Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Ed Barnes]

Hi, why don't you do us all a favour and rtfm because this way you'd 
spend less time writing messages which just make excuses based on no 
credability regarding why people don't learn Linux. If you are going to 
bitch about what experienced linux users don't do to help newbies you'd 
better have grounds upon which to do so, and I don't think you do as 
several members of this list, Ann, Janina, Greg, and loads more people 
have written many messages to you attempting to help, and I only know of 
what appeared on the list. Undoubtedly you likely received others via 
private email. 
On Thu, 30 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> You are absolutely right.
> That is because nobody care too much to learn Linux newbies.
> To read the manual is the main advice, and this way, of course they will not
> understand, and will seem to be stupid, ... and will hate Linux.
> 
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:02 AM
> Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux.  According to
> > Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS junk.
> > They feel that people can't share files and on nd on.
> >
> > Ann P.
> >
> > --
> > Ann K. Parsons
> > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
> JRRT
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Octavian Rasnita]

No, the fact is that I want to learn Linux in the same way as learning
Windows.
I found this way easier.
What does this way means? It means that I like to ask the others and not to
read a lot.
Maybe this is possible only in the Windows world where most of the people
don't use bad words and tell you to read the fucking manual.
And to make the word fucking make nice, the Linux people use only the F
letter but it means the same thing.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Barnes" <ebarnes@enigma2.cjb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)


>
> Hi, why don't you do us all a favour and rtfm because this way you'd
> spend less time writing messages which just make excuses based on no
> credability regarding why people don't learn Linux. If you are going to
> bitch about what experienced linux users don't do to help newbies you'd
> better have grounds upon which to do so, and I don't think you do as
> several members of this list, Ann, Janina, Greg, and loads more people
> have written many messages to you attempting to help, and I only know of
> what appeared on the list. Undoubtedly you likely received others via
> private email.
> On Thu, 30 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> > You are absolutely right.
> > That is because nobody care too much to learn Linux newbies.
> > To read the manual is the main advice, and this way, of course they will
not
> > understand, and will seem to be stupid, ... and will hate Linux.
> >
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:02 AM
> > Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux.  According to
> > > Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS junk.
> > > They feel that people can't share files and on nd on.
> > >
> > > Ann P.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ann K. Parsons
> > > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
lost."
> > JRRT
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Shaun Oliver]

*SNIP*
> Maybe this is possible only in the Windows world where most of the people
> don't use bad words and tell you to read the fucking manual.
> And to make the word fucking make nice, the Linux people use only the F
> letter but it means the same thing.

Wrong! Wrong! Absolutely god damned wrong!
the acronym rtfm simply means "Read the fine manual".
Teddy, stop bitching, get use to the fact that u no longer have eye site
and quit wanting everything to be handed to you on a silver platter. It's
not going to happen.
I'll give examples but I want you to "rtfm" and learn what else you can do
with whatever you use.


-- 
Shaun Oliver

Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > icq:76958435

Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Alex Snow]

I disagree about the part ware you state that people in the winblows world
don't use words and phrases like "Read The Fucking Manual", because I, and
many of the other people I know, sware more when we're using windows than
linux.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)


> No, the fact is that I want to learn Linux in the same way as learning
> Windows.
> I found this way easier.
> What does this way means? It means that I like to ask the others and not
to
> read a lot.
> Maybe this is possible only in the Windows world where most of the people
> don't use bad words and tell you to read the fucking manual.
> And to make the word fucking make nice, the Linux people use only the F
> letter but it means the same thing.
>
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Barnes" <ebarnes@enigma2.cjb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)
>
>
> >
> > Hi, why don't you do us all a favour and rtfm because this way you'd
> > spend less time writing messages which just make excuses based on no
> > credability regarding why people don't learn Linux. If you are going to
> > bitch about what experienced linux users don't do to help newbies you'd
> > better have grounds upon which to do so, and I don't think you do as
> > several members of this list, Ann, Janina, Greg, and loads more people
> > have written many messages to you attempting to help, and I only know of
> > what appeared on the list. Undoubtedly you likely received others via
> > private email.
> > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> >
> > > You are absolutely right.
> > > That is because nobody care too much to learn Linux newbies.
> > > To read the manual is the main advice, and this way, of course they
will
> not
> > > understand, and will seem to be stupid, ... and will hate Linux.
> > >
> > > Teddy,
> > > orasnita@home.ro
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:02 AM
> > > Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux.  According to
> > > > Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS junk.
> > > > They feel that people can't share files and on nd on.
> > > >
> > > > Ann P.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Ann K. Parsons
> > > > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > > > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > > > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
> lost."
> > > JRRT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Octavian Rasnita]

Really? Ha ha,
It is the first time when I hear about the "fine manual"

Anyway, the Windows and Mac OS users don't tell you to read manuals because
they assume that you already know that.
If they want to help, they help, if they don't want this, they don't tell
anything, but they don't usually tell you to read the manual.

They point you to web sites only when you ask for a web address, or program,
or more information, ...

Regards.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)


> *SNIP*
> > Maybe this is possible only in the Windows world where most of the
people
> > don't use bad words and tell you to read the fucking manual.
> > And to make the word fucking make nice, the Linux people use only the F
> > letter but it means the same thing.
>
> Wrong! Wrong! Absolutely god damned wrong!
> the acronym rtfm simply means "Read the fine manual".
> Teddy, stop bitching, get use to the fact that u no longer have eye site
> and quit wanting everything to be handed to you on a silver platter. It's
> not going to happen.
> I'll give examples but I want you to "rtfm" and learn what else you can do
> with whatever you use.
>
>
> --
> Shaun Oliver
>
> Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> > >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > icq:76958435
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Octavian Rasnita]

Maybe they swear Windows because it crashes a lot, or swear Bill Gates
because he ask for too more money, but they usually don't swear at you.
Have you heard to read the "fine" manual of Windows, or of MS Office?
I never heard that.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)


> I disagree about the part ware you state that people in the winblows world
> don't use words and phrases like "Read The Fucking Manual", because I, and
> many of the other people I know, sware more when we're using windows than
> linux.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)
>
>
> > No, the fact is that I want to learn Linux in the same way as learning
> > Windows.
> > I found this way easier.
> > What does this way means? It means that I like to ask the others and not
> to
> > read a lot.
> > Maybe this is possible only in the Windows world where most of the
people
> > don't use bad words and tell you to read the fucking manual.
> > And to make the word fucking make nice, the Linux people use only the F
> > letter but it means the same thing.
> >
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ed Barnes" <ebarnes@enigma2.cjb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 8:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi, why don't you do us all a favour and rtfm because this way you'd
> > > spend less time writing messages which just make excuses based on no
> > > credability regarding why people don't learn Linux. If you are going
to
> > > bitch about what experienced linux users don't do to help newbies
you'd
> > > better have grounds upon which to do so, and I don't think you do as
> > > several members of this list, Ann, Janina, Greg, and loads more people
> > > have written many messages to you attempting to help, and I only know
of
> > > what appeared on the list. Undoubtedly you likely received others via
> > > private email.
> > > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> > >
> > > > You are absolutely right.
> > > > That is because nobody care too much to learn Linux newbies.
> > > > To read the manual is the main advice, and this way, of course they
> will
> > not
> > > > understand, and will seem to be stupid, ... and will hate Linux.
> > > >
> > > > Teddy,
> > > > orasnita@home.ro
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:02 AM
> > > > Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux.  According
to
> > > > > Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS
junk.
> > > > > They feel that people can't share files and on nd on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ann P.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ann K. Parsons
> > > > > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > > > > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > > > > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are
> > lost."
> > > > JRRT
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

OT: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Ari Moisio]

Hi!

Octavian Rasnita 03.06.02:

>Have you heard to read the "fine" manual of Windows, or of MS Office?
>I never heard that.

  Is there fine manuals for windows at all? At least online helps are
worthless 'cos they repeat same things with more msoft hype than
original problem.

  Of course there are also a lot of printed books but they are useless
for blind user.

  In contrast Linux has excellent documentation, both technically
oriented man pages, good howto's and FAQ's. All these are accessible
plain text or html.

