OT: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

OT: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Karen Lewellen]

Greetings all,
I did not at first rase this issue here, but on the speakup list.  now 
that i have additional information, I want to reach out to a broader source 
of guidance.
I am a member of a professional media organization called AIR
airmedia.org

the group provides information to producers and broadcasters serving the 
public radio community,  and the general public.  One of their services is 
a monthly online conference called the air spotlight.
This is accessed via a chat client which is a part of the hosting service 
used by AIR.  It is my understanding, although I am seeking more direct 
information, that this is only a Java protocol system which has cost the 
organization nothing thus far as it is thrown in with their hosting 
options.  I am getting more direct information for the company so I can 
confirm this.

Interestingly enough the Java structure is presenting barriers for more 
than just me, it is not javascript and apparently even those using windows 
and macs have trouble.
I am suggesting that an IRC portal be created that can be accessed at the 
same time as the regular conference, which are monthly.  this will not only 
alow me to join, I am joining the organization's board, but anyone else 
who can access mirc, the windows client for IRC.

  I want to learn how difficult it is to create such a portal, and what is 
required. or  would it be easier to enable javascript to go along with 
their Java setup?
anyone with serious knowledge, can you write me off list?   i want to 
present as factual an option as i can for this.
Thanks very much,
Karen lewellen

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Sean McMahon]

ok, first of all, java has nothing at all to do with javascript.  If in fact,
this client is java, java apps are supported in linux.  Whether you can use a
java-based client depends on whether you have a compatible jvm and whether you
have an accessible means of accessing the application.  For example, if you
personally couldn't access a java-based gui, and the application in question
only had a gui, then this is the fault of the applications author.  If you can't
run the java-based application because you don't have one or the permissions to
use one on your linux system, then that is something which you or your system
administrator can solve.  Of course any of us here would agree that this
organization would do best not to re-invent the wheel,  however, you don't want
to suggest a solution if it is the incorrect one.  In short, stick to your core
competencies and your current role when reporting a problem.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@shellworld.net>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 2:32 PM
Subject: OT: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?


> Greetings all,
> I did not at first rase this issue here, but on the speakup list.  now
> that i have additional information, I want to reach out to a broader source
> of guidance.
> I am a member of a professional media organization called AIR
> airmedia.org
>
> the group provides information to producers and broadcasters serving the
> public radio community,  and the general public.  One of their services is
> a monthly online conference called the air spotlight.
> This is accessed via a chat client which is a part of the hosting service
> used by AIR.  It is my understanding, although I am seeking more direct
> information, that this is only a Java protocol system which has cost the
> organization nothing thus far as it is thrown in with their hosting
> options.  I am getting more direct information for the company so I can
> confirm this.
>
> Interestingly enough the Java structure is presenting barriers for more
> than just me, it is not javascript and apparently even those using windows
> and macs have trouble.
> I am suggesting that an IRC portal be created that can be accessed at the
> same time as the regular conference, which are monthly.  this will not only
> alow me to join, I am joining the organization's board, but anyone else
> who can access mirc, the windows client for IRC.
>
>   I want to learn how difficult it is to create such a portal, and what is
> required. or  would it be easier to enable javascript to go along with
> their Java setup?
> anyone with serious knowledge, can you write me off list?   i want to
> present as factual an option as i can for this.
> Thanks very much,
> Karen lewellen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Karen Lewellen]

Okay, this brings up a new question then.
It has been my understanding that  e-links is the only Java oriented 
browser, as lynx does not support Java.  I am using the lynx shell at 
shellworld, and e-links is here exactly because it is supposed to access 
Java, or at least javascript.
I agree with you that i would rather not ask them to ree vent the wheel, 
but what other options do I have to access this client?
when i raised the question before, someone referenced irc, which is why i 
asked about this option.

I do not have my own Linux system, but again use shellworld.
Thanks,
Karen

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005, Sean McMahon wrote:

> ok, first of all, java has nothing at all to do with javascript.  If in fact,
> this client is java, java apps are supported in linux.  Whether you can use a
> java-based client depends on whether you have a compatible jvm and whether you
> have an accessible means of accessing the application.  For example, if you
> personally couldn't access a java-based gui, and the application in question
> only had a gui, then this is the fault of the applications author.  If you can't
> run the java-based application because you don't have one or the permissions to
> use one on your linux system, then that is something which you or your system
> administrator can solve.  Of course any of us here would agree that this
> organization would do best not to re-invent the wheel,  however, you don't want
> to suggest a solution if it is the incorrect one.  In short, stick to your core
> competencies and your current role when reporting a problem.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@shellworld.net>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 2:32 PM
> Subject: OT: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?
>
>
>> Greetings all,
>> I did not at first rase this issue here, but on the speakup list.  now
>> that i have additional information, I want to reach out to a broader source
>> of guidance.
>> I am a member of a professional media organization called AIR
>> airmedia.org
>>
>> the group provides information to producers and broadcasters serving the
>> public radio community,  and the general public.  One of their services is
>> a monthly online conference called the air spotlight.
>> This is accessed via a chat client which is a part of the hosting service
>> used by AIR.  It is my understanding, although I am seeking more direct
>> information, that this is only a Java protocol system which has cost the
>> organization nothing thus far as it is thrown in with their hosting
>> options.  I am getting more direct information for the company so I can
>> confirm this.
>>
>> Interestingly enough the Java structure is presenting barriers for more
>> than just me, it is not javascript and apparently even those using windows
>> and macs have trouble.
>> I am suggesting that an IRC portal be created that can be accessed at the
>> same time as the regular conference, which are monthly.  this will not only
>> alow me to join, I am joining the organization's board, but anyone else
>> who can access mirc, the windows client for IRC.
>>
>>   I want to learn how difficult it is to create such a portal, and what is
>> required. or  would it be easier to enable javascript to go along with
>> their Java setup?
>> anyone with serious knowledge, can you write me off list?   i want to
>> present as factual an option as i can for this.
>> Thanks very much,
>> Karen lewellen
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Karen, Anne, and all, 

Others have had more experience with text mode conferencing in Linux 
than I, but for what it's worth, here is my experience:

There are numerous IRC clients that work well enough in Linux. I have 
used BitchX to participate in text mode conferences with little or not 
difficulty, after tweaking the default configuration a bit. I have been 
told that there are better clients than BitchX for the purpose, but 
never moved on up to another.

Currently I am using jabber very successfully for instant messaging, 
relying on the client called "imcom" for the purpose. There are 
conferences available on the jabber network, and I have also 
successfully participated in one of them using imcom.

In addition to providing instant messaging and conferencing, jabber 
supports gateways to the major proprietary conferencing and messaging 
services such as ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, AOL Instant Messenger, and the 
rest, but I have not attempted to use those gateways (or transports in 
jabberese). I know of at least one serious speakup user who uses them 
happily, and at least one other who has had enormous difficulty doing 
so. I also understand that the new Google Talk service relies on the 
jabber protocol, or a jabber-like protocol, but again I have not 
attempted to interact with it, and do not know if they do conferences 
anyway. Jabber uses the terms "MUC" (multi user chat) and "conference" 
interchangeably. 

The various IRC services and the jabber network are all GPL, and there 
are client programs to access them for all the major platforms, Windows, 
Mac, and Linux.

While it is possible to do text mode conferencing in Linux, my 
experience has been that it is usually a very rapid fire experience that 
challenges my reaction time to participate effectively. In short, it is 
no fun! But it is do-able.

That's it, you have just picked my brain clear to the bone.

Chuck

-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (72% of Full)
But you can still get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
or you could Jabber me, using JID chuckh@hhs48.com

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Karen Lewellen]

Charles,
I am trying to follow this in the context of my question.
Are you suggesting that one of these avenues, one of the networks you 
referenced, may have a portal structure in place that might let me visit.

interact.airmedia.org

and access their chat/conference client there, which is proprietory  java 
based, and not a messing service?
I realize you have said you do not know much, but is this in part what 
you are suggesting
I need no irc client there is a fine one here at shellworld.  However at 
the moment there is no irc portal that connects to this site, and i am not 
sure if one can be created.
That falls under the reeventing the wheel category perhaps.
thanks,
Karen

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> Karen, Anne, and all,
>
> Others have had more experience with text mode conferencing in Linux
> than I, but for what it's worth, here is my experience:
>
> There are numerous IRC clients that work well enough in Linux. I have
> used BitchX to participate in text mode conferences with little or not
> difficulty, after tweaking the default configuration a bit. I have been
> told that there are better clients than BitchX for the purpose, but
> never moved on up to another.
>
> Currently I am using jabber very successfully for instant messaging,
> relying on the client called "imcom" for the purpose. There are
> conferences available on the jabber network, and I have also
> successfully participated in one of them using imcom.
>
> In addition to providing instant messaging and conferencing, jabber
> supports gateways to the major proprietary conferencing and messaging
> services such as ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, AOL Instant Messenger, and the
> rest, but I have not attempted to use those gateways (or transports in
> jabberese). I know of at least one serious speakup user who uses them
> happily, and at least one other who has had enormous difficulty doing
> so. I also understand that the new Google Talk service relies on the
> jabber protocol, or a jabber-like protocol, but again I have not
> attempted to interact with it, and do not know if they do conferences
> anyway. Jabber uses the terms "MUC" (multi user chat) and "conference"
> interchangeably.
>
> The various IRC services and the jabber network are all GPL, and there
> are client programs to access them for all the major platforms, Windows,
> Mac, and Linux.
>
> While it is possible to do text mode conferencing in Linux, my
> experience has been that it is usually a very rapid fire experience that
> challenges my reaction time to participate effectively. In short, it is
> no fun! But it is do-able.
>
> That's it, you have just picked my brain clear to the bone.
>
> Chuck
>
> -- 
> The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (72% of Full)
> But you can still get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> or you could Jabber me, using JID chuckh@hhs48.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Karen,

I did not mean to suggest that anything I said could solve your problem, 
but I hoped it might add to the context of text mode conferencing in 
Linux. If your folks are using a proprietary protocol that relies on 
java, you might very well be obliged to use a proprietary client that 
their service supports. As others have said, the problem with 
proprietary formats and protocols is that their owners do not want 
others to be able to use them, and so the only Linux solutions you will 
find will be those that have been reverse engineered without the 
permission of the owners. And such solutions are guaranteed to become 
outdated and inoperable as soon as the owners of the protocol decide to 
change their specs to exclude them. 

I think the bottom line of my earlier post would be that text mode 
conferencing works in Linux with open source GPL tools, but the issue of 
interacting with proprietary formats is iffy at best. I am not sure why 
you are hesitant to recommend to the AIR people that they switch to an 
open protocol that does not dictate which OS and which client their 
participants must use. Jabber would be one such open service, and it is 
all free for the asking.

Chuck

-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (73% of Full)
But you can still get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
or you could Jabber me, using JID chuckh@hhs48.com

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi chuck,
I think you are working from the idea that i need a major long term 
solution, and that the owners intend to change their protocol to exclude 
whatever third party option I discover.  None of this is firmly true.  In 
fact I have  a feeling they do not even know of the problem.

I will have to go back and look for the names of those third party 
options, but as the agency's site is hosted there until that host tells me 
they do not wish to help us, i cannot suggest that they move their chat.
Interestingly enough even the  less vision challenged to sighted windows 
and  mac users have problems with 
this  host's client, so it is not just me.  I want to be certain I cannot 
on the one hand, find a short term solution, the conference is only once a 
month, and on the other see if we can find a solution that helps more 
people, without as sean said, reeventing the wheel.
I am going to speak to the host company myself tomorrow.  what i really 
hope to have by then  are the options that can be integrated if possible, 
or the options that may be workable that they have not considered.
The company is called webcrossing and they are based in the bay area.
I believe you would better understand why i just cannot have the entire 
nonprofit international broadcasting group  move if you visit the agency's 
site. airmedia.org

Thanks,
Karen

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> Karen,
>
> I did not mean to suggest that anything I said could solve your problem,
> but I hoped it might add to the context of text mode conferencing in
> Linux. If your folks are using a proprietary protocol that relies on
> java, you might very well be obliged to use a proprietary client that
> their service supports. As others have said, the problem with
> proprietary formats and protocols is that their owners do not want
> others to be able to use them, and so the only Linux solutions you will
> find will be those that have been reverse engineered without the
> permission of the owners. And such solutions are guaranteed to become
> outdated and inoperable as soon as the owners of the protocol decide to
> change their specs to exclude them.
>
> I think the bottom line of my earlier post would be that text mode
> conferencing works in Linux with open source GPL tools, but the issue of
> interacting with proprietary formats is iffy at best. I am not sure why
> you are hesitant to recommend to the AIR people that they switch to an
> open protocol that does not dictate which OS and which client their
> participants must use. Jabber would be one such open service, and it is
> all free for the asking.
>
> Chuck
>
> -- 
> The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (73% of Full)
> But you can still get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
> or you could Jabber me, using JID chuckh@hhs48.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Well, good luck. I hope you can come up with something.

-- 
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (77% of Full)
But you can still get downloads from http://www.mhcable.com/~chuckh
or you could Jabber me, using JID chuckh@hhs48.com

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.

You keep confusing java and javascript.  They are not the same!

Neither elinks or links2 have java support.  They have javascript support!

Links2 has better javascript support than elinks, but elinks has better
all round support for the web.  One important thing missing from links2
is http authorization.

          Kenny

On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 07:53:17AM -0400, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Okay, this brings up a new question then.
> It has been my understanding that  e-links is the only Java oriented 
> browser, as lynx does not support Java.  I am using the lynx shell at 
> shellworld, and e-links is here exactly because it is supposed to access 
> Java, or at least javascript.
> I agree with you that i would rather not ask them to ree vent the wheel, 
> but what other options do I have to access this client?
> when i raised the question before, someone referenced irc, which is why i 
> asked about this option.
> 
> I do not have my own Linux system, but again use shellworld.
> Thanks,
> Karen
> 
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005, Sean McMahon wrote:
> 
> >ok, first of all, java has nothing at all to do with javascript.  If in 
> >fact,
> >this client is java, java apps are supported in linux.  Whether you can 
> >use a
> >java-based client depends on whether you have a compatible jvm and whether 
> >you
> >have an accessible means of accessing the application.  For example, if you
> >personally couldn't access a java-based gui, and the application in 
> >question
> >only had a gui, then this is the fault of the applications author.  If you 
> >can't
> >run the java-based application because you don't have one or the 
> >permissions to
> >use one on your linux system, then that is something which you or your 
> >system
> >administrator can solve.  Of course any of us here would agree that this
> >organization would do best not to re-invent the wheel,  however, you don't 
> >want
> >to suggest a solution if it is the incorrect one.  In short, stick to your 
> >core
> >competencies and your current role when reporting a problem.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@shellworld.net>
> >To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> >Cc: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> >Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 2:32 PM
> >Subject: OT: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?
> >
> >
> >>Greetings all,
> >>I did not at first rase this issue here, but on the speakup list.  now
> >>that i have additional information, I want to reach out to a broader 
> >>source
> >>of guidance.
> >>I am a member of a professional media organization called AIR
> >>airmedia.org
> >>
> >>the group provides information to producers and broadcasters serving the
> >>public radio community,  and the general public.  One of their services is
> >>a monthly online conference called the air spotlight.
> >>This is accessed via a chat client which is a part of the hosting service
> >>used by AIR.  It is my understanding, although I am seeking more direct
> >>information, that this is only a Java protocol system which has cost the
> >>organization nothing thus far as it is thrown in with their hosting
> >>options.  I am getting more direct information for the company so I can
> >>confirm this.
> >>
> >>Interestingly enough the Java structure is presenting barriers for more
> >>than just me, it is not javascript and apparently even those using windows
> >>and macs have trouble.
> >>I am suggesting that an IRC portal be created that can be accessed at the
> >>same time as the regular conference, which are monthly.  this will not 
> >>only
> >>alow me to join, I am joining the organization's board, but anyone else
> >>who can access mirc, the windows client for IRC.
> >>
> >>  I want to learn how difficult it is to create such a portal, and what is
> >>required. or  would it be easier to enable javascript to go along with
> >>their Java setup?
> >>anyone with serious knowledge, can you write me off list?   i want to
> >>present as factual an option as i can for this.
> >>Thanks very much,
> >>Karen lewellen
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Speakup mailing list
> >>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

OT: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Ann K. Parsons]

Hi Karen,

Actually, a discussion of this kind is a worthy one for this list.  I
don't know the technical details, but having explored the
possibilities of using the TCConference software in Linux, I can
understand your frustration.  

What client is this?  Who makes it?  Is it under the GPL?   These
would be my first questions to ask.  If it's under the GPL, making a
port would be easy.  If it isn't, then you got problems.   I
understand that TCConference works in Linux, for example, but you must
run X, and you must have a way to access it, either Gnome or something
else.  Developers of TCConference haven't been exactly forthcoming
about just how their client works in Linux.  These are problems I am
facing.  I imagine you're in the same boat, though with a different
software.  

I'd really like to see a discussion of this problem and how it gets
solved.  So, I'm pleading for folks not to take it off-list.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
Skype:  Putertutor
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[Sean McMahon]

Ann, have you ever used something called teamtalk in linux?  I know they make a
port and it is also a talking conference type of software.  Can't say if it is
command-line based.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann K. Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:30 AM
Subject: OT: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?


> Hi Karen,
>
> Actually, a discussion of this kind is a worthy one for this list.  I
> don't know the technical details, but having explored the
> possibilities of using the TCConference software in Linux, I can
> understand your frustration.
>
> What client is this?  Who makes it?  Is it under the GPL?   These
> would be my first questions to ask.  If it's under the GPL, making a
> port would be easy.  If it isn't, then you got problems.   I
> understand that TCConference works in Linux, for example, but you must
> run X, and you must have a way to access it, either Gnome or something
> else.  Developers of TCConference haven't been exactly forthcoming
> about just how their client works in Linux.  These are problems I am
> facing.  I imagine you're in the same boat, though with a different
> software.
>
> I'd really like to see a discussion of this problem and how it gets
> solved.  So, I'm pleading for folks not to take it off-list.
>
> Ann P.
>
> -- 
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> Skype:  Putertutor
> "All that is gold does not glitter.
> Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?

[farhan]

Hello, uh i no the developer of teamtalk, if its the teamtalk I think 
your talkign about it should be at http://bearware.dk last time I 
checked, he said he didn't  have a linux port.


Sean McMahon wrote:
> Ann, have you ever used something called teamtalk in linux?  I know they make a
> port and it is also a talking conference type of software.  Can't say if it is
> command-line based.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ann K. Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:30 AM
> Subject: OT: Linux, online confrences, and IRC portals?
> 
> 
>> Hi Karen,
>>
>> Actually, a discussion of this kind is a worthy one for this list.  I
>> don't know the technical details, but having explored the
>> possibilities of using the TCConference software in Linux, I can
>> understand your frustration.
>>
>> What client is this?  Who makes it?  Is it under the GPL?   These
>> would be my first questions to ask.  If it's under the GPL, making a
>> port would be easy.  If it isn't, then you got problems.   I
>> understand that TCConference works in Linux, for example, but you must
>> run X, and you must have a way to access it, either Gnome or something
>> else.  Developers of TCConference haven't been exactly forthcoming
>> about just how their client works in Linux.  These are problems I am
>> facing.  I imagine you're in the same boat, though with a different
>> software.
>>
>> I'd really like to see a discussion of this problem and how it gets
>> solved.  So, I'm pleading for folks not to take it off-list.
>>
>> Ann P.
>>
>> -- 
>> Ann K. Parsons
>> email:  akp@eznet.net
>> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
>> Skype:  Putertutor
>> "All that is gold does not glitter.
>> Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Farhan.
contact info:
aim and stoof
msn: i.am.Farhan@gmail.com
jabber: farhan@jabber.org