Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[Alex Snow]

Hi,
Was just given the task of cloning several machines from a master that I 
installed.  THe master has both Windows XP and Ubuntu 8.04 installed.  
What's the best way to make an image of this drive so it can be copied 
to several other drives? I was thinking of just using DD, but is there 
any faster way? partimage looked interesting, but it looked like a pain 
to clone an entire disk (doing it one partition at a time, then losing 
the MBR from the original drive).
Also looked at clonezilla which looked somewhat promising (it uses a 
console interface so could have speakup integrated into it), but I was 
unable to find any source (or even a copy of the kernel config so I 
could recompile)
Any advice would be greatly apreciated.

-- 
lp1 on fire
	-- One of the more obfuscated kernel messages

RE: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[Dawes, Stephen]

Try Ghost. I know that it is not a linux product. But it can image the
entire drive regardless of the partition formats. Ghost is around v12,
and it has a command line interface. So you can control all the
parameters you want to give it from the command line. Another advantage
to Ghost is that you can tell Ghost to store your image directly to a
network drive. 

HTH 
Steve Dawes
Phone: (403) 268-5527
Email: SDawes@calgary.ca



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Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[John covici]

I use acronis for this purpose -- unfortunately its under that other
operating system, but does work and although somewhat quirky is
accessible with WindowEyes.


on Tuesday 09/23/2008 Alex Snow(alex_snow@gmx.net) wrote
 > Hi,
 > Was just given the task of cloning several machines from a master that I 
 > installed.  THe master has both Windows XP and Ubuntu 8.04 installed.  
 > What's the best way to make an image of this drive so it can be copied 
 > to several other drives? I was thinking of just using DD, but is there 
 > any faster way? partimage looked interesting, but it looked like a pain 
 > to clone an entire disk (doing it one partition at a time, then losing 
 > the MBR from the original drive).
 > Also looked at clonezilla which looked somewhat promising (it uses a 
 > console interface so could have speakup integrated into it), but I was 
 > unable to find any source (or even a copy of the kernel config so I 
 > could recompile)
 > Any advice would be greatly apreciated.
 > 
 > -- 
 > lp1 on fire
 > 	-- One of the more obfuscated kernel messages
 > _______________________________________________
 > Speakup mailing list
 > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[luke]

You should at least be able to dd the MBR:

dd if=/dev/sda of=mbr.file bs=512 count=1

Then, to write it back out:

dd if=mbr.file of=/dev/sdb

Caveat emptor

Luke


On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, Alex Snow wrote:

> Hi,
> Was just given the task of cloning several machines from a master that I 
> installed.  THe master has both Windows XP and Ubuntu 8.04 installed.  
> What's the best way to make an image of this drive so it can be copied 
> to several other drives? I was thinking of just using DD, but is there 
> any faster way? partimage looked interesting, but it looked like a pain 
> to clone an entire disk (doing it one partition at a time, then losing 
> the MBR from the original drive).
> Also looked at clonezilla which looked somewhat promising (it uses a 
> console interface so could have speakup integrated into it), but I was 
> unable to find any source (or even a copy of the kernel config so I 
> could recompile)
> Any advice would be greatly apreciated.
> 
> 

Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[Alex Snow]

Hi,
That's basicly what I ended up doing.  Making an image of the mbr 
using dd, and images of the individual partitions using partimage.  As 
a more long term solution I will probably look into adding speakup to 
Clonezilla, since it has some features I like like the ability to 
multicast kind of like Ghostcast.
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 04:07:38AM 
-0400, luke wrote:
> You should at least be able to dd the MBR:
> 
> dd if=/dev/sda of=mbr.file bs=512 count=1
> 
> Then, to write it back out:
> 
> dd if=mbr.file of=/dev/sdb
> 
> Caveat emptor
> 
> Luke
> 
> 
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, Alex Snow wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > Was just given the task of cloning several machines from a master that I 
> > installed.  THe master has both Windows XP and Ubuntu 8.04 installed.  
> > What's the best way to make an image of this drive so it can be copied 
> > to several other drives? I was thinking of just using DD, but is there 
> > any faster way? partimage looked interesting, but it looked like a pain 
> > to clone an entire disk (doing it one partition at a time, then losing 
> > the MBR from the original drive).
> > Also looked at clonezilla which looked somewhat promising (it uses a 
> > console interface so could have speakup integrated into it), but I was 
> > unable to find any source (or even a copy of the kernel config so I 
> > could recompile)
> > Any advice would be greatly apreciated.
> > 
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Seriously, the way I did this was by using a special /sbin/loader binary
with debugging hooks that I made ("dd" is your friend: binary editors
are for wimps).
	-- Linus Torvalds, in an article on a dnserver

Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[Tony Baechler]

Alex Snow wrote:
> What's the best way to make an image of this drive so it can be copied 
> to several other drives? I was thinking of just using DD, but is there 
> any faster way? partimage looked interesting, but it looked like a pain 
> to clone an entire disk (doing it one partition at a time, then losing 
> the MBR from the original drive).
>   


Hi,

Warning: The following are not free products.  If non-free software 
bothers you, stop reading now.

There is a suite from Terrabyte Unlimited called Image for DOS, Linux 
and Windows.  I can highly recommend IFD for accessibility.  It is best 
to make the initial image without speech, but it also has a command line 
interface.  It's possible to learn the keys to hit to start it with no 
speech.  I also recommend IFW.  I had problems getting a lock on C: 
because of Window-Eyes, but it's also totally accessible.  XP might not 
have that problem. I haven't used IFL but I know it's a console program 
and I wrote to the developers about integrating Speakup.  They said they 
were working on it but I don't know the status.  You have to burn a 
custom iso image with your product key and such, but you can run it 
directly from the server as well.  I'm not totally clear on that, maybe 
the iso image is optional.  You would need to read the install 
instructions.  Anyway, I would say that IFL or IFW are best.  Yes, they 
will image complete drives including all partitions and any OS.  They 
will restore to the same size drive that they were imaged from, so if 
you're restoring to a different size drive, keep this in mind.  All of 
them are purchase products with demos, but they are far cheaper than 
Ghost unless Ghost dropped in price recently.  Their web site it:

http://www.bootitng.com/

Look for the Image for DOS, Linux and Windows links.  If you try IFL, 
see if Speakup is included and let me know.  I am a happy user but 
otherwise have nothing to do with them.

Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[Janina Sajka]

I'm still a fan of dd for such tasks.

You mention speed, but I wonder why that should be an issue. Even if dd
is slow, are you actually doing so many disks over so many days, weeks,
and months that it really matters? Or, maybe you're worried about tyeing
up your only workstation? In wich case I'd just do it overnight.

Janina

Alex Snow writes:
> Hi,
> Was just given the task of cloning several machines from a master that I 
> installed.  THe master has both Windows XP and Ubuntu 8.04 installed.  
> What's the best way to make an image of this drive so it can be copied 
> to several other drives? I was thinking of just using DD, but is there 
> any faster way? partimage looked interesting, but it looked like a pain 
> to clone an entire disk (doing it one partition at a time, then losing 
> the MBR from the original drive).
> Also looked at clonezilla which looked somewhat promising (it uses a 
> console interface so could have speakup integrated into it), but I was 
> unable to find any source (or even a copy of the kernel config so I 
> could recompile)
> Any advice would be greatly apreciated.
> 
> -- 
> lp1 on fire
> 	-- One of the more obfuscated kernel messages
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.202.595.7777;	sip:janina@a11y.org
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com

Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[Alex Snow]

In this situation I have about 10 machines that are getting cloned 
from one master, with DD taking about an hour to do each machine.  The 
machines are all spare, so it's not a matter of tying up a 
workstation, but getting things done quickly.
On 
Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:47:10AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> I'm still a fan of dd for such tasks.
> 
> You mention speed, but I wonder why that should be an issue. Even if dd
> is slow, are you actually doing so many disks over so many days, weeks,
> and months that it really matters? Or, maybe you're worried about tyeing
> up your only workstation? In wich case I'd just do it overnight.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Alex Snow writes:
> > Hi,
> > Was just given the task of cloning several machines from a master that I 
> > installed.  THe master has both Windows XP and Ubuntu 8.04 installed.  
> > What's the best way to make an image of this drive so it can be copied 
> > to several other drives? I was thinking of just using DD, but is there 
> > any faster way? partimage looked interesting, but it looked like a pain 
> > to clone an entire disk (doing it one partition at a time, then losing 
> > the MBR from the original drive).
> > Also looked at clonezilla which looked somewhat promising (it uses a 
> > console interface so could have speakup integrated into it), but I was 
> > unable to find any source (or even a copy of the kernel config so I 
> > could recompile)
> > Any advice would be greatly apreciated.
> > 
> > -- 
> > lp1 on fire
> > 	-- One of the more obfuscated kernel messages
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.202.595.7777;	sip:janina@a11y.org
> Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com
> 
> Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
> Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com
> 
> Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
> Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Now, it we had this sort of thing:
  yield -a     for yield to all traffic
  yield -t     for yield to trucks
  yield -f     for yield to people walking (yield foot)
  yield -d t*  for yield on days starting with t

...you'd have a lot of dead people at intersections, and traffic jams you
wouldn't believe...
	-- Discussion on the intuitiveness of commands

Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[Gregory Nowak]

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Hash: SHA1

Another problem with using dd here is that it copies the entire
partition, even the unused data blocks. Partimage doesn't do this, it
just images the used partition space, and as far as I know, makes a
note internally in the image file on what the unused space is like, so
it can restore the partition back to how it was, without taking extra
time, and disk space on the drive where the image is being stored,
like dd does.

Greg


On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 03:18:12PM -0400, Alex Snow wrote:
> In this situation I have about 10 machines that are getting cloned 
> from one master, with DD taking about an hour to do each machine.  The 
> machines are all spare, so it's not a matter of tying up a 
> workstation, but getting things done quickly.


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Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[luke]

One potential problem with dd, is that there is no integrety checking.  I 
don't know if there is with partimage either, but with multiple gig 
drives, you may run into circumstances where that would be a good thing to 
have.

Luke

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I'm still a fan of dd for such tasks.
> 
> You mention speed, but I wonder why that should be an issue. Even if dd
> is slow, are you actually doing so many disks over so many days, weeks,
> and months that it really matters? Or, maybe you're worried about tyeing
> up your only workstation? In wich case I'd just do it overnight.
> 
> Janina
> 
> Alex Snow writes:
> > Hi,
> > Was just given the task of cloning several machines from a master that I 
> > installed.  THe master has both Windows XP and Ubuntu 8.04 installed.  
> > What's the best way to make an image of this drive so it can be copied 
> > to several other drives? I was thinking of just using DD, but is there 
> > any faster way? partimage looked interesting, but it looked like a pain 
> > to clone an entire disk (doing it one partition at a time, then losing 
> > the MBR from the original drive).
> > Also looked at clonezilla which looked somewhat promising (it uses a 
> > console interface so could have speakup integrated into it), but I was 
> > unable to find any source (or even a copy of the kernel config so I 
> > could recompile)
> > Any advice would be greatly apreciated.
> > 
> > -- 
> > lp1 on fire
> > 	-- One of the more obfuscated kernel messages
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[Gregory Nowak]

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Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 02:14:54AM -0400, luke wrote:
> One potential problem with dd, is that there is no integrety checking.  I 
> don't know if there is with partimage either, but with multiple gig 
> drives, you may run into circumstances where that would be a good thing to 
> have.

There's no integrity checking in partimage, at least in the sense I
think you're referring to. However, you could restore the backup with
the --simulate flag passed to partimage, which would cause it to
simulate restoring the backup. So far, I've never had an actual
restoration of a backup with partimage go bad, after having the
simulated restore go ok.

Greg


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Re: Somewhat OT: cloning hard disks

[luke]

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 02:14:54AM -0400, luke wrote:
> > One potential problem with dd, is that there is no integrity checking.  I 
> > don't know if there is with partimage either, but with multiple gig 
> > drives, you may run into circumstances where that would be a good thing to 
> > have.
> 
> There's no integrity checking in partimage, at least in the sense I
> think you're referring to. However, you could restore the backup with

I'm thinking of something like rsync's verification of transacted data 
routines.  When storing huge amounts of data, I wouldn't like to be 
without those, even though on a healthy drive the odds are rather slim that 
it would ever actually be necessary.

Luke