-- 
Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 5, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239
ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05

Re: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Alex Snow]

There is no fine manuel for winblows.  Online help sux because beby the time
you find what you need in those long worthless helpfiles, you've already
solved your problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ari Moisio" <armoi@sci.fi>
To: "Speakup mailing list" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:43 AM
Subject: OT: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)


> Hi!
>
> Octavian Rasnita 03.06.02:
>
> >Have you heard to read the "fine" manual of Windows, or of MS Office?
> >I never heard that.
>
>   Is there fine manuals for windows at all? At least online helps are
> worthless 'cos they repeat same things with more msoft hype than
> original problem.
>
>   Of course there are also a lot of printed books but they are useless
> for blind user.
>
>   In contrast Linux has excellent documentation, both technically
> oriented man pages, good howto's and FAQ's. All these are accessible
> plain text or html.
>
> --
> Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 5, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239
> ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Octavian Rasnita]

That's exactly what I want.
I want to be able to solve the problem by trial and error, by guessing and
not by reading a manual.

Under Linux, I can't guess a command line parameter.
If it needs only one parameter, I can guess it but if it needs a lot of
parameters it will take me a very long time and I may break something.

In Windows, I can try and if it is something dangerous, it will ask me, do
you really want to  do xxx?
And I can cancel, but under Linux, ...

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)


> There is no fine manuel for winblows.  Online help sux because beby the
time
> you find what you need in those long worthless helpfiles, you've already
> solved your problem.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ari Moisio" <armoi@sci.fi>
> To: "Speakup mailing list" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:43 AM
> Subject: OT: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)
>
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Octavian Rasnita 03.06.02:
> >
> > >Have you heard to read the "fine" manual of Windows, or of MS Office?
> > >I never heard that.
> >
> >   Is there fine manuals for windows at all? At least online helps are
> > worthless 'cos they repeat same things with more msoft hype than
> > original problem.
> >
> >   Of course there are also a lot of printed books but they are useless
> > for blind user.
> >
> >   In contrast Linux has excellent documentation, both technically
> > oriented man pages, good howto's and FAQ's. All these are accessible
> > plain text or html.
> >
> > --
> > Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 5, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239
> > ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)

[Steve Holmes]

The methods mentioned below may be fun and trialsum but very
inefficient and often very costly! You should really learn to
appreciate learning from documentation and man pages.  After some
practice, you can learn to skim the docs and read the important stuff
like basic starting, and necessary.  Look for defaults and hope they
are what you want.  The reading might be long and often boring at
first but after some reading, play with it and then feel free to ask
more questions after you know a bit more about the particular command
you're trying.  The linux HOWTO's are also a very valuable source.
Frankly, I would never gotten my linux stuff going independently many
years ago without having read those things.  Just as important as
reading docs is getting in there and hack around a bit.; practice what
you just learned.  Yes, some docs may require reading several times
before fully comprehending them; then after that, it becomes a
valuable reference when you forget that extra option you need once in
a blue moon.  I had to read the CD-Writing HOWTO several times before
I really caught on to the process.  I'd sure hate to try burning CD's
by trial and error.

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 05:03:44AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> That's exactly what I want.
> I want to be able to solve the problem by trial and error, by guessing and
> not by reading a manual.
> 
> Under Linux, I can't guess a command line parameter.
> If it needs only one parameter, I can guess it but if it needs a lot of
> parameters it will take me a very long time and I may break something.
> 
> In Windows, I can try and if it is something dangerous, it will ask me, do
> you really want to  do xxx?
> And I can cancel, but under Linux, ...
> 
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)
> 
> 
> > There is no fine manuel for winblows.  Online help sux because beby the
> time
> > you find what you need in those long worthless helpfiles, you've already
> > solved your problem.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ari Moisio" <armoi@sci.fi>
> > To: "Speakup mailing list" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 12:43 AM
> > Subject: OT: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux (fwd)
> >
> >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > Octavian Rasnita 03.06.02:
> > >
> > > >Have you heard to read the "fine" manual of Windows, or of MS Office?
> > > >I never heard that.
> > >
> > >   Is there fine manuals for windows at all? At least online helps are
> > > worthless 'cos they repeat same things with more msoft hype than
> > > original problem.
> > >
> > >   Of course there are also a lot of printed books but they are useless
> > > for blind user.
> > >
> > >   In contrast Linux has excellent documentation, both technically
> > > oriented man pages, good howto's and FAQ's. All these are accessible
> > > plain text or html.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 5, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239
> > > ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup