Stupid kernel question

Stupid kernel question

[Buddy Brannan]

Hi,

OK, so I'm reading through the new Slackware book that's online as part of
my campaign to study for LPI certification, and in the kernel section on
building a kernel, it says to do (from the /usr/src/linux directory, after
making a backup of the old kernel, system.map, and so on)
cat arch/i386/boot/zImage > /vmlinuz
(or bzImage, as the case my be)

I never actually noticed the sequence of commands here, since my last step
was always make install, which generally did the correct bit of magic to
get the new kernel working. So...is there any particular reason you copy
the kernel this way, rather than using cp instead? I'd really love to know
if anyone can tell me. ...

Thanks.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: davros@ycardz.com
Voice mail: 877-791-5298
All opinions are all mine!

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Kirk Wood]

Actually, if you use the cp command it works just fine. That is what I
have been using. I don't think the howto specifies how to copy the file,
just to do so. So I have always used the cp command. And for the record,
you can name the new kernel any valid filename as far as I can tell. I
know I have gone to using names that mean something to me. I typically use
a date (8-11) for a general purpose kernel. If it is for a specific reason
I name it such again with a date.

Redhat uses a softlink to make vmlinuz point to a kernel that is like
vmlinuz-2.2.14 (or whatever version of kernel is there). I find making a
softlink to just add more steps. I name it at will and add the entry to
lilo.conf. Then run lilo. This keeps the backup in place and ready for a
screw up. I have made kernels that didn't work. But by adding the entry to
lilo.conf and leaving what was already there exactly where it started has
always left me able to recover from my errors.

Certainly there may be some textbook reason for certain conventions. But
they are at the heart conventions and not rules. Until someone gives me
some reason to name my kernel vmlinuz I can only guess it is so anyone
will know its name. But hey, lilo.conf will clear that mystery up so I
continue in my ways.

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

Seek simplicity -- and distrust it.
		Alfred North Whitehead

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Kirk Reiser]

No reason I can think of.  I use cp all the time and would recommend
it. Maybe they don't know there's a copy command under linux!? 'grin'

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Buddy Brannan]

Very odd indeed. Was wondering, since they later say to copy
arch/i386/boot/system.map to /boot/system.map (using the cp and not cat,
exactly the way one would suppose the operation would be done)=). Well,
you'd *think* that the people who wrote the Slackware book, who also work
extensively (???) on the Slackware site and distro, would know there's such
a thing as cp. But in any case, that brings up another question, somewhat
related...is there any reason to not use make install and do that bit
manually? make install has always worked for me, but maybe I'm missing
something important?

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: davros@ycardz.com
Voice mail: 877-791-5298
All opinions are all mine!

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Frank J. Carmickle]

 I always copy mine by hand.  Then edit my lilo.conf and run lilo.  I have
never used make install so I don't quite know what it does.

FC


On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> Very odd indeed. Was wondering, since they later say to copy
> arch/i386/boot/system.map to /boot/system.map (using the cp and not cat,
> exactly the way one would suppose the operation would be done)=). Well,
> you'd *think* that the people who wrote the Slackware book, who also work
> extensively (???) on the Slackware site and distro, would know there's such
> a thing as cp. But in any case, that brings up another question, somewhat
> related...is there any reason to not use make install and do that bit
> manually? make install has always worked for me, but maybe I'm missing
> something important?
> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> Email: davros@ycardz.com
> Voice mail: 877-791-5298
> All opinions are all mine!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Kerry Hoath]

make install assumes that you have a /vmlinuz and it assumes you want the
old kernel as /vmlinuz.old
It also assumes that your lilo.conf is set up this way. If you have more
kernels in your lilo image or more esoteric requirements you can do the stuff
by hand.

BTW I don't know if I agree with the copy it to system.map idea, in Debian we
have /boot/system.map-kernelversion and it is stated that /system.map overrides
/boot/system.map.kernelversion so be aware of that if procps breaks etc.

Regards, Kerry.
On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 03:20:11PM -0500, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> Very odd indeed. Was wondering, since they later say to copy
> arch/i386/boot/system.map to /boot/system.map (using the cp and not cat,
> exactly the way one would suppose the operation would be done)=). Well,
> you'd *think* that the people who wrote the Slackware book, who also work
> extensively (???) on the Slackware site and distro, would know there's such
> a thing as cp. But in any case, that brings up another question, somewhat
> related...is there any reason to not use make install and do that bit
> manually? make install has always worked for me, but maybe I'm missing
> something important?
> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
> Email: davros@ycardz.com
> Voice mail: 877-791-5298
> All opinions are all mine!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
--
Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.eu.org
Alternates: kerry@emusys.com.au kerry@gotss.spice.net.au or khoath@lis.net.au
ICQ UIN: 8226547

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Brent Harding]

I've never run make install before, knew it existed but was afraid of what
else it does.
At 03:20 PM 8/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Very odd indeed. Was wondering, since they later say to copy
>arch/i386/boot/system.map to /boot/system.map (using the cp and not cat,
>exactly the way one would suppose the operation would be done)=). Well,
>you'd *think* that the people who wrote the Slackware book, who also work
>extensively (???) on the Slackware site and distro, would know there's such
>a thing as cp. But in any case, that brings up another question, somewhat
>related...is there any reason to not use make install and do that bit
>manually? make install has always worked for me, but maybe I'm missing
>something important?
>
>--
>Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
>Email: davros@ycardz.com
>Voice mail: 877-791-5298
>All opinions are all mine!
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Kerry Hoath]

They probably use cat because you can use that to put the kernel ona file;
a block device etc. Also catting a file >another file preserves the
permitions of the original whereas cp doesn't usually. It also means that
if you cat >another file and the file exists; your umask won't come into play.
Those are my ideas on the issue but nothing wrong with cp.
On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 04:13:25PM -0400, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> No reason I can think of.  I use cp all the time and would recommend
> it. Maybe they don't know there's a copy command under linux!? 'grin'
> 
>   Kirk
> 
> -- 
> 
> Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
--
Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.eu.org
Alternates: kerry@emusys.com.au kerry@gotss.spice.net.au or khoath@lis.net.au
ICQ UIN: 8226547

Re: Stupid kernel question

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

Actually, when you use the greater-than symbol and a filename, the shell 
just creates the file if it doesn't exist and send standard output to
it.  If the file exists, the permissions of the *target* file are kept
as they were regardless of the current umask, as you said.  when the
shell creates the new file, it has no way to preserve the permissions of 
the source file because it has no idea where the cat command is getting
its input.  So the permissions of the target are derived from the
current umask of the invoking process.  If you want to preserve the
permissions of the original, use the -p flag of cp.



          HTH.
         Bill in Denver
On Wed, 30 Aug 2000,
Kerry Hoath wrote:

> They probably use cat because you can use that to put the kernel ona file;
> a block device etc. Also catting a file >another file preserves the
> permitions of the original whereas cp doesn't usually. It also means that
> if you cat >another file and the file exists; your umask won't come into play.
> Those are my ideas on the issue but nothing wrong with cp.
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2000 at 04:13:25PM -0400, Kirk Reiser wrote:
> > No reason I can think of.  I use cp all the time and would recommend
> > it. Maybe they don't know there's a copy command under linux!? 'grin'
> > 
> >   Kirk
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
> > e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
> > phone: (519) 661-3061
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Kirk Wood]

They probably use cat because the author just does it that way. Perhaps he
uses it to overwrite what is there and doesn't want to bother with forcing
or confirming it. And so he wrote the book with how he does things.

I have been around too long and seen too many such things to believe that
this would be much different. I hope that the certification will be such
that one need not learn the test writer method of doing business. But I
don't hold out a lot of hope. The certification would certainly be out on
its own if that is pulled off. (I recall one particular stupid M$
certification question that if you failed to use the search command to
find a server you missed the question.

To me that would be like assuming you don't know the idiosyncracies of
your distribution. Let's face it, all distributions have them. But if you
are a competent administrator, you will know them, or learn them if faced
with a machine from an unfamiliar distro.

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

Seek simplicity -- and distrust it.
		Alfred North Whitehead

Re: Stupid kernel question

[brian Moore]

Hmmm, what new slackware book.  want me a copy of that.  would be really
cool.  thanks.  brian.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 8/29/00 at 2:41 PM Buddy Brannan wrote:

>Hi,
>
>OK, so I'm reading through the new Slackware book that's online as part of
>my campaign to study for LPI certification, and in the kernel section on
>building a kernel, it says to do (from the /usr/src/linux directory, after
>making a backup of the old kernel, system.map, and so on)
>cat arch/i386/boot/zImage > /vmlinuz
>(or bzImage, as the case my be)
>
>I never actually noticed the sequence of commands here, since my last step
>was always make install, which generally did the correct bit of magic to
>get the new kernel working. So...is there any particular reason you copy
>the kernel this way, rather than using cp instead? I'd really love to know
>if anyone can tell me. ...
>
>Thanks.
>
>--
>Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
>Email: davros@ycardz.com
>Voice mail: 877-791-5298
>All opinions are all mine!
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Buddy Brannan]

Well, I'm not sure it's available in a huge ginormous tarball, but if you
go to
www.slackware.com
and click on the link that says "Book", you can read it online.


-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV        | And if the ground yawned,
Email: davros@ycardz.com     | I'd step to the side and say,
Phone: (972) 276-6360        | "Hey ground! I'm nobody's lunch!"
Voice mail: (877) 791-5298   | --Eddie From Ohio

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Brent Harding]

What's the deal of redhat and kernel any ways?
Does redhat's kernel compiling differ from debian's or slackware's? I may
soon be accessing a redhat site, so am wondering about some of these
differences, I'm lost with debian and rc.d files, how to make things right,
and no netconfig utility, if I use my base bootstrap to config network and
do no more, on an existing system, could that work?
At 02:20 PM 8/29/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Actually, if you use the cp command it works just fine. That is what I
>have been using. I don't think the howto specifies how to copy the file,
>just to do so. So I have always used the cp command. And for the record,
>you can name the new kernel any valid filename as far as I can tell. I
>know I have gone to using names that mean something to me. I typically use
>a date (8-11) for a general purpose kernel. If it is for a specific reason
>I name it such again with a date.
>
>Redhat uses a softlink to make vmlinuz point to a kernel that is like
>vmlinuz-2.2.14 (or whatever version of kernel is there). I find making a
>softlink to just add more steps. I name it at will and add the entry to
>lilo.conf. Then run lilo. This keeps the backup in place and ready for a
>screw up. I have made kernels that didn't work. But by adding the entry to
>lilo.conf and leaving what was already there exactly where it started has
>always left me able to recover from my errors.
>
>Certainly there may be some textbook reason for certain conventions. But
>they are at the heart conventions and not rules. Until someone gives me
>some reason to name my kernel vmlinuz I can only guess it is so anyone
>will know its name. But hey, lilo.conf will clear that mystery up so I
>continue in my ways.
>
>-- 
>Kirk Wood
>Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
>------------------
>
>Seek simplicity -- and distrust it.
>		Alfred North Whitehead
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

The best place to go when you want to edit system stuff in debian is not
the rc.d directories but /etc/init.d which is where the scripts actually
live.  The files there have more meaningful names generally, and it's just
easier, really.  Note that if you edit anything there, you may well have to
restart the service before it takes effect (e.g. network specs, etc).

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Brent Harding]

Can extra stuff be configured later? What if I get dsl some day, can
network be configured without reinstalling, as I skipped that when I
installed for dialup. What if I want a new program in startup that's not
debian packaged, then how do I implement it?
At 10:55 PM 9/2/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Hi:
>
>The best place to go when you want to edit system stuff in debian is not
>the rc.d directories but /etc/init.d which is where the scripts actually
>live.  The files there have more meaningful names generally, and it's just
>easier, really.  Note that if you edit anything there, you may well have to
>restart the service before it takes effect (e.g. network specs, etc).
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>-- 
>Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
>ICQ number 43634701
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

You should be able to configure your network specs.  If you need to add
hardware, then you'll be set for a kernel recompile most probably.

As for adding programs at start up, the convention for debian is that
scripts live in /etc/init.d and are linked to the appropriate /etc/rcX.d
directory, where X equals run-level.  The scripts have a certain syntax,
accepting certain commands like start, stop, restart, etc.  Look at one for
a worked example.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: Stupid kernel question

[Brent Harding]

Why then is there pcnetconfig after install, but not regular netconfig? It
appears if I want this done automatically, I have to reinstall.
At 05:37 PM 9/3/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Hi:
>
>You should be able to configure your network specs.  If you need to add
>hardware, then you'll be set for a kernel recompile most probably.
>
>As for adding programs at start up, the convention for debian is that
>scripts live in /etc/init.d and are linked to the appropriate /etc/rcX.d
>directory, where X equals run-level.  The scripts have a certain syntax,
>accepting certain commands like start, stop, restart, etc.  Look at one for
>a worked example.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>-- 
>Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
>ICQ number 43634701
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>