* FW: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
@ Stephen Dawes
` Victor Tsaran
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Stephen Dawes @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup@Braille. Uwo. Ca
Recently, there was an article on this list, I believe, that talked about
"Linux on the Desktop".
Here is an interesting rebuttal to that article.
Enjoy!
Stephen Dawes B.A. B.Sc.
Web Business Office, The City of Calgary
PHONE: (403) 268-5527.
FAX: (403) 268-6423
E-MAIL ADDRESS: sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca
Internet: http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: OpenSource@bdcimail.com [mailto:OpenSource@bdcimail.com]
Sent: 2001 June 27 10:07 AM
To: sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca
Subject: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
Wednesday, June 27, 2001
========================================================
NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" InfoWorld.com
========================================================
Wednesday, June 27, 2001
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WHY THE LINUX DESKTOP?
Posted at June 22, 2001 01:01 PM PST Pacific
LAST WEEK I noted that the battle for open-source
advocates is not one for the desktop (see The Open
Source, June 18). Be that as it may, Microsoft is
obviously threatened by Linux on the desktop, as
evidenced by the rash of articles in various Web and
trade publications on this very topic, most of which
proclaim that Linux will never make it in this category.
Allow me to punch a few holes in the conventional
wisdom. Item No. 1: You shouldn't choose Linux just
because you hate Microsoft.
Despite what the Microsoft toadies may say, hating
Microsoft is an excellent reason to choose Linux. It
wouldn't be if there weren't so many good reasons to
hate Microsoft. But there are.
Let's start with how the company's lust for control
over the market takes precedence over the well-being
and security of its customers. For example, Microsoft
is hard at work devising ways to lock you into a
system where you pay on a continual basis to use a
Microsoft application. Microsoft is not doing this
because it is the best solution for its customers.
Microsoft is simply running out of ways to entice you
to pay for upgrades to its cash-cow applications. If
that doesn't elicit a feeling of righteous indignation
when you get your next blue screen of death or lose
data to an e-mail Trojan horse, I don't know what will.
Better yet, look at Microsoft's despicable, standard
modus operandi. Microsoft makes it standard practice
to say whatever it must to gain the confidence of its
prospective customers. But what Microsoft says is not
what Microsoft does. For example, Microsoft pretends
to promote standards such as Kerberos to convince its
customers that Windows will interoperate well with
other platforms. But Microsoft actually manipulates
the Kerberos standard with proprietary extensions to
retain control over the customers it captures.
The operative word here is confidence, which is where
the expression con man comes from. Con men can only
succeed if they gain the undeserved confidence of
their prey. If that's the kind of company you want to
defend and patronize, be my guest. But who then is the
fool -- the Microsoft customer who continues to pay
through the nose for crappy software or the satisfied
Linux customer who chose Linux because he or she hates
Microsoft?
Item No. 2: Linux is too complicated. Bzzt. KDE 2.1 is
amazingly simple and yet is powerful and flexible.
Granted, it is sometimes more difficult to administer
a Linux box than a Windows box, but users shouldn't
have to administer any box. And Linux makes that
easier to enforce than do most versions of Windows.
One reason Windows is difficult to administer is
because users can easily screw it up. With Linux, I
set up a box, create an account, and hand the box to
the user. The user doesn't have to deal with the
administration programs and doesn't even have enough
privileges to use (or abuse) them. Shall I go on? Let
me know.
Nick is the founding editor of VarLinux.org
(www.varlinux.org). Reach
him at nicholas @petreley.com.
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* Red Hat to announce open-source database app
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eli
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Copyright 2001 InfoWorld Media Group Inc.
This message was sent to: sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
FW: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001 Stephen Dawes
@ ` Victor Tsaran
` David Poehlman
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Victor Tsaran @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
I think this is a very interesting article. How do we, VIP, benefit from the
powerful and yet easy-to-use KDE version 2.1? Unfortunately, we can see it
happening more often that more and more programs are written for X-Window.
Don't tell me there are console alternatives for every GUI program, this is
no longer true. MSAA for Linux is what we need!
Best,
Vic
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` Victor Tsaran
@ ` David Poehlman
` Janina Sajka
` Kirk Wood
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: David Poehlman @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
one thing we have going for us is that linnux is variant unlike windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
Wednesday, June 27, 2001
I think this is a very interesting article. How do we, VIP, benefit from
the
powerful and yet easy-to-use KDE version 2.1? Unfortunately, we can see
it
happening more often that more and more programs are written for
X-Window.
Don't tell me there are console alternatives for every GUI program, this
is
no longer true. MSAA for Linux is what we need!
Best,
Vic
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` David Poehlman
@ ` Janina Sajka
` David Poehlman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
> one thing we have going for us is that linnux is variant unlike windows.
Huh? What do you mean, "variant?" This sentence makes no sense.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> MSAA for Linux is what we need!
Gag me with a spoon.
Please don't wish the failings of M$ on us. We don't need any such thing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` Janina Sajka
@ ` David Poehlman
` Janina Sajka
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: David Poehlman @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
in other words, we have much more flexibility with linnux in flavours
and in the way it is set up and compiled. windows is well, windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
Wednesday, June 27, 2001
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
> one thing we have going for us is that linnux is variant unlike
windows.
Huh? What do you mean, "variant?" This sentence makes no sense.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> MSAA for Linux is what we need!
Gag me with a spoon.
Please don't wish the failings of M$ on us. We don't need any such
thing.
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` David Poehlman
@ ` Janina Sajka
` David Poehlman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Ah, you see variety in how computer tasks are handled under linux, and no
variety under Windows. Not sure that "variant" is the same meaning.
On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
> in other words, we have much more flexibility with linnux in flavours
> and in the way it is set up and compiled. windows is well, windows.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
> Wednesday, June 27, 2001
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
>
> > one thing we have going for us is that linnux is variant unlike
> windows.
>
> Huh? What do you mean, "variant?" This sentence makes no sense.
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
>
> > MSAA for Linux is what we need!
>
> Gag me with a spoon.
>
> Please don't wish the failings of M$ on us. We don't need any such
> thing.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
--
Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org
Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html
Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
Learn how to make accessible software at http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` Janina Sajka
@ ` David Poehlman
` Using an appropriate USB 56k modem Will Smith
` NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001 Gregory Nowak
0 siblings, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: David Poehlman @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
I agree, it was a poor choice of words. I actually see variety in the
way the os can be implemented since it can be directly interacted with
more easily than windows can.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
Wednesday, June 27, 2001
Ah, you see variety in how computer tasks are handled under linux, and
no
variety under Windows. Not sure that "variant" is the same meaning.
On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
> in other words, we have much more flexibility with linnux in flavours
> and in the way it is set up and compiled. windows is well, windows.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
> Wednesday, June 27, 2001
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
>
> > one thing we have going for us is that linnux is variant unlike
> windows.
>
> Huh? What do you mean, "variant?" This sentence makes no sense.
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
>
> > MSAA for Linux is what we need!
>
> Gag me with a spoon.
>
> Please don't wish the failings of M$ on us. We don't need any such
> thing.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
--
Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org
Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html
Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Using an appropriate USB 56k modem
` David Poehlman
@ ` Will Smith
` Ann Parsons
` NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001 Gregory Nowak
1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Will Smith @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Hello all,
Unfortunately my PC comes with one of those dreadful win modems.
I'm wondering if anyone here can recommend a 56k USB modem that will work
with most popular flavors of linux. Specific models and possible
dealers/pricing welcomed.
Will
wilsmith@iglou.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` David Poehlman
` Using an appropriate USB 56k modem Will Smith
@ ` Gregory Nowak
` Frank Carmickle
` (2 more replies)
1 sibling, 3 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
I'm a big fan of Linux.
However, I consider using shortcut keys and
keyboard clicking mouse buttons far easier
then typing commands--even
with the tab and arrow keys.
Greg
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 02:19:31PM -0400, David Poehlman wrote:
> I agree, it was a poor choice of words. I actually see variety in the
> way the os can be implemented since it can be directly interacted with
> more easily than windows can.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
> Wednesday, June 27, 2001
>
>
> Ah, you see variety in how computer tasks are handled under linux, and
> no
> variety under Windows. Not sure that "variant" is the same meaning.
>
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
>
> > in other words, we have much more flexibility with linnux in flavours
> > and in the way it is set up and compiled. windows is well, windows.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
> > Wednesday, June 27, 2001
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
> >
> > > one thing we have going for us is that linnux is variant unlike
> > windows.
> >
> > Huh? What do you mean, "variant?" This sentence makes no sense.
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> >
> > > MSAA for Linux is what we need!
> >
> > Gag me with a spoon.
> >
> > Please don't wish the failings of M$ on us. We don't need any such
> > thing.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
> Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
> Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html
>
> Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
> King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
> http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
>
> Learn how to make accessible software at
> http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001 Gregory Nowak
@ ` Frank Carmickle
` Gregory Nowak
` Geoff Shang
` David Poehlman
2 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Frank Carmickle @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Greg
On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> I'm a big fan of Linux.
> However, I consider using shortcut keys and
> keyboard clicking mouse buttons far easier
> then typing commands--even
> with the tab and arrow keys.
Yeah but how long did it take you to write the scripts to be able to click
those buttons? And how many times did you resort to using the menus of a
program when you could have just written a script that would do what you
want. Perfect examples are cdrecording packages. I have learned my
lesson. I came from an all windows background. The first day I used a
Linux machine I had to compile a kernel. The freedom I would never give
up. I now hate that point and click stuff. I was once like you. We all
like what is familiar. Once you get used to using a shell you will be
much happier.
--
Frank Carmickle
phone: 412 761-9568
email: frankiec@dryrose.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` Frank Carmickle
@ ` Gregory Nowak
0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
I didn't write them at all, I let Gwmicro do that.
All I had to do is dish out $595 (grin).
Greg
On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 01:31:29AM -0400, Frank Carmickle wrote:
> Greg
>
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > I'm a big fan of Linux.
> > However, I consider using shortcut keys and
> > keyboard clicking mouse buttons far easier
> > then typing commands--even
> > with the tab and arrow keys.
>
> Yeah but how long did it take you to write the scripts to be able to click
> those buttons? And how many times did you resort to using the menus of a
> program when you could have just written a script that would do what you
> want. Perfect examples are cdrecording packages. I have learned my
> lesson. I came from an all windows background. The first day I used a
> Linux machine I had to compile a kernel. The freedom I would never give
> up. I now hate that point and click stuff. I was once like you. We all
> like what is familiar. Once you get used to using a shell you will be
> much happier.
>
> --
> Frank Carmickle
> phone: 412 761-9568
> email: frankiec@dryrose.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001 Gregory Nowak
` Frank Carmickle
@ ` Geoff Shang
` Gregory Nowak
` David Poehlman
2 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Geoff Shang @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Hi:
Well if complex commands aren't your thing, you can always alias them to
simple ones.
Geoff.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001 Gregory Nowak
` Frank Carmickle
` Geoff Shang
@ ` David Poehlman
2 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: David Poehlman @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
ah, but try accessing an app that just doesn't cut it with a windows
screen reader. In linnux, you can actually fix much more of this than
you can in windows.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <romualt@megsinet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
Wednesday, June 27, 2001
I'm a big fan of Linux.
However, I consider using shortcut keys and
keyboard clicking mouse buttons far easier
then typing commands--even
with the tab and arrow keys.
Greg
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 02:19:31PM -0400, David Poehlman wrote:
> I agree, it was a poor choice of words. I actually see variety in the
> way the os can be implemented since it can be directly interacted with
> more easily than windows can.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
> Wednesday, June 27, 2001
>
>
> Ah, you see variety in how computer tasks are handled under linux, and
> no
> variety under Windows. Not sure that "variant" is the same meaning.
>
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
>
> > in other words, we have much more flexibility with linnux in
flavours
> > and in the way it is set up and compiled. windows is well, windows.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 11:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from
InfoWorld.com,
> > Wednesday, June 27, 2001
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
> >
> > > one thing we have going for us is that linnux is variant unlike
> > windows.
> >
> > Huh? What do you mean, "variant?" This sentence makes no sense.
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> >
> > > MSAA for Linux is what we need!
> >
> > Gag me with a spoon.
> >
> > Please don't wish the failings of M$ on us. We don't need any such
> > thing.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
> Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
> Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.html
>
> Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
> King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
> http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
>
> Learn how to make accessible software at
> http://www.afb.org/technology/accessapp.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` Victor Tsaran
` David Poehlman
@ ` Kirk Wood
` Geoff Shang
` MSAA for Linux Rich Caloggero
3 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Kirk Wood @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> .... MSAA for Linux is what we need!
Ummm, this sounds like a bad thing. A very bad thing. Sory, but m$ has
proven time and again that they won't do anything right. I have seen them
abandon their own standards in this area too many times to point to it for
anything.
What is needed is something much deeper then msaa.
=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
If your too open minded, your brains will fall out.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` Victor Tsaran
` David Poehlman
` Kirk Wood
@ ` Geoff Shang
` Georgina Joyce
` MSAA for Linux Rich Caloggero
3 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Geoff Shang @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> Don't tell me there are console alternatives for every GUI program, this is
> no longer true. MSAA for Linux is what we need!
OK, give me some examples, enquiring minds want to know. Apart from
java-enabled browsers and graphical tools, what else is there?
Geoff.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* RE: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001
` Geoff Shang
@ ` Georgina Joyce
0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Hi
Statistical packages such as SPSS. Statistical Package for the Social
Sciences. Widely used in academia.
Gena
Announcing Blindness Advocacy and Self-Help at www.bashonline.org
Personal pages at http://www.visson.freeserve.co.uk/
Mobile (Cell) Phone 07951 196268
-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Geoff Shang
Sent: 30 June 2001 13:19
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
Wednesday, June 27, 2001
On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> Don't tell me there are console alternatives for every GUI program, this
is
> no longer true. MSAA for Linux is what we need!
OK, give me some examples, enquiring minds want to know. Apart from
java-enabled browsers and graphical tools, what else is there?
Geoff.
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* MSAA for Linux
` Victor Tsaran
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
` Geoff Shang
@ ` Rich Caloggero
` Kirk Wood
` (2 more replies)
3 siblings, 3 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Rich Caloggero @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Well, not exactly MSAA, but something in the spirit of MSAA for linux would
be a *great* thing. MSAA allows a process to ask another process about its
internals. The questions which can be asked and the data which can be
gathered about process X by process Y are carefully designed to minimize
security concerns and to be particularly useful to a screen reader. To put
it another way, if process X is a screen reader and process Y is, say, a web
browser, then process X is going to want to know a bunch of things about
process Y in order to allow a blind user to interact with it. Actually, if
process X could just get hold of the parsed html (this tree is usually
called the document object model - DOM), then the screen reader would be
able to do great things. If you look at the jfw scripts for internet
explorer, there is a call which returns a DOM object. The function called is
not defined anywhere in JFW; its a magic call made posible by MSAA.
As fare as I know, the ultrasonix screen reader for X-Windows is based upon
similar technology. With X, however, implementing a protocol which can allow
any process to gather this kind of information from another process is
complex and risks exposing too much, making security a problem. There are
other issues too which I'm not really up on, but I do believe that X now has
RAP and ICE protocols (romote access protocol, and I'm not sure what ICE
stands for), but I'm not sure how fully developed they or ultrasonix are at
present.
Can anyone shed more light on this?
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
Wednesday, June 27, 2001
> I think this is a very interesting article. How do we, VIP, benefit from
the
> powerful and yet easy-to-use KDE version 2.1? Unfortunately, we can see it
> happening more often that more and more programs are written for X-Window.
> Don't tell me there are console alternatives for every GUI program, this
is
> no longer true. MSAA for Linux is what we need!
> Best,
> Vic
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: MSAA for Linux
` MSAA for Linux Rich Caloggero
@ ` Kirk Wood
` Saqib Shaikh
` MSAA for Linux Scott Howell
2 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Kirk Wood @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
I can enlighten you on the security aspect. In the macroslop world, that
isn't an issue. This is because they are the only ones to be able to see
the code and thus are not subject to the security concerns that systems
such as linux face. This is why it is only imaginary that way more
security problems are found in windows and its apps.
(for those not aware, I don't think macroslop does much right.)
=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
The mind is like a parachute; it works much better when open.
If your too open minded, your brains will fall out.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: MSAA for Linux
` MSAA for Linux Rich Caloggero
` Kirk Wood
@ ` Saqib Shaikh
` linux on a mac with speech Angelo Sonnesso
` MSAA for Linux Scott Howell
2 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Saqib Shaikh @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
ultrasonics was developed until about 98, but stopped because there aren't
enough c++ developers willing to work on it.
saqib shaikh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Caloggero" <rjc@MIT.EDU>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 7:10 PM
Subject: MSAA for Linux
> Well, not exactly MSAA, but something in the spirit of MSAA for linux
would
> be a *great* thing. MSAA allows a process to ask another process about its
> internals. The questions which can be asked and the data which can be
> gathered about process X by process Y are carefully designed to minimize
> security concerns and to be particularly useful to a screen reader. To put
> it another way, if process X is a screen reader and process Y is, say, a
web
> browser, then process X is going to want to know a bunch of things about
> process Y in order to allow a blind user to interact with it. Actually, if
> process X could just get hold of the parsed html (this tree is usually
> called the document object model - DOM), then the screen reader would be
> able to do great things. If you look at the jfw scripts for internet
> explorer, there is a call which returns a DOM object. The function called
is
> not defined anywhere in JFW; its a magic call made posible by MSAA.
> As fare as I know, the ultrasonix screen reader for X-Windows is based
upon
> similar technology. With X, however, implementing a protocol which can
allow
> any process to gather this kind of information from another process is
> complex and risks exposing too much, making security a problem. There are
> other issues too which I'm not really up on, but I do believe that X now
has
> RAP and ICE protocols (romote access protocol, and I'm not sure what ICE
> stands for), but I'm not sure how fully developed they or ultrasonix are
at
> present.
> Can anyone shed more light on this?
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:17 PM
> Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
> Wednesday, June 27, 2001
>
>
> > I think this is a very interesting article. How do we, VIP, benefit from
> the
> > powerful and yet easy-to-use KDE version 2.1? Unfortunately, we can see
it
> > happening more often that more and more programs are written for
X-Window.
> > Don't tell me there are console alternatives for every GUI program, this
> is
> > no longer true. MSAA for Linux is what we need!
> > Best,
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread* Re: MSAA for Linux
` MSAA for Linux Rich Caloggero
` Kirk Wood
` Saqib Shaikh
@ ` Scott Howell
2 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Scott Howell @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
What we really need is to get companies like Sun to move more rapidly
forward on a talking X server. I know they have been working on this, but
have not been able to find out the status on the project. There's been
several groups of folk working on a talking X server or similar idea, but
little has come of it.
I'm not sure why, but perhaps the need is not there or it would seem to
these groups or possibly development resources are very limited.
On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Rich Caloggero wrote:
> Well, not exactly MSAA, but something in the spirit of MSAA for linux would
> be a *great* thing. MSAA allows a process to ask another process about its
> internals. The questions which can be asked and the data which can be
> gathered about process X by process Y are carefully designed to minimize
> security concerns and to be particularly useful to a screen reader. To put
> it another way, if process X is a screen reader and process Y is, say, a web
> browser, then process X is going to want to know a bunch of things about
> process Y in order to allow a blind user to interact with it. Actually, if
> process X could just get hold of the parsed html (this tree is usually
> called the document object model - DOM), then the screen reader would be
> able to do great things. If you look at the jfw scripts for internet
> explorer, there is a call which returns a DOM object. The function called is
> not defined anywhere in JFW; its a magic call made posible by MSAA.
> As fare as I know, the ultrasonix screen reader for X-Windows is based upon
> similar technology. With X, however, implementing a protocol which can allow
> any process to gather this kind of information from another process is
> complex and risks exposing too much, making security a problem. There are
> other issues too which I'm not really up on, but I do believe that X now has
> RAP and ICE protocols (romote access protocol, and I'm not sure what ICE
> stands for), but I'm not sure how fully developed they or ultrasonix are at
> present.
> Can anyone shed more light on this?
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Tsaran" <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:17 PM
> Subject: Re: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com,
> Wednesday, June 27, 2001
>
>
> > I think this is a very interesting article. How do we, VIP, benefit from
> the
> > powerful and yet easy-to-use KDE version 2.1? Unfortunately, we can see it
> > happening more often that more and more programs are written for X-Window.
> > Don't tell me there are console alternatives for every GUI program, this
> is
> > no longer true. MSAA for Linux is what we need!
> > Best,
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
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Thread overview: 24+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
FW: NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001 Stephen Dawes
` Victor Tsaran
` David Poehlman
` Janina Sajka
` David Poehlman
` Janina Sajka
` David Poehlman
` Using an appropriate USB 56k modem Will Smith
` Ann Parsons
` NICHOLAS PETRELEY: "The Open Source" from InfoWorld.com, Wednesday, June 27, 2001 Gregory Nowak
` Frank Carmickle
` Gregory Nowak
` Geoff Shang
` Gregory Nowak
` David Poehlman
` Kirk Wood
` Geoff Shang
` Georgina Joyce
` MSAA for Linux Rich Caloggero
` Kirk Wood
` Saqib Shaikh
` linux on a mac with speech Angelo Sonnesso
` Saqib Shaikh
` MSAA for Linux Scott Howell
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