Lowering default espeakup speed?

Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

We are getting contradictory feedback from users:

- a lot of them find espeakup too fast
- a lot of them find it too slow

so I'm wondering whether the current default speed (the average) is
really a good default value.  People who want fast speed are usually
also those who are able to find in the documentation how to request
speed increase, while those who prefer a slow speed are often beginners
who have no clue about such things.  So the idea would be that the
default would be a "welcoming" slow speed, which people would be able to
increase at will along getting used to it.

What do people think about it?

Samuel

Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Samuel:

It's good that you're considering the particular needs of beginning
users. I think you're very correct that those of us who want fast speech
will know how to readily adjust speech speed to our preferred rate.

However, I have a caution I would like to express on this topic. In my
experience much of beginning user problems with synthetic speech is
simply the fact that it is synthetic and not human speech. Intonation is
different, pronunciation is different, etc. etc. But beginners will not
express their confusion in these terms. The common understanding is that
slowing speech down will increase comprehension. But this is only true
up to a point. Comprehension cal also be impeded by going too slowly,
much like trying to ride a bicycle too slowly results in a rider falling
over.

The best cure, imo, is not listening, but creating content. The
beginning user who is typing will learn to understand the TTS engine far
faster than someone who just listens. This is because one knows what one
is typing and thus can more quickly associate the TTS engine's way of
saying things against their expectations of how certain content should
be spoken.

My bottom line is please don't set the default too slow. I would tend
toward slightly slower than average speaking rate.

Janina

Samuel Thibault writes:
> Hello,
> 
> We are getting contradictory feedback from users:
> 
> - a lot of them find espeakup too fast
> - a lot of them find it too slow
> 
> so I'm wondering whether the current default speed (the average) is
> really a good default value.  People who want fast speed are usually
> also those who are able to find in the documentation how to request
> speed increase, while those who prefer a slow speed are often beginners
> who have no clue about such things.  So the idea would be that the
> default would be a "welcoming" slow speed, which people would be able to
> increase at will along getting used to it.
> 
> What do people think about it?
> 
> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

The Linux Foundation
Chair, Open Accessibility:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Samuel Thibault]

Sebastian Humenda, le Mon 23 Jul 2012 17:19:03 +0200, a écrit :
> >so I'm wondering whether the current default speed (the average) is
> >really a good default value.  People who want fast speed are usually
> >also those who are able to find in the documentation how to request
> >speed increase, while those who prefer a slow speed are often beginners
> >who have no clue about such things.  So the idea would be that the
> >default would be a "welcoming" slow speed, which people would be able to
> Is the current default speed the one you refering to e. g. by invoking espeak on
> the shell (-s 150)?

No, it's quite faster. As said in the title, I mean the default espeakup
speed :) (rated 5 there) From what I read in the espeakup source, that'd
be espeak -s 254.  It indeed hears so in my ears.

I was thinking about espeakup rate 2 or 3, which are -s 152 and -s 186.

> This one should be ok, since it's already very slow. People
> I've met (and which didn't use a speech synthesizer before) understood text
> spoken with this speed.

I agree.

> In general, I think a „welcoming” speed is the best.

Ok.

Samuel

Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Samuel Thibault]

Janina Sajka, le Mon 23 Jul 2012 11:26:51 -0400, a écrit :
> My bottom line is please don't set the default too slow.

Sure, understood.

> I would tend toward slightly slower than average speaking rate.

i.e. espeak -s 152 or 186?

Samuel

Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Janina Sajka]

Samuel Thibault writes:
> Janina Sajka, le Mon 23 Jul 2012 11:26:51 -0400, a écrit :
> > My bottom line is please don't set the default too slow.
> 
> Sure, understood.
> 
> > I would tend toward slightly slower than average speaking rate.
> 
> i.e. espeak -s 152 or 186?
> 

I'd say 150, though I can't actually test this right now because of the
inbuilt pulse audio preference!


Janina

> Samuel
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

The Linux Foundation
Chair, Open Accessibility:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

RE: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Albert Sten-Clanton]

Samuel, I haven't found the default espeakup speed too fast.  The trouble I
had was getting used to its pronunciation at the beginning.  And I'm not one
of these speed demons I envy.  :-)  

Al 

-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Samuel
Thibault
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:13 AM
To: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org; speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Lowering default espeakup speed?

Hello,

We are getting contradictory feedback from users:

- a lot of them find espeakup too fast
- a lot of them find it too slow

so I'm wondering whether the current default speed (the average) is really a
good default value.  People who want fast speed are usually also those who
are able to find in the documentation how to request speed increase, while
those who prefer a slow speed are often beginners who have no clue about
such things.  So the idea would be that the default would be a "welcoming"
slow speed, which people would be able to increase at will along getting
used to it.

What do people think about it?

Samuel
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Samuel Thibault]

Albert Sten-Clanton, le Mon 23 Jul 2012 18:38:31 -0400, a écrit :
> Samuel, I haven't found the default espeakup speed too fast.  The trouble I
> had was getting used to its pronunciation at the beginning.

Does slowing it down a bit make the learning curve quite easier?

Samuel

Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Glenn]

I always speed it up to about 75, but I think at least 60 is okay for 
starters.
Glenn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Samuel Thibault" <sthibault@debian.org>
To: <debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org>; <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:13 AM
Subject: Lowering default espeakup speed?


Hello,

We are getting contradictory feedback from users:

- a lot of them find espeakup too fast
- a lot of them find it too slow

so I'm wondering whether the current default speed (the average) is
really a good default value.  People who want fast speed are usually
also those who are able to find in the documentation how to request
speed increase, while those who prefer a slow speed are often beginners
who have no clue about such things.  So the idea would be that the
default would be a "welcoming" slow speed, which people would be able to
increase at will along getting used to it.

What do people think about it?

Samuel
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup 

Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Glenn]

That number must be relatively different than it is in Orca, which is what I 
was thinking of when I wrote that I like it at 75.
Glenn
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Samuel Thibault" <sthibault@debian.org>
To: <debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org>
Cc: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?


Sebastian Humenda, le Mon 23 Jul 2012 17:19:03 +0200, a écrit :
> >so I'm wondering whether the current default speed (the average) is
> >really a good default value.  People who want fast speed are usually
> >also those who are able to find in the documentation how to request
> >speed increase, while those who prefer a slow speed are often beginners
> >who have no clue about such things.  So the idea would be that the
> >default would be a "welcoming" slow speed, which people would be able to
> Is the current default speed the one you refering to e. g. by invoking 
> espeak on
> the shell (-s 150)?

No, it's quite faster. As said in the title, I mean the default espeakup
speed :) (rated 5 there) From what I read in the espeakup source, that'd
be espeak -s 254.  It indeed hears so in my ears.

I was thinking about espeakup rate 2 or 3, which are -s 152 and -s 186.

> This one should be ok, since it's already very slow. People
> I've met (and which didn't use a speech synthesizer before) understood 
> text
> spoken with this speed.

I agree.

> In general, I think a „welcoming” speed is the best.

Ok.

Samuel

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Lowering default espeakup speed?

[Albert Sten-Clanton]

Samuel, I probably did my getting use to the speech at a faster rate than
the default, but certainly somewhat slow to start with is very helpful if
not essential.  I don't know what default speed to recommend, however, and I
do not think I'll complain if you find that a slower default speed makes
sense, even if only a minority of users need it.  

Al 

-----Original Message-----
From: Speakup [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Samuel
Thibault
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 7:43 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.;
debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Lowering default espeakup speed?

Albert Sten-Clanton, le Mon 23 Jul 2012 18:38:31 -0400, a écrit :
> Samuel, I haven't found the default espeakup speed too fast.  The 
> trouble I had was getting used to its pronunciation at the beginning.

Does slowing it down a bit make the learning curve quite easier?

Samuel
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup