you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Chris Brannon]

So alsa-lib 1.1.2 breaks a couple things that use espeak,
notably both espeakup and the espeak speech server for emacspeak.
You'll start to have lockups after a bit of use.
Here's what little I have been able to piece together so far.

http://the-brannons.com/alsa-espeak.txt

-- Chris

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Zachary Kline]

Chris et al,

Curious. Is this possibly already in some mainstream distros, like ArchLinux? I’ve noticed periodic, but seemingly random lockups for a while now, but attributed them to a kernel upgrade.
Thanks for the info,
Zack.
> On Aug 8, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Chris Brannon <chris@the-brannons.com> wrote:
> 
> So alsa-lib 1.1.2 breaks a couple things that use espeak,
> notably both espeakup and the espeak speech server for emacspeak.
> You'll start to have lockups after a bit of use.
> Here's what little I have been able to piece together so far.
> 
> http://the-brannons.com/alsa-espeak.txt
> 
> -- Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Chris Brannon]

Zachary Kline <zkline@speedpost.net> writes:

> Curious. Is this possibly already in some mainstream distros, like
> ArchLinux?

Hi Zack,
Yes alsa-lib 1.1.2 is in Arch Linux.  Apparently it is in some of the
more bleeding edge branches of Debian as well, although I do not know
which ones.

-- Chris

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Kyle]

I was ready to release TalkingArch this month, just a little late. Looks 
like I may need to hold off until next month. Is this a mostly correct 
assessment, or is my build from Saturday OK to continue the testing and 
sign-off process? Thanks for the heads-up.
Sent from 3121

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Chris Brannon]

Kyle <kyle4jesus@gmail.com> writes:

> I was ready to release TalkingArch this month, just a little
> late. Looks like I may need to hold off until next month. Is this a
> mostly correct assessment, or is my build from Saturday OK to continue
> the testing and sign-off process? Thanks for the heads-up.

I don't know which package your Saturday build contains.
When did 1.1.2 hit [extra]?  It was probably sometime close to then.
If you've got alsa-lib 1.1.1 or older, you should be good to go.

So I've spent the best part of 3 hours tonight looking at the espeak
source.  I'm reasonably convinced there's a race condition in the audio
output code, even though it looks like plenty of care was taken to
guarantee that this couldn't happen.  Or maybe I'm seeing
things that aren't really there, and there's no race after all.
Sometimes I feel like the most phony of amateurs.
Anyway what I think happened is that a change to the alsa library has
done something to trigger a race condition that has been around for a
long time.

-- Chris

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Mike Ray]

Could this be what is causing the sd_espeak module of speech-dispatcher
to regularly crash and be unloaded when using speech-dispatcher set to
'AudioOutputMethod "alsa' ?

Mike




On 09/08/2016 11:58, Chris Brannon wrote:
> Kyle <kyle4jesus@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I was ready to release TalkingArch this month, just a little
>> late. Looks like I may need to hold off until next month. Is this a
>> mostly correct assessment, or is my build from Saturday OK to continue
>> the testing and sign-off process? Thanks for the heads-up.
> 
> I don't know which package your Saturday build contains.
> When did 1.1.2 hit [extra]?  It was probably sometime close to then.
> If you've got alsa-lib 1.1.1 or older, you should be good to go.
> 
> So I've spent the best part of 3 hours tonight looking at the espeak
> source.  I'm reasonably convinced there's a race condition in the audio
> output code, even though it looks like plenty of care was taken to
> guarantee that this couldn't happen.  Or maybe I'm seeing
> things that aren't really there, and there's no race after all.
> Sometimes I feel like the most phony of amateurs.
> Anyway what I think happened is that a change to the alsa library has
> done something to trigger a race condition that has been around for a
> long time.
> 
> -- Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 


-- 
Michael A. Ray
Analyst/Programmer
Witley, Surrey, South-east UK

Eyes-free Linux:
http://eyesfreelinux.ninja/

Raspberry VI:
http://www.raspberryvi.org/

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Jude DaShiell]

Very likely, espeak was crashing just on console use with command line 
interface over here.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016, Mike Ray wrote:

> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 07:12:23
> From: Mike Ray <mike@raspberryvi.org>
> To: speakup@linux-speakup.org
> Subject: Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2
> 
>
> Could this be what is causing the sd_espeak module of speech-dispatcher
> to regularly crash and be unloaded when using speech-dispatcher set to
> 'AudioOutputMethod "alsa' ?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> On 09/08/2016 11:58, Chris Brannon wrote:
>> Kyle <kyle4jesus@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> I was ready to release TalkingArch this month, just a little
>>> late. Looks like I may need to hold off until next month. Is this a
>>> mostly correct assessment, or is my build from Saturday OK to continue
>>> the testing and sign-off process? Thanks for the heads-up.
>> 
>> I don't know which package your Saturday build contains.
>> When did 1.1.2 hit [extra]?  It was probably sometime close to then.
>> If you've got alsa-lib 1.1.1 or older, you should be good to go.
>> 
>> So I've spent the best part of 3 hours tonight looking at the espeak
>> source.  I'm reasonably convinced there's a race condition in the audio
>> output code, even though it looks like plenty of care was taken to
>> guarantee that this couldn't happen.  Or maybe I'm seeing
>> things that aren't really there, and there's no race after all.
>> Sometimes I feel like the most phony of amateurs.
>> Anyway what I think happened is that a change to the alsa library has
>> done something to trigger a race condition that has been around for a
>> long time.
>> 
>> -- Chris
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>
>
> -- 
> Michael A. Ray
> Analyst/Programmer
> Witley, Surrey, South-east UK
>
> Eyes-free Linux:
> http://eyesfreelinux.ninja/
>
> Raspberry VI:
> http://www.raspberryvi.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Chris Brannon]

Mike Ray <mike@raspberryvi.org> writes:

> Could this be what is causing the sd_espeak module of speech-dispatcher
> to regularly crash and be unloaded when using speech-dispatcher set to
> 'AudioOutputMethod "alsa' ?

Mike,
It might be a similar issue on the Speech Dispatcher side.  They're not
directly related, since Speech Dispatcher uses its own audio output
code, rather than letting espeak handle audio output on its own.  If you
started noticing new and unexpected sd_espeak crashes after upgrading
your alsa library, then Speech Dispatcher's alsa code may not be playing
well with the new library either.

-- Chris

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[covici]

I use gnome and speech dispatcher and espeak, but I am always cautious,
so I did not upgrade the library when I was asked.

Chris Brannon <chris@the-brannons.com> wrote:

> Mike Ray <mike@raspberryvi.org> writes:
> 
> > Could this be what is causing the sd_espeak module of speech-dispatcher
> > to regularly crash and be unloaded when using speech-dispatcher set to
> > 'AudioOutputMethod "alsa' ?
> 
> Mike,
> It might be a similar issue on the Speech Dispatcher side.  They're not
> directly related, since Speech Dispatcher uses its own audio output
> code, rather than letting espeak handle audio output on its own.  If you
> started noticing new and unexpected sd_espeak crashes after upgrading
> your alsa library, then Speech Dispatcher's alsa code may not be playing
> well with the new library either.
> 
> -- Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Zachary Kline]

Hi All,

One area I’m curious about is if this might actually be a flaw in the way Espeak/Espeakup handles Alsa. Espeak itself hasn’t been updated i quit a while, and I wonder if it might be showing its age.
I guess those with coding skill can look into this better than I.


> On Aug 9, 2016, at 3:58 AM, Chris Brannon <chris@the-brannons.com> wrote:
> 
> Kyle <kyle4jesus@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I was ready to release TalkingArch this month, just a little
>> late. Looks like I may need to hold off until next month. Is this a
>> mostly correct assessment, or is my build from Saturday OK to continue
>> the testing and sign-off process? Thanks for the heads-up.
> 
> I don't know which package your Saturday build contains.
> When did 1.1.2 hit [extra]?  It was probably sometime close to then.
> If you've got alsa-lib 1.1.1 or older, you should be good to go.
> 
> So I've spent the best part of 3 hours tonight looking at the espeak
> source.  I'm reasonably convinced there's a race condition in the audio
> output code, even though it looks like plenty of care was taken to
> guarantee that this couldn't happen.  Or maybe I'm seeing
> things that aren't really there, and there's no race after all.
> Sometimes I feel like the most phony of amateurs.
> Anyway what I think happened is that a change to the alsa library has
> done something to trigger a race condition that has been around for a
> long time.
> 
> -- Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[covici]

Thanks for the hint, I will maks it off till I hear different.

Chris Brannon <chris@the-brannons.com> wrote:

> So alsa-lib 1.1.2 breaks a couple things that use espeak,
> notably both espeakup and the espeak speech server for emacspeak.
> You'll start to have lockups after a bit of use.
> Here's what little I have been able to piece together so far.
> 
> http://the-brannons.com/alsa-espeak.txt
> 
> -- Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Kirk Reiser]

I am definitely experiencing loss of sound with alsa lib 1.1.2,
however it is not locking up my system, just killing the sound
output. I've found that if I do killall -9 espeakup and then espeakup
it will re-initialize my sound. It happens a lot though and thus is
very iritating in it's own right.


On Mon, 8 Aug 2016, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:

> Thanks for the hint, I will maks it off till I hear different.
>
> Chris Brannon <chris@the-brannons.com> wrote:
>
>> So alsa-lib 1.1.2 breaks a couple things that use espeak,
>> notably both espeakup and the espeak speech server for emacspeak.
>> You'll start to have lockups after a bit of use.
>> Here's what little I have been able to piece together so far.
>> 
>> http://the-brannons.com/alsa-espeak.txt
>> 
>> -- Chris
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>
> -- 
> Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
> How do
> you spend it?
>
>         John Covici
>         covici@ccs.covici.com
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Well that's it then, colour me secure!

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Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Jason White]

Chris Brannon <chris@the-brannons.com> wrote:
> So alsa-lib 1.1.2 breaks a couple things that use espeak,
> notably both espeakup and the espeak speech server for emacspeak.
> You'll start to have lockups after a bit of use.

I have a long-running espeakup process here which, now that I give it more
thought, may have been started prior to the 1.1.2 upgrade and may still be
using the older version of the library.

Perhaps I shouldn't kill and restart it for testing purposes, although I will
if anyone wants testing done - I have a braille display connected, so the
absence of speech output wouldn't be a major concern.

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Chris Brannon]

Jason White <jason@jasonjgw.net> writes:

> I have a long-running espeakup process here which, now that I give it more
> thought, may have been started prior to the 1.1.2 upgrade and may still be
> using the older version of the library.

Yes, that's pretty likely.  I'm writing this from emacspeak, and my
speech server has been up since July 23rd, a week or two prior to the
alsa upgrade.  My espeakup was fine until yesterday, when I restarted it
because Kirk said that his had gone flaky.
In any case, if LIBASOUND_THREAD_SAFE=0 is exported in your environment
when you start espeakup or the emacspeak server, you won't have the
issue either.  If you're stuck with the new library for some reason, or
you just want to have something that can talk while you are testing,
this is a viable short-term workaround.

-- Chris

Re: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2

[Jude DaShiell]

Chris, thanks much!  I was wondering what took down my talkingarch 
system!  Fortunately I have the downgrade script installed so I can not 
only downgrade alsalib but also put it on the ignore list until further 
notice.  Something that wasn't mentioned in archlinux documentation was 
if you want to take something off the ignore list explicitly install it 
with the -S option and answer yes to the prompt about the package being 
on the ignore list and you get the package installed.

On Mon, 8 Aug 2016, Chris Brannon wrote:

> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 19:40:24
> From: Chris Brannon <chris@the-brannons.com>
> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>     <speakup@linux-speakup.org>
> To: speakup@linux-speakup.org
> Subject: you really do not want to upgrade to alsa-lib 1.1.2
> 
> So alsa-lib 1.1.2 breaks a couple things that use espeak,
> notably both espeakup and the espeak speech server for emacspeak.
> You'll start to have lockups after a bit of use.
> Here's what little I have been able to piece together so far.
>
> http://the-brannons.com/alsa-espeak.txt
>
> -- Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@linux-speakup.org
> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup

--