best way to install linux to a laptop

best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

		I am going to be using linux on some laptop at some point. My friend and
I are going to be getting it going, probably redhat as at least I hear it
allows one to choose reasonable defaults instead of just being asked
individually what I want when I'm not sure what every library is used in. I
kind of want to get acquainted more with redhat as my isp uses it, and it's
hardware detectability, seeing I've not a clue yet what the laptop will be
yet, but I think the synth will be an external double talk. We will both be
trying to learn more about linux by doing this, seeing he hasn't
experimented around as much as me seeing he didn't want to wipe out
everything, and thinks everything is so difficult compared to windows. I'm
likely to use this in a future job opportunity, and I've borrowed linux for
dummies from RFB, a good starting point. If this laptop requires the
swapping of the CD drive and floppy, how could we obtain a talking install
and use CD for installing the packages? We have no network we can directly
use for mounting the CD nfs style on another machine so I can boot from
floppy. I'm not even sure if the laptop in question could boot from CD.
Seeing the school network admin would rather run another line than allow us
to put in a hub, and they seem to be slow on it, how can we get linx on the
laptop without sight?
 
	 

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Kirk Wood]

I will attempt to address a number of issues you have brought up:

1.  Hardware detection: Nearly every distribution can detect
hardware. The differences come down to configuration methods and placement
of files. The other difference is installation of pre-packaged
bianaries. (One other note, I would recomend not I repeat not going with
RedHat 7 as there could be some compatibility problems with libraries and
why invite such potential problems starting out?)

2.  Booting from CD, or dealing with posible floppy, CD swap problems. If
you have access to a CDROM burner, you can make your own bootable CD that
uses the correct kernel. If this isn't an option, then you will want to
select either Debian or Slackware. Debian allows downloading most of the
files. Slackware is laid out in such a manner that installing most things
from floppy is doable. (Though it will mean a lot of floppys going through
the drive.)

3.  Selecting a distribution because your ISP uses it makes no
sense. Having said that, I think Debian can give you all the benifits of
RedHat and a whole lot more. First, you can install a version of RPM that
will install RPMs without problem (though it is not the recomended means
as that doesn't update the dpkg database). Second, you can install
linuxconf the main program for administering your machine. This is a great
program and I highly recomend it. You can add users, setup your network,
and a whole lot more. For ease of administration I haven't found anything
that beats Linuxconf. While RedHat came out with it, thanks to GPL you can
easily add it to Debian. (And the package is ready to go.)

The latest Debian will allow you to accept a default install that sets up
most things needed. It finds PCMCIA if you have it (and removes it if you
don't). You can easily install it using a PPP acount if you can't bot a
floppy then mount a CD.


=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Chris Nestrud]

You might want to check the PCMCiA howto (www.linuxdoc.org) to make sure
that your laptop has cards which are supported. I was installing Debian on
a friend's laptop, and while it detected the floppy and cd drives without
problems, it didn't detect the PCMCIA modem and NIC. It's also possible
that I missed something in the install.

Chris


On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Kirk Wood wrote:

> I will attempt to address a number of issues you have brought up:
> 
> 1.  Hardware detection: Nearly every distribution can detect
> hardware. The differences come down to configuration methods and placement
> of files. The other difference is installation of pre-packaged
> bianaries. (One other note, I would recomend not I repeat not going with
> RedHat 7 as there could be some compatibility problems with libraries and
> why invite such potential problems starting out?)
> 
> 2.  Booting from CD, or dealing with posible floppy, CD swap problems. If
> you have access to a CDROM burner, you can make your own bootable CD that
> uses the correct kernel. If this isn't an option, then you will want to
> select either Debian or Slackware. Debian allows downloading most of the
> files. Slackware is laid out in such a manner that installing most things
> from floppy is doable. (Though it will mean a lot of floppys going through
> the drive.)
> 
> 3.  Selecting a distribution because your ISP uses it makes no
> sense. Having said that, I think Debian can give you all the benifits of
> RedHat and a whole lot more. First, you can install a version of RPM that
> will install RPMs without problem (though it is not the recomended means
> as that doesn't update the dpkg database). Second, you can install
> linuxconf the main program for administering your machine. This is a great
> program and I highly recomend it. You can add users, setup your network,
> and a whole lot more. For ease of administration I haven't found anything
> that beats Linuxconf. While RedHat came out with it, thanks to GPL you can
> easily add it to Debian. (And the package is ready to go.)
> 
> The latest Debian will allow you to accept a default install that sets up
> most things needed. It finds PCMCIA if you have it (and removes it if you
> don't). You can easily install it using a PPP acount if you can't bot a
> floppy then mount a CD.
> 
> 
> =======
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Kirk Wood]

PS to my last post, if you need the debian CD give me your address and it
will get dropped in the mail.


=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Angelo Sonnesso]

Hi Kirk,
Where can I get the debian CD?

> PS to my last post, if you need the debian CD give me your address and it
> will get dropped in the mail.

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Kirk Wood]

I downloaded an image from
sunsite.utk.edu/pub/linux/Debian/dists/iso/current and then burned it
myself. It is not a bootable image though the information from Debian's
site indicates that they should be made bootable. I can send a few out to
those who need them as long as too many requests don't come in making me
go broke. <g>


=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Buddy Brannan]

Also remember you can get a $0.99 (or maybe it's back to $1.89, I haven't
checked) CD of any distribution at
www.linuxmall.com

It might be more if you get a multi-disk distro. Like maybe $2 or $3 or
something.

And Linuxmall has actually done some good by making their site easier to
use if you're blind. At least, last time I was there it was.

Bear in mind though that if you go the CD route, you'll still need to get
the boot and root disks and the base.tgz file from the Speakup FTP site for
Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
base2-2.tgz file myself.
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Voice mail: 877-791-5298
Email: davros@ycardz.com

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Kirk Wood]

Thanks Buddy for the info. Here is a little more complete info:
The cost for just about any distribution is 1.98 per CD. You can find most
any distribution CD and the following will take you right to where you
want.
http://www.linuxmall.com/shop/index.php3?cat=ROOT:SOFTWARE:OPERSYS:OS_LXCD&sort=2

Given that the cost here is so low, I will say that this is where you can
get your cd instead of me. I think anyone can come up with 1.98. If
nothing else, ask all your friends for a dollar or any portion
thereof. You will be there before you know it. <g>


=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Frank J. Carmickle]

Buddy.  You don't need the base tarball.  It's on the cd.  You can mount
the cd with all of the tools on the root disk.  If you are conserned about
the keymap that's a pretty easy thing to fix.  For some of us the 15m
download is a lot.


FC


On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> Also remember you can get a $0.99 (or maybe it's back to $1.89, I haven't
> checked) CD of any distribution at
> www.linuxmall.com
> 
> It might be more if you get a multi-disk distro. Like maybe $2 or $3 or
> something.
> 
> And Linuxmall has actually done some good by making their site easier to
> use if you're blind. At least, last time I was there it was.
> 
> Bear in mind though that if you go the CD route, you'll still need to get
> the boot and root disks and the base.tgz file from the Speakup FTP site for
> Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
> base2-2.tgz file myself.
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> Voice mail: 877-791-5298
> Email: davros@ycardz.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

The trouble is how to use utils on the root disk when you have to
physically remove the floppy drive to get the CD in?
At 06:06 PM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Buddy.  You don't need the base tarball.  It's on the cd.  You can mount
>the cd with all of the tools on the root disk.  If you are conserned about
>the keymap that's a pretty easy thing to fix.  For some of us the 15m
>download is a lot.
>
>
>FC
>
>
>On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>> Also remember you can get a $0.99 (or maybe it's back to $1.89, I haven't
>> checked) CD of any distribution at
>> www.linuxmall.com
>> 
>> It might be more if you get a multi-disk distro. Like maybe $2 or $3 or
>> something.
>> 
>> And Linuxmall has actually done some good by making their site easier to
>> use if you're blind. At least, last time I was there it was.
>> 
>> Bear in mind though that if you go the CD route, you'll still need to get
>> the boot and root disks and the base.tgz file from the Speakup FTP site for
>> Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
>> base2-2.tgz file myself.
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
>> Voice mail: 877-791-5298
>> Email: davros@ycardz.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

RE: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Stephen Dawes]

Does the laptop in question have a network card.  If so, then I would
installing over a network.  This would eliminate the need to swap the CD-ROM
and floppy drives.  By having the CD copied, or possibly mounted on another
machine, you only need to do a few simple thing when starting the install
over a network, and the rest is as though you are doing everything with in
the same computer.

I hope that this doesn't muddy the waters any.

BTW, Bill, WB2FLW, walked me through such an install just last weekend.




Stephen Dawes B.A. B.Sc.
Web Business Office, The City of Calgary
PHONE:  (403) 268-5527. FAX: (403) 268-6423
E-MAIL ADDRESS:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca




> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Brent Harding
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:38 PM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: best way to install linux to a laptop
>
>
> The trouble is how to use utils on the root disk when you have to
> physically remove the floppy drive to get the CD in?
> At 06:06 PM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >Buddy.  You don't need the base tarball.  It's on the cd.  You can mount
> >the cd with all of the tools on the root disk.  If you are
> conserned about
> >the keymap that's a pretty easy thing to fix.  For some of us the 15m
> >download is a lot.
> >
> >
> >FC
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> >
> >> Also remember you can get a $0.99 (or maybe it's back to
> $1.89, I haven't
> >> checked) CD of any distribution at
> >> www.linuxmall.com
> >>
> >> It might be more if you get a multi-disk distro. Like maybe $2 or $3 or
> >> something.
> >>
> >> And Linuxmall has actually done some good by making their site
> easier to
> >> use if you're blind. At least, last time I was there it was.
> >>
> >> Bear in mind though that if you go the CD route, you'll still
> need to get
> >> the boot and root disks and the base.tgz file from the Speakup
> FTP site for
> >> Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
> >> base2-2.tgz file myself.
> >> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> >> Voice mail: 877-791-5298
> >> Email: davros@ycardz.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

I'm not sure if thelaptop that both my friend and I will be putting it on
has one, but mine personal laptop doesn't. The secondary machine has a NIC
plugged in to a jack that goes on the main network there, which you need to
log in to novell to use. I don't have control of their CD tower to do this.
I was thinking the idea of a hub, but we don't own the network, and they'd
actually rather run another line from wherever the wiring inside the jack
leads to, it's a district wide network, I think.
At 07:31 AM 10/19/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Does the laptop in question have a network card.  If so, then I would
>installing over a network.  This would eliminate the need to swap the CD-ROM
>and floppy drives.  By having the CD copied, or possibly mounted on another
>machine, you only need to do a few simple thing when starting the install
>over a network, and the rest is as though you are doing everything with in
>the same computer.
>
>I hope that this doesn't muddy the waters any.
>
>BTW, Bill, WB2FLW, walked me through such an install just last weekend.
>
>
>
>
>Stephen Dawes B.A. B.Sc.
>Web Business Office, The City of Calgary
>PHONE:  (403) 268-5527. FAX: (403) 268-6423
>E-MAIL ADDRESS:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
>> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Brent Harding
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:38 PM
>> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> Subject: Re: best way to install linux to a laptop
>>
>>
>> The trouble is how to use utils on the root disk when you have to
>> physically remove the floppy drive to get the CD in?
>> At 06:06 PM 10/18/00 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Buddy.  You don't need the base tarball.  It's on the cd.  You can mount
>> >the cd with all of the tools on the root disk.  If you are
>> conserned about
>> >the keymap that's a pretty easy thing to fix.  For some of us the 15m
>> >download is a lot.
>> >
>> >
>> >FC
>> >
>> >
>> >On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>> >
>> >> Also remember you can get a $0.99 (or maybe it's back to
>> $1.89, I haven't
>> >> checked) CD of any distribution at
>> >> www.linuxmall.com
>> >>
>> >> It might be more if you get a multi-disk distro. Like maybe $2 or $3 or
>> >> something.
>> >>
>> >> And Linuxmall has actually done some good by making their site
>> easier to
>> >> use if you're blind. At least, last time I was there it was.
>> >>
>> >> Bear in mind though that if you go the CD route, you'll still
>> need to get
>> >> the boot and root disks and the base.tgz file from the Speakup
>> FTP site for
>> >> Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
>> >> base2-2.tgz file myself.
>> >> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
>> >> Voice mail: 877-791-5298
>> >> Email: davros@ycardz.com
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Speakup mailing list
>> >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Speakup mailing list
>> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Geoff Shang]

On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> Bear in mind though that if you go the CD route, you'll still need to get
> the boot and root disks and the base.tgz file from the Speakup FTP site for
> Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
> base2-2.tgz file myself.

Only problem with this Buddy is the vexing question of synth selection.  If
you can devise a good way to pick the synth to use, let us know.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Kirk Wood]

> > Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
> > base2-2.tgz file myself.
> 
> Only problem with this Buddy is the vexing question of synth selection.  If
> you can devise a good way to pick the synth to use, let us know.

Actually I have an idea here. But I don't have all the needed
knowledge. If one can make a boot floppy that allows for a selection of
kernels to load, then it shouldn't be too hard. Or one could reley on
booting to the dreaded dos with cdrom drivers. Then launch loadlin with
the appropriate kernel image from there.

The other thing one could do is to make several ISO images for CDs based
on which synth was being used. If concerned about the size of download,
one could only include a minimum of stuff for the installation.

=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

How have programs like window bridge done it in DOS? You'd type install,
and it detected what you had, at least an old demo did. I'd say using lilo,
dtlk for double talk, bns for braille and speak, etc.
At 06:31 PM 10/19/00 +1100, you wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>> Bear in mind though that if you go the CD route, you'll still need to get
>> the boot and root disks and the base.tgz file from the Speakup FTP site for
>> Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
>> base2-2.tgz file myself.
>
>Only problem with this Buddy is the vexing question of synth selection.  If
>you can devise a good way to pick the synth to use, let us know.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>-- 
>Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
>ICQ number 43634701
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

The difference between installing something like window bridge and
installing linux is that programs like window bridge have the support for
all synths built into the package, whereas you need to load a kernel
specific to the relevant synth for linux.  window bridge can load and go
'oh they've asked for a doubletalk PC, guess I'll use that then', but
speakup can't do that ... yet.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

What about a CD with a program on it that would do this? Something in it's
boot code, probably implementing it in to lilo on the CD. I know it's not
practical after installation, as if you know you're switching synths, you
can replace the kernel before you do.
At 04:47 PM 10/21/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Hi:
>
>The difference between installing something like window bridge and
>installing linux is that programs like window bridge have the support for
>all synths built into the package, whereas you need to load a kernel
>specific to the relevant synth for linux.  window bridge can load and go
>'oh they've asked for a doubletalk PC, guess I'll use that then', but
>speakup can't do that ... yet.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>-- 
>Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
>ICQ number 43634701
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Victor Tsaran]

Actually, once I thought about this. What if I, for instance, reburn
Redhat's CD, but instead of their kernel put the Speakup-powered one? This
means I could have a Speaking installation CD of Redhat, right? Now, in the
boot part of CD installation, one could implement a LILO which could speak
through the serial port and have the entries for all known to SPeakup
synthesizers. After users choose the ones they need, LILO would load
necessary kernel. Do you think, such a scheme would work?
Best,
Vic

******* ******* *******
have you thought of visiting Cybertsar's Internet Kingdom? It is still
alive!
Here is the URL:
http://nimbus.ocis.temple.edu/~vtsaran/
******* ******* *******
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent Harding" <bharding@ufw2.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: best way to install linux to a laptop


> What about a CD with a program on it that would do this? Something in it's
> boot code, probably implementing it in to lilo on the CD. I know it's not
> practical after installation, as if you know you're switching synths, you
> can replace the kernel before you do.
> At 04:47 PM 10/21/00 +1100, you wrote:
> >Hi:
> >
> >The difference between installing something like window bridge and
> >installing linux is that programs like window bridge have the support for
> >all synths built into the package, whereas you need to load a kernel
> >specific to the relevant synth for linux.  window bridge can load and go
> >'oh they've asked for a doubletalk PC, guess I'll use that then', but
> >speakup can't do that ... yet.
> >
> >Geoff.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
> >ICQ number 43634701
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Jacob Schmude]

Vic
     You could, I suppose, replace the RH kernel, but I would not call this a trivial task. First, you'd need to mount the ISO image, then basically copy everything over to a writable irectory. If anyone knows differently, I'd love to be corrected on this. Then you can replace the kernel in that directory, but that won't do you a bit of good. I don't know how to get the bootable image out of the ISO 9660 image, which is what you'd have to do. The reason for this is that, the way that ISO9660 images are made bootable, is to have a 1.44 or larger floppy image written at the beginning of them. I'm not sure how red hat creates ther ISO's and how they layout their boot image, so I really don't know how you'd make an RH cd bootable. I suppose you could try and use the dd command. Something like this perhaps:
dd if=/dev/cdrom of=floppy.img bs=1k count=1.44k
but I don't know how good of a result that will give you.
     Having LILO talk through the serial port isn't difficult, however, Some synthesizers won't speak until they receive a special character. Some cases of this are the dectalks, which expect a punctuation mark, and the doubletalks, which expect a carriage return or a NULL character. These two are no problems, but I'm not sure about the BNS or any of the other synths speakup supports. Definitely worth looking into.
     Now, the big problem, again, the boot image. Because of the way iso9660 cds are made bootable, how do you expect to fit all those kernels in the boot image and still have room for the data? Remember, you can't access kernels on the cd from that boot image, so you can't just copy a kernel to the cd and try to load it. Remember that each kernel is about 500K or more, and don't forget the initrd ram-based bootdisk, there goes another 800k at least. Suppose you could try and make it bootable using dtlk.img (or whatever), but I doubt if this will work, as I suspect they use a large boot image.
Victor Tsaran writes:
 > Actually, once I thought about this. What if I, for instance, reburn
 > Redhat's CD, but instead of their kernel put the Speakup-powered one? This
 > means I could have a Speaking installation CD of Redhat, right? Now, in the
 > boot part of CD installation, one could implement a LILO which could speak
 > through the serial port and have the entries for all known to SPeakup
 > synthesizers. After users choose the ones they need, LILO would load
 > necessary kernel. Do you think, such a scheme would work?

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Geoff Shang]

Hi Vic:

OK idea if (1) the installer needs no modification to work with speakup
properly and (2) you're running a serial synth.  If you've a doubletalk PC
then it'd be no good.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

Why would I need to modify base_22.tgz, what did speakup add to that? The
drivers.tgz?
At 06:31 PM 10/19/00 +1100, you wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Buddy Brannan wrote:
>
>> Bear in mind though that if you go the CD route, you'll still need to get
>> the boot and root disks and the base.tgz file from the Speakup FTP site for
>> Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
>> base2-2.tgz file myself.
>
>Only problem with this Buddy is the vexing question of synth selection.  If
>you can devise a good way to pick the synth to use, let us know.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>-- 
>Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
>ICQ number 43634701
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

Can iso's be patched? I mean, upload the master speakup enabled CD, and
have patches to apply to the image file only, so I could do something like
dd if=/dev/cdrom of=speakup.cd, and use diff some how to get the patch
files to patch each synth in?
I tried doing it with wave files, and it didn't work.
At 02:02 AM 10/19/00 -0500, you wrote:
>> > Debian. I think I might play with making a Debian CD with the modified
>> > base2-2.tgz file myself.
>> 
>> Only problem with this Buddy is the vexing question of synth selection.  If
>> you can devise a good way to pick the synth to use, let us know.
>
>Actually I have an idea here. But I don't have all the needed
>knowledge. If one can make a boot floppy that allows for a selection of
>kernels to load, then it shouldn't be too hard. Or one could reley on
>booting to the dreaded dos with cdrom drivers. Then launch loadlin with
>the appropriate kernel image from there.
>
>The other thing one could do is to make several ISO images for CDs based
>on which synth was being used. If concerned about the size of download,
>one could only include a minimum of stuff for the installation.
>
>=======
>Kirk Wood
>Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

RE: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Stephen Dawes]

I have installed Redhat on a laptop successfully.  I would also like to take
the liberty of saying that Bill, WB2FLW has also installed redhat a number
of times on laptops.

Using the speakup installation disk for redhat, and the CD-ROM, I had no
problems in the install process.  I have also used the laptop in a network
install of redhat on to a desktop with no problems.

My recommendation to you, is go for it.



Stephen Dawes B.A. B.Sc.
Web Business Office, The City of Calgary
PHONE:  (403) 268-5527. FAX: (403) 268-6423
E-MAIL ADDRESS:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca




> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Brent Harding
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 6:59 PM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: best way to install linux to a laptop
>
>
> 		I am going to be using linux on some laptop at some
> point. My friend and
> I are going to be getting it going, probably redhat as at least I hear it
> allows one to choose reasonable defaults instead of just being asked
> individually what I want when I'm not sure what every library is
> used in. I
> kind of want to get acquainted more with redhat as my isp uses
> it, and it's
> hardware detectability, seeing I've not a clue yet what the laptop will be
> yet, but I think the synth will be an external double talk. We
> will both be
> trying to learn more about linux by doing this, seeing he hasn't
> experimented around as much as me seeing he didn't want to wipe out
> everything, and thinks everything is so difficult compared to windows. I'm
> likely to use this in a future job opportunity, and I've borrowed
> linux for
> dummies from RFB, a good starting point. If this laptop requires the
> swapping of the CD drive and floppy, how could we obtain a talking install
> and use CD for installing the packages? We have no network we can directly
> use for mounting the CD nfs style on another machine so I can boot from
> floppy. I'm not even sure if the laptop in question could boot from CD.
> Seeing the school network admin would rather run another line
> than allow us
> to put in a hub, and they seem to be slow on it, how can we get
> linx on the
> laptop without sight?
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

Might be worth trying, may just go to linuxmall and get one for a couple
dollars, then I can get familiar with how redhat does something, and see
which is best. How do you deal with the drive swapping? Will linux care, or
recognize when I pop the floppy drive out and put the CD in to mount it?
I mean swapping the drives, as laptops need that now, don't know if this
particular one will have a network card card in to utilize the other
system's cd which does, although one would have to disconnect that from
it's existing network, and hook the cable in to the laptop nic.
Now I've been using zipspeak a little bit, once I back up my current linux
partition I might copy it in for a real test. Getting the floppy tape
drivers compiled may be tough in zipspeak, though. At 07:33 AM 10/18/00
-0600, you wrote:
>I have installed Redhat on a laptop successfully.  I would also like to take
>the liberty of saying that Bill, WB2FLW has also installed redhat a number
>of times on laptops.
>
>Using the speakup installation disk for redhat, and the CD-ROM, I had no
>problems in the install process.  I have also used the laptop in a network
>install of redhat on to a desktop with no problems.
>
>My recommendation to you, is go for it.
>
>
>
>Stephen Dawes B.A. B.Sc.
>Web Business Office, The City of Calgary
>PHONE:  (403) 268-5527. FAX: (403) 268-6423
>E-MAIL ADDRESS:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
>> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of Brent Harding
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 6:59 PM
>> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> Subject: best way to install linux to a laptop
>>
>>
>> 		I am going to be using linux on some laptop at some
>> point. My friend and
>> I are going to be getting it going, probably redhat as at least I hear it
>> allows one to choose reasonable defaults instead of just being asked
>> individually what I want when I'm not sure what every library is
>> used in. I
>> kind of want to get acquainted more with redhat as my isp uses
>> it, and it's
>> hardware detectability, seeing I've not a clue yet what the laptop will be
>> yet, but I think the synth will be an external double talk. We
>> will both be
>> trying to learn more about linux by doing this, seeing he hasn't
>> experimented around as much as me seeing he didn't want to wipe out
>> everything, and thinks everything is so difficult compared to windows. I'm
>> likely to use this in a future job opportunity, and I've borrowed
>> linux for
>> dummies from RFB, a good starting point. If this laptop requires the
>> swapping of the CD drive and floppy, how could we obtain a talking install
>> and use CD for installing the packages? We have no network we can directly
>> use for mounting the CD nfs style on another machine so I can boot from
>> floppy. I'm not even sure if the laptop in question could boot from CD.
>> Seeing the school network admin would rather run another line
>> than allow us
>> to put in a hub, and they seem to be slow on it, how can we get
>> linx on the
>> laptop without sight?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

I do have a CD burner, but it's usb. Why did I be silly enough to get that?
Well, for Christmas I got it, and the most linux I was in to was my isp's
shell account, which when I switched I no longer have. Wouldn't I just dd
the CD to a file, and put in my own kernel?
Like, dd if=/dev/cdrom of=linux.img, and mount it up with
mount -o loop linux.img /mnt? Then just copy in my system kernel, and
unmount? If I did this, however getting this file on CD from linux will be
hard unless there's an usb driver for hp cdwriter 8200 pluses.  Where do
all those packages come from linuxconf can't seem to locate, like setting
up ppp accounts, and the like? It seems not to find the shell it suggests.
If I ever get broadband I might actually use this to dial my system when at
a remote location with my laptop to get online.
There's no other way to tell my linux box to disconnect so I could get on
without getting an initial connection somewhere.
Sharing the IP without ipmasking, (just simply dialing another system on to
it) doesn't work, and I've tested it, both ifconfigs turn up identical when
the machines are online.
At 03:56 PM 10/17/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I will attempt to address a number of issues you have brought up:
>
>1.  Hardware detection: Nearly every distribution can detect
>hardware. The differences come down to configuration methods and placement
>of files. The other difference is installation of pre-packaged
>bianaries. (One other note, I would recomend not I repeat not going with
>RedHat 7 as there could be some compatibility problems with libraries and
>why invite such potential problems starting out?)
>
>2.  Booting from CD, or dealing with posible floppy, CD swap problems. If
>you have access to a CDROM burner, you can make your own bootable CD that
>uses the correct kernel. If this isn't an option, then you will want to
>select either Debian or Slackware. Debian allows downloading most of the
>files. Slackware is laid out in such a manner that installing most things
>from floppy is doable. (Though it will mean a lot of floppys going through
>the drive.)
>
>3.  Selecting a distribution because your ISP uses it makes no
>sense. Having said that, I think Debian can give you all the benifits of
>RedHat and a whole lot more. First, you can install a version of RPM that
>will install RPMs without problem (though it is not the recomended means
>as that doesn't update the dpkg database). Second, you can install
>linuxconf the main program for administering your machine. This is a great
>program and I highly recomend it. You can add users, setup your network,
>and a whole lot more. For ease of administration I haven't found anything
>that beats Linuxconf. While RedHat came out with it, thanks to GPL you can
>easily add it to Debian. (And the package is ready to go.)
>
>The latest Debian will allow you to accept a default install that sets up
>most things needed. It finds PCMCIA if you have it (and removes it if you
>don't). You can easily install it using a PPP acount if you can't bot a
>floppy then mount a CD.
>
>
>=======
>Kirk Wood
>Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

Certainly with some distributions, more than the kernel have been modified
to an extent to allow proper installation.  Debian is the one I'm most
familiar with and I know some other things have been modified in the
install routein to allow it to install in a friendly manner.  So even if
you *could* throw a kernel into a CD image and get it back on to CD, it's
not a recommended way of going about it.

I didn't understand your query about linuxconf and its dependancies.

In response to another point you made, if you have a network (i.e. 2
machines or more) that you want to share one IP address, you must use IP
masquerading.  Why?  Because.  Here's 2 examples.

Example one: Your gateway machine has the shared IP address and also has a
private address on an internal network (e.g. 10.0.0.1).  Another internal
machine has an internal network address of 10.0.0.2.  Any requests from
this internal machine to the net will almost certainly go unanswered, as
the 10.0.0.2 address is unrouted any further out than your local
network.  If you ask some other router on the network what and where that
address is, it either won't know or may even point you to some other
machine on *it's* network.  Anyway, the result is no worky.

Example two: 2 machines on your network are assigned the same IP
address.  Boy, this is asking for trouble.  Requests to the net will again
go out, but will be returned to your gateway machine and not the internal
one.  And that's assuming it even goes out.  Your gateway machine won't
particularly like your routing table, as it'll have 2 entries for the same
address.  You may get around it by putting in a host entry for that
internal machine, but providing this doesn't confuse it too badly, then no
requests made from your gateway machine will then be received by it, as
it'd probably get shunted off to your internal machine.  Again, no good.

The situation is simple.  If you only have one connection to the net, then
the machines on your network need to have propper routed internet IP
addresses or you need to use IP masquerading.  If you have a mixture of the
two, you will still need to run IP masquerading *IF* you want the
machine(s) with private addresses to access the net.  Probably the only
exception to this is where an internal machine is providing a service
accessable from the outside that the gateway machine does not.  In this
case, you'd set up the gateway machine to forward all these requests to the
internal machine.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

Wow, so I can't do this by dialing one line in to my isp at home, and get
on the net from some other location without 2 modems in the linux gateway?
Why is my isp so goofy to even think about assigning my same ip address to
two separate machines? I suppose it's looking up the assigned ip of my
username, and just giving it out. Whether it's ipmasking for me when it
sees this, is highly unlikely, as the laptop got disconnected no more than
about 30 seconds after connecting and checking it's ip with winipcfg to see
what it got.
At 06:29 PM 10/19/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Hi:
>
>Certainly with some distributions, more than the kernel have been modified
>to an extent to allow proper installation.  Debian is the one I'm most
>familiar with and I know some other things have been modified in the
>install routein to allow it to install in a friendly manner.  So even if
>you *could* throw a kernel into a CD image and get it back on to CD, it's
>not a recommended way of going about it.
>
>I didn't understand your query about linuxconf and its dependancies.
>
>In response to another point you made, if you have a network (i.e. 2
>machines or more) that you want to share one IP address, you must use IP
>masquerading.  Why?  Because.  Here's 2 examples.
>
>Example one: Your gateway machine has the shared IP address and also has a
>private address on an internal network (e.g. 10.0.0.1).  Another internal
>machine has an internal network address of 10.0.0.2.  Any requests from
>this internal machine to the net will almost certainly go unanswered, as
>the 10.0.0.2 address is unrouted any further out than your local
>network.  If you ask some other router on the network what and where that
>address is, it either won't know or may even point you to some other
>machine on *it's* network.  Anyway, the result is no worky.
>
>Example two: 2 machines on your network are assigned the same IP
>address.  Boy, this is asking for trouble.  Requests to the net will again
>go out, but will be returned to your gateway machine and not the internal
>one.  And that's assuming it even goes out.  Your gateway machine won't
>particularly like your routing table, as it'll have 2 entries for the same
>address.  You may get around it by putting in a host entry for that
>internal machine, but providing this doesn't confuse it too badly, then no
>requests made from your gateway machine will then be received by it, as
>it'd probably get shunted off to your internal machine.  Again, no good.
>
>The situation is simple.  If you only have one connection to the net, then
>the machines on your network need to have propper routed internet IP
>addresses or you need to use IP masquerading.  If you have a mixture of the
>two, you will still need to run IP masquerading *IF* you want the
>machine(s) with private addresses to access the net.  Probably the only
>exception to this is where an internal machine is providing a service
>accessable from the outside that the gateway machine does not.  In this
>case, you'd set up the gateway machine to forward all these requests to the
>internal machine.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>-- 
>Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
>ICQ number 43634701
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

Well, I guess that's the price you pay for having a static IP address.  I
suppose it could be argued that if that IP is already assigned that it
should allocate you another one, but they'd have no real idea which login
was the one that actually needed that fixed IP.  Of course, the way around
this if I were an ISP is to not allow multiple logins at once.  I'm pretty
sure mine doesn't.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

IP conflicts (was Re: best way to install linux to a laptop)

[Kirk Wood]

Think of an IP address as a phone number with a twist. You see even that
is not the real phone number. Just before sending the information to your
computer an ARP request is sent. It is to resolve which network card (all
have a unique address) belongs to the IP address. If more then one
responds thenwhich shoudl recieve the packet? It becomes unknown and thus
disabled.

Before calling your ISP, check your terms of service. Few allow you to
have more then one machine connected at a time. Call complaining and they
know you are violating their terms of service. You could find your account
suspeded or worse. You will have to speak with the abuse team.


=======
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

I suppose this is the case. Is there any legal wireless connection I could
use up to 10 to 15 miles away to contact my system at home, so I can just
use ipmasking?
At 04:18 PM 10/21/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Hi:
>
>Well, I guess that's the price you pay for having a static IP address.  I
>suppose it could be argued that if that IP is already assigned that it
>should allocate you another one, but they'd have no real idea which login
>was the one that actually needed that fixed IP.  Of course, the way around
>this if I were an ISP is to not allow multiple logins at once.  I'm pretty
>sure mine doesn't.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>-- 
>Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
>ICQ number 43634701
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

You could use some form of wireless ethernet (mightn't go far enough
though) but it wouldn't be secure.  Best thing to do if you have a line you
can use is to set up a PPP server on your machine and dial into it from
wherever you are.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Brent Harding]

I was thinking of that, but then what to use to get on to the internet? I
really don't want to have to get a third phone line if I can help it. I
also wanted to do this to capture audio from a certain machine so I could
receive it at home, and telnet to the other machine to give commands to
start listening to whatever I wanted. One of my friends has road runner
cable internet, and his ip address has never changed yet in 2 to 3 weeks,
so if I could hear the audio he hears at my end I could listen to a lot
more shows than I can with 28.8. He says rr downloads at 1.5 megs a second,
and uploads about 512 k.

>Hi:
>
>You could use some form of wireless ethernet (mightn't go far enough
>though) but it wouldn't be secure.  Best thing to do if you have a line you
>can use is to set up a PPP server on your machine and dial into it from
>wherever you are.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>-- 
>Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
>ICQ number 43634701
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: best way to install linux to a laptop

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

Well you'd only need 2 lines of course, but I'm presuming you're including
a voice line in this that you'd want to keep free.  I guess if you don't
want to get another line, either wait till you get DSL or log your home
machine out when you go out and either dial into it or your ISP, depending
what you want access to.

As for hearing audio from a remote machine, as I said, you'd have to use
icecast or some other audio encoder to retransmit the audio back to you,
and you'd need to tie up their sound card to do this (which they mightn't
be too fussed aboutJ).

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: IP conflicts (was Re: best way to install linux to a laptop)

[Brent Harding]

Oh, they will be offering dsl eventually, and say I could then put more
than one machine online. Are there any free providers that have a toll free
number to dial in to to get online? Is there any way to use services like
freeway to get minutes of free long distance to get online with the nearest
free isp? 
At 03:17 AM 10/21/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Think of an IP address as a phone number with a twist. You see even that
>is not the real phone number. Just before sending the information to your
>computer an ARP request is sent. It is to resolve which network card (all
>have a unique address) belongs to the IP address. If more then one
>responds thenwhich shoudl recieve the packet? It becomes unknown and thus
>disabled.
>
>Before calling your ISP, check your terms of service. Few allow you to
>have more then one machine connected at a time. Call complaining and they
>know you are violating their terms of service. You could find your account
>suspeded or worse. You will have to speak with the abuse team.
>
>
>=======
>Kirk Wood
>Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>