Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Erik Heil]

Hello all.  "Recently upgraded to 2.6.26 on Debian Sid here and installed
the appropriate speakup-modules package.  Did a modprobe speakup_dectlk
module but do not get any speech from the Dectalk Express.  Looking in
/sys/module/speakup/init_status or something, I can see that the module is
indeed alive.  So what gives?
Thanks for all the help.  This machine does have a working sound card but
no speakers.  Luckily I do have Brltty and other boxes, so it is
accessible via SSH at the moneht.



eheil@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209]

Hi,

      Are you sure that it's completely dead?  On Fedora, I'm seeing 
extreme sluggishness.  Maybe three seconds after pressing a key.  For me, 
it seems to be a bad interaction with the fix that causes the serial ports 
to always come up the same (the floating serial port fix), and haldaemon. 
Can you try disabling HAL to see if it's fixed.  If this can be reproduced 
on Debian, I'm confident that the Speakup team will do what's necessary to 
get it fixed.

           HTH.


-- 
           Bill in Denver

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Erik Heil wrote:

> Hello all.  "Recently upgraded to 2.6.26 on Debian Sid here and installed
> the appropriate speakup-modules package.  Did a modprobe speakup_dectlk
> module but do not get any speech from the Dectalk Express.  Looking in
> /sys/module/speakup/init_status or something, I can see that the module is
> indeed alive.  So what gives?
> Thanks for all the help.  This machine does have a working sound card but
> no speakers.  Luckily I do have Brltty and other boxes, so it is
> accessible via SSH at the moneht.
>
>
>
> eheil@sdf.lonestar.org
> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Erik Heil]

Hi,
I've tested with the module without hal-daemon.  Here though, its
completely dead.  We need to figure out exactly what's going on here.  Is
their any way to get some debugging information?  If we had this, I could
probably look into this further.  I believe what is happening here is
related to serial port initialization, however we won't know untill we get
some debugging information.

--Erik

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209 wrote:

> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:50:09 -0600 (MDT)
> From: William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209 <wacker@octothorp.org>
> Reply-To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
>     <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Subject: Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid
>
> Hi,
>
>      Are you sure that it's completely dead?  On Fedora, I'm seeing extreme
> sluggishness.  Maybe three seconds after pressing a key.  For me, it seems to
> be a bad interaction with the fix that causes the serial ports to always come
> up the same (the floating serial port fix), and haldaemon. Can you try
> disabling HAL to see if it's fixed.  If this can be reproduced on Debian, I'm
> confident that the Speakup team will do what's necessary to get it fixed.
>
>           HTH.
>
>
> --
>           Bill in Denver
>
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Erik Heil wrote:
>
> > Hello all.  "Recently upgraded to 2.6.26 on Debian Sid here and installed
> > the appropriate speakup-modules package.  Did a modprobe speakup_dectlk
> > module but do not get any speech from the Dectalk Express.  Looking in
> > /sys/module/speakup/init_status or something, I can see that the module is
> > indeed alive.  So what gives?
> > Thanks for all the help.  This machine does have a working sound card but
> > no speakers.  Luckily I do have Brltty and other boxes, so it is
> > accessible via SSH at the moneht.
> >
> >
> >
> > eheil@sdf.lonestar.org
> > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

eheil@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Erik,

can you please confirm whether the problems you're seeing match what
has been described at:

http://www.sysresccd.org/Speakup-info#Speakup_Errata_in_SystemRescueCD_1.1.0

The gentleman that reported this problem hasn't given us an update on
the issue in sysresccd 1.1.1 beta, and I don't have a dectalk express
to test with. If you can confirm that the problem is in fact the same
one, then we'll know that this is a speakup issue, rather than a
sysresccd issue. As of now, the problem report we have at the above
url suggests that this could be a problem with either sysresccd, or
speakup. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

Greg


On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 04:12:23PM -0400, Erik Heil wrote:
> Hi,
> I've tested with the module without hal-daemon.  Here though, its
> completely dead.  We need to figure out exactly what's going on here.  Is
> their any way to get some debugging information?  If we had this, I could
> probably look into this further.  I believe what is happening here is
> related to serial port initialization, however we won't know untill we get
> some debugging information.
> 
> --Erik


- -- 
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkjemYYACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyDYEACgx+T+7YBHGW4POd5rPOaS6S7y
qYgAmQHX8fXRgkB+wn8bSyZBwshQsWPB
=v7uf
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Tony Baechler]

Gregory Nowak wrote:
> can you please confirm whether the problems you're seeing match what
> has been described at:
>
> http://www.sysresccd.org/Speakup-info#Speakup_Errata_in_SystemRescueCD_1.1.0
>
> The gentleman that reported this problem hasn't given us an update on
> the issue in sysresccd 1.1.1 beta, and I don't have a dectalk express
> to test with. If you can confirm that the problem is in fact the same
> one, then we'll know that this is a speakup issue, rather than a
> sysresccd issue. As of now, the problem report we have at the above
> url suggests that this could be a problem with either sysresccd, or
> speakup. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.
>   



Hi,

I didn't look at the above url, but I do use a DEC Express and I did 
burn and test the 1.1 beta 20 CD, at least I think it was beta 20.  I 
had no problem with getting speech to work, but there was definitely 
sluggish behavior when using the screen review keys.  I'm guessing that 
there was a delay of about a second from when I hit a key to when I got 
speech.  I don't have that problem with Debian using various kernels on 
different machines.  On the other hand, I had the same behavior with a 
Doubletalk LT and the same System Rescue CD, so I think it's a problem 
with the CD itself.  I also had no problem with grml 1.1rc1 using both 
synths on different processors, although software speech abruptly 
stopped on a machine I was using.  On Debian, I am using my custom 
2.6.24 kernel and the 2.6.25-2-686 kernel package.  I haven't upgraded 
to 2.6.26 yet.  With the Shane Etch CD using 2.6.18, I also noticed a 
slight delay in getting speech feedback but I figured that was because I 
was running from CD.

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 03:31:43AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I didn't look at the above url, but I do use a DEC Express and I did  
> burn and test the 1.1 beta 20 CD, at least I think it was beta 20.  I  
> had no problem with getting speech to work, but there was definitely  
> sluggish behavior when using the screen review keys.  I'm guessing that  
> there was a delay of about a second from when I hit a key to when I got  
> speech.  I don't have that problem with Debian using various kernels on  
> different machines.

Hmmm, ok, guess it's a sysresccd bug in that case then. Yes, the
report we have matches what you describe. The report we have states
however that everything is fine, until shortly after entering runlevel
3, which is when the sluggish behavior starts, but those are all the
details we have, and we'd need to know exactly when after entering
runlevel 3 this starts to happen, so we can try to figure out what is
causing the problem. Would you be willing to help debug this?

> On the other hand, I had the same behavior with a  
> Doubletalk LT and the same System Rescue CD, so I think it's a problem  
> with the CD itself.  I also had no problem with grml 1.1rc1 using both  
> synths on different processors, although software speech abruptly  
> stopped on a machine I was using.  On Debian, I am using my custom  
> 2.6.24 kernel and the 2.6.25-2-686 kernel package.  I haven't upgraded  
> to 2.6.26 yet.  With the Shane Etch CD using 2.6.18, I also noticed a  
> slight delay in getting speech feedback but I figured that was because I  
> was running from CD.

Ok, I tested with a doubletalk pc, and a bns, and didn't see this
issue with either synth under 1.1.0, and the 1.1.1 betas. Looks like
the problem is with more synths than just the dectalk in that case,
but I certainly haven't been able to reproduce it here with the
hardware I have to work with. Do you mind if I add the info you
provided to the speakup-info page, so we have a wider documentation of
the issue?

Greg


- -- 
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkjf0ioACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyCzIgCfShIttoJvFOm0w8lq+rHSVHex
H+gAn1vLUxNuq2dY3JWtSdvx1ctR7b6H
=F3uT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 03:31:43AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> I didn't look at the above url, but I do use a DEC Express and I did  
> burn and test the 1.1 beta 20 CD, at least I think it was beta 20.

I just reread your post, and noticed the above statement, can you
please clarify? Did you mean to say 1.1.0 beta 20? If so, then can you
please test again with the latest beta of 1.1.1, and see if you still
have this issue with both synths? The latest beta of 1.1.1 is beta4,
as I type this. Thanks.

Greg


- -- 
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkjf084ACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyAOHgCgyMNkRYEtxKso9DOGBiGcLUSF
bFEAoKzIHjDAtUCOYSSTjb7VBFrTNoib
=QtkP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Tony Baechler]

Gregory Nowak wrote:

I wrote:

>> I  
>> had no problem with getting speech to work, but there was definitely  
>> sluggish behavior when using the screen review keys.  I'm guessing that  
>> there was a delay of about a second from when I hit a key to when I got  
>> speech.  I don't have that problem with Debian using various kernels on  
>> different machines.
>>     
>
>   
I would like to add that it's not just Speakup keys, it's all speech.  
If I just hit Enter with no command, there is still the same delay 
before I hear the prompt repeated.  Also, one very annoying thing that 
zsh does is repeat the first key back to me, so "ls" becomes "lls" etc.  
I don't recall a delay with key echo but I didn't spend a lot of time 
with it.

> Hmmm, ok, guess it's a sysresccd bug in that case then. Yes, the
> report we have matches what you describe. The report we have states
> however that everything is fine, until shortly after entering runlevel
> 3, which is when the sluggish behavior starts, but those are all the
> details we have, and we'd need to know exactly when after entering
> runlevel 3 this starts to happen, so we can try to figure out what is
> causing the problem. Would you be willing to help debug this?
>
>   
OK but how?  The Speakup info page tells me to use quiet=1 because 
speech starts before keyboard support.  Therefore, by the time I hit a 
key and hear speech, it's well into the boot process.  I could turn off 
quiet mode but I understand speech won't shut up until some time later 
when keyboard support is activated.  That's why I can't be more clear on 
where the problem starts, I was following the instructions on the info page.

> Ok, I tested with a doubletalk pc, and a bns, and didn't see this
> issue with either synth under 1.1.0, and the 1.1.1 betas. Looks like
> the problem is with more synths than just the dectalk in that case,
> but I certainly haven't been able to reproduce it here with the
> hardware I have to work with. Do you mind if I add the info you
> provided to the speakup-info page, so we have a wider documentation of
> the issue?
>   



OK, my apologies.  I got my CDs mixed up.  I haven't tried the System 
Rescue CD with the Doubletalk LT.  That was the grml CD that had a 
slight delay but I think that's in the Doubletalk firmware.  I forgot 
that I hadn't tried the rescue CD.  I can try it if it would help.  
Also, not that it matters, but the machine with my DEC Express only has 
256 MB of RAM and is a fairly slow processor.  I don't have a problem on 
the same machine with the same synth in Debian or grml though.

I have no objection to putting my posts on other web sites etc.  I do 
appreciate being told though, so thanks for asking.  In regards to 
licensing, I prefer the BSD license but I'm not going to make an issue 
about it.  I'm not planning on enforcing any legal rights regarding my 
posts anyway since they're already in a public archive.  I realize that 
I'm far from perfect and want people to have the right to correct my 
mistakes if they have better or more correct information.  Again, thanks 
for asking first.

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Tony Baechler]

Gregory Nowak wrote:
> I just reread your post, and noticed the above statement, can you
> please clarify? Did you mean to say 1.1.0 beta 20? If so, then can you
> please test again with the latest beta of 1.1.1, and see if you still
> have this issue with both synths? The latest beta of 1.1.1 is beta4,
> as I type this. Thanks.
>   



Hi,

See what I mean about me making mistakes? <grin> Yes, I think it was 
1.1.0. It was from your post announcing that Speakup was back in beta 
14. By the time I downloaded and burned, I think it was beta 20. I 
didn't know 1.1.1 was out. Yes, I could try that but it might take time 
to download and burn. It was long past beta 14 when I downloaded last 
time. Oops, sorry!

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 02:52:25AM -0700, Tony Baechler wrote:
> I would like to add that it's not just Speakup keys, it's all speech.   
> If I just hit Enter with no command, there is still the same delay  
> before I hear the prompt repeated.

Hmmm, interesting, ok.

> Also, one very annoying thing that  
> zsh does is repeat the first key back to me, so "ls" becomes "lls" etc.   

This is a zsh issue, and shows up on every livecd with zsh that I've
used so far, so it's not a sysresccd problem.

> OK but how?  The Speakup info page tells me to use quiet=1 because  
> speech starts before keyboard support.  Therefore, by the time I hit a  
> key and hear speech, it's well into the boot process.  I could turn off  
> quiet mode but I understand speech won't shut up until some time later  
> when keyboard support is activated.  That's why I can't be more clear on  
> where the problem starts, I was following the instructions on the info 
> page.

As the speakup-info page states, those instructions are true only when
using sysresccd 0.3.7, they don't apply to sysresccd 1.1.x and later.

> OK, my apologies.  I got my CDs mixed up.  I haven't tried the System  
> Rescue CD with the Doubletalk LT.  That was the grml CD that had a  
> slight delay but I think that's in the Doubletalk firmware.  I forgot  
> that I hadn't tried the rescue CD.  I can try it if it would help.   

We aren't aware of problems when using the doubletalk lt. However, the
more software is tested under different conditions, the better for the
user base. So, if you'd like to test with it, and report on whatever
you find or don't find, you are certainly welcome to do so.

> Also, not that it matters, but the machine with my DEC Express only has  
> 256 MB of RAM and is a fairly slow processor.  I don't have a problem on  
> the same machine with the same synth in Debian or grml though.

I don't see how that could matter, so you're probably right that it doesn't.

>
> I have no objection to putting my posts on other web sites etc.  I do  
> appreciate being told though, so thanks for asking.  In regards to  
> licensing, I prefer the BSD license but I'm not going to make an issue  
> about it.  I'm not planning on enforcing any legal rights regarding my  
> posts anyway since they're already in a public archive.  I realize that  
> I'm far from perfect and want people to have the right to correct my  
> mistakes if they have better or more correct information.  Again, thanks  
> for asking first.

Well, I'm not going to add anything to the speakup-info page, until we
know if this problem exists in 1.1.1 beta or not, and until we know if
the doubletalk lt is effected or not. I will let you know privately if
I do post any of your comments though, and thanks for agreeing to
it.

Greg


- -- 
web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
skype: gregn1
(authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)

- --
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkjhK1IACgkQ7s9z/XlyUyAttQCgm2B331DPpu9PeFbMhXR2wo/x
9o8An24qMn95bD0ubXoi/AODn55+0efb
=4A8+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[Tyler Spivey]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

running "setopt singlelinezle" should make the double speaking of the first
character disappear. I've been using zsh for a while now, and haven't had any issues after doing that.
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 12:24:03PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > Also, one very annoying thing that  
> > zsh does is repeat the first key back to me, so "ls" becomes "lls" etc.   
> 
> This is a zsh issue, and shows up on every livecd with zsh that I've
> used so far, so it's not a sysresccd problem.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAkjhPc0ACgkQTsjaYASMWKQRewCfWidwoyaO3uuXW/tEDr8ObbSz
nPAAniqmm4pDvizHJcK/PK1IVyi0f/df
=KZuy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: Speakup_dectlk module under 2.6.26-1-686 on Debian Sid

[luke]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> > zsh does is repeat the first key back to me, so "ls" becomes "lls" etc.   
> 
> This is a zsh issue, and shows up on every livecd with zsh that I've
> used so far, so it's not a sysresccd problem.

The first thing I do upon booting SysResCD, is to run "exec bash".  Gets 
zsh out of the way in a hurry.

Luke