* getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together @ John G Heim ` Didier Spaier ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: John G Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. What is the trick to getting speakup with software speech and orca to work at the same time. I have both debian stretch and ubuntu bionic systems and on both machines, I have to disable espeakup to get orca to work. If I disable espeakup via the command, "systemctl disable espeakup" and reboot, orca works as normal. If I re-enable espeakup via, "systemctl enable espeakup", then I get no speech on the login screen or after I log in. After I log in, even playing sounds via aplay does not work. I have a vague memory of having to recompile espeakup or something to get that to work. -- -- John G. Heim; jheim@math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together John G Heim @ ` Didier Spaier ` Samuel Thibault ` Janina Sajka 1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Didier Spaier @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Samuel THIBAULT, John G Heim; +Cc: speakup That's a long standing issue with Debian and derivatives' handling of audio cf. the Debian accessibility mailing list: https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/ And especially the thread that begins with this message: https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html I tried to help on that, to no avail. Workarounds that I know as of today: 1) Remove pulseaudio and install the libspeakup-ng Debian package patched by Samuel: https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/11/msg00065.html Instructions: https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/sid-tmp/libespeak-ng1_1.49.2+dfsg-7~0_amd64.deb However, I don't know if theses packages can be used wuth stretch @Samuel: please tell us if it's possible, or if you will backport these packages. Caveat: I can't provide help to remove pulseaudio (which I generally do not recommend) as I am neither a Debian nor Ubuntu user. 2) Install a distribution that does not have this issue, like Slint. Didier -- Didier Spaier http://slint.fr On 19/11/2018 21:19, John G Heim wrote: > What is the trick to getting speakup with software speech and orca to work at the same time. I have both debian stretch and ubuntu bionic systems and on both machines, I have to disable espeakup to get orca to work. If I disable espeakup via the command, "systemctl disable espeakup" and reboot, orca works as normal. If I re-enable espeakup via, "systemctl enable espeakup", then I get no speech on the login screen or after I log in. After I log in, even playing sounds via aplay does not work. > > I have a vague memory of having to recompile espeakup or something to get that to work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Didier Spaier @ ` Samuel Thibault ` John G Heim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Didier Spaier; +Cc: John G Heim, speakup, debian-accessibility Hello, > On 19/11/2018 21:19, John G Heim wrote: > > What is the trick to getting speakup with software speech and orca to work at the same time. I have both debian stretch and ubuntu bionic systems and on both machines, I have to disable espeakup to get orca to work. Didier Spaier, le lun. 19 nov. 2018 21:59:28 +0100, a ecrit: > That's a long standing issue with Debian and derivatives' handling of audio cf. the Debian accessibility mailing list: > https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/ > And especially the thread that begins with this message: > https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html > > I tried to help on that, to no avail. > > Workarounds that I know as of today: > 1) Remove pulseaudio and install the libspeakup-ng Debian package patched by Samuel: > https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/11/msg00065.html > Instructions: > https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/sid-tmp/libespeak-ng1_1.49.2+dfsg-7~0_amd64.deb > However, I don't know if theses packages can be used wuth stretch There is no need to install that package in Stretch. The issue that that package is fixing is due to the pause implementation meant to work around the very issue he is having. That pause implementation wasn't in Stretch, it's only in Buster. The pause implementation requires a Linux kernel change, so that won't be backported to Stretch unfortunately. > Caveat: I can't provide help to remove pulseaudio (which I generally do not recommend) In Stretch, there is no real choice: unless configuring dmix, having pulseaudio installed necessarily means conflicts between the espeakup daemon and Orca. In Buster, it's not a solution, since the version of firefox there requires pulseaudio. Thus the pause implementation in espeakup, to make it release the sound board for Orca to take it. Conversely, when switching off from the X session to the Linux console, we'd need to make Orca release the sound board. It actually happens already when switching to a Linux console where the user is not logged in, because pulseaudio releases the sound board in that case. Now, as you mentioned, Slint does not have the issue, because it uses the dmix plugin. Now, to repeat myself: - it would be useful to document how to configure dmix on the wiki https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility - enabling dmix by default in Debian could be an option, it "just" needs to be discussed with the alsa maintainers. If nobody takes the time to do this, we'll stay with the issue. Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Samuel Thibault @ ` John G Heim ` Zachary Kline ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: John G Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Didier Spaier, speakup I found a vague howto on getting dmix to work but it says that if you use dmix, you have to configure each sound app to use it. Is that right? It seems more trouble than it is worth. Is this problem part of the kernel-space vs user-space problem? I would settle for getting speech during start up. I can probably put something in the X11 configuration to disable espeakup once the GUI starts up. But I am wondering if there is a path forward on this. future. On 11/19/18 3:21 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Hello, > >> On 19/11/2018 21:19, John G Heim wrote: >>> What is the trick to getting speakup with software speech and orca to work at the same time. I have both debian stretch and ubuntu bionic systems and on both machines, I have to disable espeakup to get orca to work. > > Didier Spaier, le lun. 19 nov. 2018 21:59:28 +0100, a ecrit: >> That's a long standing issue with Debian and derivatives' handling of audio cf. the Debian accessibility mailing list: >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/ >> And especially the thread that begins with this message: >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html >> >> I tried to help on that, to no avail. >> >> Workarounds that I know as of today: >> 1) Remove pulseaudio and install the libspeakup-ng Debian package patched by Samuel: >> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/11/msg00065.html >> Instructions: >> https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/sid-tmp/libespeak-ng1_1.49.2+dfsg-7~0_amd64.deb >> However, I don't know if theses packages can be used wuth stretch > > There is no need to install that package in Stretch. The issue that > that package is fixing is due to the pause implementation meant to work > around the very issue he is having. That pause implementation wasn't in > Stretch, it's only in Buster. > > The pause implementation requires a Linux kernel change, so that won't > be backported to Stretch unfortunately. > >> Caveat: I can't provide help to remove pulseaudio (which I generally do not recommend) > > In Stretch, there is no real choice: unless configuring dmix, having > pulseaudio installed necessarily means conflicts between the espeakup > daemon and Orca. > > In Buster, it's not a solution, since the version of firefox there > requires pulseaudio. Thus the pause implementation in espeakup, to > make it release the sound board for Orca to take it. Conversely, when > switching off from the X session to the Linux console, we'd need to make > Orca release the sound board. It actually happens already when switching > to a Linux console where the user is not logged in, because pulseaudio > releases the sound board in that case. > > Now, as you mentioned, Slint does not have the issue, because it uses > the dmix plugin. Now, to repeat myself: > > - it would be useful to document how to configure dmix on the wiki > https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility > > - enabling dmix by default in Debian could be an option, it "just" needs > to be discussed with the alsa maintainers. If nobody takes the time to > do this, we'll stay with the issue. > > Samuel > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John G Heim @ ` Zachary Kline ` Samuel Thibault ` Janina Sajka 2 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Zachary Kline @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: jheim, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I thought that Dmix was configured automatically in most recent versions of Alsa. The problem seems to specifically lie between espeakup and PUlseaudio, as far as I can tell. > On Nov 20, 2018, at 8:13 AM, John G Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> wrote: > > I found a vague howto on getting dmix to work but it says that if you use dmix, you have to configure each sound app to use it. Is that right? It seems more trouble than it is worth. > > Is this problem part of the kernel-space vs user-space problem? I would settle for getting speech during start up. I can probably put something in the X11 configuration to disable espeakup once the GUI starts up. But I am wondering if there is a path forward on this. > > future. > > > > > On 11/19/18 3:21 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: >> Hello, >>> On 19/11/2018 21:19, John G Heim wrote: >>>> What is the trick to getting speakup with software speech and orca to work at the same time. I have both debian stretch and ubuntu bionic systems and on both machines, I have to disable espeakup to get orca to work. >> Didier Spaier, le lun. 19 nov. 2018 21:59:28 +0100, a ecrit: >>> That's a long standing issue with Debian and derivatives' handling of audio cf. the Debian accessibility mailing list: >>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/ >>> And especially the thread that begins with this message: >>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html >>> >>> I tried to help on that, to no avail. >>> >>> Workarounds that I know as of today: >>> 1) Remove pulseaudio and install the libspeakup-ng Debian package patched by Samuel: >>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/11/msg00065.html >>> Instructions: >>> https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/sid-tmp/libespeak-ng1_1.49.2+dfsg-7~0_amd64.deb >>> However, I don't know if theses packages can be used wuth stretch >> There is no need to install that package in Stretch. The issue that >> that package is fixing is due to the pause implementation meant to work >> around the very issue he is having. That pause implementation wasn't in >> Stretch, it's only in Buster. >> The pause implementation requires a Linux kernel change, so that won't >> be backported to Stretch unfortunately. >>> Caveat: I can't provide help to remove pulseaudio (which I generally do not recommend) >> In Stretch, there is no real choice: unless configuring dmix, having >> pulseaudio installed necessarily means conflicts between the espeakup >> daemon and Orca. >> In Buster, it's not a solution, since the version of firefox there >> requires pulseaudio. Thus the pause implementation in espeakup, to >> make it release the sound board for Orca to take it. Conversely, when >> switching off from the X session to the Linux console, we'd need to make >> Orca release the sound board. It actually happens already when switching >> to a Linux console where the user is not logged in, because pulseaudio >> releases the sound board in that case. >> Now, as you mentioned, Slint does not have the issue, because it uses >> the dmix plugin. Now, to repeat myself: >> - it would be useful to document how to configure dmix on the wiki >> https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility >> - enabling dmix by default in Debian could be an option, it "just" needs >> to be discussed with the alsa maintainers. If nobody takes the time to >> do this, we'll stay with the issue. >> Samuel > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John G Heim ` Zachary Kline @ ` Samuel Thibault ` Janina Sajka 2 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: jheim, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. John G Heim, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 10:13:46 -0600, a ecrit: > I found a vague howto on getting dmix to work but it says that if you use > dmix, you have to configure each sound app to use it. Is that right? No, you can configure it globally. > Is this problem part of the kernel-space vs user-space problem? No, it's espeakup, i.e. a userland daemon which accesses the sound board. > I would settle for getting speech during start up. I can probably put > something in the X11 configuration to disable espeakup once the GUI > starts up. But I am wondering if there is a path forward on this. The path forward was implemented in time for Buster: espeakup shuts itself down when switching to graphical mode. Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John G Heim ` Zachary Kline ` Samuel Thibault @ ` Janina Sajka 2 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I believe it's for each device, not each app. Note that you will have multiple devices on a given card, e.g. hdmi and analog. There are a lot of poorly written docs out there. John G Heim writes: > I found a vague howto on getting dmix to work but it says that if you use > dmix, you have to configure each sound app to use it. Is that right? It > seems more trouble than it is worth. > > Is this problem part of the kernel-space vs user-space problem? I would > settle for getting speech during start up. I can probably put something in > the X11 configuration to disable espeakup once the GUI starts up. But I am > wondering if there is a path forward on this. > > future. > > > > > On 11/19/18 3:21 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > Hello, > > > > > On 19/11/2018 21:19, John G Heim wrote: > > > > What is the trick to getting speakup with software speech and orca to work at the same time. I have both debian stretch and ubuntu bionic systems and on both machines, I have to disable espeakup to get orca to work. > > > > Didier Spaier, le lun. 19 nov. 2018 21:59:28 +0100, a ecrit: > > > That's a long standing issue with Debian and derivatives' handling of audio cf. the Debian accessibility mailing list: > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/ > > > And especially the thread that begins with this message: > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/10/msg00000.html > > > > > > I tried to help on that, to no avail. > > > > > > Workarounds that I know as of today: > > > 1) Remove pulseaudio and install the libspeakup-ng Debian package patched by Samuel: > > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2018/11/msg00065.html > > > Instructions: > > > https://people.debian.org/~sthibault/tmp/sid-tmp/libespeak-ng1_1.49.2+dfsg-7~0_amd64.deb > > > However, I don't know if theses packages can be used wuth stretch > > > > There is no need to install that package in Stretch. The issue that > > that package is fixing is due to the pause implementation meant to work > > around the very issue he is having. That pause implementation wasn't in > > Stretch, it's only in Buster. > > > > The pause implementation requires a Linux kernel change, so that won't > > be backported to Stretch unfortunately. > > > > > Caveat: I can't provide help to remove pulseaudio (which I generally do not recommend) > > > > In Stretch, there is no real choice: unless configuring dmix, having > > pulseaudio installed necessarily means conflicts between the espeakup > > daemon and Orca. > > > > In Buster, it's not a solution, since the version of firefox there > > requires pulseaudio. Thus the pause implementation in espeakup, to > > make it release the sound board for Orca to take it. Conversely, when > > switching off from the X session to the Linux console, we'd need to make > > Orca release the sound board. It actually happens already when switching > > to a Linux console where the user is not logged in, because pulseaudio > > releases the sound board in that case. > > > > Now, as you mentioned, Slint does not have the issue, because it uses > > the dmix plugin. Now, to repeat myself: > > > > - it would be useful to document how to configure dmix on the wiki > > https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility > > > > - enabling dmix by default in Debian could be an option, it "just" needs > > to be discussed with the alsa maintainers. If nobody takes the time to > > do this, we'll stay with the issue. > > > > Samuel > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together John G Heim ` Didier Spaier @ ` Janina Sajka ` Samuel Thibault 1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: jheim, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Pulseaudio is supposed to eliminate this problem, but I've never been able to rely on pulseaudio working for me. Under alsa both espeakup and speech-dispatcher are likely unable to share the same hardware device. This is usually the case for me, requiring I send the output of each to a different device. Check carefully with a command like: aplay -l |grep card You're looking for cards that are labeled "analog." On one of my laptops I have both hw:0,0 and hw0,2 labeled analog. I simply set speech-dispatcher to use hw:0,2 in /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf and all works as expected. Janina John G Heim writes: > What is the trick to getting speakup with software speech and orca to work > at the same time. I have both debian stretch and ubuntu bionic systems and > on both machines, I have to disable espeakup to get orca to work. If I > disable espeakup via the command, "systemctl disable espeakup" and reboot, > orca works as normal. If I re-enable espeakup via, "systemctl enable > espeakup", then I get no speech on the login screen or after I log in. After > I log in, even playing sounds via aplay does not work. > > I have a vague memory of having to recompile espeakup or something to get > that to work. > > > > -- > -- > John G. Heim; jheim@math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Janina Sajka @ ` Samuel Thibault ` John G Heim ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Janina Sajka, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 10:31:03 -0500, a ecrit: > Pulseaudio is supposed to eliminate this problem, If espeakup was running as the same user as the one who is logged in, yes. But it'd mean you wouldn't have screen reading before logging in. > Under alsa both espeakup and speech-dispatcher are likely unable to > share the same hardware device. Indeed, unless enabling the dmix plugin. Using different sound boards is another solution indeed. Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Samuel Thibault @ ` John G Heim ` Gregory Nowak ` (2 more replies) ` Janina Sajka 1 sibling, 3 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: John G Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Samuel Thibault, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? On 11/20/18 1:11 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Janina Sajka, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 10:31:03 -0500, a ecrit: >> Pulseaudio is supposed to eliminate this problem, > > If espeakup was running as the same user as the one who is logged in, > yes. But it'd mean you wouldn't have screen reading before logging in. > >> Under alsa both espeakup and speech-dispatcher are likely unable to >> share the same hardware device. > > Indeed, unless enabling the dmix plugin. > > Using different sound boards is another solution indeed. > > Samuel > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John G Heim @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Jude DaShiell ` Tom Fowle ` Samuel Thibault ` Janina Sajka 2 siblings, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: jheim, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I remember there used to be a way to use the pc speaker as a sound card. I seem to recall it was a kernel driver, but it could have been through alsa itself. A quick web search gives me a linux journal article from 1997, but nothing besides that. So, short of checking the config choices for a modern 4.x kernel, I don't know if this is still an option. Even if it is still an option, I suspect the speech wouldn't be very intelligible. Greg On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 03:49:10PM -0600, John G Heim wrote: > Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Jude DaShiell ` Janina Sajka ` Tom Fowle 1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Jude DaShiell @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux., jheim thinkpenguin.com sells sound cards that plug into usb slots and you plug speakers into the other end of the card. On my system I have only one analog card. Since I bought one of these usb cards I think I'll plug it in and see if my system suddenly finds a second analog card. On Tue, 20 Nov 2018, Gregory Nowak wrote: > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 18:17:36 > From: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net> > Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. > <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > To: jheim@math.wisc.edu, > Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > Subject: Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together > > I remember there used to be a way to use the pc speaker as a sound > card. I seem to recall it was a kernel driver, but it could have been > through alsa itself. A quick web search gives me a linux journal > article from 1997, but nothing besides that. So, short of checking the > config choices for a modern 4.x kernel, I don't know if this is still > an option. Even if it is still an option, I suspect the speech > wouldn't be very intelligible. > > Greg > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 03:49:10PM -0600, John G Heim wrote: > > Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? > > > -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Jude DaShiell @ ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I routinely have two USB sound cards on my desktop, plus an old AV-710 based PCI card, plus an RME Hammerfall. And, yes, I use them all in particular ways. Decent USB sound cards, with sufficient quality for good sounding speech, can be had cheap. Janina Jude DaShiell writes: > thinkpenguin.com sells sound cards that plug into usb slots and you plug > speakers into the other end of the card. On my system I have only one > analog card. Since I bought one of these usb cards I think I'll plug it > in and see if my system suddenly finds a second analog card. > > On Tue, 20 Nov 2018, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 18:17:36 > > From: Gregory Nowak <greg@gregn.net> > > Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. > > <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > > To: jheim@math.wisc.edu, > > Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > > Subject: Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together > > > > I remember there used to be a way to use the pc speaker as a sound > > card. I seem to recall it was a kernel driver, but it could have been > > through alsa itself. A quick web search gives me a linux journal > > article from 1997, but nothing besides that. So, short of checking the > > config choices for a modern 4.x kernel, I don't know if this is still > > an option. Even if it is still an option, I suspect the speech > > wouldn't be very intelligible. > > > > Greg > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 03:49:10PM -0600, John G Heim wrote: > > > Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Gregory Nowak ` Jude DaShiell @ ` Tom Fowle ` John G Heim 1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Tom Fowle @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Since the PC speaker is driven from one bit with no smoothing or filtering, the results would probably be nothing short of ghastly. I seem to recall an experimental dos TTS that tried it with expected results. Tom Fowle On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 04:17:36PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: > I remember there used to be a way to use the pc speaker as a sound > card. I seem to recall it was a kernel driver, but it could have been > through alsa itself. A quick web search gives me a linux journal > article from 1997, but nothing besides that. So, short of checking the > config choices for a modern 4.x kernel, I don't know if this is still > an option. Even if it is still an option, I suspect the speech > wouldn't be very intelligible. > > Greg > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 03:49:10PM -0600, John G Heim wrote: > > Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? > > > -- > web site: http://www.gregn.net > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc > skype: gregn1 > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. > > -- > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Tom Fowle @ ` John G Heim ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: John G Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Nah, it would be fine for emergencies. For example, suppose your GUI interface freezes, orca dies or at least stops responding. You would still be able to get to a character console and start killing processes. Another thing would be that you could have speakup read boot messages via the PC speaker so at least you'd know it is booting. On 11/20/18 10:32 PM, Tom Fowle wrote: > Since the PC speaker is driven from one bit with no smoothing or filtering, > the results would probably be nothing short of ghastly. > > I seem to recall an experimental dos TTS that tried it with expected > results. > Tom Fowle > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 04:17:36PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: >> I remember there used to be a way to use the pc speaker as a sound >> card. I seem to recall it was a kernel driver, but it could have been >> through alsa itself. A quick web search gives me a linux journal >> article from 1997, but nothing besides that. So, short of checking the >> config choices for a modern 4.x kernel, I don't know if this is still >> an option. Even if it is still an option, I suspect the speech >> wouldn't be very intelligible. >> >> Greg >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 03:49:10PM -0600, John G Heim wrote: >>> Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? >> >> >> -- >> web site: http://www.gregn.net >> gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc >> skype: gregn1 >> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) >> If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. >> >> -- >> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John G Heim @ ` Janina Sajka 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: jheim, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Well, another way to get similar results is to launch the gui by hand, not via systemd. Long live startx. The more things you start automagically, the more things there are that can, and eventually will go awry. Why ask for more trouble? The brilliance of Speakup is that it can be available to work even when the boot fails. But, if you're starting the gui automatically, and it fails, you have much less recourse. Years ago I discovered the wisdom of this approach. I'd plug my laptop into some hotel's ethernet, only to have my boot fail over some gui based message about accessing their network. I discovered I could put myself back in control by booting to a console login and then dealing with bringing up the network. Janina John G Heim writes: > Nah, it would be fine for emergencies. For example, suppose your GUI > interface freezes, orca dies or at least stops responding. You would still > be able to get to a character console and start killing processes. > > Another thing would be that you could have speakup read boot messages via > the PC speaker so at least you'd know it is booting. > > > On 11/20/18 10:32 PM, Tom Fowle wrote: > > Since the PC speaker is driven from one bit with no smoothing or filtering, > > the results would probably be nothing short of ghastly. > > > > I seem to recall an experimental dos TTS that tried it with expected > > results. > > Tom Fowle > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 04:17:36PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: > > > I remember there used to be a way to use the pc speaker as a sound > > > card. I seem to recall it was a kernel driver, but it could have been > > > through alsa itself. A quick web search gives me a linux journal > > > article from 1997, but nothing besides that. So, short of checking the > > > config choices for a modern 4.x kernel, I don't know if this is still > > > an option. Even if it is still an option, I suspect the speech > > > wouldn't be very intelligible. > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 03:49:10PM -0600, John G Heim wrote: > > > > Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > web site: http://www.gregn.net > > > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc > > > skype: gregn1 > > > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) > > > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. > > > > > > -- > > > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John G Heim ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Samuel Thibault ` John Covici ` Janina Sajka 2 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: John G Heim; +Cc: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. John G Heim, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 15:49:10 -0600, a ecrit: > Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? As a matter of fact: yes. You can use the snd-pcsp Linux kernel module, which makes a sound board out of the PC speaker. You will need to unload the pcspkr module to be able to load the snd-pcsp module. Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Samuel Thibault @ ` John Covici ` Samuel Thibault 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: John Covici @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. How about using speech dispatcher for speakup? Would that make things work better together since orca also uses speech dispatcher? On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 18:42:06 -0500, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > John G Heim, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 15:49:10 -0600, a ecrit: > > Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? > > As a matter of fact: yes. You can use the snd-pcsp Linux kernel module, > which makes a sound board out of the PC speaker. You will need > to unload the pcspkr module to be able to load the snd-pcsp module. > > Samuel > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una covici@ccs.covici.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John Covici @ ` Samuel Thibault ` John Covici 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: covici, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. John Covici, le mer. 21 nov. 2018 10:05:37 -0500, a ecrit: > How about using speech dispatcher for speakup? Would that make things > work better together since orca also uses speech dispatcher? You'd have to run speech-dispatcher as a system service for both the root-run espeakup and the user-run orca to be able to use it. But then you can't play audio as user in your Xorg session since speech-dispatcher will keep the audio open as root. Samuel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Samuel Thibault @ ` John Covici 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: John Covici @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I run orca with speech dispatcher using Alsa and if I want to play audio, I enable spawn=yes in my /etc/pulse/client.conf. Maybe not the best solution, but its what I have come up with so far. On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 13:24:04 -0500, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > John Covici, le mer. 21 nov. 2018 10:05:37 -0500, a ecrit: > > How about using speech dispatcher for speakup? Would that make things > > work better together since orca also uses speech dispatcher? > > You'd have to run speech-dispatcher as a system service for both the > root-run espeakup and the user-run orca to be able to use it. > > But then you can't play audio as user in your Xorg session since > speech-dispatcher will keep the audio open as root. > > Samuel > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici wb2una covici@ccs.covici.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John G Heim ` Gregory Nowak ` Samuel Thibault @ ` Janina Sajka ` John G Heim 2 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup Man, those have become as rare as hen's teeth. And they're not about to make a resurgence. Furthermore, they tend to be buried in amongst all kinds of other hardware. Is that really how you would want to orient your speaking monitor? Deep in the bowels of some computer case? I know I want to go exactly the opposite way. I've my audio out running through a desktop Mackie mixer and usually talking through some quality desktop speakers. If I need, I can route to some serious JBL IONs. I'm contemplating adding Google Cast to my options. Janina John G Heim writes: > Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? > > > > On 11/20/18 1:11 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > > Janina Sajka, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 10:31:03 -0500, a ecrit: > > > Pulseaudio is supposed to eliminate this problem, > > > > If espeakup was running as the same user as the one who is logged in, > > yes. But it'd mean you wouldn't have screen reading before logging in. > > > > > Under alsa both espeakup and speech-dispatcher are likely unable to > > > share the same hardware device. > > > > Indeed, unless enabling the dmix plugin. > > > > Using different sound boards is another solution indeed. > > > > Samuel > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Janina Sajka @ ` John G Heim ` Jude DaShiell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: John G Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux., Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I don't think PC speakers are rare at all. I am responsible for over 100 desktops and every one of them has a PC speaker. Of course, they are all Dells. But even the machines I built myself for my own use with Asus mobos have PC speakers. I find it hard to believe there exist mobos that don't have a PC speaker connector. The machine might not have anything connected to it but the connector is there. It's like with serial ports. There are plenty of mobos available with serial port header blocks. You just have to buy a cable to get the DB9 port. You might have to buy a PC speaker if you're building your own machine. It's worth a couple of extra bucks to get a machine with a PC speaker because then you can configure a grub init tune. On 11/21/18 8:16 AM, Janina Sajka wrote: > Man, those have become as rare as hen's teeth. And they're not about to > make a resurgence. > > Furthermore, they tend to be buried in amongst all kinds of other > hardware. Is that really how you would want to orient your speaking monitor? > Deep in the bowels of some computer case? > > I know I want to go exactly the opposite way. I've my audio out running > through a desktop Mackie mixer and usually talking through some quality > desktop speakers. If I need, I can route to some serious JBL IONs. I'm > contemplating adding Google Cast to my options. > > Janina > > John G Heim writes: >> Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? >> >> >> >> On 11/20/18 1:11 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: >>> Janina Sajka, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 10:31:03 -0500, a ecrit: >>>> Pulseaudio is supposed to eliminate this problem, >>> >>> If espeakup was running as the same user as the one who is logged in, >>> yes. But it'd mean you wouldn't have screen reading before logging in. >>> >>>> Under alsa both espeakup and speech-dispatcher are likely unable to >>>> share the same hardware device. >>> >>> Indeed, unless enabling the dmix plugin. >>> >>> Using different sound boards is another solution indeed. >>> >>> Samuel >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` John G Heim @ ` Jude DaShiell 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Jude DaShiell @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: jheim, Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. If you get the right case, you can get something other than a 2 inch pc speaker too. On Wed, 21 Nov 2018, John G Heim wrote: > Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 09:52:06 > From: John G Heim <jheim@math.wisc.edu> > To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@linux-speakup.org>, > Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@linux-speakup.org> > Subject: Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together > > I don't think PC speakers are rare at all. I am responsible for over 100 > desktops and every one of them has a PC speaker. Of course, they are all > Dells. But even the machines I built myself for my own use with Asus mobos > have PC speakers. I find it hard to believe there exist mobos that don't have > a PC speaker connector. The machine might not have anything connected to it > but the connector is there. It's like with serial ports. There are plenty of > mobos available with serial port header blocks. You just have to buy a cable > to get the DB9 port. You might have to buy a PC speaker if you're building > your own machine. > > It's worth a couple of extra bucks to get a machine with a PC speaker because > then you can configure a grub init tune. > > On 11/21/18 8:16 AM, Janina Sajka wrote: > > Man, those have become as rare as hen's teeth. And they're not about to > > make a resurgence. > > > > Furthermore, they tend to be buried in amongst all kinds of other > > hardware. Is that really how you would want to orient your speaking monitor? > > Deep in the bowels of some computer case? > > > > I know I want to go exactly the opposite way. I've my audio out running > > through a desktop Mackie mixer and usually talking through some quality > > desktop speakers. If I need, I can route to some serious JBL IONs. I'm > > contemplating adding Google Cast to my options. > > > > Janina > > > > John G Heim writes: > >> Is there any way to get speakup to work through the PC speaker? > >> > >> > >> > >> On 11/20/18 1:11 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > >>> Janina Sajka, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 10:31:03 -0500, a ecrit: > >>>> Pulseaudio is supposed to eliminate this problem, > >>> > >>> If espeakup was running as the same user as the one who is logged in, > >>> yes. But it'd mean you wouldn't have screen reading before logging in. > >>> > >>>> Under alsa both espeakup and speech-dispatcher are likely unable to > >>>> share the same hardware device. > >>> > >>> Indeed, unless enabling the dmix plugin. > >>> > >>> Using different sound boards is another solution indeed. > >>> > >>> Samuel > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Speakup mailing list > >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org > >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together ` Samuel Thibault ` John G Heim @ ` Janina Sajka 1 sibling, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Janina Sajka @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi, Samuel: Samuel Thibault writes: > Janina Sajka, le mar. 20 nov. 2018 10:31:03 -0500, a ecrit: > > Pulseaudio is supposed to eliminate this problem, > > If espeakup was running as the same user as the one who is logged in, > yes. But it'd mean you wouldn't have screen reading before logging in. > I suppose I could try launching espeakup as my ordinary user, but I'm loathe to go through the hassle of putting pulseaudio back on this box just to test something. It's a pernicious app that can be hard to get rid of, and I never found it did anything useful for me on those occasions when I did have it working. Nowadays I'm rather starting espeakup via systemd. On those occasions when my system doesn't come up talking, I assume I'm being asked for root password to perform system maintanance. Fortunately, I still get a beep on backspace to confirm this once I give the root passwd. At that point I can: modprobe speakup_soft; espeakup After dealing with the problem, usually an e2fsck as I have a failing drive, a ctrl-d takes me to login. In this situation, I guess espeakup is running as root? > > Under alsa both espeakup and speech-dispatcher are likely unable to > > share the same hardware device. > > Indeed, unless enabling the dmix plugin. > Even then I have had mixed results. Occasionally, it has worked for me, but not always. Most importantly, it doesn't seem to continue functioning as time goes on and regular package updates across the system are applied. > Using different sound boards is another solution indeed. > The benefit of this approach is that you can rely on it. You can take it to the bank. Frankly, I think those of us who rely on Speakup should be more careful buying new hardware. I know I will ask more questions before my next laptop or main board purchase. I will want to know more about the builtin audio device. It was a revelation to me on my old Thinkpad to see two analog devices available on hw:0. That was the neatest solution yet. Unfortunately, I used that machine for years having never looked at that detail. Janina > Samuel > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
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getting orca and espeakup/speakup to work together John G Heim
` Didier Spaier
` Samuel Thibault
` John G Heim
` Zachary Kline
` Samuel Thibault
` Janina Sajka
` Janina Sajka
` Samuel Thibault
` John G Heim
` Gregory Nowak
` Jude DaShiell
` Janina Sajka
` Tom Fowle
` John G Heim
` Janina Sajka
` Samuel Thibault
` John Covici
` Samuel Thibault
` John Covici
` Janina Sajka
` John G Heim
` Jude DaShiell
` Janina Sajka
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