* Amazingly dumb remark about Linux
@ Adam Myrow
` Toby Fisher
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 46+ messages in thread
From: Adam Myrow @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
I overheard part of a conversation at work that made me realize just how
much Microsoft has taken over in computer software. One guy asked his
friend "do you think Linux will ever replace Windows?" His friend replied
"no way! It doesn't have Excel, Word, or Powerpoint!" It was all I could
do to not scream "you idiot! Excel isn't the only spreadsheet. Word
isn't the only word processor." Has Microsoft become so dominant that
people think that "Excel" ans spreadsheet mean the same thing? I sort of
wonder if that guy even knows what a spreadsheet is?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Adam Myrow @ ` Toby Fisher ` Liz Hare ` Ann Parsons ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Wed, 29 May 2002, Adam Myrow wrote: > I overheard part of a conversation at work that made me realize just how > much Microsoft has taken over in computer software. One guy asked his > friend "do you think Linux will ever replace Windows?" His friend replied > "no way! It doesn't have Excel, Word, or Powerpoint!" It was all I could > do to not scream "you idiot! Excel isn't the only spreadsheet. Word > isn't the only word processor." Has Microsoft become so dominant that > people think that "Excel" ans spreadsheet mean the same thing? I sort of > wonder if that guy even knows what a spreadsheet is? Your probably right, unfortunately, imho that's about the only Lotus Notes has these days, to show that alternatives exist. *grin* On a different but connected note, did you know that Apple, if they'd thought about it, could have patented the spreadsheet? In addition, British Telecom claim that they own patent rights on the hyperlink, and are, I'm sure I heard somewhere, currently testing it in the courts, the claim goes back 20 or so years I believe. Cheers. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Toby Fisher @ ` Liz Hare ` Octavian Rasnita 0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Liz Hare @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup > > "no way! It doesn't have Excel, Yeah, right. <smirk> And you can't do real statistics (regressions and anything more complicated) because Excel does some of them wrong, and no one can figure out how because the software isn't open source. Even with other non-open-source stats software, you can learn how it works. Not the M$ kind though. Liz -- Liz Hare, Ph.D. Animal Breeding and Genetics Group Cornell University B47 Morrison Hall Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 255 2380 eh51@cornell.edu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Liz Hare @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Erik Heil ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I don't know. You may be right. However, I am sure that 99.999% of all spreadsheets users (not only excel) don't need complicated things, statistics, etc. And BTW. If someone wants a program for statistics under Windows, there are good program for this task, like SPSS, for example. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Hare" <eh51@cornell.edu> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > > "no way! It doesn't have Excel, > > Yeah, right. <smirk> And you can't do real statistics (regressions and > anything more complicated) because Excel does some of them wrong, and no > one can figure out how because the software isn't open source. Even with > other non-open-source stats software, you can learn how it works. Not the > M$ kind though. > > Liz > > -- > Liz Hare, Ph.D. > Animal Breeding and Genetics Group > Cornell University > B47 Morrison Hall > Ithaca, NY 14850 > (607) 255 2380 > eh51@cornell.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Erik Heil ` Alex Snow ` Octavian Rasnita ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Amazingly dumb remark about Linux jwantz 2 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Erik Heil @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi, Another good program is SAS, which runs on all sorts of computers from mainframes running VM/ESA and OS/390and ZVM to workstations running UNIX and Windblows. --Erik > > -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Erik Heil @ ` Alex Snow ` Octavian Rasnita 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Ware can I get this SAS program? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Heil" <eheil@rcn.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Hi, > Another good program is SAS, which runs on all sorts of computers from > mainframes running VM/ESA and OS/390and ZVM to workstations running UNIX and > Windblows. > --Erik > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Erik Heil ` Alex Snow @ ` Octavian Rasnita 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Is that program made by the German company ( I think with the same name?) Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Heil" <eheil@rcn.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:50 PM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Hi, > Another good program is SAS, which runs on all sorts of computers from > mainframes running VM/ESA and OS/390and ZVM to workstations running UNIX and > Windblows. > --Erik > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita ` Erik Heil @ ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Octavian Rasnita ` Patricia Logan ` Amazingly dumb remark about Linux jwantz 2 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Cecil H. Whitley @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi, Both SAS and SPSS (Statistical Package for the Social Sciences) were born on mainframes. The windows versions are simply ports. The historical spreadsheet program of course is 1.2.3 and/or twin. As for database programs it's d-base. Remember word star? If my memory serves me correct, these were born under cp/m? Cecil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Cecil H. Whitley @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Alex Snow ` Patricia Logan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Of course you're right. Unix was before Windows. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:25 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > Hi, > Both SAS and SPSS (Statistical Package for the Social Sciences) were born on > mainframes. The windows versions are simply ports. The historical > spreadsheet program of course is 1.2.3 and/or twin. As for database > programs it's d-base. Remember word star? If my memory serves me correct, > these were born under cp/m? > > Cecil > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Alex Snow ` Octavian Rasnita 0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup wasn't unix even before msdos? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:31 PM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Of course you're right. > Unix was before Windows. > > Teddy, > orasnita@home.ro > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:25 AM > Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > > > Hi, > > Both SAS and SPSS (Statistical Package for the Social Sciences) were born > on > > mainframes. The windows versions are simply ports. The historical > > spreadsheet program of course is 1.2.3 and/or twin. As for database > > programs it's d-base. Remember word star? If my memory serves me > correct, > > these were born under cp/m? > > > > Cecil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Alex Snow @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Toby Fisher 0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Of course it was. We all know that. Bill Gates didn't like the complicated Unix command line interface and created a more simple one. ... or adopted one because DOS wasn't an original Bill Gates idea. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > wasn't unix even before msdos? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > Of course you're right. > > Unix was before Windows. > > > > Teddy, > > orasnita@home.ro > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:25 AM > > Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > Both SAS and SPSS (Statistical Package for the Social Sciences) were > born > > on > > > mainframes. The windows versions are simply ports. The historical > > > spreadsheet program of course is 1.2.3 and/or twin. As for database > > > programs it's d-base. Remember word star? If my memory serves me > > correct, > > > these were born under cp/m? > > > > > > Cecil > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Toby Fisher 0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote: > Of course it was. > We all know that. > Bill Gates didn't like the complicated Unix command line interface and > created a more simple one. > ... or adopted one because DOS wasn't an original Bill Gates idea. Hahaha, adopted, now that's a term I don't think I've heard to describe the acquisition of the DOS operating system! *smile* Conned, perhaps, stole, maybe, purchased, if you're being really kind, but adopted? Hahaha, not likely! Btw, folks, don't forget that we have all seen the original message before, we don't want or need to see the whole thing, with signatures etc again. Cheers. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Patricia Logan ` DBase Cecil H. Whitley 1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Patricia Logan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi, Cecil, I am a little confused by your message. You mentioned dbase. Does this mean that we are lucky enough to have a dbase version for linux? That would make my day. Pat On Thu, 30 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote: > > Hi, > Both SAS and SPSS (Statistical Package for the Social Sciences) were born on > mainframes. The windows versions are simply ports. The historical > spreadsheet program of course is 1.2.3 and/or twin. As for database > programs it's d-base. Remember word star? If my memory serves me correct, > these were born under cp/m? > > Cecil > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* DBase ` Patricia Logan @ ` Cecil H. Whitley 0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Cecil H. Whitley @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Pat, I don't know of a DBase port to Linux. On the other hand, the were clones some years back. Anything that refers to itself as being x-base compliant should work on DBase files. There's always Berkeley DB, mysql and postgre. Cecil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita ` Erik Heil ` Cecil H. Whitley @ ` jwantz ` Octavian Rasnita 2 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: jwantz @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Teddy, You are kidding right? There were serious scientific and statistical applications on UNIX platforms long before WINDOWS was a gleam in Gates eye. Jim Wantz WB0TFK On Thu, 30 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote: > I don't know. You may be right. > However, I am sure that 99.999% of all spreadsheets users (not only excel) > don't need complicated things, statistics, etc. > > And BTW. If someone wants a program for statistics under Windows, there are > good program for this task, like SPSS, for example. > > Teddy, > orasnita@home.ro > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liz Hare" <eh51@cornell.edu> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:36 AM > Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > > > > > > > "no way! It doesn't have Excel, > > > > Yeah, right. <smirk> And you can't do real statistics (regressions and > > anything more complicated) because Excel does some of them wrong, and no > > one can figure out how because the software isn't open source. Even with > > other non-open-source stats software, you can learn how it works. Not the > > M$ kind though. > > > > Liz > > > > -- > > Liz Hare, Ph.D. > > Animal Breeding and Genetics Group > > Cornell University > > B47 Morrison Hall > > Ithaca, NY 14850 > > (607) 255 2380 > > eh51@cornell.edu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Amazingly dumb remark about Linux jwantz @ ` Octavian Rasnita 0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi, I didn't say that there are no software for statistics for Unix. I said that there are for Windows also, and that there are not very many users of these statistics programs. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: <jwantz@hpcc2.hpcc.noaa.gov> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Hi Teddy, > You are kidding right? There were serious scientific and statistical > applications on UNIX platforms long before WINDOWS was a gleam in Gates > eye. > > Jim Wantz WB0TFK > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote: > > > I don't know. You may be right. > > However, I am sure that 99.999% of all spreadsheets users (not only excel) > > don't need complicated things, statistics, etc. > > > > And BTW. If someone wants a program for statistics under Windows, there are > > good program for this task, like SPSS, for example. > > > > Teddy, > > orasnita@home.ro > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Liz Hare" <eh51@cornell.edu> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 3:36 AM > > Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "no way! It doesn't have Excel, > > > > > > Yeah, right. <smirk> And you can't do real statistics (regressions and > > > anything more complicated) because Excel does some of them wrong, and no > > > one can figure out how because the software isn't open source. Even with > > > other non-open-source stats software, you can learn how it works. Not the > > > M$ kind though. > > > > > > Liz > > > > > > -- > > > Liz Hare, Ph.D. > > > Animal Breeding and Genetics Group > > > Cornell University > > > B47 Morrison Hall > > > Ithaca, NY 14850 > > > (607) 255 2380 > > > eh51@cornell.edu > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Adam Myrow ` Toby Fisher @ ` Ann Parsons ` Igor Gueths ` Octavian Rasnita ` Octavian Rasnita ` Alex Snow 3 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Ann Parsons @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi all, Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux. According to Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS junk. They feel that people can't share files and on nd on. Ann P. -- Ann K. Parsons email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Ann Parsons @ ` Igor Gueths ` Toby Fisher ` Alex Snow ` Octavian Rasnita 1 sibling, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Igor Gueths @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup This is definitely not true. I can accomplish just as much. An example: I can play audio files, burn cds, spool txt to my printer, and use chat progs such as aim in Emacs and irc. I also have proftpd. Try running all that on a Winblows box? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Hi all, > > Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux. According to > Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS junk. > They feel that people can't share files and on nd on. > > Ann P. > > -- > Ann K. Parsons > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Igor Gueths @ ` Toby Fisher ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Wed, 29 May 2002, Igor Gueths wrote: > This is definitely not true. I can accomplish just as much. An > example: I can play audio files, burn cds, spool txt to my printer, > and use chat progs such as aim in Emacs and irc. I also have proftpd. > Try running all that on a Winblows box? No thanks, I don't want to have to try and pick up the pieces. *smile* Cheers. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Igor Gueths ` Toby Fisher @ ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Doesn't aim run under xwindows? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux This is definitely not true. I can accomplish just as much. An example: I can play audio files, burn cds, spool txt to my printer, and use chat progs such as aim in Emacs and irc. I also have proftpd. Try running all that on a Winblows box? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 9:02 PM Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Hi all, > > Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux. According to > Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS junk. > They feel that people can't share files and on nd on. > > Ann P. > > -- > Ann K. Parsons > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Ann Parsons ` Igor Gueths @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup You are absolutely right. That is because nobody care too much to learn Linux newbies. To read the manual is the main advice, and this way, of course they will not understand, and will seem to be stupid, ... and will hate Linux. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:02 AM Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Hi all, > > Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux. According to > Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS junk. > They feel that people can't share files and on nd on. > > Ann P. > > -- > Ann K. Parsons > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." JRRT > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Alex Snow 0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup The only way that I can/will learn any piece of software is to play. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > You are absolutely right. > That is because nobody care too much to learn Linux newbies. > To read the manual is the main advice, and this way, of course they will not > understand, and will seem to be stupid, ... and will hate Linux. > > Teddy, > orasnita@home.ro > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:02 AM > Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > Hi all, > > > > Well, this is one of the main arguments against Linux. According to > > Windows proponents, Linux has no applications that approach MS junk. > > They feel that people can't share files and on nd on. > > > > Ann P. > > > > -- > > Ann K. Parsons > > email: akp@eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." > JRRT > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Adam Myrow ` Toby Fisher ` Ann Parsons @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Alex Snow 3 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Yes you're right. However, I think that guy wanted to tell something like "No, I don't like Linux because it doesn't have the software I know to work with, and I don't want to start learning another application for the same task.... Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Myrow" <myrow@eskimo.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 1:54 AM Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > I overheard part of a conversation at work that made me realize just how > much Microsoft has taken over in computer software. One guy asked his > friend "do you think Linux will ever replace Windows?" His friend replied > "no way! It doesn't have Excel, Word, or Powerpoint!" It was all I could > do to not scream "you idiot! Excel isn't the only spreadsheet. Word > isn't the only word processor." Has Microsoft become so dominant that > people think that "Excel" ans spreadsheet mean the same thing? I sort of > wonder if that guy even knows what a spreadsheet is? > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Adam Myrow ` (2 preceding siblings ...) ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Alex Snow ` Toby Fisher 3 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Wow! That's one of the top 10 dumb computer things I've heard, ranking right up next to the guy who used his cdrom as a cupholder. I can think of two spredsheets for linux, the one for emacs, and the one in staroffice. They both are comprable to excel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Myrow" <myrow@eskimo.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:54 PM Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > I overheard part of a conversation at work that made me realize just how > much Microsoft has taken over in computer software. One guy asked his > friend "do you think Linux will ever replace Windows?" His friend replied > "no way! It doesn't have Excel, Word, or Powerpoint!" It was all I could > do to not scream "you idiot! Excel isn't the only spreadsheet. Word > isn't the only word processor." Has Microsoft become so dominant that > people think that "Excel" ans spreadsheet mean the same thing? I sort of > wonder if that guy even knows what a spreadsheet is? > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Alex Snow @ ` Toby Fisher ` Alex Snow 0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Thu, 30 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote: > Wow! That's one of the top 10 dumb computer things I've heard, ranking right > up next to the guy who used his cdrom as a cupholder. The cup holder was reasonably common in the mid-90s, when cdrom drives were slow enough or it to make sense. Still, you should forward the Windows ME comment to Rinkworks, I'm sure it'll make their computer stupidities pages. Cheers. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Toby Fisher @ ` Alex Snow 0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Yeah, just the title "linux doesn't work with windows me" Sounds stupid enough. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Toby Fisher" <toby_fisher@bigfoot.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:56 PM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote: > > > Wow! That's one of the top 10 dumb computer things I've heard, ranking right > > up next to the guy who used his cdrom as a cupholder. > > The cup holder was reasonably common in the mid-90s, when cdrom drives > were slow enough or it to make sense. Still, you should forward the > Windows ME comment to Rinkworks, I'm sure it'll make their computer > stupidities pages. > > Cheers. > > -- > Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk > Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 > ICQ: #61744808 > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. > See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
