Reply to your enquiry

Reply to your enquiry

[satyam]

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I think you can try with Emacspeak. 
for more information try  on the web sight 
http://www.gnome.org

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VERSION:2.1
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EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:blindprogramming@yahoogroups.com
REV:20020529T194358Z
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Reply to your enquiry

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Do we have to have HTML messages even on the speakup list?

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Ryan Mann]

What HTML?  I haven't seen any HTML in any of the messages on this list
lately.  Maybe you should try using Pine instead of whatever mail program
your using.

On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Do we have to have HTML messages even on the speakup list?
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> 			Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Now, that's irritating!  Why should I use Pine if I like VM and it
works just fine?  I can read the HTML, but it does take an extra
keystroke to do so.  One shouldn't have to be afflicted with Windows
idiocy on a Linux list.  Go into the options of Microsoft Gumbus and
UN-check HTML & and anything else except for plain blessed text!! 
<GRRRRRRR> 

i AM AFFLICTED WITH wINDOWS IN MY JOB, i DON'T HAVE TO HAVE IT ON A
Linux LIST, PERIOD!!  sORRY FOR THE RANT, BUT PEOPLE WHO TELL OTHERS
WHAT SOFTWARE OR LATEST VERSION OF SOFTWARE TO USE ARE IRRITATING!  if
THE BLESSED MSGS WERE WRITTEN IN PLAIN TEXT THE WAY AN EMAIL MESSAGE
IS SUPPOSED TO BE WRITTEN, THEY COULD BE READ BY ANY MAILER, EVEN
Bluewave!  i DON'T SUPPOSE YOU REMEMBER Bluewave?   <SIGH>  I'm
GETTIN' OLD, I'm GETTIN' OLD!! 

Ann p.


-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Didn't we have this discussion over and over again last year?  I use mutt
and outlook express to read email.  Occasionally I get html messages but
that is the way of it.  We can bitch and moan, but really, how many extra
keystrokes have been done reading all the extra email about one extra
keystroke due to html messages.  Seems to me like a lot more.  And how many
keystrokes have been pressed to type messages to reply to the original
messages?


--
If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Reply to your enquiry


> Hi all,
>
> Now, that's irritating!  Why should I use Pine if I like VM and it
> works just fine?  I can read the HTML, but it does take an extra
> keystroke to do so.  One shouldn't have to be afflicted with Windows
> idiocy on a Linux list.  Go into the options of Microsoft Gumbus and
> UN-check HTML & and anything else except for plain blessed text!!
> <GRRRRRRR>

kernel synth info

[Patrick Turnage]

Hi.
I have 2.2.18-pre21 from the speakup ftp site from the debian potato
directory.
I can boot my system like this:
loadlin linux root=/dev/hda1 speakup_synth=bns
I have an ltlk, synthesizer.. 
The kernel speaks some gibberish, and then boots normally, only some shift
characters and character by character reviewing seem not to work..
When I use the ltlk driver, I get no speech at all.. What gives?



        -------------------------
Patrick Turnage
e-mail:pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
Telephone: (850) 459-7717
HomePage: http://www.access-connect.com
Amateur radio callsign:kg4dqk
AOL Instant Messenger:kg4dqk
icq:26862191
MSN:turnagep@hotmail.com
Yahoo!:kg4dqk
America Online:kg4dqk1129 kg4dqk1129@aol.com

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Hi all,

     HTML is inappropriate for mailing lists.  It isn't a speech or mailer 
issue.  It bloats the size of the messages.  Some folks are on slow links 
and don't need to spend the extra time downloading it.  And it isn't just 
the blind oriented lists who dislike it.  Just try posting that crap to 
any of the Red Hat Linux lists and you'll wish for Ann's kindness and 
gentleness.
-- 
          Bill in Denver


On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

> Didn't we have this discussion over and over again last year?  I use mutt
> and outlook express to read email.  Occasionally I get html messages but
> that is the way of it.  We can bitch and moan, but really, how many extra
> keystrokes have been done reading all the extra email about one extra
> keystroke due to html messages.  Seems to me like a lot more.  And how many
> keystrokes have been pressed to type messages to reply to the original
> messages?
> 

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Dave Hunt <]

Anne,

Not that I'm advocating the use of html, the cursed Windows-1252, or
anything else non-standard, but, do you have w3 installed?  I have w3
and vm.  When I'm reading an html message, w3's parser cleans it up,
and puts the result into a "vm presentation" buffer.

-Dave (one o'them emacs desktop users)



Ann Parsons writes:
 > Hi all,
 > 
 > Now, that's irritating!  Why should I use Pine if I like VM and it
 > works just fine?  I can read the HTML, but it does take an extra
 > keystroke to do so.  One shouldn't have to be afflicted with Windows
 > idiocy on a Linux list.  Go into the options of Microsoft Gumbus and
 > UN-check HTML & and anything else except for plain blessed text!! 
 > <GRRRRRRR> 

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Yeh, Raul, that's true, very true, but email is supposed to be email
and HTML is supposed to be kept where it belongs, on the web.  Maybe
I'm a purist, but darn it all, the Net has four main parts to it:
ftp, email, telnet and html.  The Net is not sononymous with the web!
The web is on the net, but all the net is not the web.  I just want
some kind of separation folks!  Email is email and should, if really
taken to its final outcome, be run by engines and software that are
accessed via email messages, not via the web.  But I preach in vain, I
preach in vain.  People yack about The Web when they mean The Net.
People *will* send email in HTML because they don't know any better
way to do it, and Billy-Boy gates perpetuates the myth.  "They don't
make email the way they used to..." said in an old quavery voice.

Ann P.


-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Dave Hunt <]

Oh, and another thing...

I just applied for a job as a "Web Developer", and got a little survey
as a Word attachment, with instructions that it must be returned as
same.  I chucked it.


Grrrrrr,


Dave  (more gray hairs)

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Raul A. Gallegos]

I totally agree Ann.  But life and trends being the way they are right now
there is nothing we can do about html messages.  I am not big on webmail for
that exact reason yet I have it on my site for my friends who use
asmodean.net to check their email?  Why? because these friends of mine don't
know better.  I tease them about it.  So am I advocating html and web usage
for email?  Probably if you look at it that way, but I don't like it.


PS: Just as a smartass remark, there are more than just ftp, telnet, http,
pop3 style traffic on the web, oops on the net.  lol.  But I'm sure you know
that.  As I said, smiling big as I'm being a smartass.
--
If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Reply to your enquiry


> Hi all,
>
> Yeh, Raul, that's true, very true, but email is supposed to be email
> and HTML is supposed to be kept where it belongs, on the web.  Maybe
> I'm a purist, but darn it all, the Net has four main parts to it:
> ftp, email, telnet and html.  The Net is not sononymous with the web!
> The web is on the net, but all the net is not the web.  I just want
> some kind of separation folks!  Email is email and should, if really
> taken to its final outcome, be run by engines and software that are
> accessed via email messages, not via the web.  But I preach in vain, I
> preach in vain.  People yack about The Web when they mean The Net.
> People *will* send email in HTML because they don't know any better
> way to do it, and Billy-Boy gates perpetuates the myth.  "They don't
> make email the way they used to..." said in an old quavery voice.

network problems

[Patrick Turnage]

Hi.
I'm using the 2.2.18pre21 kernel that came with debian potato, and I can't
get my network card to work fine.. I know it does because I used it under
slackware a few years back.. 
I am using isapnp to probe the boards and then am using
modprobe ne io=0x280
and it brings up the eth0 device..
I can set addresses etc.. but when I try to use it I get..
neighbour table overflow..
and no activity on the home lan..
what does this mean and what should be the next step.. I have a few more
issues to work through too.. I compiled a custom kernel of 2.2.19 because
this is basically an old ibm aptiva p133 24m ram 1.2 ghd.. I will try 2.4.x
if I can't get an y results, but I want to do nat and I did not think that
2.4 had all of the nat modules. and besides I understand ipchains a little
better than the symtax for iptables..



        -------------------------
Patrick Turnage
e-mail:pturnage@tampabay.rr.com
Telephone: (850) 459-7717
HomePage: http://www.access-connect.com
Amateur radio callsign:kg4dqk
AOL Instant Messenger:kg4dqk
icq:26862191
MSN:turnagep@hotmail.com
Yahoo!:kg4dqk
America Online:kg4dqk1129 kg4dqk1129@aol.com

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Gregory Nowak]

Hmm, how about forwarding that to Billy boy in Redmond?
Greg


On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 01:06:12PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Yeh, Raul, that's true, very true, but email is supposed to be email
> and HTML is supposed to be kept where it belongs, on the web.  Maybe
> I'm a purist, but darn it all, the Net has four main parts to it:
> ftp, email, telnet and html.  The Net is not sononymous with the web!
> The web is on the net, but all the net is not the web.  I just want
> some kind of separation folks!  Email is email and should, if really
> taken to its final outcome, be run by engines and software that are
> accessed via email messages, not via the web.  But I preach in vain, I
> preach in vain.  People yack about The Web when they mean The Net.
> People *will* send email in HTML because they don't know any better
> way to do it, and Billy-Boy gates perpetuates the myth.  "They don't
> make email the way they used to..." said in an old quavery voice.
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 			Ann K. Parsons  
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Gregory Nowak]

Although jobs aren't as easy to come by these days, good for you!!!
Greg


On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 01:15:46PM -0400, Dave Hunt < wrote:
> Oh, and another thing...
> 
> I just applied for a job as a "Web Developer", and got a little survey
> as a Word attachment, with instructions that it must be returned as
> same.  I chucked it.
> 
> 
> Grrrrrr,
> 
> 
> Dave  (more gray hairs)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Gregory Nowak]

Yeah, I offer webmail on my site for that very same reason. When I tell my friends that they can also log into the system and get an actual shell prompt at which they could learn how to use GNU/Linux without installing it on their boxes, I get "oh ... well that's hard". When I insist that it's not hard at all, the end result is still "well, I just think I'll stick to webmail because it's easier". Has windblows made people's brains turn to mush, or what?
Greg


On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 12:41:47PM -0500, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
> I totally agree Ann.  But life and trends being the way they are right now
> there is nothing we can do about html messages.  I am not big on webmail for
> that exact reason yet I have it on my site for my friends who use
> asmodean.net to check their email?  Why? because these friends of mine don't
> know better.  I tease them about it.  So am I advocating html and web usage
> for email?  Probably if you look at it that way, but I don't like it.
> 
> 
> PS: Just as a smartass remark, there are more than just ftp, telnet, http,
> pop3 style traffic on the web, oops on the net.  lol.  But I'm sure you know
> that.  As I said, smiling big as I'm being a smartass.
> --
> If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
> go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Deedra Waters]

My thoughts, if you don't want html, then I believe there's a mailing
list option to strip that. If that's not possible, then your stuck with
it.On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>      HTML is inappropriate for mailing lists.  It isn't a speech or mailer
> issue.  It bloats the size of the messages.  Some folks are on slow links
> and don't need to spend the extra time downloading it.  And it isn't just
> the blind oriented lists who dislike it.  Just try posting that crap to
> any of the Red Hat Linux lists and you'll wish for Ann's kindness and
> gentleness.
>

-- 
Deedra Waters <dmwaters@dmwaters.org>

Web-page http://www.dmwaters.org

Make sure your E-mail can be read by everyone!
http://www.betips.net/etc/evilmail.html

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Yes, I do and it does, but I have to click on it to read it and it
does take up more space and it is not appropriate for a Linux List.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Now, now, Dave, you shouldn't ought to do that, not when it's for
money.  We turns mercenary we does when somebody say, "I sendin' you
an application for a job that's gonna pay you money."  Iffin I was
thee, lessen I'd deleted the msg, I'd take that Word file, use
Antiword on it and send 'em their dingdong application back in TXT.
They can deal with TXT.  <sigh>  Iffin you expect to get paid for web
development y'll better get yourself a Windows box.  It's a terrible
thing, terrible, but one does strange things when money is involved.
Look at me, now.  I'm being paid to train people in Windows.  So, I
use an inferior, bug-ridden, unstable OS, but my purse gets larger.
All my personal work is done in the right OS, however. 
  

