web site? 
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

- -- 
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
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=syhr
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Re: Speakup Web Site

[Alex Snow]

I'm personally not a big fan of wiki-based documentation...It does 
kind of help keep documentation current, but it also produces a lot of 
bad docs (users posting incorrect solutions to problems, poor 
organization, etc) unless it has someone who makes a point of keeping 
the wiki organized and making sure the information is good.
On Tue, Apr 
22, 2008 at 07:01:59AM -0700, Steve Holmes wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> Keeping the information up to date is crucial here.  I think I like
> the wiki idea once people learn how to use it, it might be a lot
> easier to keep stuff current.  I also agree that a snapshot should be
> made available frequently.  With so many distros not including a
> speakup-patched kernel, this may be the next best alternative and if
> somebody has to go to git to pull down an experimental version of
> speakup, it could be a real turn-off.  Again, many new-comers probably
> haven't a clue about compiling kernels yet and they want a talking
> Linux to try out.
> 
> I think Bill Acker has done a commendable job at keeping up with the
> speakup-modified kernels for the Fedora distributions.  I also commend
> Pat and the Slackware folks for keeping speakup in their kernels
> also.  Since I'm a Slackware user, I should keep more involved with
> them to be sure it stays that way.
> 
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 05:53:44AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > One thing that I think is in desperate need of being addressed is making 
> > other developers aware that Speakup exists, greatly increases 
> > accessibility, and can easily be installed into a production kernel.  I 
> > have two specific reasons for saying this.  First, there are very few 
> > distros which include Speakup as part of their official kernel and 
> > installer images.  Unless I'm mistaken, Debian doesn't include it 
> > officially now and the unofficial install image isn't current.  I would 
> > strongly recommend against anyone using the unofficial Etch kernel with 
> > Speakup because it hasn't been updated since the release of Etch and has 
> > known security flaws that aren't fixed.  Most of the smaller and lesser 
> > known distros don't include Speakup either even though there is no good 
> > reason not to include it.  I have thought about using various 
> > specialized distros designed to replace hardware routers and firewalls 
> > but I'm not aware of any that include Speakup.  Obviously the point 
> > would be to keep the distro small but it could still be built into the 
> > kernel.
> > 
> > The second reason may be of less interest to people here but I think 
> > it's important just the same.  That is to make commercial projects that 
> > are based on the Linux kernel also aware of Speakup.  Specifically, I'm 
> > working with a company that makes backup imaging software for DOS, 
> > Windows, and Linux.  It is possible but difficult to use the DOS version 
> > with a screen reader.  I suggested that they could build Speakup into 
> > the Linux version and it would be accessible out of the box.  They 
> > seemed interested but I think the project is stalled because the site is 
> > not current.  I didn't know at the time, but apparently Speakup had 
> > already switched to git and there was no mention of that in the old CVS 
> > repository.  Apparently they found the new git repo but I don't know how 
> > because I wasn't aware of it until Kirk posted the url here.  It makes 
> > it difficult to push for better accessibility when the site is very old 
> > and the project looks abandoned.  While I'm here, I would also like to 
> > suggest putting a link to the most current release (maybe a snapshot 
> > made nightly from git?) and the most recent stable release right on the 
> > home page.  Many people, especially the developers described above, 
> > don't have time to browse through a site just to find a download link.  
> > Since most people consider it a favor to include any kind of 
> > accessibility in their particular distro's kernel, they really don't 
> > understand what Speakup is except that it's supposed to help the blind.  
> > Maybe a mp3 demo of someone using Speakup for daily tasks would be good.
> > 
> > Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> > > What do you want to see in a revitalized Web site? 
> > >   
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> - -- 
> HolmesGrown Solutions
> The best solutions for the best price!
> http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
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> C48oBD+t4BmZGIPbNcoHc10=
> =syhr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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