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* Amazingly dumb remark about Linux [not found] <E17DHWi-0003q4-00@speech.braille.uwo.ca> @ ` Thomas Ward ` Octavian Rasnita ` Alex Snow 0 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Thomas Ward @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I think the best approach to tell them was did they know you can import Word and Excel 2000 documents in Star Office 6.0 with Star Writer and Starcalc? Oh, and then of course resave them in Microtrash format when done editing it. Shows stupidity. However, they do have a point there. Every college I've went into as a class requirement you must use MS Word, MS Excel, MS access or they flunk you. sounds like descrimination to me. Why not Wordperfect, Quatro pro, Star Writer, etc? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Thomas Ward @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Gregory Nowak ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Yes, of course it means discrimination. Microsoft pays a lot of money and makes a lot of lobby, not only in USA, but in some other countries where this "lobby" is illegal. They give free computers and software to high schools and provide free manuals. They also offer some benefits to the teachers to make them like teaching Microsoft's products. Why should someone bother to teach Linux for free with no benefits. This is now, but after more years, those kids will know only Microsoft's products, and this is what they will choose. I hope Linux will be more friendly one day, and I hope it will beat Windows, but for this to happen, I hope it will appear more games for Linux, more viruses, software that it is not open source, pirated software, etc. This means that a lot of people are interested in it. Now, why to import an excel spreadsheet into another applications that nobody knows to use it? Let's say a guy knows to use the spreadsheets under Linux very well. How many companies do you think it will employ him? Most of the companies won't employ him, because they know that they will need to install Linux, and the other employees don't know to use it And Linux is harder to learn and that company don't want to spend a lot of time, so to get a job, that guy needs to learn what most of the people use. And that is Windows. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" <slingshooter@valkyrie.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:40 AM Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > I think the best approach to tell them was did they know you can import Word > and Excel 2000 documents in Star Office 6.0 with Star Writer and Starcalc? > Oh, and then of course resave them in Microtrash format when done editing > it. Shows stupidity. However, they do have a point there. > Every college I've went into as a class requirement you must use MS Word, MS > Excel, MS access or they flunk you. sounds like descrimination to me. Why > not Wordperfect, Quatro pro, Star Writer, etc? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Octavian Rasnita ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Cecil H. Whitley @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Teddy, I must disagree with you about companies not using Linux. I saw stats earlier today that up to 40% of the companies in the U.S. are now using Linux for some applications. MicroSoft is expected to lose 18% of it's market share over the next two years to Star Office and it's free counterpart OpenOffice. Now, just because Linux isn't friendly to blind users for it's GUI doesn't mean that there is no GUI. There are games for Linux btw, they're the same games that there are for windows, because they are the windows games! Check out wine-x by transgaming, not that it will do you any good. Remember, you being blind are a minority. Wine is not up to the glorious 1.0 yet, but there are commercial products based on it that are doing okay for themselves. You may also wish to check out lindows.com. Is Linux a minority? Yes! Are you a minority Linux user? Yes! That's two strikes against you, but do not generalize that to the product itself. You can't speak for the sighted world because unfortunately you're no longer a part of it. Does any of this help you? No, but that does not prevent it from being the truth. Linux now has some serious backing, IBM, HP, Sun, a large customer base is being installed in the governments of various countries including France, Germany, Brazil, China and the United States and Canada. IBM has picked up several major corporate customers for Linux over the past two weeks. They include Roiters, Sherwin Williams and I can't remember the third one to save my life.... They also sold some serious computing power to the Air Force this week, or at least they announced it this week. Linux is a viable product and is probably here to stay whether or not the GUI is ever made accessable. In fact, the NSA has it's own secure version of Linux for use within security sensative areas. Regards, Cecil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Cecil H. Whitley @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Alex Snow 0 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Do you really think 40% of the companies use Linux in USA? I don't think so. And anyway, I don't think you believe that 40% of USA companies use only Linux and no Windows. 1. Most of them use Linux only as a server for the internet because it is better in this field. 2. I believe there are a lot of companies that use only Windows and don't have a private web or FTP or mail server. How many companies do you think that don't use Windows at all? You will probably tell me that Linux is in fact used by more companies that those who use Windows. If 40% of the companies use Linux, another part use OS2, another part use Macintosh, etc, how many Windows users are there? Microsoft will lose from its market share? I hope you're right. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:21 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Hi Teddy, > I must disagree with you about companies not using Linux. I saw stats > earlier today that up to 40% of the companies in the U.S. are now using > Linux for some applications. MicroSoft is expected to lose 18% of it's > market share over the next two years to Star Office and it's free > counterpart OpenOffice. > > Now, just because Linux isn't friendly to blind users for it's GUI doesn't > mean that there is no GUI. There are games for Linux btw, they're the same > games that there are for windows, because they are the windows games! Check > out wine-x by transgaming, not that it will do you any good. Remember, you > being blind are a minority. Wine is not up to the glorious 1.0 yet, but > there are commercial products based on it that are doing okay for > themselves. You may also wish to check out lindows.com. Is Linux a > minority? Yes! Are you a minority Linux user? Yes! That's two strikes > against you, but do not generalize that to the product itself. You can't > speak for the sighted world because unfortunately you're no longer a part of > it. Does any of this help you? No, but that does not prevent it from being > the truth. > > Linux now has some serious backing, IBM, HP, Sun, a large customer base is > being installed in the governments of various countries including France, > Germany, Brazil, China and the United States and Canada. IBM has picked up > several major corporate customers for Linux over the past two weeks. They > include Roiters, Sherwin Williams and I can't remember the third one to save > my life.... They also sold some serious computing power to the Air Force > this week, or at least they announced it this week. Linux is a viable > product and is probably here to stay whether or not the GUI is ever made > accessable. In fact, the NSA has it's own secure version of Linux for use > within security sensative areas. > Regards, > Cecil > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Octavian Rasnita ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Cecil H. Whitley @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Teddy, The statement that 40% of companies use Linux is as far as I know accurate. This does not mean that they use it for all their users desktops, that obviously is not the case. M.S. has the desktop market fairly wrapped up. They are however using Linux (and unix for that matter) based servers. There are instances where Linux desktops are being used also though. Industrial Light and Magic replaced their SGI workstations with Linux, as did Jim Hinson's company (ya know, the muppets, kermit and company). Apparently Linux makes one heck of a graphics editing platform. In my previous email I cited a couple major customers that IBM is converting over to Linux. This trend is accelerating. Even M.S. realizes that Linux and the opensource community is their biggest threat. Cecil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Cecil H. Whitley @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Igor Gueths 0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Here I agree 100% I also think Linux is better than Windows if it is used as a server. But as a desktop, ... Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:20 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Teddy, > The statement that 40% of companies use Linux is as far as I know accurate. > This does not mean that they use it for all their users desktops, that > obviously is not the case. M.S. has the desktop market fairly wrapped up. > They are however using Linux (and unix for that matter) based servers. > There are instances where Linux desktops are being used also though. > Industrial Light and Magic replaced their SGI workstations with Linux, as > did Jim Hinson's company (ya know, the muppets, kermit and company). > Apparently Linux makes one heck of a graphics editing platform. In my > previous email I cited a couple major customers that IBM is converting over > to Linux. This trend is accelerating. Even M.S. realizes that Linux and > the opensource community is their biggest threat. > > Cecil > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Igor Gueths 0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Igor Gueths @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Teddy. I like Linux as a desktop. I use it every day and some days like now, I don't even turn on my winblows laptop. Just goes to show you that desktop functionality is indeed possible under Linux. Gates go to hell, your OS is waiting for you there! On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote: > Here I agree 100% > I also think Linux is better than Windows if it is used as a server. > But as a desktop, ... > > Teddy, > orasnita@home.ro > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:20 AM > Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > Teddy, > > The statement that 40% of companies use Linux is as far as I know > accurate. > > This does not mean that they use it for all their users desktops, that > > obviously is not the case. M.S. has the desktop market fairly wrapped up. > > They are however using Linux (and unix for that matter) based servers. > > There are instances where Linux desktops are being used also though. > > Industrial Light and Magic replaced their SGI workstations with Linux, as > > did Jim Hinson's company (ya know, the muppets, kermit and company). > > Apparently Linux makes one heck of a graphics editing platform. In my > > previous email I cited a couple major customers that IBM is converting > over > > to Linux. This trend is accelerating. Even M.S. realizes that Linux and > > the opensource community is their biggest threat. > > > > Cecil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita ` Cecil H. Whitley @ ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I don't know any companies that use all macks. Macks really suck so I don't blame them. The school district I'm in used to use all pcs, runing winblows nt and an nt server. Mack gave them a deal, and now we're using about half and half. The mack side is down about 75% of the time, the pcs are down about 15 percent. If they switched to linux, both sides could use the same server, and downtime would be decreased. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@home.ro> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:59 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Do you really think 40% of the companies use Linux in USA? > I don't think so. And anyway, I don't think you believe that 40% of USA > companies use only Linux and no Windows. > 1. Most of them use Linux only as a server for the internet because it is > better in this field. > 2. I believe there are a lot of companies that use only Windows and don't > have a private web or FTP or mail server. > > How many companies do you think that don't use Windows at all? > > You will probably tell me that Linux is in fact used by more companies that > those who use Windows. > > If 40% of the companies use Linux, another part use OS2, another part use > Macintosh, etc, how many Windows users are there? > > Microsoft will lose from its market share? > I hope you're right. > > > Teddy, > orasnita@home.ro > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:21 AM > Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > Hi Teddy, > > I must disagree with you about companies not using Linux. I saw stats > > earlier today that up to 40% of the companies in the U.S. are now using > > Linux for some applications. MicroSoft is expected to lose 18% of it's > > market share over the next two years to Star Office and it's free > > counterpart OpenOffice. > > > > Now, just because Linux isn't friendly to blind users for it's GUI doesn't > > mean that there is no GUI. There are games for Linux btw, they're the > same > > games that there are for windows, because they are the windows games! > Check > > out wine-x by transgaming, not that it will do you any good. Remember, > you > > being blind are a minority. Wine is not up to the glorious 1.0 yet, but > > there are commercial products based on it that are doing okay for > > themselves. You may also wish to check out lindows.com. Is Linux a > > minority? Yes! Are you a minority Linux user? Yes! That's two strikes > > against you, but do not generalize that to the product itself. You can't > > speak for the sighted world because unfortunately you're no longer a part > of > > it. Does any of this help you? No, but that does not prevent it from > being > > the truth. > > > > Linux now has some serious backing, IBM, HP, Sun, a large customer base is > > being installed in the governments of various countries including France, > > Germany, Brazil, China and the United States and Canada. IBM has picked > up > > several major corporate customers for Linux over the past two weeks. They > > include Roiters, Sherwin Williams and I can't remember the third one to > save > > my life.... They also sold some serious computing power to the Air Force > > this week, or at least they announced it this week. Linux is a viable > > product and is probably here to stay whether or not the GUI is ever made > > accessable. In fact, the NSA has it's own secure version of Linux for use > > within security sensative areas. > > Regards, > > Cecil > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita ` Cecil H. Whitley @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Toby Fisher ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I agree with what you say. However, if I understand you correctly, why do you want viruses for Linux to exist? Greg On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 10:39:38AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote: > Yes, of course it means discrimination. > Microsoft pays a lot of money and makes a lot of lobby, not only in USA, but > in some other countries where this "lobby" is illegal. > They give free computers and software to high schools and provide free > manuals. > They also offer some benefits to the teachers to make them like teaching > Microsoft's products. > > Why should someone bother to teach Linux for free with no benefits. > > This is now, but after more years, those kids will know only Microsoft's > products, and this is what they will choose. > > I hope Linux will be more friendly one day, and I hope it will beat Windows, > but for this to happen, I hope it will appear more games for Linux, more > viruses, software that it is not open source, pirated software, etc. > > This means that a lot of people are interested in it. > > Now, why to import an excel spreadsheet into another applications that > nobody knows to use it? > Let's say a guy knows to use the spreadsheets under Linux very well. How > many companies do you think it will employ him? > Most of the companies won't employ him, because they know that they will > need to install Linux, and the other employees don't know to use it > And Linux is harder to learn and that company don't want to spend a lot of > time, so to get a job, that guy needs to learn what most of the people use. > And that is Windows. > > Teddy, > orasnita@home.ro > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Ward" <slingshooter@valkyrie.net> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:40 AM > Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > I think the best approach to tell them was did they know you can import > Word > > and Excel 2000 documents in Star Office 6.0 with Star Writer and Starcalc? > > Oh, and then of course resave them in Microtrash format when done editing > > it. Shows stupidity. However, they do have a point there. > > Every college I've went into as a class requirement you must use MS Word, > MS > > Excel, MS access or they flunk you. sounds like descrimination to me. Why > > not Wordperfect, Quatro pro, Star Writer, etc? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Toby Fisher ` Adam Myrow ` Octavian Rasnita 2 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Thu, 30 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote: > I agree with what you say. However, if I understand you correctly, why > do you want viruses for Linux to exist? Actually, from 1 perspective, it's actually quite logical. If people are bothering to spend the time writing viri for something, it must be sufficiently popular to warrant their time, which is why first DOS, and now Windows, have been the main transmition media. HTH -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Gregory Nowak ` Toby Fisher @ ` Adam Myrow ` Octavian Rasnita ` Toby Fisher ` Octavian Rasnita 2 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Adam Myrow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Thu, 30 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote: > I agree with what you say. However, if I understand you correctly, why > do you want viruses for Linux to exist? I think he believes that only popular operating systems have viruses. This is so boneheaded! Only insecure operating systems like Windows have viruses. Sure, viruses could be written for Linux, but most would require that you run them as root, which any sensable person won't do. The problem with Windows is that everybody has the equivilent of root power in the home versions that are most common. Also, Microsoft made their email clients capable of executing VB script and such which opened a huge can of worms. To me, those are the fundamental problems with windows not counting Microsoft being nearly a monopoly. Any user can trash their system without trying. In Linux, you don't trash the system unless you spend all your time logged in as root. As long as you are a normal user, you can't destroy your own system through a wrong command. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Adam Myrow @ ` Octavian Rasnita ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Toby Fisher 1 sibling, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Do you know that there are security features for Windows also? I am not talking about Windows 9X systems, of course. I am using Windows 2000 and you can set an NTFS partition with more rights for each folder or file than under Linux. You can log in as another user with less rights to delete or edit files and a virus will have the same rights like you, like in Linux. Of course, a virus can delete a lot of files in Windows but only in some directories where the users has the right to write, but ... it is the same in Linux. But we are talking about Windows again on a list for Linux. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Myrow" <myrow@eskimo.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:47 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > > I agree with what you say. However, if I understand you correctly, why > > do you want viruses for Linux to exist? > > I think he believes that only popular operating systems have viruses. > This is so boneheaded! Only insecure operating systems like Windows have > viruses. Sure, viruses could be written for Linux, but most would require > that you run them as root, which any sensable person won't do. The > problem with Windows is that everybody has the equivilent of root power in > the home versions that are most common. Also, Microsoft made their email > clients capable of executing VB script and such which opened a huge can of > worms. To me, those are the fundamental problems with windows not > counting Microsoft being nearly a monopoly. Any user can trash their > system without trying. In Linux, you don't trash the system unless you > spend all your time logged in as root. As long as you are a normal user, > you can't destroy your own system through a wrong command. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Cecil H. Whitley ` Octavian Rasnita 0 siblings, 1 reply; 46+ messages in thread From: Cecil H. Whitley @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Hi Teddy, > Do you know that there are security features for Windows also? > I am not talking about Windows 9X systems, of course. > I am using Windows 2000 and you can set an NTFS partition with more rights > for each folder or file than under Linux. > You can log in as another user with less rights to delete or edit files and > a virus will have the same rights like you, like in Linux. I must disagree with this statement. There is a well-known vulnerability in NT/2K that allows you to gain local admin priviledges by writing a specific value to a specific memory location. It is fairly well documented and most sites that deal with exploits for M.S. os's should be able to provide the location and sample code to actually exploit the flaw. M.S. released a patch, but it just shifted the memory location, which was found again. Bottom line, as long as they use a memory flag that can be accessed by "user space" programs (to use the unix/Linux term) they will continue to be insecure against anything with "local" access. Cecil ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Cecil H. Whitley @ ` Octavian Rasnita 0 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Maybe, I don't know, I am not an expert in security, but take a look at www.astalavista.com and you will see more links about how to "Crack Linux" Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:11 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > Hi Teddy, > > > Do you know that there are security features for Windows also? > > I am not talking about Windows 9X systems, of course. > > I am using Windows 2000 and you can set an NTFS partition with more rights > > for each folder or file than under Linux. > > You can log in as another user with less rights to delete or edit files > and > > a virus will have the same rights like you, like in Linux. > I must disagree with this statement. There is a well-known vulnerability in > NT/2K that allows you to gain local admin priviledges by writing a specific > value to a specific memory location. It is fairly well documented and most > sites that deal with exploits for M.S. os's should be able to provide the > location and sample code to actually exploit the flaw. M.S. released a > patch, but it just shifted the memory location, which was found again. > Bottom line, as long as they use a memory flag that can be accessed by "user > space" programs (to use the unix/Linux term) they will continue to be > insecure against anything with "local" access. > Cecil > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Adam Myrow ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Toby Fisher 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Toby Fisher @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup On Thu, 30 May 2002, Adam Myrow wrote: > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > > I agree with what you say. However, if I understand you correctly, why > > do you want viruses for Linux to exist? > > I think he believes that only popular operating systems have viruses. > This is so boneheaded! Only insecure operating systems like Windows have > viruses. Sure, viruses could be written for Linux, but most would require > that you run them as root, which any sensable person won't do. The > problem with Windows is that everybody has the equivilent of root power in > the home versions that are most common. Also, Microsoft made their email > clients capable of executing VB script and such which opened a huge can of > worms. To me, those are the fundamental problems with windows not > counting Microsoft being nearly a monopoly. Any user can trash their > system without trying. In Linux, you don't trash the system unless you > spend all your time logged in as root. As long as you are a normal user, > you can't destroy your own system through a wrong command. No, but there was a shell script written which acted as a virus, or worm. It was only written to prove a theory in a lab, but it managed to escape, oops. Also, an insecure unix system can be potentially much more damaging, just look at Code Red. Cheers. -- Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239 ICQ: #61744808 Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Gregory Nowak ` Toby Fisher ` Adam Myrow @ ` Octavian Rasnita 2 siblings, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Octavian Rasnita @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Ha ha, of course I don't like to have viruses, but I want viruses to exist. There are a lot of bad guys there. Maybe girls also? And all these guys want to make bad things, of course. They don't want to make viruses for only a few Linux users. They want to make viruses for millions of Windows users. I think this is the main reason. Maybe a virus for Linux is harder to write than for Windows, I don't know, but I don't think it is impossible. So I would like to exist viruses because this means a lot of Linux users, but a lot of Linux games also helps, and maybe more. Teddy, orasnita@home.ro ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:24 AM Subject: Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > I agree with what you say. However, if I understand you correctly, why do you want viruses for Linux to exist? > Greg > > > On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 10:39:38AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote: > > Yes, of course it means discrimination. > > Microsoft pays a lot of money and makes a lot of lobby, not only in USA, but > > in some other countries where this "lobby" is illegal. > > They give free computers and software to high schools and provide free > > manuals. > > They also offer some benefits to the teachers to make them like teaching > > Microsoft's products. > > > > Why should someone bother to teach Linux for free with no benefits. > > > > This is now, but after more years, those kids will know only Microsoft's > > products, and this is what they will choose. > > > > I hope Linux will be more friendly one day, and I hope it will beat Windows, > > but for this to happen, I hope it will appear more games for Linux, more > > viruses, software that it is not open source, pirated software, etc. > > > > This means that a lot of people are interested in it. > > > > Now, why to import an excel spreadsheet into another applications that > > nobody knows to use it? > > Let's say a guy knows to use the spreadsheets under Linux very well. How > > many companies do you think it will employ him? > > Most of the companies won't employ him, because they know that they will > > need to install Linux, and the other employees don't know to use it > > And Linux is harder to learn and that company don't want to spend a lot of > > time, so to get a job, that guy needs to learn what most of the people use. > > And that is Windows. > > > > Teddy, > > orasnita@home.ro > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Thomas Ward" <slingshooter@valkyrie.net> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:40 AM > > Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > > > > > > > I think the best approach to tell them was did they know you can import > > Word > > > and Excel 2000 documents in Star Office 6.0 with Star Writer and Starcalc? > > > Oh, and then of course resave them in Microtrash format when done editing > > > it. Shows stupidity. However, they do have a point there. > > > Every college I've went into as a class requirement you must use MS Word, > > MS > > > Excel, MS access or they flunk you. sounds like descrimination to me. Why > > > not Wordperfect, Quatro pro, Star Writer, etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux ` Thomas Ward ` Octavian Rasnita @ ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Is Staroffice for winblows any accessable? last time I tried it, it wasn't. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" <slingshooter@valkyrie.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:40 AM Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > I think the best approach to tell them was did they know you can import Word > and Excel 2000 documents in Star Office 6.0 with Star Writer and Starcalc? > Oh, and then of course resave them in Microtrash format when done editing > it. Shows stupidity. However, they do have a point there. > Every college I've went into as a class requirement you must use MS Word, MS > Excel, MS access or they flunk you. sounds like descrimination to me. Why > not Wordperfect, Quatro pro, Star Writer, etc? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Amazingly dumb remark about Linux @ Thomas Ward ` Gregory Nowak ` Alex Snow 0 siblings, 2 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Thomas Ward @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup While on this subject here is one I recently read. Man I don't know to laugh or feel sorrow for the guy.The guy obviously never heard of Linux, or knows 0 except Microshaft. Linux doesn't support Windows ME , June 15, 2001 Reviewer: A gamer from Pittsburgh, PA United States I purchased Linux 100 Great games and it arrived today on 6/15/01. I wasn't interested in playing the games for myself. The reason why I purchased the cd is that my son's, who are 18 and 20, love to play video games. I thought these 100 great games were a good value for the price. And there would be plenty of games they could play when they visit here at my home. I am in shock! I tried to install the cd titles, but unfortunately they don't support Windows ME, and my attemps were unsuccessful. Linux 100 Great Games only runs in MS-DOS mode. I knew that I should haven't opened the package and mailed it back for a refund. I am sorry that I had purchased this game pack. Is anyone interested in buying this from me? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Thomas Ward @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup What! Boy, oh boy. Greg On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 02:50:13AM -0400, Thomas Ward wrote: > While on this subject here is one I recently read. Man I don't > know to laugh or feel sorrow for the guy.The guy obviously never heard of > Linux, or knows 0 except Microshaft. > > Linux doesn't support Windows ME > , June 15, 2001 > Reviewer: A gamer from Pittsburgh, PA United States > I purchased Linux 100 Great games and it arrived today on 6/15/01. I wasn't > interested > in playing the games for myself. The reason why I purchased the cd is that > my son's, > who are 18 and 20, love to play video games. I thought these 100 great games > were > a good value for the price. And there would be plenty of games they could > play when > they visit here at my home. I am in shock! I tried to install the cd titles, > but > unfortunately they don't support Windows ME, and my attemps were > unsuccessful. Linux > 100 Great Games only runs in MS-DOS mode. I knew that I should haven't > opened the > package and mailed it back for a refund. I am sorry that I had purchased > this game > pack. Is anyone interested in buying this from me? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
* Re: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Thomas Ward ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Alex Snow 1 sibling, 0 replies; 46+ messages in thread From: Alex Snow @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup A. What is he stupid? Doesn't the title "linux greate games" mean something? b. Linux software won't work in dos mode iether. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" <slingshooter@valkyrie.net> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:50 AM Subject: Amazingly dumb remark about Linux > While on this subject here is one I recently read. Man I don't > know to laugh or feel sorrow for the guy.The guy obviously never heard of > Linux, or knows 0 except Microshaft. > > Linux doesn't support Windows ME > , June 15, 2001 > Reviewer: A gamer from Pittsburgh, PA United States > I purchased Linux 100 Great games and it arrived today on 6/15/01. I wasn't > interested > in playing the games for myself. The reason why I purchased the cd is that > my son's, > who are 18 and 20, love to play video games. I thought these 100 great games > were > a good value for the price. And there would be plenty of games they could > play when > they visit here at my home. I am in shock! I tried to install the cd titles, > but > unfortunately they don't support Windows ME, and my attemps were > unsuccessful. Linux > 100 Great Games only runs in MS-DOS mode. I knew that I should haven't > opened the > package and mailed it back for a refund. I am sorry that I had purchased > this game > pack. Is anyone interested in buying this from me? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 46+ messages in thread
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Amazingly dumb remark about Linux Adam Myrow
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