[cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Buddy Brannan]

Hey guys,

This page might be worth a look, so......have a look. I am looking
right now, and if what this guy says about the license agreement to M$
services, it's time to be very, very afraid.

----- Forwarded message from Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org> -----

To: discuss@ntlug.org

The following just came across the LPI mailing list; apparently Microsoft
is claiming that anything that is transmitted through one of their
services will be treated as being "Copyright Microsoft."

- If you send a business plan via Hotmail?  Microsoft owns it.

- If you send love notes to a significant other?  Microsoft has the right
  to republish, publicly display, transfer, or sell such communication.

Gotta love it...
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:15:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chuck Mead <csm@MoonGroup.com>
To: LPI Discuss <lpi-discuss@lpi.org>
Subject: [OT] Microsoft should be feared and despised!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0104030010500.31399-100000@gateway.moongroup.org>

Warning... if you subscribe to this list using an email account which
originates on a Microsoft service of any kind I will be asking the LPI
board to consider blocking all electronic correspondence which
originates from or is destined for any Microsoft provided service. THIS
IS NOT SOME KIND OF APRIL FOOLS JOKE! It's serious so please take it
seriously. This means, at least, hotmail, msn, and microsoft.com. What
am I missing? If you don't understand what I'm talking about please take
a few minutes and go read the article at the link.

http://www.moongroup.com/stories.php?story=01/04/02/0156291
- --
Chuck Mead, csm -AT- moongroup.com, Owner, MoonGroup.com
(Note: html formatted email sent to me is filtered & deleted unread)
GnuPG Public Key Available: http://wwwkeys.us.pgp.net
------- End of Forwarded Message
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "ac.notelrac.teneerf@" "454aa"))
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/resume.html
"Just because it's free doesn't mean you can afford it."  -- Unknown
_______________________________________________
http://www.ntlug.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
Phone: (972) 276-6360    | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Buddy Brannan]

Here's the relevant portion of the license agreement. Yep, it sounded
pretty standard right up to this point right here. (You know, saying
you only had the rights to your stuff, but not any other stuff sort of
thing), but...this next bit is disturbing. I only hope that Hotmail
doesn't have this same verbiage.




   LICENSE TO MICROSOFT
   By posting messages, uploading files, inputting data, submitting any
   feedback or suggestions, or engaging in any other form of
   communication with or through the Passport Web Site, you warrant and
   represent that you own or otherwise control the rights necessary to do
   so and you are granting Microsoft and its affiliated companies
   permission to:
    1. Use, modify, copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display,
       publicly perform, reproduce, publish, sublicense, create
       derivative works from, transfer, or sell any such communication.
    2. Sublicense to third parties the unrestricted right to exercise any
       of the foregoing rights granted with respect to the communication.
    3. Publish your name in connection with any such communication.
       
   The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any
   proprietary rights in such communication, including but not limited to
   rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under
   any relevant jurisdiction. No compensation will be paid with respect
   to Microsoft's use of the materials contained within such
   communication. Microsoft is under no obligation to post or use any
   materials you may provide and may remove such materials at any time in
   Microsoft's sole discretion.

-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
Phone: (972) 276-6360    | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[David Poehlman]

hotmail is a passport site.

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Kirk Wood]

Ok, while M$ isn't a super great company mmisrepresentations of them are
no better then they are. In the interest of FULL disclosure here is the
complete text of the excerpt:

MATERIALS PROVIDED TO MICROSOFT OR POSTED AT ANY MSN WEB SITE 

Microsoft does not claim ownership of the materials you provide to
Microsoft (including feedback and suggestions) or post, upload, input or
submit to any MSN Site/Service or its associated services for review by
the general public (each a "Submission" and collectively
"Submissions"). However, by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or
submitting your Submission you are granting Microsoft, its affiliated
companies and necessary sublicensees permission to use your Submission in
connection with the operation of their Internet businesses including,
without limitation, the rights to: copy, distribute, transmit, publicly
display, publicly perform, reproduce, edit, translate and reformat your
Submission; and to publish your name in connection with your Submission. 

No compensation will be paid with respect to the use of your Submission,
as provided herein. Microsoft is under no obligation to post or use any
Submission you may provide and Microsoft may remove any Submission at any
time in its sole discretion. 

By posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting your Submission
you warrant and represent that you own or otherwise control all of the
rights to your Submission as described in this section including, without
limitation, all the rights necessary for you to provide, post, upload,
input or submit the Submissions. 



Notice, this refers to input to the site. It is not intended to cover any
and all email that you send through their service. Further, they don't
claim to own it. And to make things a little more succinct, they are not
some supper power capable of ignoring previous copyright. Thus if you post
a suggestion or comment of material which is protected, they can not show
said material (or more accurately must remove it when notified.)

So if you are paranoid, don't suggest anything to the company. Then again,
if your paranoid don't tell anything to anyone on the internet. Guess
what? It may be disclosed. Privacy policies are non-binding documents
which may be amended at any time with or without notice.

If you buy something from any company the only way you can really insure
your information won't be sold is to buy in cash and give false
information if asked.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nothing is hard if you know the answer or are used to doing it.

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[David Poehlman]

I am afraid that there is eve more so we should all read the whole
thing.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
Loathing in Redmond...]


Ok, while M$ isn't a super great company mmisrepresentations of them are
no better then they are. In the interest of FULL disclosure here is the
complete text of the excerpt:

MATERIALS PROVIDED TO MICROSOFT OR POSTED AT ANY MSN WEB SITE

Microsoft does not claim ownership of the materials you provide to
Microsoft (including feedback and suggestions) or post, upload, input or
submit to any MSN Site/Service or its associated services for review by
the general public (each a "Submission" and collectively
"Submissions"). However, by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or
submitting your Submission you are granting Microsoft, its affiliated
companies and necessary sublicensees permission to use your Submission
in
connection with the operation of their Internet businesses including,
without limitation, the rights to: copy, distribute, transmit, publicly
display, publicly perform, reproduce, edit, translate and reformat your
Submission; and to publish your name in connection with your Submission.

