Fw: ISA to USB adapter

Fw: ISA to USB adapter

[Glenn at home]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn at home" <GlennErvin@cableone.net>
To: "Work E-mail" <glenn.ervin@ncbvi.ne.gov>; "Home E-mail" 
<GlennErvin@cableone.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 10:48 AM
Subject: ISA to USB adapter


http://www.arstech.com/cgi-bin/ccp51/cp-app.cgi

Re: Fw: ISA to USB adapter

[Gregory Nowak]

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It's great to find out that such a thing actually exists, and it would
in fact turn your doubletalk pc for example into a portable
usb-connected unit. However, I see a couple of pit falls here.

1. There kernel module and user-space program are proprietary. They
say the kernel module is compiled against linux 2.4.26, and that it
should work with any kernel. Does anyone know for sure that a module
compiled against a 2.4.x kernel will run on a 2.6.x kernel? If not, or
if this should ever change with future kernel versions, you're at
their mercy if you want to continue using your device via the usb
port.

2. This naturally wouldn't make the doubletalk available at
boot. However, booting with the none synth, and then loading the
doubletalk synth should in theory make it work with speakup.

On the bright side, they have their own API used to talk to the
usb-connected isa device, and it looks like it does allow you to talk
fully to any isa card. So, with a bit of coding in speakup, it should
be useable, once speakup supports usb-connected synths in general. No,
I don't naturally see a way that the current isa dtlk driver would
work with this as is, for obvious reasons, obvious to techies that is.

Greg

P.S. Oh yeah, this puppy sure is expensive, though certainly much
cheaper than that $300 motherboard.


On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 08:28:40PM -0600, Glenn at home wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Glenn at home" <GlennErvin@cableone.net>
> To: "Work E-mail" <glenn.ervin@ncbvi.ne.gov>; "Home E-mail" 
> <GlennErvin@cableone.net>
> Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 10:48 AM
> Subject: ISA to USB adapter
> 
> 
> http://www.arstech.com/cgi-bin/ccp51/cp-app.cgi
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: Fw: ISA to USB adapter

[Samuel Thibault]

Hi,

Gregory Nowak, le Thu 09 Nov 2006 20:22:45 -0700, a écrit :
> 1. There kernel module and user-space program are proprietary. They
> say the kernel module is compiled against linux 2.4.26, and that it
> should work with any kernel.  Does anyone know for sure that a module
> compiled against a 2.4.x kernel will run on a 2.6.x kernel?

I _STRONGLY_ doubt this... The USB stack has changed a lot between linux
2.4.26 and nowadays 2.6.18...

> On the bright side, they have their own API used to talk to the
> usb-connected isa device, and it looks like it does allow you to talk
> fully to any isa card.

Oh! Then a free driver could be written.

> So, with a bit of coding in speakup, it should be useable,

That should rather be done in the Linux kernel.  Not only blind people
would like to use such card...

Samuel

Re: Fw: ISA to USB adapter

[Gregory Nowak]

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On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 10:19:54AM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> I _STRONGLY_ doubt this... The USB stack has changed a lot between linux
> 2.4.26 and nowadays 2.6.18...
> 

That's what I thought, but they did say _any_ kernel, so I thought
that maybe I was wrong in thinking it would run under 2.6.x.

> > On the bright side, they have their own API used to talk to the
> > usb-connected isa device, and it looks like it does allow you to talk
> > fully to any isa card.
> 
> Oh! Then a free driver could be written.
> 

For what, the isa card? If so, then I didn't see a problem there in
the first place. All that would be required as far as I know, would be
to
modify existing code that works with the isa card, to communicate with
that card using their API, over usb.

> > So, with a bit of coding in speakup, it should be useable,
> 
> That should rather be done in the Linux kernel.  Not only blind people
> would like to use such card...
> 

Let me address that comment literally first, and then I'll clear the
misconception that seems to have arisen here I think. First, I don't
know why someone other then a blind person would want to use a
doubletalk pc, unless it was for development purposes, especially
since you can't by them brand new anymore.

Now, let me address the misconception that I think we have here. When
I say talk to the isa card, I literally mean just that, talk to the
isa card. From your comments, I think you're misinterpreting that, and
reading it as talk to the usb device the isa card is mounted in. The
API I mentioned is their own API used to talk _directly_ to the isa
card, once the kernel module, and the user space program for the usb
device the card is mounted in have been loaded. So, if you mean that a
free driver for the usb to isa device should be in the linux kernel,
since everybody would want to use it, I do agree there. In that case,
as has been done with other hardware, you'd need to spy on how the usb
device communicates with the system with the proprietary code running,
and then try to replicate that in a free driver, assuming that their
lawyers haven't thought ahead of you, and already prohibited you from
doing such a thing in their license agreement.

Greg




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Re: Fw: ISA to USB adapter

[Samuel Thibault]

Gregory Nowak, le Fri 10 Nov 2006 09:32:53 -0700, a écrit :
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2006 at 10:19:54AM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > I _STRONGLY_ doubt this... The USB stack has changed a lot between linux
> > 2.4.26 and nowadays 2.6.18...
> 
> That's what I thought, but they did say _any_ kernel,

Never trust a commercial :)

> > > On the bright side, they have their own API used to talk to the
> > > usb-connected isa device, and it looks like it does allow you to talk
> > > fully to any isa card.
> > 
> > Oh! Then a free driver could be written.
> > 
> 
> For what, the isa card?

No, for the USB2ISA adapter.  But actually, when digging in the doc,
their "API" is only for _using_ their proprietary module, not the
documentation of the device itself.

> If so, then I didn't see a problem there in the first place. All that
> would be required as far as I know, would be to modify existing code
> that works with the isa card, to communicate with that card using
> their API, over usb.

A mere #include that re-#defines inb/outb etc would be enough, yes.

> > > So, with a bit of coding in speakup, it should be useable,
> > 
> > That should rather be done in the Linux kernel.  Not only blind people
> > would like to use such card...
> > 
> 
> Let me address that comment literally first, and then I'll clear the
> misconception that seems to have arisen here I think. First, I don't
> know why someone other then a blind person would want to use a
> doubletalk pc,

by "such", I was meaning "an ISA card". And yes, people have good old
ISA cards for acquire data, talk to oldies, tinker, ...

> So, if you mean that a free driver for the usb to isa device should be
> in the linux kernel, since everybody would want to use it, I do agree
> there.

That's it, so we agree, my phrasing was just bogus :)

> In that case, as has been done with other hardware, you'd need to
> spy on how the usb device communicates with the system with the
> proprietary code running, and then try to replicate that in a free
> driver, assuming that their lawyers haven't thought ahead of you,
> and already prohibited you from doing such a thing in their license
> agreement.

In Europe, you can always do this if the company refuses to give
interoperatibility information. Hence whatever the licence agreement.

Samuel