<smile>
Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

<grinning>  Well now if this here HTML continues, I just might.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Igor Gueths]

Hi all. Who is sending html? I know I'm not, and I haven't seen any
recently. So what is all the complaining about?

microsoft dialogue
   This company has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.
   If the problem persists, delete winblows and install linux
   close button

On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> <grinning>  Well now if this here HTML continues, I just might.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> 			Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Scott Howell]

Now now, its not just microslop mail programs that generate html. The
best reason not to use html is not only to best accomidate all types of
MUAs, but to save space and download time for those using dialup
connections.
Besides all that, its another means to prevent any possible or potential
security issues/attacks for those who might be using an mua that suffers
such problems.


On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 11:32:20AM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Now, that's irritating!  Why should I use Pine if I like VM and it
> works just fine?  I can read the HTML, but it does take an extra
> keystroke to do so.  One shouldn't have to be afflicted with Windows
> idiocy on a Linux list.  Go into the options of Microsoft Gumbus and
> UN-check HTML & and anything else except for plain blessed text!! 
> <GRRRRRRR> 

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Aaron Howell]

Actually, its interesting the whole phenomena of windows and teaching people not to think.
(I believe the jargon file refers to it as a "point and drewl interface for that very reason.)
as a system administrator for a university, I get to see a lot of the course material, and how its changed over the years.
When I started my degree in 1996, much of the content was done under Unix, or, even better, VMS.
Now, in 2002, nearly all of it is windows, visual basic and java.
What we are doing today is producing graduates who have no concept whatsoever of how to work with legacy systems,
stick any of this years graduates in front of an xterm and make them log into vms and they won't even make it past the password prompt.
I think this will have a two-fold effect.
Firstly, more and more companies will move initially to Windows based implementations of whatever, because thats all their brand new graduates know how to work with,
and they've all their lives had how good Windows is drummed into them.
following that will come a time of hysteria not unlike y2k (I'll call it y2.01k) when all of a sudden quite a lot of the world's major companies
are going to discover that there's no new blood with any Unix or other legacy operating system experience, and those of us who do are going to be pulling massive salaries, because its going to be cheaper to maintain those legacy systems than it will be to re-implement the whole thing in Windows.
in fact, in many cases, a windows reimplementation won't even be an option due to their being no code portability between X platform and anything running under Windows.
Interesting times ahead I think.
Regards
Aaron
On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 01:23:04PM -0500, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Yeah, I offer webmail on my site for that very same reason. When I tell my friends that they can also log into the system and get an actual shell prompt at which they could learn how to use GNU/Linux without installing it on their boxes, I get "oh ... well that's hard". When I insist that it's not hard at all, the end result is still "well, I just think I'll stick to webmail because it's easier". Has windblows made people's brains turn to mush, or what?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 12:41:47PM -0500, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
> > I totally agree Ann.  But life and trends being the way they are right now
> > there is nothing we can do about html messages.  I am not big on webmail for
> > that exact reason yet I have it on my site for my friends who use
> > asmodean.net to check their email?  Why? because these friends of mine don't
> > know better.  I tease them about it.  So am I advocating html and web usage
> > for email?  Probably if you look at it that way, but I don't like it.
> > 
> > 
> > PS: Just as a smartass remark, there are more than just ftp, telnet, http,
> > pop3 style traffic on the web, oops on the net.  lol.  But I'm sure you know
> > that.  As I said, smiling big as I'm being a smartass.
> > --
> > If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
> > go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
     +----------------------------------------------------------+
    /             |\      _,,,---,,_                           /|
   /              /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_                      / |
  /              |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'                    /  |
 /             '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)                         /   |
+----------------------------------------------------------+    |
| Aaron Howell                  Kitten Internet            |    |
| aaron@kitten.net.au           Internet consultancy,      |    |
| Phone: +61-417-625550         System administration,     |    |
| fax: +61-7-36010099           system design/integration. |    |
| icq: 6715521                  http://www.kitten.net.au   |    |
|                                                          |    |
|                                                          |    +
|                                                          |   /
|                                                          |  /
|                                                          | /
|                                                          |/
+----------------------------------------------------------+

Re: Reply to your enquiry

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

I dunnow, somebody from India or somewhere sent several messages in
HTML.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT