* slackware on a very fast machine @ Jude DaShiell ` John G. Heim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Jude DaShiell @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I can't determine when the 10 seconds starts or ends with slackware-Current on this machine since the machine appears to be running too fast to get any usable audible indicators from it any longer. What is the correct syntax to modprobe speakup and have speakup come up on a litetalk synthesizer on ttyS0? I might be able to get slackware to run the speakup.s kernel and if I can do that, I ought to be able to key the modprobe line in once I get in as root. jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: slackware on a very fast machine slackware on a very fast machine Jude DaShiell @ ` John G. Heim ` Rob Hudson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: John G. Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. The syntax is "modprobe speakup_ltlk". But it isn't going to help unless slackware hacked the kernel clode to fix the serial port bug. If they used the speakup code as it is in the kernel, your litetalk won't work. I started trying to make a fork of grml with a patched kernel but never had the time to really get into it. Instead I've been using an FAI disk. FAI is actually an installer system. FAI stands for fully automated install. But they make it real easy to create a live CD. On 06/26/14 14:12, Jude DaShiell wrote: > I can't determine when the 10 seconds starts or ends with > slackware-Current on this machine since the machine appears to be running > too fast to get any usable audible indicators from it any longer. What is > the correct syntax to modprobe speakup and have speakup come up on a > litetalk synthesizer on ttyS0? I might be able to get slackware to run > the speakup.s kernel and if I can do that, I ought to be able to key the > modprobe line in once I get in as root. > > > > jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -- --- John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: slackware on a very fast machine ` John G. Heim @ ` Rob Hudson ` covici ` John G. Heim 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Rob Hudson @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I don't understand why the kernel has serial bugs. Many many many companies still use serial consoles, and in fact, as faras I know, it is still the most common way of interacting directly with rack-mounted computers and some high end routers. What's the deal? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@linux-speakup.org> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 2:24 PM Subject: Re: slackware on a very fast machine > The syntax is "modprobe speakup_ltlk". > > But it isn't going to help unless slackware hacked the kernel clode to > fix the serial port bug. If they used the speakup code as it is in the > kernel, your litetalk won't work. > I started trying to make a fork of grml with a patched kernel but never > had the time to really get into it. Instead I've been using an FAI disk. > FAI is actually an installer system. FAI stands for fully automated > install. But they make it real easy to create a live CD. > On 06/26/14 14:12, Jude DaShiell wrote: >> I can't determine when the 10 seconds starts or ends with >> slackware-Current on this machine since the machine appears to be running >> too fast to get any usable audible indicators from it any longer. What >> is >> the correct syntax to modprobe speakup and have speakup come up on a >> litetalk synthesizer on ttyS0? I might be able to get slackware to run >> the speakup.s kernel and if I can do that, I ought to be able to key the >> modprobe line in once I get in as root. >> >> >> >> jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> > > -- > --- > John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: slackware on a very fast machine ` Rob Hudson @ ` covici ` John G. Heim ` John G. Heim 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: covici @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Its not a kernel bug, its a problem with speakup specifically that makes serial ports not work unless you patch the speakup code and the patch is not a fix, just a workaround. Rob Hudson <captinlogic@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't understand why the kernel has serial bugs. Many many many > companies still use serial consoles, and in fact, as faras I know, it > is still the most common way of interacting directly with rack-mounted > computers and some high end routers. What's the deal? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John G. Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." > <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: slackware on a very fast machine > > > > The syntax is "modprobe speakup_ltlk". > > > > But it isn't going to help unless slackware hacked the kernel clode > > to fix the serial port bug. If they used the speakup code as it is > > in the kernel, your litetalk won't work. > > I started trying to make a fork of grml with a patched kernel but > > never had the time to really get into it. Instead I've been using an > > FAI disk. FAI is actually an installer system. FAI stands for fully > > automated install. But they make it real easy to create a live CD. > > On 06/26/14 14:12, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >> I can't determine when the 10 seconds starts or ends with > >> slackware-Current on this machine since the machine appears to be running > >> too fast to get any usable audible indicators from it any longer. > >> What is > >> the correct syntax to modprobe speakup and have speakup come up on a > >> litetalk synthesizer on ttyS0? I might be able to get slackware to run > >> the speakup.s kernel and if I can do that, I ought to be able to key the > >> modprobe line in once I get in as root. > >> > >> > >> > >> jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Speakup mailing list > >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org > >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > >> > > > > -- > > --- > > John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici covici@ccs.covici.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: slackware on a very fast machine ` covici @ ` John G. Heim 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: John G. Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Well, technically, it is a kernel bug because speakup is part of the kernel. The bug is in the speakup part of the kernel code. I wrote instructions on patching the kernel and put them on the web site of the International Association of visually Impaired Technologists, www.iavit.org. The instructions are for debian but the part about patching the kernel code should work for any distro. See: http://www.iavit.org/~john/debian/build.html On26/14 15:08, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote: > Its not a kernel bug, its a problem with speakup specifically that makes > serial ports not work unless you patch the speakup code and the patch is > not a fix, just a workaround. > > Rob Hudson <captinlogic@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I don't understand why the kernel has serial bugs. Many many many >> companies still use serial consoles, and in fact, as faras I know, it >> is still the most common way of interacting directly with rack-mounted >> computers and some high end routers. What's the deal? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> >> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >> <speakup@linux-speakup.org> >> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 2:24 PM >> Subject: Re: slackware on a very fast machine >> >> >>> The syntax is "modprobe speakup_ltlk". >>> >>> But it isn't going to help unless slackware hacked the kernel clode >>> to fix the serial port bug. If they used the speakup code as it is >>> in the kernel, your litetalk won't work. >>> I started trying to make a fork of grml with a patched kernel but >>> never had the time to really get into it. Instead I've been using an >>> FAI disk. FAI is actually an installer system. FAI stands for fully >>> automated install. But they make it real easy to create a live CD. >>> On 06/26/14 14:12, Jude DaShiell wrote: >>>> I can't determine when the 10 seconds starts or ends with >>>> slackware-Current on this machine since the machine appears to be running >>>> too fast to get any usable audible indicators from it any longer. >>>> What is >>>> the correct syntax to modprobe speakup and have speakup come up on a >>>> litetalk synthesizer on ttyS0? I might be able to get slackware to run >>>> the speakup.s kernel and if I can do that, I ought to be able to key the >>>> modprobe line in once I get in as root. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Speakup mailing list >>>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> --- >>> John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -- --- John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: slackware on a very fast machine ` Rob Hudson ` covici @ ` John G. Heim ` covici ` Trevor Astrope 1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: John G. Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. The serial consoles you are talking about run in what's called user space. When you connect to a serial console, you're actually talking to a server process called getty or agetty. It's not that different from a web server or ssh server. The kernel doesn't know or care about those processes. Accessing the serial port in a kernel module is a totally different process. Of course, you may be saying, "Ah, but I can set up a serial console in the kernel". And this is correct. But that console stops working once the kernel is booted and if you want to continue to use a console on that same serial port you have to set up a getty. If you have a terminal or terminal emulator listening on ttyS0, it may appear to be seamless but it's actually switching from kernel output to a getty. So now maybe you are asking why can't speakup just access the serial port the same way as the kernel serial console? And that I don't know. I suspect that code doesn't do things the "right way" either. The speakup code talks directly to the serial port at address 3F8. you're not supposed to do that. First it calls a function that is part of the regular kernel code that appears to do nothing except return an error code. Upon getting that error code, the speakup code errors out. All you have to do to make it work is comment out the part where the speakup code errors out. But my patch removes the call to the stupid/crazy function as well. That function cannot return a success, so why call it? It's crazy. It makes no sense what so ever. I've asked twice on the kernel mailing list what the speakup code should do instead and got nothing but static. All the answers I got either made no sense or they suggested rewriting the speakup code so that it would run in user space. But that would make it practically useless. The beauty of speakup is that you can get boot messages with it. I was so angry at one point I considered contacting a lawyer. What I really should do is find out how the kernel serial console does it. I'll bet it reads/writes directly to 0x3F8 as well. In that case, the linux kernel developers are discriminating against speakup. The problem doesn't really even effect me that much. I can easily just recompile the kernel. I've got my version of the debian wheezy kernel on about 200 amachines here in my department. But if I have to use grml, I can't use my litetalk. On 06/26/14 15:02, Rob Hudson wrote: > I don't understand why the kernel has serial bugs. Many many many > companies still use serial consoles, and in fact, as faras I know, it is > still the most common way of interacting directly with rack-mounted > computers and some high end routers. What's the deal? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." > <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: slackware on a very fast machine > > >> The syntax is "modprobe speakup_ltlk". >> >> But it isn't going to help unless slackware hacked the kernel clode >> to fix the serial port bug. If they used the speakup code as it is in >> the kernel, your litetalk won't work. >> I started trying to make a fork of grml with a patched kernel but >> never had the time to really get into it. Instead I've been using an >> FAI disk. FAI is actually an installer system. FAI stands for fully >> automated install. But they make it real easy to create a live CD. >> On 06/26/14 14:12, Jude DaShiell wrote: >>> I can't determine when the 10 seconds starts or ends with >>> slackware-Current on this machine since the machine appears to be >>> running >>> too fast to get any usable audible indicators from it any longer. >>> What is >>> the correct syntax to modprobe speakup and have speakup come up on a >>> litetalk synthesizer on ttyS0? I might be able to get slackware to run >>> the speakup.s kernel and if I can do that, I ought to be able to key the >>> modprobe line in once I get in as root. >>> >>> >>> >>> jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>> >> >> -- >> --- >> John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- --- John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: slackware on a very fast machine ` John G. Heim @ ` covici ` Trevor Astrope 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: covici @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Well, the serial console code in the kernel does write directly to the port, but it seems to be only working during the early boot -- I should look at this again, this is how I wrote the first serial driver for speakup -- coping the serial code, but at the time speakup was not part of the kernel, in order to be part of the kernel, things had to change a lot. John G. Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote: > > > The serial consoles you are talking about run in what's called user > space. When you connect to a serial console, you're actually talking > to a server process called getty or agetty. It's not that different > from a web server or ssh server. The kernel doesn't know or care about > those processes. Accessing the serial port in a kernel module is a > totally different process. > > Of course, you may be saying, "Ah, but I can set up a serial console > in the kernel". And this is correct. But that console stops working > once the kernel is booted and if you want to continue to use a console > on that same serial port you have to set up a getty. If you have a > terminal or terminal emulator listening on ttyS0, it may appear to be > seamless but it's actually switching from kernel output to a getty. > > So now maybe you are asking why can't speakup just access the serial > port the same way as the kernel serial console? And that I don't > know. I suspect that code doesn't do things the "right way" > either. The speakup code talks directly to the serial port at address > 3F8. you're not supposed to do that. First it calls a function that is > part of the regular kernel code that appears to do nothing except > return an error code. Upon getting that error code, the speakup code > errors out. All you have to do to make it work is comment out the part > where the speakup code errors out. But my patch removes the call to > the stupid/crazy function as well. > > That function cannot return a success, so why call it? It's crazy. It > makes no sense what so ever. I've asked twice on the kernel mailing > list what the speakup code should do instead and got nothing but > static. All the answers I got either made no sense or they suggested > rewriting the speakup code so that it would run in user space. But > that would make it practically useless. The beauty of speakup is that > you can get boot messages with it. > > I was so angry at one point I considered contacting a lawyer. What I > really should do is find out how the kernel serial console does > it. I'll bet it reads/writes directly to 0x3F8 as well. In that case, > the linux kernel developers are discriminating against speakup. > > The problem doesn't really even effect me that much. I can easily just > recompile the kernel. I've got my version of the debian wheezy kernel > on about 200 amachines here in my department. But if I have to use > grml, I can't use my litetalk. > > > > > On 06/26/14 15:02, Rob Hudson wrote: > > I don't understand why the kernel has serial bugs. Many many many > > companies still use serial consoles, and in fact, as faras I know, it is > > still the most common way of interacting directly with rack-mounted > > computers and some high end routers. What's the deal? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> > > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." > > <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 2:24 PM > > Subject: Re: slackware on a very fast machine > > > > > >> The syntax is "modprobe speakup_ltlk". > >> > >> But it isn't going to help unless slackware hacked the kernel clode > >> to fix the serial port bug. If they used the speakup code as it is in > >> the kernel, your litetalk won't work. > >> I started trying to make a fork of grml with a patched kernel but > >> never had the time to really get into it. Instead I've been using an > >> FAI disk. FAI is actually an installer system. FAI stands for fully > >> automated install. But they make it real easy to create a live CD. > >> On 06/26/14 14:12, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >>> I can't determine when the 10 seconds starts or ends with > >>> slackware-Current on this machine since the machine appears to be > >>> running > >>> too fast to get any usable audible indicators from it any longer. > >>> What is > >>> the correct syntax to modprobe speakup and have speakup come up on a > >>> litetalk synthesizer on ttyS0? I might be able to get slackware to run > >>> the speakup.s kernel and if I can do that, I ought to be able to key the > >>> modprobe line in once I get in as root. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Speakup mailing list > >>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org > >>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> --- > >> John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Speakup mailing list > >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org > >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- > --- > John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici covici@ccs.covici.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: slackware on a very fast machine ` John G. Heim ` covici @ ` Trevor Astrope 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Trevor Astrope @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. One side effect of commenting out the error check or the function that returns it is that you cannot unload the speakup module. Speakup will stop speaking, but the module won't be unloaded, so you can't reload it without rebooting. It is still better than nothing, but it is far from an ideal solution. On Thu, 26 Jun 2014, John G. Heim wrote: > > > The serial consoles you are talking about run in what's called user space. > When you connect to a serial console, you're actually talking to a server > process called getty or agetty. It's not that different from a web server or > ssh server. The kernel doesn't know or care about those processes. Accessing > the serial port in a kernel module is a totally different process. > > Of course, you may be saying, "Ah, but I can set up a serial console in the > kernel". And this is correct. But that console stops working once the kernel > is booted and if you want to continue to use a console on that same serial > port you have to set up a getty. If you have a terminal or terminal emulator > listening on ttyS0, it may appear to be seamless but it's actually switching > from kernel output to a getty. > > So now maybe you are asking why can't speakup just access the serial port the > same way as the kernel serial console? And that I don't know. I suspect that > code doesn't do things the "right way" either. The speakup code talks > directly to the serial port at address 3F8. you're not supposed to do that. > First it calls a function that is part of the regular kernel code that > appears to do nothing except return an error code. Upon getting that error > code, the speakup code errors out. All you have to do to make it work is > comment out the part where the speakup code errors out. But my patch removes > the call to the stupid/crazy function as well. > > That function cannot return a success, so why call it? It's crazy. It makes > no sense what so ever. I've asked twice on the kernel mailing list what the > speakup code should do instead and got nothing but static. All the answers I > got either made no sense or they suggested rewriting the speakup code so that > it would run in user space. But that would make it practically useless. The > beauty of speakup is that you can get boot messages with it. > > I was so angry at one point I considered contacting a lawyer. What I really > should do is find out how the kernel serial console does it. I'll bet it > reads/writes directly to 0x3F8 as well. In that case, the linux kernel > developers are discriminating against speakup. > > The problem doesn't really even effect me that much. I can easily just > recompile the kernel. I've got my version of the debian wheezy kernel on > about 200 amachines here in my department. But if I have to use grml, I can't > use my litetalk. > > > > > On 06/26/14 15:02, Rob Hudson wrote: >> I don't understand why the kernel has serial bugs. Many many many >> companies still use serial consoles, and in fact, as faras I know, it is >> still the most common way of interacting directly with rack-mounted >> computers and some high end routers. What's the deal? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John G. Heim" <jheim@math.wisc.edu> >> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >> <speakup@linux-speakup.org> >> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 2:24 PM >> Subject: Re: slackware on a very fast machine >> >> >>> The syntax is "modprobe speakup_ltlk". >>> >>> But it isn't going to help unless slackware hacked the kernel clode >>> to fix the serial port bug. If they used the speakup code as it is in >>> the kernel, your litetalk won't work. >>> I started trying to make a fork of grml with a patched kernel but >>> never had the time to really get into it. Instead I've been using an >>> FAI disk. FAI is actually an installer system. FAI stands for fully >>> automated install. But they make it real easy to create a live CD. >>> On 06/26/14 14:12, Jude DaShiell wrote: >>>> I can't determine when the 10 seconds starts or ends with >>>> slackware-Current on this machine since the machine appears to be >>>> running >>>> too fast to get any usable audible indicators from it any longer. >>>> What is >>>> the correct syntax to modprobe speakup and have speakup come up on a >>>> litetalk synthesizer on ttyS0? I might be able to get slackware to run >>>> the speakup.s kernel and if I can do that, I ought to be able to key the >>>> modprobe line in once I get in as root. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Speakup mailing list >>>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> --- >>> John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- > --- > John G. Heim, 608-263-4189, jheim@math.wisc.edu > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~ UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
slackware on a very fast machine Jude DaShiell
` John G. Heim
` Rob Hudson
` covici
` John G. Heim
` John G. Heim
` covici
` Trevor Astrope
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).