No compensation will be paid with respect to the use of your Submission,
as provided herein. Microsoft is under no obligation to post or use any
Submission you may provide and Microsoft may remove any Submission at
any
time in its sole discretion.

By posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting your
Submission
you warrant and represent that you own or otherwise control all of the
rights to your Submission as described in this section including,
without
limitation, all the rights necessary for you to provide, post, upload,
input or submit the Submissions.



Notice, this refers to input to the site. It is not intended to cover
any
and all email that you send through their service. Further, they don't
claim to own it. And to make things a little more succinct, they are not
some supper power capable of ignoring previous copyright. Thus if you
post
a suggestion or comment of material which is protected, they can not
show
said material (or more accurately must remove it when notified.)

So if you are paranoid, don't suggest anything to the company. Then
again,
if your paranoid don't tell anything to anyone on the internet. Guess
what? It may be disclosed. Privacy policies are non-binding documents
which may be amended at any time with or without notice.

If you buy something from any company the only way you can really insure
your information won't be sold is to buy in cash and give false
information if asked.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nothing is hard if you know the answer or are used to doing it.


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Kirk Wood]

You SHOULD read the whole thing if you use their service. Then again, you
should read ALL legal contracts.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nothing is hard if you know the answer or are used to doing it.

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Buddy Brannan]

Yeah. I still say they're disgusting slimeballs and hope they roast in
hell.

But lest anyone think that the quote I got from that hideous excuse
for a licensing agreement, here's the whole thing, in all of its
(umm....) glory. I still maintain that the full document doesn't make
the objectional parts any better.



   AGREEMENT BETWEEN USER AND MICROSOFT CORPORATION
   The Microsoft Passport Web Site is comprised of a Web site and its
   associated services and is operated by Microsoft Corporation
   ("Microsoft").
   The Passport Web Site and its associated services is offered to you
   conditioned on your acceptance without modification of the terms,
   conditions, and notices contained herein. Your use of the Passport Web
   Site and its associated services constitutes your agreement to all
   such terms, conditions, and notices.
   You agree to familiarize yourself with the Terms of Use and other
   terms and guidelines found throughout the Passport Web Site and abide
   by them if you choose to use the sites, pages or services to which
   they apply.
   MODIFICATION OF THESE TERMS OF USE
   Microsoft reserves the right to change the terms, conditions, and
   notices under which the Passport Web Site and services are offered.
   You are responsible for regularly reviewing these terms and
   conditions. Continued use of the Passport Web Site or services after
   any such changes shall constitute your consent to such changes.
   USE LIMITATION
   Unless you are a signatory to a Passport Participant License and
   Service agreement, the Passport Web Site and services are for your
   personal and non-commercial use. Except as may be specifically set
   forth in the Passport Participant License and Service Agreement(s) (as
   applicable only to Passport Participant web sites), you may not
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   publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any
   information, software, products or services obtained from through the
   Passport Web Site and service.
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   LICENSE TO MICROSOFT
   By posting messages, uploading files, inputting data, submitting any
   feedback or suggestions, or engaging in any other form of
   communication with or through the Passport Web Site, you warrant and
   represent that you own or otherwise control the rights necessary to do
   so and you are granting Microsoft and its affiliated companies
   permission to:
    1. Use, modify, copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display,
       publicly perform, reproduce, publish, sublicense, create
       derivative works from, transfer, or sell any such communication.
    2. Sublicense to third parties the unrestricted right to exercise any
       of the foregoing rights granted with respect to the communication.
    3. Publish your name in connection with any such communication.
       
   The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any
   proprietary rights in such communication, including but not limited to
   rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under
   any relevant jurisdiction. No compensation will be paid with respect
   to Microsoft's use of the materials contained within such
   communication. Microsoft is under no obligation to post or use any
   materials you may provide and may remove such materials at any time in
   Microsoft's sole discretion.
   SOFTWARE AVAILABLE ON THE PASSPORT WEB SITE
   Software (if any) that is made available to download from the Passport
   Web Site, excluding software that may be made available by end-users
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   LIABILITY DISCLAIMER
   THE INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, AND SERVICES INCLUDED IN OR
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   INACCURACIES OR TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS. CHANGES ARE PERIODICALLY ADDED
   TO THE INFORMATION HEREIN. MICROSOFT AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS
   MAY MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND/OR CHANGES IN THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR
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   DIRECT, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES
   OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR
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   your access to the Passport Web Site and the related services or any
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   GENERAL
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   U.S.A. You hereby consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of
   courts in King County, Washington, U.S.A. in all disputes arising out
   of or relating to the use of the Passport Web Site or service. Use of
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   conditions, including without limitation this paragraph. You agree
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   agreement, in whole or in part, at any time. Microsoft's performance
   of this agreement is subject to existing laws and legal process, and
   nothing contained in this agreement is in derogation of Microsoft's
   right to comply with governmental, court and law enforcement requests
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   COPYRIGHT AND TRADEMARK NOTICES:
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   Inc. and/or its suppliers, c/o Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft
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   For Consumers | For Business | For Press | International
   © 1999-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
   TRUSTe Approved Privacy Statement | Terms of Use

-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
Phone: (972) 276-6360    | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[David Poehlman]

I agree.  the part that was quoted here earlier did not make clear the
rights we are giving away.  I sure hope people read this carefully and
if you are in a position to act on it that you do so.  There should
probably be some sort of class action or at least some sort of unlawful
practice suit here.  This is sort of like telling the doctor that he can
put a video of your naked body in surgery on tv without your knowledge
or consent.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
Loathing in Redmond...]


Yeah. I still say they're disgusting slimeballs and hope they roast in
hell.

But lest anyone think that the quote I got from that hideous excuse
for a licensing agreement, here's the whole thing, in all of its
(umm....) glory. I still maintain that the full document doesn't make
the objectional parts any better.



   AGREEMENT BETWEEN USER AND MICROSOFT CORPORATION
   The Microsoft Passport Web Site is comprised of a Web site and its
   associated services and is operated by Microsoft Corporation
   ("Microsoft").
   The Passport Web Site and its associated services is offered to you
   conditioned on your acceptance without modification of the terms,
   conditions, and notices contained herein. Your use of the Passport
Web
   Site and its associated services constitutes your agreement to all
   such terms, conditions, and notices.
   You agree to familiarize yourself with the Terms of Use and other
   terms and guidelines found throughout the Passport Web Site and abide
   by them if you choose to use the sites, pages or services to which
   they apply.
   MODIFICATION OF THESE TERMS OF USE
   Microsoft reserves the right to change the terms, conditions, and
   notices under which the Passport Web Site and services are offered.
   You are responsible for regularly reviewing these terms and
   conditions. Continued use of the Passport Web Site or services after
   any such changes shall constitute your consent to such changes.
   USE LIMITATION
   Unless you are a signatory to a Passport Participant License and
   Service agreement, the Passport Web Site and services are for your
   personal and non-commercial use. Except as may be specifically set
   forth in the Passport Participant License and Service Agreement(s)
(as
   applicable only to Passport Participant web sites), you may not
   modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce,
   publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any
   information, software, products or services obtained from through the
   Passport Web Site and service.
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RE: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Stephen Dawes]

I think that this is a big hokes, and that someone somewhere is trying to
spread unnecessary fear!

I am basing my opinion on the fact that the only discussion that I have seen
on this topic has been generated on this list.  That is not to say that this
lists opinions are worthless.  However, I subscribe to a number of journals
which are e-mailed to me daily, some of which I have posted articles from
here in the past, and to a journal, not one of them have even mentioned this
issue.

The people that write the various journals that I receive, have been keeping
a close watch on Microsoft ever since the company was challenged in court
years ago, so I believe that something like what is being discussed here
would have been addressed.

Sorry to pop the bubble that is growing, but, I think that someone started
an April Fools Joke, and this discussion has bought it hock line and sinker.

Just my thoughts, $0.25 Canadian, on the subject!



Stephen Dawes B.A. B.Sc.
Web Business Office, The City of Calgary
PHONE:  (403) 268-5527. FAX: (403) 268-6423
E-MAIL ADDRESS:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca




> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of David Poehlman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 6:59 AM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
> Loathing in Redmond...]
>
>
> I agree.  the part that was quoted here earlier did not make clear the
> rights we are giving away.  I sure hope people read this carefully and
> if you are in a position to act on it that you do so.  There should
> probably be some sort of class action or at least some sort of unlawful
> practice suit here.  This is sort of like telling the doctor that he can
> put a video of your naked body in surgery on tv without your knowledge
> or consent.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
> Loathing in Redmond...]
>
>
> Yeah. I still say they're disgusting slimeballs and hope they roast in
> hell.
>
> But lest anyone think that the quote I got from that hideous excuse
> for a licensing agreement, here's the whole thing, in all of its
> (umm....) glory. I still maintain that the full document doesn't make
> the objectionable parts any better.
>
>
>
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>    RELATED SERVICES, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SERVICES, OR
>    FOR ANY INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED
> GRAPHICS
>    OBTAINED THROUGH THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR SERVICE, OR OTHERWISE
>    ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR SERVICE, WHETHER
>    BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE,
>    EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
>    POSSIBILITY OF DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME STATES/JURISDICTIONS DO NOT
> ALLOW
>    THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>    INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. IF YOU
>    ARE DISSATISFIED WITH ANY PORTION OF THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR
> SERVICE,
>    OR WITH ANY OF THESE TERMS OF USE, YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY IS
>    TO DISCONTINUE USING THE PASSPORT WEB SITE AND ITS RELATED SERVICES.
>    SERVICE CONTACT
>    Contact customer service with questions or problems with this Web
>    site.
>    TERMINATION/ACCESS RESTRICTION
>    Microsoft reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to terminate
>    your access to the Passport Web Site and the related services or any
>    portion thereof at any time, without notice.
>    GENERAL
>    This agreement is governed by the laws of the State of Washington,
>    U.S.A. You hereby consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of
>    courts in King County, Washington, U.S.A. in all disputes arising out
>    of or relating to the use of the Passport Web Site or service. Use of
>    the Passport Web Site and service is unauthorized in any jurisdiction
>    that does not give effect to all provisions of these terms and
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> relationship
>    exists between you and Microsoft as a result of this agreement or use
>    of the Passport Web Site or service. Microsoft may assign this
>    agreement, in whole or in part, at any time. Microsoft's performance
>    of this agreement is subject to existing laws and legal process, and
>    nothing contained in this agreement is in derogation of Microsoft's
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>    or requirements relating to your use of the Passport Web Site or
>    service or information provided to or gathered by Microsoft with
>    respect to such use. If any part of this agreement is determined to
> be
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> not
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>    matches the intent of the original provision and the remainder of the
>    agreement shall continue in effect. This agreement and the Passport
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>    constitute the entire agreement between the user and Microsoft with
>    respect to the Passport Web Site and service and such agreements
>    supersede all prior or contemporaneous communications and proposals,
>    whether electronic, oral or written, between the user and Microsoft
>    with respect to the Passport Web Site and service. A printed version
>    of this agreement and of any notice given in electronic form shall be
>    admissible in judicial or administrative proceedings based upon or
>    relating to this agreement to the same extent and subject to the same
>    conditions as other business documents and records originally
>    generated and maintained in printed form.
>    COPYRIGHT AND TRADEMARK NOTICES:
>    All contents of the Passport Web Site are: Copyright © 1999
> Microsoft,
>    Inc. and/or its suppliers, c/o Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft
>    Way, Redmond, Washington 98052-6399 U.S.A. All rights reserved.
>    TRADEMARKS. Microsoft, Hotmail, MSN and other names of Microsoft
>    products and/or services referenced herein are trademarks or
>    registered trademarks of Microsoft Corporation. The names of actual
>    companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of
> their
>    respective owners.
>    The example companies, organizations, products, people and events
>    depicted herein are fictitious. No association with any real company,
>    organization, product, person, or event is intended or should be
>    inferred.
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>    Pursuant to Title 17, United States Code, Section 512(c)(2),
>    notifications of claimed copyright infringement should be sent to
>    Service Provider's Designated Agent. ALL INQUIRIES NOT RELEVANT TO
> THE
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> Procedure
>    for Making Claims of Copyright Infringement.
>    FOR INFORMATION REGARDING THE PASSPORT PRIVACY STATEMENT CLICK HERE
>
>    For Consumers | For Business | For Press | International
>    © 1999-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
>    TRUSTe Approved Privacy Statement | Terms of Use
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | I choose you to take up all of my time.
> Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
> Phone: (972) 276-6360    | I want easy people from now on.
>                          | --the Nields
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[David Poehlman]

no, this is not an april fools joke.  if you read the agreement
carefully, it actually says that ms can do anything with any data you
place or discuss through msn messenger that they want.  I first saw it
in something called the register but I don't have the url.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Dawes" <sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
Loathing in Redmond...]


I think that this is a big hokes, and that someone somewhere is trying
to
spread unnecessary fear!

I am basing my opinion on the fact that the only discussion that I have
seen
on this topic has been generated on this list.  That is not to say that
this
lists opinions are worthless.  However, I subscribe to a number of
journals
which are e-mailed to me daily, some of which I have posted articles
from
here in the past, and to a journal, not one of them have even mentioned
this
issue.

The people that write the various journals that I receive, have been
keeping
a close watch on Microsoft ever since the company was challenged in
court
years ago, so I believe that something like what is being discussed here
would have been addressed.

Sorry to pop the bubble that is growing, but, I think that someone
started
an April Fools Joke, and this discussion has bought it hock line and
sinker.

Just my thoughts, $0.25 Canadian, on the subject!



Stephen Dawes B.A. B.Sc.
Web Business Office, The City of Calgary
PHONE:  (403) 268-5527. FAX: (403) 268-6423
E-MAIL ADDRESS:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca




> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of David Poehlman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 6:59 AM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
> Loathing in Redmond...]
>
>
> I agree.  the part that was quoted here earlier did not make clear the
> rights we are giving away.  I sure hope people read this carefully and
> if you are in a position to act on it that you do so.  There should
> probably be some sort of class action or at least some sort of
unlawful
> practice suit here.  This is sort of like telling the doctor that he
can
> put a video of your naked body in surgery on tv without your knowledge
> or consent.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
> Loathing in Redmond...]
>
>
> Yeah. I still say they're disgusting slimeballs and hope they roast in
> hell.
>
> But lest anyone think that the quote I got from that hideous excuse
> for a licensing agreement, here's the whole thing, in all of its
> (umm....) glory. I still maintain that the full document doesn't make
> the objectionable parts any better.
>
>
>
>    AGREEMENT BETWEEN USER AND MICROSOFT CORPORATION
>    The Microsoft Passport Web Site is comprised of a Web site and its
>    associated services and is operated by Microsoft Corporation
>    ("Microsoft").
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>    You agree to familiarize yourself with the Terms of Use and other
>    terms and guidelines found throughout the Passport Web Site and
abide
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>    Microsoft reserves the right to change the terms, conditions, and
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>        letters.
>      * Download any file posted by another user of a Communication
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proper
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>
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>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | I choose you to take up all of my time.
> Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
> Phone: (972) 276-6360    | I want easy people from now on.
>                          | --the Nields
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RE: Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Kirk Wood]

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, David Poehlman wrote:
> I agree.  the part that was quoted here earlier did not make clear the
> rights we are giving away.  I sure hope people read this carefully and
> if you are in a position to act on it that you do so.  There should
> probably be some sort of class action or at least some sort of unlawful
> practice suit here.  This is sort of like telling the doctor that he can
> put a video of your naked body in surgery on tv without your knowledge
> or consent.

This is just a load of crap. Sorry, but when you use their service you
agree to the terms. They display them for you. If you are too damn lazy to
read them or don't bother then it is your fault and not theirs. They can't
force you to read the thing.

The analogy with the doctor is so totally bogus it is pathetic. And for
the record if you agree to be in a study then they _will_ use information
you provide for their business purposes.

Then again, I wonder why you would post a suggestion to a site and then
expect them to _not_ use it. That is just plain crap. You post because you
want them to use the information. Ever call a radio station? Guess what
they may have recorded it and reserve the right to play it on the
air. Oh, but maybe this is like the doctor being a perv.

Finally, I would like to remind people that you can choose to not use any
microslop site. You are not required to use their sites. If you use them
you agree to their rules. If you don't bother to read the rules you
deserve whatever you get. By the way, have you bothered to read your
bank's rules? Those are much more scary. (Or what about a rent contract?)

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Nothing is hard if you know the answer or are used to doing it.

Re: Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[David Poehlman]

some rules are made lawfully and some are not.  I maintain that if this
were taken to court, ms would loose even if you did sign the bloody
thing because it is blatent miss use of contract law.

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Gregory Nowak]

Hey Buddy,

You know, if they ever find out you sent their beloved and copyrighted
agreement to this list, they may sue you.
Greg


----- Original Message -----
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
Loathing in Redmond...]


> Yeah. I still say they're disgusting slimeballs and hope they roast in
> hell.
>
> But lest anyone think that the quote I got from that hideous excuse
> for a licensing agreement, here's the whole thing, in all of its
> (umm....) glory. I still maintain that the full document doesn't make
> the objectional parts any better.
>
>
>
>    AGREEMENT BETWEEN USER AND MICROSOFT CORPORATION
>    The Microsoft Passport Web Site is comprised of a Web site and its
>    associated services and is operated by Microsoft Corporation
>    ("Microsoft").
>    The Passport Web Site and its associated services is offered to you
>    conditioned on your acceptance without modification of the terms,
>    conditions, and notices contained herein. Your use of the Passport Web
>    Site and its associated services constitutes your agreement to all
>    such terms, conditions, and notices.
>    You agree to familiarize yourself with the Terms of Use and other
>    terms and guidelines found throughout the Passport Web Site and abide
>    by them if you choose to use the sites, pages or services to which
>    they apply.
>    MODIFICATION OF THESE TERMS OF USE
>    Microsoft reserves the right to change the terms, conditions, and
>    notices under which the Passport Web Site and services are offered.
>    You are responsible for regularly reviewing these terms and
>    conditions. Continued use of the Passport Web Site or services after
>    any such changes shall constitute your consent to such changes.
>    USE LIMITATION
>    Unless you are a signatory to a Passport Participant License and
>    Service agreement, the Passport Web Site and services are for your
>    personal and non-commercial use. Except as may be specifically set
>    forth in the Passport Participant License and Service Agreement(s) (as
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>    publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any
>    information, software, products or services obtained from through the
>    Passport Web Site and service.
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>    As a condition of your use of the Passport Web Site and service, you
>    warrant to Microsoft that you will not use the Passport Web Site or
>    service for any purpose that is unlawful or prohibited by these terms,
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>      * Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any
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> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | I choose you to take up all of my time.
> Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
> Phone: (972) 276-6360    | I want easy people from now on.
>                          | --the Nields
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Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Hey Greg,

No way will Buddy get sued. Since it was sent to this list, and Kirk is
the list owner, Kirk owns the thing and he can do whatever he pleases with
it, including changing the offensive language and replacing all occurences
of "MS" with "M$" if he wants to.
Chuck
 On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Hey Buddy,
> 
> You know, if they ever find out you sent their beloved and copyrighted
> agreement to this list, they may sue you.
> Greg
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
> Loathing in Redmond...]
> 
> 
> > Yeah. I still say they're disgusting slimeballs and hope they roast in
> > hell.
> >
> > But lest anyone think that the quote I got from that hideous excuse
> > for a licensing agreement, here's the whole thing, in all of its
> > (umm....) glory. I still maintain that the full document doesn't make
> > the objectional parts any better.
> >
> >
> >
> >    AGREEMENT BETWEEN USER AND MICROSOFT CORPORATION
> >    The Microsoft Passport Web Site is comprised of a Web site and its
> >    associated services and is operated by Microsoft Corporation
> >    ("Microsoft").
> >    The Passport Web Site and its associated services is offered to you
> >    conditioned on your acceptance without modification of the terms,
> >    conditions, and notices contained herein. Your use of the Passport Web
> >    Site and its associated services constitutes your agreement to all
> >    such terms, conditions, and notices.
> >    You agree to familiarize yourself with the Terms of Use and other
> >    terms and guidelines found throughout the Passport Web Site and abide
> >    by them if you choose to use the sites, pages or services to which
> >    they apply.
> >    MODIFICATION OF THESE TERMS OF USE
> >    Microsoft reserves the right to change the terms, conditions, and
> >    notices under which the Passport Web Site and services are offered.
> >    You are responsible for regularly reviewing these terms and
> >    conditions. Continued use of the Passport Web Site or services after
> >    any such changes shall constitute your consent to such changes.
> >    USE LIMITATION
> >    Unless you are a signatory to a Passport Participant License and
> >    Service agreement, the Passport Web Site and services are for your
> >    personal and non-commercial use. Except as may be specifically set
> >    forth in the Passport Participant License and Service Agreement(s) (as
> >    applicable only to Passport Participant web sites), you may not
> >    modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce,
> >    publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any
> >    information, software, products or services obtained from through the
> >    Passport Web Site and service.
> >    LINKS TO THIRD PARTY SITES
> >    The Passport Web Site may contain links to other Web sites ("Linked
> >    Sites"). The Linked Sites are not under the control of Microsoft and
> >    Microsoft is not responsible for the contents of any Linked Site,
> >    including without limitation any link contained in a Linked Site, or
> >    any changes or updates to a Linked Site. Microsoft is not responsible
> >    for webcasting or any other form of transmission received from any
> >    Linked Site. Microsoft is providing these links to you only as a
> >    convenience, and the inclusion of any link does not imply endorsement
> >    by Microsoft of the site or any association with its operators.
> >    NO UNLAWFUL OR PROHIBITED USE
> >    As a condition of your use of the Passport Web Site and service, you
> >    warrant to Microsoft that you will not use the Passport Web Site or
> >    service for any purpose that is unlawful or prohibited by these terms,
> >    conditions, and notices. You may not use the Passport Web Site or its
> >    associated service in any manner which could damage, disable,
> >    overburden, or impair the Passport Web Site or interfere with any
> >    other party's use and enjoyment of the Passport Web Site or its
> >    associated services. You may not obtain or attempt to obtain any
> >    materials or information through any means not intentionally made
> >    available or provided for through the Passport Web Site.
> >    USE OF COMMUNICATION SERVICES
> >    The Passport Web Site may contain bulletin board services, chat areas,
> >    news groups, forums, communities, personal web pages, group calendars,
> >    electronic mail postings and/or other message or communication
> >    facilities designed to enable you to communicate with the public at
> >    large or with a group (collectively, "Communication Services"), you
> >    agree to use the Communication Services only to post, send and receive
> >    messages and material that are proper and related to the particular
> >    Communication Service. By way of example, and not as a limitation, you
> >    agree that when using a Communication Service, you will not:
> >      * Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the
> >        legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others.
> >      * Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any
> >        inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent
> >        or unlawful topic, name, material or information.
> >      * Upload files that contain software or other material protected by
> >        intellectual property laws (or by rights of privacy of publicity)
> >        unless you own or control the rights thereto or have received all
> >        necessary consents.
> >      * Upload files that contain viruses, corrupted files, or any other
> >        similar software or programs that may damage the operation of
> >        another's computer.
> >      * Advertise or offer to sell or buy any goods or services for any
> >        commercial purpose, unless such Communication Service specifically
> >        allows such messages.
> >      * Conduct or forward surveys, contests, pyramid schemes or chain
> >        letters.
> >      * Download any file posted by another user of a Communication
> >        Service that you know, or reasonably should know, cannot be
> >        legally distributed in such manner.
> >      * Falsify or delete any author attributions, legal or other proper
> >        notices or proprietary designations or labels of the origin or
> >        source of software or other material contained in a file that is
> >        uploaded.
> >      * Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the
> >        Communication Services.
> >      * Violate any code of conduct or other guidelines which may be
> >        applicable for any particular Communication Service.
> >      * Harvest or otherwise collect information about others, including
> >        e-mail addresses, without their consent.
> >      * Violate any applicable laws or regulations.
> >
> >    Microsoft reserves the right to review materials posted to a
> >    Communication Service and to remove any materials in its sole
> >    discretion. Microsoft reserves the right to terminate your access to
> >    any or all of the Communication Services at any time without notice
> >    for any reason whatsoever.
> >    Microsoft has no obligation to monitor the Communication Services.
> >    However, Microsoft reserves the right at all times to disclose any
> >    information as necessary to satisfy any applicable law, regulation,
> >    legal process or governmental request, or to edit, refuse to post or
> >    to remove any information or materials, in whole or in part, in
> >    Microsoft's sole discretion.
> >    You acknowledge that all Communication Services are public and not
> >    private communications, therefore your communications may be read by
> >    others without your knowledge. Always use caution when giving out any
> >    personally identifying information about yourself or your children in
> >    any Communication Service. Microsoft does not control or endorse the
> >    content, messages or information found in any Communication Service
> >    and, therefore, Microsoft specifically disclaims any liability with
> >    regard to the Communication Services and any actions resulting from
> >    your participation in any Communication Service. Forum managers and
> >    hosts are not authorized Microsoft spokespersons, and their views do
> >    not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft.
> >    Materials uploaded to a Communication Service may be subject to posted
> >    limitations on usage, reproduction and/or dissemination, you are
> >    responsible for adhering to such limitations if you download the
> >    materials.
> >    LICENSE TO MICROSOFT
> >    By posting messages, uploading files, inputting data, submitting any
> >    feedback or suggestions, or engaging in any other form of
> >    communication with or through the Passport Web Site, you warrant and
> >    represent that you own or otherwise control the rights necessary to do
> >    so and you are granting Microsoft and its affiliated companies
> >    permission to:
> >     1. Use, modify, copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display,
> >        publicly perform, reproduce, publish, sublicense, create
> >        derivative works from, transfer, or sell any such communication.
> >     2. Sublicense to third parties the unrestricted right to exercise any
> >        of the foregoing rights granted with respect to the communication.
> >     3. Publish your name in connection with any such communication.
> >
> >    The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any
> >    proprietary rights in such communication, including but not limited to
> >    rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under
> >    any relevant jurisdiction. No compensation will be paid with respect
> >    to Microsoft's use of the materials contained within such
> >    communication. Microsoft is under no obligation to post or use any
> >    materials you may provide and may remove such materials at any time in
> >    Microsoft's sole discretion.
> >    SOFTWARE AVAILABLE ON THE PASSPORT WEB SITE
> >    Software (if any) that is made available to download from the Passport
> >    Web Site, excluding software that may be made available by end-users
> >    through a Communication Service, ("Software") is the copyrighted work
> >    of Microsoft and/or its suppliers. Your use of the Software is
> >    governed by the terms of the license agreement, if any, which
> >    accompanies or is included with the Software ("License Agreement").
> >    You may not install or use any Software that is accompanied by or
> >    includes a License Agreement unless you first agree to the License
> >    Agreement terms. For any Software not accompanied by a license
> >    agreement, Microsoft hereby grants to you, the user, a personal,
> >    non-transferable license to use the Software for viewing and otherwise
> >    using the Passport Web Site and service in accordance with these Terms
> >    of Use, and for no other purpose provided that you keep intact all
> >    copyright and other proprietary notices. All Software is owned by
> >    Microsoft and/or its suppliers and is protected by copyright laws and
> >    international treaty provisions. Any reproduction or redistribution of
> >    the Software is expressly prohibited by law, and may result in severe
> >    civil and criminal penalties. Violators will be prosecuted to the
> >    maximum extent possible. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, COPYING OR
> >    REPRODUCTION OF THE SOFTWARE TO ANY OTHER SERVER OR LOCATION FOR
> >    FURTHER REPRODUCTION OR REDISTRIBUTION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED. THE
> >    SOFTWARE IS WARRANTED, IF AT ALL, ONLY ACCORDING TO THE TERMS OF THE
> >    LICENSE AGREEMENT. You acknowledge that the Software, and any
> >    accompanying documentation and/or technical information, is subject to
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> >    MAY MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND/OR CHANGES IN THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR
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> >    WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR RELATED
> >    SERVICES, WITH THE DELAY OR INABILITY TO USE THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR
> >    RELATED SERVICES, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SERVICES, OR
> >    FOR ANY INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS
> >    OBTAINED THROUGH THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR SERVICE, OR OTHERWISE
> >    ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR SERVICE, WHETHER
> >    BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE,
> >    EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
> >    POSSIBILITY OF DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME STATES/JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW
> >    THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> >    INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. IF YOU
> >    ARE DISSATISFIED WITH ANY PORTION OF THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR SERVICE,
> >    OR WITH ANY OF THESE TERMS OF USE, YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY IS
> >    TO DISCONTINUE USING THE PASSPORT WEB SITE AND ITS RELATED SERVICES.
> >    SERVICE CONTACT
> >    Contact customer service with questions or problems with this Web
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> >    your access to the Passport Web Site and the related services or any
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> >    GENERAL
> >    This agreement is governed by the laws of the State of Washington,
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> >    the Passport Web Site and service is unauthorized in any jurisdiction
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> >    of the Passport Web Site or service. Microsoft may assign this
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> >    of this agreement is subject to existing laws and legal process, and
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> >    right to comply with governmental, court and law enforcement requests
> >    or requirements relating to your use of the Passport Web Site or
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> >    respect to such use. If any part of this agreement is determined to be
> >    invalid or unenforceable pursuant to applicable law including, but not
> >    limited to, the warranty disclaimers and liability limitations set
> >    forth above, then the invalid or unenforceable provision will be
> >    deemed superseded by a valid, enforceable provision that most closely
> >    matches the intent of the original provision and the remainder of the
> >    agreement shall continue in effect. This agreement and the Passport
> >    Participant License and Service agreement(s) (where applicable)
> >    constitute the entire agreement between the user and Microsoft with
> >    respect to the Passport Web Site and service and such agreements
> >    supersede all prior or contemporaneous communications and proposals,
> >    whether electronic, oral or written, between the user and Microsoft
> >    with respect to the Passport Web Site and service. A printed version
> >    of this agreement and of any notice given in electronic form shall be
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> >    conditions as other business documents and records originally
> >    generated and maintained in printed form.
> >    COPYRIGHT AND TRADEMARK NOTICES:
> >    All contents of the Passport Web Site are: Copyright © 1999 Microsoft,
> >    Inc. and/or its suppliers, c/o Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft
> >    Way, Redmond, Washington 98052-6399 U.S.A. All rights reserved.
> >    TRADEMARKS. Microsoft, Hotmail, MSN and other names of Microsoft
> >    products and/or services referenced herein are trademarks or
> >    registered trademarks of Microsoft Corporation. The names of actual
> >    companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their
> >    respective owners.
> >    The example companies, organizations, products, people and events
> >    depicted herein are fictitious. No association with any real company,
> >    organization, product, person, or event is intended or should be
> >    inferred.
> >    Any rights not expressly granted herein are reserved.
> >    NOTICES AND PROCEDURE FOR MAKING CLAIMS OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.
> >    Pursuant to Title 17, United States Code, Section 512(c)(2),
> >    notifications of claimed copyright infringement should be sent to
> >    Service Provider's Designated Agent. ALL INQUIRIES NOT RELEVANT TO THE
> >    FOLLOWING PROCEDURE WILL RECEIVE NO RESPONSE. See Notice and Procedure
> >    for Making Claims of Copyright Infringement.
> >    FOR INFORMATION REGARDING THE PASSPORT PRIVACY STATEMENT CLICK HERE
> >
> >    For Consumers | For Business | For Press | International
> >    © 1999-2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
> >    TRUSTe Approved Privacy Statement | Terms of Use
> >
> > --
> > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | I choose you to take up all of my time.
> > Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
> > Phone: (972) 276-6360    | I want easy people from now on.
> >                          | --the Nields
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
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> 

My web site is http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (85% of Full)

Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Gregory Nowak]

Right on.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <chuckh@mhonline.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
Loathing in Redmond...]


>
> Hey Greg,
>
> No way will Buddy get sued. Since it was sent to this list, and Kirk is
> the list owner, Kirk owns the thing and he can do whatever he pleases with
> it, including changing the offensive language and replacing all occurences
> of "MS" with "M$" if he wants to.
> Chuck
>  On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > Hey Buddy,
> >
> > You know, if they ever find out you sent their beloved and copyrighted
> > agreement to this list, they may sue you.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and
> > Loathing in Redmond...]
> >
> >
> > > Yeah. I still say they're disgusting slimeballs and hope they roast in
> > > hell.
> > >
> > > But lest anyone think that the quote I got from that hideous excuse
> > > for a licensing agreement, here's the whole thing, in all of its
> > > (umm....) glory. I still maintain that the full document doesn't make
> > > the objectional parts any better.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    AGREEMENT BETWEEN USER AND MICROSOFT CORPORATION
> > >    The Microsoft Passport Web Site is comprised of a Web site and its
> > >    associated services and is operated by Microsoft Corporation
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> > >    You agree to familiarize yourself with the Terms of Use and other
> > >    terms and guidelines found throughout the Passport Web Site and
abide
> > >    by them if you choose to use the sites, pages or services to which
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> > >    any such changes shall constitute your consent to such changes.
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> > >    The Passport Web Site may contain links to other Web sites ("Linked
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> > >    NO UNLAWFUL OR PROHIBITED USE
> > >    As a condition of your use of the Passport Web Site and service,
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> > >    warrant to Microsoft that you will not use the Passport Web Site or
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> > >    overburden, or impair the Passport Web Site or interfere with any
> > >    other party's use and enjoyment of the Passport Web Site or its
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> > >        inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene,
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> > >        unless you own or control the rights thereto or have received
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> > >        commercial purpose, unless such Communication Service
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> > >      * Download any file posted by another user of a Communication
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> > >      * Falsify or delete any author attributions, legal or other
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> > >     3. Publish your name in connection with any such communication.
> > >
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> > >    to Microsoft's use of the materials contained within such
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> > >    materials you may provide and may remove such materials at any time
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> > >    Microsoft's sole discretion.
> > >    SOFTWARE AVAILABLE ON THE PASSPORT WEB SITE
> > >    Software (if any) that is made available to download from the
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> > >    Web Site, excluding software that may be made available by
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> > >    through a Communication Service, ("Software") is the copyrighted
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> > >    governed by the terms of the license agreement, if any, which
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> > >    You may not install or use any Software that is accompanied by or
> > >    includes a License Agreement unless you first agree to the License
> > >    Agreement terms. For any Software not accompanied by a license
> > >    agreement, Microsoft hereby grants to you, the user, a personal,
> > >    non-transferable license to use the Software for viewing and
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> > >    using the Passport Web Site and service in accordance with these
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> > >    of Use, and for no other purpose provided that you keep intact all
> > >    copyright and other proprietary notices. All Software is owned by
> > >    Microsoft and/or its suppliers and is protected by copyright laws
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> > >    international treaty provisions. Any reproduction or redistribution
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> > >    the Software is expressly prohibited by law, and may result in
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> > >    accompanying documentation and/or technical information, is subject
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> > >    applicable export control laws and regulations of the USA. You
agree
> > >    not to export or re-export the Software, directly or indirectly, to
> > >    any countries that are subject to USA export restrictions.
> > >    LIABILITY DISCLAIMER
> > >    THE INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, AND SERVICES INCLUDED IN OR
> > >    AVAILABLE THROUGH THE PASSPORT WEB SITE AND SERVICE MAY INCLUDE
> > >    INACCURACIES OR TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS. CHANGES ARE PERIODICALLY
ADDED
> > >    TO THE INFORMATION HEREIN. MICROSOFT AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE
SUPPLIERS
> > >    MAY MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND/OR CHANGES IN THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR
> > >    SERVICE AT ANY TIME. ADVICE RECEIVED VIA THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR
> > >    SERVICE SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR PERSONAL, MEDICAL, LEGAL OR
> > >    FINANCIAL DECISIONS AND YOU SHOULD CONSULT AN APPROPRIATE
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> > >    MICROSOFT AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS
> > >    ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, AVAILABILITY, TIMELINESS, AND
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> > >    SERVICE FOR ANY PURPOSE. ALL SUCH INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS,
> > >    SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY
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> > >    ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS WITH REGARD TO THIS INFORMATION,
> > >    SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS, INCLUDING ALL
> > >    IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A
> > >    PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.
> > >    IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT AND/OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY
> > >    DIRECT, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL
DAMAGES
> > >    OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES
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> > >    LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY
CONNECTED
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OR
> > >    RELATED SERVICES, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SERVICES,
OR
> > >    FOR ANY INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED
GRAPHICS
> > >    OBTAINED THROUGH THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR SERVICE, OR OTHERWISE
> > >    ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR SERVICE, WHETHER
> > >    BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE,
> > >    EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE
> > >    POSSIBILITY OF DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME STATES/JURISDICTIONS DO NOT
ALLOW
> > >    THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > >    INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. IF
YOU
> > >    ARE DISSATISFIED WITH ANY PORTION OF THE PASSPORT WEB SITE OR
SERVICE,
> > >    OR WITH ANY OF THESE TERMS OF USE, YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY
IS
> > >    TO DISCONTINUE USING THE PASSPORT WEB SITE AND ITS RELATED
SERVICES.
> > >    SERVICE CONTACT
> > >    Contact customer service with questions or problems with this Web
> > >    site.
> > >    TERMINATION/ACCESS RESTRICTION
> > >    Microsoft reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to terminate
> > >    your access to the Passport Web Site and the related services or
any
> > >    portion thereof at any time, without notice.
> > >    GENERAL
> > >    This agreement is governed by the laws of the State of Washington,
> > >    U.S.A. You hereby consent to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue
of
> > >    courts in King County, Washington, U.S.A. in all disputes arising
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> > >    of or relating to the use of the Passport Web Site or service. Use
of
> > >    the Passport Web Site and service is unauthorized in any
jurisdiction
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> > >    conditions, including without limitation this paragraph. You agree
> > >    that no joint venture, partnership, employment, or agency
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> > >    exists between you and Microsoft as a result of this agreement or
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> > >    of the Passport Web Site or service. Microsoft may assign this
> > >    agreement, in whole or in part, at any time. Microsoft's
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> > >    right to comply with governmental, court and law enforcement
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> > >    service or information provided to or gathered by Microsoft with
> > >    respect to such use. If any part of this agreement is determined to
be
> > >    invalid or unenforceable pursuant to applicable law including, but
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> > >    limited to, the warranty disclaimers and liability limitations set
> > >    forth above, then the invalid or unenforceable provision will be
> > >    deemed superseded by a valid, enforceable provision that most
closely
> > >    matches the intent of the original provision and the remainder of
the
> > >    agreement shall continue in effect. This agreement and the Passport
> > >    Participant License and Service agreement(s) (where applicable)
> > >    constitute the entire agreement between the user and Microsoft with
> > >    respect to the Passport Web Site and service and such agreements
> > >    supersede all prior or contemporaneous communications and
proposals,
> > >    whether electronic, oral or written, between the user and Microsoft
> > >    with respect to the Passport Web Site and service. A printed
version
> > >    of this agreement and of any notice given in electronic form shall
be
> > >    admissible in judicial or administrative proceedings based upon or
> > >    relating to this agreement to the same extent and subject to the
same
> > >    conditions as other business documents and records originally
> > >    generated and maintained in printed form.
> > >    COPYRIGHT AND TRADEMARK NOTICES:
> > >    All contents of the Passport Web Site are: Copyright © 1999
Microsoft,
> > >    Inc. and/or its suppliers, c/o Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft
> > >    Way, Redmond, Washington 98052-6399 U.S.A. All rights reserved.
> > >    TRADEMARKS. Microsoft, Hotmail, MSN and other names of Microsoft
> > >    products and/or services referenced herein are trademarks or
> > >    registered trademarks of Microsoft Corporation. The names of actual
> > >    companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of
their
> > >    respective owners.
> > >    The example companies, organizations, products, people and events
> > >    depicted herein are fictitious. No association with any real
company,
> > >    organization, product, person, or event is intended or should be
> > >    inferred.
> > >    Any rights not expressly granted herein are reserved.
> > >    NOTICES AND PROCEDURE FOR MAKING CLAIMS OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.
> > >    Pursuant to Title 17, United States Code, Section 512(c)(2),
> > >    notifications of claimed copyright infringement should be sent to
> > >    Service Provider's Designated Agent. ALL INQUIRIES NOT RELEVANT TO
THE
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Re: [cbbrowne@localhost.brownes.org: [NTLUG:Discuss] Fear and Loathing in Redmond...]

[Buddy Brannan]

Hmm. Guess I'll have to take a number, or something.
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV    | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
Phone: (972) 276-6360    | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields