question on speakup-source debian package

question on speakup-source debian package

[Gregory Nowak]

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Hi all.

I was just looking at the docs that come with the speakup-source
debian package, and there is something I'm confused on.

Let's say for example, that I am running a 2.6.25.12 custom-built
kernel via kernel-package from the stock kernel.org sources, and that
I want to upgrade to a custom-built 2.6.26 kernel built via
kernel-package, again from stock kernel.org source. The way I
understand the module-assistant man page, I have to:

1. Build the 2.6.26 kernel package, and install it.
2. Reboot into the new 2.6.26 kernel.
3. Ssh into the newly booted machine.
4. Build the speakup modules from the speakup-source package, as
described in the instructions that come with that package.
5. Modprobe the synth module I need, and be able to go back to the
machine's keyboard, now running 2.6.26 with speakup as modules.

Is this correct, or is it in fact possible for me to build speakup
from the speakup-source package for the 2.6.26 kernel, while still
running 2.6.25.12, and thus avoid steps 2-3? This is my first time
having to deal with module-assistant, I'm trying to understand in more
detail what happens when the speakup-source package is built, without
actually having to go through the procedure beforehand.

Any clarification and elaboration on this would be much appreciated,
and thanks in advance.

Greg


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Re: question on speakup-source debian package

[Gaijin]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 03:36:21PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Let's say for example, that I am running a 2.6.25.12 custom-built
> kernel via kernel-package from the stock kernel.org sources, and that
> I want to upgrade to a custom-built 2.6.26 kernel built via
> kernel-package, again from stock kernel.org source.

	As long as you have the correct compiler for it, you should be
able to compile any kernel for any platform, irregardless of the kernel
currently running.  The compiler should be doing the work, converting
source to machine code.  If the folks at kernel.org couldn't compile a
2.6.26 kernel without a 2.6.26 kernel running, then they'd have to
write kernels in Assembler, or worse, a hex editor.

			Michael

Re: question on speakup-source debian package

[Gregory Nowak]

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On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 08:41:45PM -0700, Gaijin wrote:
> 	As long as you have the correct compiler for it, you should be
> able to compile any kernel for any platform, irregardless of the kernel
> currently running.  The compiler should be doing the work, converting
> source to machine code.  If the folks at kernel.org couldn't compile a
> 2.6.26 kernel without a 2.6.26 kernel running, then they'd have to
> write kernels in Assembler, or worse, a hex editor.

I think you didn't read my question carefully enough.

Greg


> 
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Re: question on speakup-source debian package

[Gaijin]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:23:51PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> I think you didn't read my question carefully enough.

	I replied to what I quoted from your previous post.  I'm
old-school and prefer a simple tarball over any of the other "supposed"
shortcut utilities to help patch the kernel, like git and
module-assistant, the latter who's use never seems to be mentioned when
patching SpeakUP into a kernel.  I'm just saying that you could compile
a 2.6.26 kernel on a Commodore-64 if the compiler is correct, as it just
translates sourcecode into bits and bytes the CPU understands.  I'm
assuming from what I've gathered that git just downloads the SpeakUP
code, though I've never gotten it to work, and running the patch script
that comes with SpeakUP is what patches the kernel.  Others can correct
me if I'm wrong.  I'm not sure why module-assistant was added for Debian
and seems like just another complication tossed into the process, so I'm
looking for a different distro that doesn't depend on 5 million lines of
perl script just to keep it working.  Debian already has 7 (that I know
of) interfaces into the package manager alone, each with extensive
documentation.

			Michael

Re: question on speakup-source debian package

[John covici]

OK, I should put in a word here -- in the latest speakup and I am not
sure about how Debian implements this, the kernel is not actually
patched unless you want to be able to use menuconfig to control what
is built in or not -- it just compiles the modules and you load the
ones you want.  Kernel source is no longer touched at all.

Hope this helps.

on Saturday 07/26/2008 Gaijin(gaijin@clearwire.net) wrote
 > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 11:23:51PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
 > > I think you didn't read my question carefully enough.
 > 
 > 	I replied to what I quoted from your previous post.  I'm
 > old-school and prefer a simple tarball over any of the other "supposed"
 > shortcut utilities to help patch the kernel, like git and
 > module-assistant, the latter who's use never seems to be mentioned when
 > patching SpeakUP into a kernel.  I'm just saying that you could compile
 > a 2.6.26 kernel on a Commodore-64 if the compiler is correct, as it just
 > translates sourcecode into bits and bytes the CPU understands.  I'm
 > assuming from what I've gathered that git just downloads the SpeakUP
 > code, though I've never gotten it to work, and running the patch script
 > that comes with SpeakUP is what patches the kernel.  Others can correct
 > me if I'm wrong.  I'm not sure why module-assistant was added for Debian
 > and seems like just another complication tossed into the process, so I'm
 > looking for a different distro that doesn't depend on 5 million lines of
 > perl script just to keep it working.  Debian already has 7 (that I know
 > of) interfaces into the package manager alone, each with extensive
 > documentation.
 > 
 > 			Michael
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Speakup mailing list
 > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: question on speakup-source debian package

[Gregory Nowak]

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Thanks, I understand that, and this is exactly what the speakup-source
package does as far as I can tell. Maybe I wasn't asking what I want
to know in the best way, so let me try to clarify. The
module-assistant man page reiterates more than once, that you should
be building modules against the source of the currently running
kernel. So, what I wanted to know is can I use the speakup-source
package to build the speakup modules against the 2.6.26 kernel, while
still running 2.6.25.12, or must I be running 2.6.26 to build the
speakup modules against it?

Hopefully, this makes what I'd like to know a bit clearer. Thanks.

Greg


On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 02:27:58PM -0400, John covici wrote:
> OK, I should put in a word here -- in the latest speakup and I am not
> sure about how Debian implements this, the kernel is not actually
> patched unless you want to be able to use menuconfig to control what
> is built in or not -- it just compiles the modules and you load the
> ones you want.  Kernel source is no longer touched at all.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 


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Re: question on speakup-source debian package

[John covici]

It looks like its designed to use the running kernel, but it also
looks like you could change the version and have it work, but you do
need the source package for the kernel and it might be that you need
to make its bzImage, even if you never use it for things to work
properly.

on Saturday 07/26/2008 Gregory Nowak(greg@romuald.net.eu.org) wrote
 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 > Hash: SHA1
 > 
 > Thanks, I understand that, and this is exactly what the speakup-source
 > package does as far as I can tell. Maybe I wasn't asking what I want
 > to know in the best way, so let me try to clarify. The
 > module-assistant man page reiterates more than once, that you should
 > be building modules against the source of the currently running
 > kernel. So, what I wanted to know is can I use the speakup-source
 > package to build the speakup modules against the 2.6.26 kernel, while
 > still running 2.6.25.12, or must I be running 2.6.26 to build the
 > speakup modules against it?
 > 
 > Hopefully, this makes what I'd like to know a bit clearer. Thanks.
 > 
 > Greg
 > 
 > 
 > On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 02:27:58PM -0400, John covici wrote:
 > > OK, I should put in a word here -- in the latest speakup and I am not
 > > sure about how Debian implements this, the kernel is not actually
 > > patched unless you want to be able to use menuconfig to control what
 > > is built in or not -- it just compiles the modules and you load the
 > > ones you want.  Kernel source is no longer touched at all.
 > > 
 > > Hope this helps.
 > > 
 > 
 > 
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 > _______________________________________________
 > Speakup mailing list
 > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: question on speakup-source debian package

[Gregory Nowak]

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Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. I think I may just stick with
patching from git by hand, unless there's some reason that makes using
the speakup-source package worth the bother. We'll see. Thanks again
John.

Greg


On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 05:02:01PM -0400, John covici wrote:
> It looks like its designed to use the running kernel, but it also
> looks like you could change the version and have it work, but you do
> need the source package for the kernel and it might be that you need
> to make its bzImage, even if you never use it for things to work
> properly.
> 


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Re: question on speakup-source debian package

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

Gregory Nowak, le Fri 25 Jul 2008 15:36:21 -0700, a écrit :
> is it in fact possible for me to build speakup from the speakup-source
> package for the 2.6.26 kernel, while still running 2.6.25.12, and thus
> avoid steps 2-3?

I guess some documentation is missing in the module-assistant package.
Yes you can do that by using the -l option.  The latest debian speakup
upload actually precisely fixed an issue when using it :)

In clear, compile/install your new 2.6.26-whatever kernel, and then you
should be able to run

m-a a-i -l 2.6.26-whatever speakup

Samuel