Why does it need that much hard disk space?

Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Cris Ali]

Hi Folks,
I was surprised to learn that installing linux requires more than three gigs
of hard disk space, 20 times more than windows98.  If i am to install it on
my retired 90 mhz pentium, i have to buy a new hard disk.  This machine has
two hard disks, one is 2.2 gigs, and the second is only 320 megs.  Is it
possible to have a small installation of linux, at least to learn how to use
this system?  Secondly, does anyone know a good place to buy inexpensive
hard drives that would be competibile with old computers?
Cheers,
Cris Ali

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Buddy Brannan]

Actually, Linux *doesn't* require all that space. Here's the big
difference: Windows *does* require a bunch of space for its
install. You get a few applications--basic word processor and text
editor, clock, Internet connectivity, Web browser, file sharing, and
so on--and you have to install most of it. A GNU/Linux system, on the
other hand, gives you choices--which is what takes up most of the
space. You can get a very minimal system on a couple floppies, but as
I said, it's very minimal, generally tailored to a specific
application--rescuing another system, acting as a router, etc. You can
get a fairly usable system in something like 100 MB, including a
compiler, browser, text editor, and so on. You can get a very complete
system without X-Window in afew hundred megabytes, including several
of most kinds of applications you're likely to use. 

The reason you're seeing the huge space requirement is that that
installs a whole bunch of different applications, games, browsers, and
so on, along with lots of development things, and a bunch of stuff
you're likely not to use. The thing is, with a *full* multi-gigabyte
installation, you've got about five of nearly anything to choose from
for your use--by default. You can pare that down very easily to quite
a lot less space. 

Someone else wanna explain that better?
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
                         | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Not at all.  I have installed a full slackware system even using
install options which put in software I don't ever need or want and
it's taken up 900 mb of space.  Also, my debian installs only take
up around 200 mb of space and that is with the compilers.  Without
those it would take up less room than that.

Linux basic system can run fine on 100 mb or less. it depends on what all
you want to do.


Cris Ali said the following
on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:16:02PM -0400:
> Hi Folks,
> I was surprised to learn that installing linux requires more than three gigs
> of hard disk space, 20 times more than windows98.  If i am to install it on
> my retired 90 mhz pentium, i have to buy a new hard disk.  This machine has
> two hard disks, one is 2.2 gigs, and the second is only 320 megs.  Is it
> possible to have a small installation of linux, at least to learn how to use
> this system?  Secondly, does anyone know a good place to buy inexpensive
> hard drives that would be competibile with old computers?
> Cheers,
> Cris Ali
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Think you did it pretty good Buddy.

Besides which I'm sure hearing it from multiple people will help.
Chris, feel free to ask as many questions as you wish.

Buddy Brannon said
the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:37:11PM -0400:
> Actually, Linux *doesn't* require all that space. Here's the big
> difference: Windows *does* require a bunch of space for its
> install. You get a few applications--basic word processor and text
> editor, clock, Internet connectivity, Web browser, file sharing, and
> so on--and you have to install most of it. A GNU/Linux system, on the
> other hand, gives you choices--which is what takes up most of the
> space. You can get a very minimal system on a couple floppies, but as
> I said, it's very minimal, generally tailored to a specific
> application--rescuing another system, acting as a router, etc. You can
> get a fairly usable system in something like 100 MB, including a
> compiler, browser, text editor, and so on. You can get a very complete
> system without X-Window in afew hundred megabytes, including several
> of most kinds of applications you're likely to use. 
> 
> The reason you're seeing the huge space requirement is that that
> installs a whole bunch of different applications, games, browsers, and
> so on, along with lots of development things, and a bunch of stuff
> you're likely not to use. The thing is, with a *full* multi-gigabyte
> installation, you've got about five of nearly anything to choose from
> for your use--by default. You can pare that down very easily to quite
> a lot less space. 
> 
> Someone else wanna explain that better?
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
> Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
>                          | I want easy people from now on.
>                          | --the Nields
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net

Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Well, if you go with Red Hat, what do you expect?  Also, you do not
need to install *everything* on your hard drive at all!  I dunnow
about RH, but Debian gives you an option where you can select the
packages you want to install.  The X stuff you don't need yet, so
dispense with it.  Some of the other stuff you may not need either.
I'm sure someone here can help you to determine just what you do and
don't need to install.  

Red Hat may have an install program for folks who want to do it
manually instead of installing the whole kitten-kabootle.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

Try zipspeak to start with. It only requires about 100 megs for the base system.
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:16:02PM -0400, Cris Ali wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> I was surprised to learn that installing linux requires more than three gigs
> of hard disk space, 20 times more than windows98.  If i am to install it on
> my retired 90 mhz pentium, i have to buy a new hard disk.  This machine has
> two hard disks, one is 2.2 gigs, and the second is only 320 megs.  Is it
> possible to have a small installation of linux, at least to learn how to use
> this system?  Secondly, does anyone know a good place to buy inexpensive
> hard drives that would be competibile with old computers?
> Cheers,
> Cris Ali
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi Buddy,

Nope, you explained it very well indeed.  Now, care to take the next
step, which I am not knowledgeable enough to try?  Send a short list
of the things that are *really* needed in a Linux installation.

Lemme see if I can start.  

First, you need the kernel.  

then you need some kind of editor, VI Emax whatever, an editor.  

You'll probably want the C libraries for yourself, or for anyone
tinkering on your system.

You'll want Lynx and its attendant libraries.

You'll want the curses stuff too.

You'll want the alsa stuff for your sound card and its attendant
stuff.

You'll want a mailer, Pine, MUT or something.

You'll want the stuff for your network card if you have one or the PPP
stuff for dialup.  

That should do you, I think.  Have I forgotten anything, Buddy? 

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Ann Parsons said the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:50:39PM -0400:
> Well, if you go with Red Hat, what do you expect?

What do you mean?  Does redhat install 3 gb worth of files?  I don't
think it does and I've never installed it.

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

I think that it isn't wise for a newby to start with alsa. I think newbys should start with the kernel sound drivers, and progress to alsa when they've gotten the hang of the various system components after a while.
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:58:27PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi Buddy,
> 
> Nope, you explained it very well indeed.  Now, care to take the next
> step, which I am not knowledgeable enough to try?  Send a short list
> of the things that are *really* needed in a Linux installation.
> 
> Lemme see if I can start.  
> 
> First, you need the kernel.  
> 
> then you need some kind of editor, VI Emax whatever, an editor.  
> 
> You'll probably want the C libraries for yourself, or for anyone
> tinkering on your system.
> 
> You'll want Lynx and its attendant libraries.
> 
> You'll want the curses stuff too.
> 
> You'll want the alsa stuff for your sound card and its attendant
> stuff.
> 
> You'll want a mailer, Pine, MUT or something.
> 
> You'll want the stuff for your network card if you have one or the PPP
> stuff for dialup.  
> 
> That should do you, I think.  Have I forgotten anything, Buddy? 
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> -- 
> 			Ann K. Parsons  
> email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Buddy Brannan]

On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:58:27PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> Hi Buddy,
> 
> Nope, you explained it very well indeed.  Now, care to take the next
> step, which I am not knowledgeable enough to try?  Send a short list
> of the things that are *really* needed in a Linux installation.
> 
> Lemme see if I can start.  
[...]
> First, you need the kernel.  

...And bash. You'll need bash, or some other shell. Course, I think
all distros install one of these by default :)

> 
> then you need some kind of editor, VI Emax whatever, an editor.  
> 
> You'll probably want the C libraries for yourself, or for anyone
> tinkering on your system.
> 
> You'll want Lynx and its attendant libraries.
> 
> You'll want the curses stuff too.

Absolutely you want the NCurses stuff. unches of stuff won't work
properly without it. 

> 
> You'll want the alsa stuff for your sound card and its attendant
> stuff.

If by "attendant stuff" you mean the mixer, setup utilities, and so
on, absolutely. If you mean audio programs in general, let me
elaborate: 

You want sox (and all the scripts that do things with it, like play
for instance). ALSA of course coms with a .wv player and
recorder. You'll want trplayer and the RealAudio libraries if you want
RealAudio streaming media. MPG123 or MPG321 or freeamp won't go amiss,
and neither would the OGG Vorbis tools. But of course, you don't need
them. And Speak Freely is fun as well.

> 
> You'll want a mailer, Pine, MUT or something.

...As well as fetchmail (probably) and a mail transport (sendmail,
exim, or qmail)

> 
> You'll want the stuff for your network card if you have one or the PPP
> stuff for dialup.  

...The support for both is in the kernel, but you'll certainly need
pppd for dialup, and wvdial is very nice. And don't forget useful
network and diagnostic things like ping, traceroute, etc. ...  But all
the network stuff generally goes in all at once, or a lot of it does
anyway. Also telnet and ftp clients (ncftp and lftp are nice ftp clients)

> 
> That should do you, I think.  Have I forgotten anything, Buddy? 
> 

I think that we've go it covered, mostly. It sounds quite a bit bigger
than it is, and bear in mind also that the architecture is quite a bit
different than Windows--that is, you need more supporting things in
Linux for stuff to work, (C libraries, NCurses, etc.), which makes the
whole system more efficient as a program can call up common components
and not be bloated with extra code duplicated elsewhere. (Well, it
sounds good, anyway.) 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
                         | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

['Georgina']

Hi

Well while everyone is going off in their own little worlds, allow me to
answer your questions.  As you've seen people are sensative over their
preferred distribution.

You do not need to buy a new disk for your machine.  Interestingly,
where did you hear about GNU/Linux needing 3 Gb?

All you'll need is a hardware synthesiser if you want to ge the speakup
route or get some sighted help to install emacspeak with via voice.
Gena



Blindness Advocacy and Self Help Online www.bashonline.org

>Hi Folks,
>I was surprised to learn that installing linux requires more than three gigs
>of hard disk space, 20 times more than windows98.  If i am to install it on
>my retired 90 mhz pentium, i have to buy a new hard disk.  This machine has
>two hard disks, one is 2.2 gigs, and the second is only 320 megs.  Is it
>possible to have a small installation of linux, at least to learn how to use
>this system?  Secondly, does anyone know a good place to buy inexpensive
>hard drives that would be competibile with old computers?
>Cheers,
>Cris Ali
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Igor Gueths]

Hi. You are using redhat right? Or Debian? If you are using Debian, there is a program called dselect, which runs during the installation and prompts you for packages you want to install. This is after the base system has been installed. Dselect will automatically select programs for you, and it will install about 90 packages. I believe that since the packages are pretty small, you have a very usable system in about 300-500 mb. Note: Don't say no if whatever distro asks you if you want to install additional packages. I did this, and ended up with a system that was unusable due to its lack of programs. And I didn't have any installaiton Cds, so I had to re-install Winblows and create the disks from the iso images. Hope this helps, write back if you have anymore questions. Privately or on-list.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Buddy Brannan <davros@ycardz.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> Actually, Linux *doesn't* require all that space. Here's the big
> difference: Windows *does* require a bunch of space for its
> install. You get a few applications--basic word processor and text
> editor, clock, Internet connectivity, Web browser, file sharing, and
> so on--and you have to install most of it. A GNU/Linux system, on the
> other hand, gives you choices--which is what takes up most of the
> space. You can get a very minimal system on a couple floppies, but as
> I said, it's very minimal, generally tailored to a specific
> application--rescuing another system, acting as a router, etc. You can
> get a fairly usable system in something like 100 MB, including a
> compiler, browser, text editor, and so on. You can get a very complete
> system without X-Window in afew hundred megabytes, including several
> of most kinds of applications you're likely to use. 
> 
> The reason you're seeing the huge space requirement is that that
> installs a whole bunch of different applications, games, browsers, and
> so on, along with lots of development things, and a bunch of stuff
> you're likely not to use. The thing is, with a *full* multi-gigabyte
> installation, you've got about five of nearly anything to choose from
> for your use--by default. You can pare that down very easily to quite
> a lot less space. 
> 
> Someone else wanna explain that better?
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
> Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
>                          | I want easy people from now on.
>                          | --the Nields
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Ann. You did it fine. Also include the sources for your kernel, not just the compiled binaries so you can rebuild it if you require it. Also install gcc-2.95 not 3.0 or higher. This is because there are bugs in the linker which will break some packages I have tried to install. Ghostscript was one of these. I got gcc-2.95.2, got it up and running with no problems. Now just have to read the docs to figure out how to spool jobs to my hp printer. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> Hi Buddy,
> 
> Nope, you explained it very well indeed.  Now, care to take the next
> step, which I am not knowledgeable enough to try?  Send a short list
> of the things that are *really* needed in a Linux installation.
> 
> Lemme see if I can start.  
> 
> First, you need the kernel.  
> 
> then you need some kind of editor, VI Emax whatever, an editor.  
> 
> You'll probably want the C libraries for yourself, or for anyone
> tinkering on your system.
> 
> You'll want Lynx and its attendant libraries.
> 
> You'll want the curses stuff too.
> 
> You'll want the alsa stuff for your sound card and its attendant
> stuff.
> 
> You'll want a mailer, Pine, MUT or something.
> 
> You'll want the stuff for your network card if you have one or the PPP
> stuff for dialup.  
> 
> That should do you, I think.  Have I forgotten anything, Buddy? 
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> -- 
> Ann K. Parsons  
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Greg. However, certain cards are only supported by Alsa. I was fortunate to be able to use a shell account, so I had some good unix knolige, just had to make it Linux-specific. Another difference is that now I administer my own system, so in a way it is different. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gregory Nowak <gnowak1@uic.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> I think that it isn't wise for a newby to start with alsa. I think newbys should start with the kernel sound drivers, and progress to alsa when they've gotten the hang of the various system components after a while.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:58:27PM -0400, Ann Parsons wrote:
> > Hi Buddy,
> > 
> > Nope, you explained it very well indeed.  Now, care to take the next
> > step, which I am not knowledgeable enough to try?  Send a short list
> > of the things that are *really* needed in a Linux installation.
> > 
> > Lemme see if I can start.  
> > 
> > First, you need the kernel.  
> > 
> > then you need some kind of editor, VI Emax whatever, an editor.  
> > 
> > You'll probably want the C libraries for yourself, or for anyone
> > tinkering on your system.
> > 
> > You'll want Lynx and its attendant libraries.
> > 
> > You'll want the curses stuff too.
> > 
> > You'll want the alsa stuff for your sound card and its attendant
> > stuff.
> > 
> > You'll want a mailer, Pine, MUT or something.
> > 
> > You'll want the stuff for your network card if you have one or the PPP
> > stuff for dialup.  
> > 
> > That should do you, I think.  Have I forgotten anything, Buddy? 
> > 
> > Ann P.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Ann K. Parsons  
> > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

I understand, and am probably much mistaken, as I have been corrected
affore, that RH relies more on graphics than does any of the other
distros.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Again, I started this here thread sayin' that I didn't think I was
knowledgeable enough to be sure of what I was talkin' about.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Cecil H. Whitley]

Hi,
First of all I need to declare my bias.  I selected redhat for my desktop.
Now, with that said I must also point out that I also use freebsd, solaris
(various versions) and even tried debian.  Why did I choose redhat?  Simple,
not very technical, I loaded it on servers at work because Dell supports it.
Since I have to work with it at work I might as well use it at home.

Redhat, and probably any distribution of linux can be cut down to a floppy.
You can't do that with windows.  In fact, NT/2000/xp take three/four disks
just to boot.  Linux also takes a lot less memory to run (and run well I
might add).  Redhat distributes several x-windows based front ends (Gnome,
KDE, windows maker, etc).  There is a lot of desktop dependant apps which
get loaded depending on which front-ends you choose to load.  The important
word there is choose.  You can load everything (an actual menu selection),
particular catagories, or individual packages.  I believe that this is the
same or similar in nearly all distro's.  The easiest way to trim the size of
any distribution is to not load x-windows.  That will drastically cut the
disk space requirements without removing any functionality you will need.

I guess the short answer is that yes, you can select for 3gb or more of
stuff to be loaded, but on windows you can get the same effect (with less
functionality) by loading the full operating system (not typical) and
netscape, m.s. office, Lotus smartsuite, Lotus Notes, your speech package,
Visual "c", Visual C++, CYGWIN, Photoshop, IIS, Exchange, SQL server, and
the list goes on and on.  The 5 CD's that make up the RedHat distribution
contains much much more than just an OS.  The same goes for Slackware,
Debian, and just about any other distribution of Linux (no offense to anyone
who's distribution didn't make it in my list, it's just my ignorance).

Regards,

Cecil

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Cecil. How have you used Freebsd and Solaris? Well I know a friend who actually has several Linux boxes and a Solaris machine. Did you use something like Yasr for running on Freebsd? You can reply to me off-list on this. But now you've got me interested! My address is igueths@attbi.com. Hope to hear from you regarding the Freebsd though. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Cecil H. Whitley <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> Hi,
> First of all I need to declare my bias.  I selected redhat for my desktop.
> Now, with that said I must also point out that I also use freebsd, solaris
> (various versions) and even tried debian.  Why did I choose redhat?  Simple,
> not very technical, I loaded it on servers at work because Dell supports it.
> Since I have to work with it at work I might as well use it at home.
> 
> Redhat, and probably any distribution of linux can be cut down to a floppy.
> You can't do that with windows.  In fact, NT/2000/xp take three/four disks
> just to boot.  Linux also takes a lot less memory to run (and run well I
> might add).  Redhat distributes several x-windows based front ends (Gnome,
> KDE, windows maker, etc).  There is a lot of desktop dependant apps which
> get loaded depending on which front-ends you choose to load.  The important
> word there is choose.  You can load everything (an actual menu selection),
> particular catagories, or individual packages.  I believe that this is the
> same or similar in nearly all distro's.  The easiest way to trim the size of
> any distribution is to not load x-windows.  That will drastically cut the
> disk space requirements without removing any functionality you will need.
> 
> I guess the short answer is that yes, you can select for 3gb or more of
> stuff to be loaded, but on windows you can get the same effect (with less
> functionality) by loading the full operating system (not typical) and
> netscape, m.s. office, Lotus smartsuite, Lotus Notes, your speech package,
> Visual "c", Visual C++, CYGWIN, Photoshop, IIS, Exchange, SQL server, and
> the list goes on and on.  The 5 CD's that make up the RedHat distribution
> contains much much more than just an OS.  The same goes for Slackware,
> Debian, and just about any other distribution of Linux (no offense to anyone
> who's distribution didn't make it in my list, it's just my ignorance).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Cecil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

Gcc 2.95.3 seems to be problem free as well.
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 04:55:48PM -0400, Igor Gueths wrote:
> Hi Ann. You did it fine. Also include the sources for your kernel, not just the compiled binaries so you can rebuild it if you require it. Also install gcc-2.95 not 3.0 or higher. This is because there are bugs in the linker which will break some packages I have tried to install. Ghostscript was one of these. I got gcc-2.95.2, got it up and running with no problems. Now just have to read the docs to figure out how to spool jobs to my hp printer. 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> 
> 
> > Hi Buddy,
> > 
> > Nope, you explained it very well indeed.  Now, care to take the next
> > step, which I am not knowledgeable enough to try?  Send a short list
> > of the things that are *really* needed in a Linux installation.
> > 
> > Lemme see if I can start.  
> > 
> > First, you need the kernel.  
> > 
> > then you need some kind of editor, VI Emax whatever, an editor.  
> > 
> > You'll probably want the C libraries for yourself, or for anyone
> > tinkering on your system.
> > 
> > You'll want Lynx and its attendant libraries.
> > 
> > You'll want the curses stuff too.
> > 
> > You'll want the alsa stuff for your sound card and its attendant
> > stuff.
> > 
> > You'll want a mailer, Pine, MUT or something.
> > 
> > You'll want the stuff for your network card if you have one or the PPP
> > stuff for dialup.  
> > 
> > That should do you, I think.  Have I forgotten anything, Buddy? 
> > 
> > Ann P.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Ann K. Parsons  
> > email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> > WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> > "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Few More questions!

[Cris Ali]

Thanks for all of you who replied to my inquiry about the amount of Hard
Disk space needed to install linux.  From the very many answers I received
so far, I got the impression that I can install a reasonably working
operating system on less than 1 Gig.  This is what I was hoping to hear.  It
means I won't need to buy a new hard disk.  However, I also learned that
there are different destribution packages to install from.  Four names were
mentioned, Slackware, Debian, Redhat, and Zipspeak.  My questions are:  Do
they all work fine with speak up?  Do they all allow for a full installation
from beginning to end without sighted help?  Where can I find a complete
list of what components I need to install, and what components to ignore?

On a different note, I am happy to recognize  atleast two names of old IRC
friends on this list; Bill Acker, and Raul.  If you remember cris from irc,
that's me.  I am glad to finally get a chance to get in touch and say hello
again.
Thanks for everyone who helped so far.  Your comments are extremely useful.
Regards,
Cris

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

Please reply to me as well, since I too am interested.
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:07:15PM -0400, Igor Gueths wrote:
> Hi Cecil. How have you used Freebsd and Solaris? Well I know a friend who actually has several Linux boxes and a Solaris machine. Did you use something like Yasr for running on Freebsd? You can reply to me off-list on this. But now you've got me interested! My address is igueths@attbi.com. Hope to hear from you regarding the Freebsd though. 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Cecil H. Whitley <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> > First of all I need to declare my bias.  I selected redhat for my desktop.
> > Now, with that said I must also point out that I also use freebsd, solaris
> > (various versions) and even tried debian.  Why did I choose redhat?  Simple,
> > not very technical, I loaded it on servers at work because Dell supports it.
> > Since I have to work with it at work I might as well use it at home.
> > 
> > Redhat, and probably any distribution of linux can be cut down to a floppy.
> > You can't do that with windows.  In fact, NT/2000/xp take three/four disks
> > just to boot.  Linux also takes a lot less memory to run (and run well I
> > might add).  Redhat distributes several x-windows based front ends (Gnome,
> > KDE, windows maker, etc).  There is a lot of desktop dependant apps which
> > get loaded depending on which front-ends you choose to load.  The important
> > word there is choose.  You can load everything (an actual menu selection),
> > particular catagories, or individual packages.  I believe that this is the
> > same or similar in nearly all distro's.  The easiest way to trim the size of
> > any distribution is to not load x-windows.  That will drastically cut the
> > disk space requirements without removing any functionality you will need.
> > 
> > I guess the short answer is that yes, you can select for 3gb or more of
> > stuff to be loaded, but on windows you can get the same effect (with less
> > functionality) by loading the full operating system (not typical) and
> > netscape, m.s. office, Lotus smartsuite, Lotus Notes, your speech package,
> > Visual "c", Visual C++, CYGWIN, Photoshop, IIS, Exchange, SQL server, and
> > the list goes on and on.  The 5 CD's that make up the RedHat distribution
> > contains much much more than just an OS.  The same goes for Slackware,
> > Debian, and just about any other distribution of Linux (no offense to anyone
> > who's distribution didn't make it in my list, it's just my ignorance).
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Cecil
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Cecil H. Whitley]

Hi,
Nothing fancy, just use ssh to connect remotely.  Also can use a terminal
program on the serial port if i'm desperate.
Cecil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


Hi Cecil. How have you used Freebsd and Solaris? Well I know a friend who
actually has several Linux boxes and a Solaris machine. Did you use
something like Yasr for running on Freebsd? You can reply to me off-list on
this. But now you've got me interested! My address is igueths@attbi.com.
Hope to hear from you regarding the Freebsd though.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cecil H. Whitley <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> Hi,
> First of all I need to declare my bias.  I selected redhat for my desktop.
> Now, with that said I must also point out that I also use freebsd, solaris
> (various versions) and even tried debian.  Why did I choose redhat?
Simple,
> not very technical, I loaded it on servers at work because Dell supports
it.
> Since I have to work with it at work I might as well use it at home.
>
> Redhat, and probably any distribution of linux can be cut down to a
floppy.
> You can't do that with windows.  In fact, NT/2000/xp take three/four disks
> just to boot.  Linux also takes a lot less memory to run (and run well I
> might add).  Redhat distributes several x-windows based front ends (Gnome,
> KDE, windows maker, etc).  There is a lot of desktop dependant apps which
> get loaded depending on which front-ends you choose to load.  The
important
> word there is choose.  You can load everything (an actual menu selection),
> particular catagories, or individual packages.  I believe that this is the
> same or similar in nearly all distro's.  The easiest way to trim the size
of
> any distribution is to not load x-windows.  That will drastically cut the
> disk space requirements without removing any functionality you will need.
>
> I guess the short answer is that yes, you can select for 3gb or more of
> stuff to be loaded, but on windows you can get the same effect (with less
> functionality) by loading the full operating system (not typical) and
> netscape, m.s. office, Lotus smartsuite, Lotus Notes, your speech package,
> Visual "c", Visual C++, CYGWIN, Photoshop, IIS, Exchange, SQL server, and
> the list goes on and on.  The 5 CD's that make up the RedHat distribution
> contains much much more than just an OS.  The same goes for Slackware,
> Debian, and just about any other distribution of Linux (no offense to
anyone
> who's distribution didn't make it in my list, it's just my ignorance).
>
> Regards,
>
> Cecil
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Few More questions!

[Alex Snow]

From: "Cris Ali" <filastin48@hotmail.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:11 PM
Subject: Few More questions!


> Thanks for all of you who replied to my inquiry about the amount of Hard
> Disk space needed to install linux.  From the very many answers I received
> so far, I got the impression that I can install a reasonably working
> operating system on less than 1 Gig.  This is what I was hoping to hear.
It
> means I won't need to buy a new hard disk.  However, I also learned that
> there are different destribution packages to install from.  Four names
were
> mentioned, Slackware, Debian, Redhat, and Zipspeak.  My questions are:  Do
> they all work fine with speak up?
Yes.  Zipspeak is a minidistribution of slackware that runs on a current
msdos/winblows system.  It has speakup built into the kernel.  Debian works
with speakup, so does redhat.  Slackware comes with speakup already compiled
into the kernel.  Redhat and debian need special bootdisks I think.
 eeven   Do they all allow for a full installation
> >from beginning to end without sighted help?
For the most part.  I've heard that redhat is a little flacky, something
about the disk druid utilody.  One of you red hat people could probably
clear that up.  Al the others seem fine.
  Where can I find a complete
> list of what components I need to install, and what components to ignore?
Depends on what you want.  If your a programmer, you want all the compiler
and lib stuff.  If you want to screw around with xwindows when the
accessibility stuf is released later this year, you'll need to install it.

>
> On a different note, I am happy to recognize  atleast two names of old IRC
> friends on this list; Bill Acker, and Raul.  If you remember cris from
irc,
> that's me.  I am glad to finally get a chance to get in touch and say
hello
> again.
> Thanks for everyone who helped so far.  Your comments are extremely
useful.
> Regards,
> Cris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Alex Snow]

Also reply to me
alex_snow@gmx.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> Please reply to me as well, since I too am interested.
> Greg
>
>
> On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:07:15PM -0400, Igor Gueths wrote:
> > Hi Cecil. How have you used Freebsd and Solaris? Well I know a friend
who actually has several Linux boxes and a Solaris machine. Did you use
something like Yasr for running on Freebsd? You can reply to me off-list on
this. But now you've got me interested! My address is igueths@attbi.com.
Hope to hear from you regarding the Freebsd though.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cecil H. Whitley <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > First of all I need to declare my bias.  I selected redhat for my
desktop.
> > > Now, with that said I must also point out that I also use freebsd,
solaris
> > > (various versions) and even tried debian.  Why did I choose redhat?
Simple,
> > > not very technical, I loaded it on servers at work because Dell
supports it.
> > > Since I have to work with it at work I might as well use it at home.
> > >
> > > Redhat, and probably any distribution of linux can be cut down to a
floppy.
> > > You can't do that with windows.  In fact, NT/2000/xp take three/four
disks
> > > just to boot.  Linux also takes a lot less memory to run (and run well
I
> > > might add).  Redhat distributes several x-windows based front ends
(Gnome,
> > > KDE, windows maker, etc).  There is a lot of desktop dependant apps
which
> > > get loaded depending on which front-ends you choose to load.  The
important
> > > word there is choose.  You can load everything (an actual menu
selection),
> > > particular catagories, or individual packages.  I believe that this is
the
> > > same or similar in nearly all distro's.  The easiest way to trim the
size of
> > > any distribution is to not load x-windows.  That will drastically cut
the
> > > disk space requirements without removing any functionality you will
need.
> > >
> > > I guess the short answer is that yes, you can select for 3gb or more
of
> > > stuff to be loaded, but on windows you can get the same effect (with
less
> > > functionality) by loading the full operating system (not typical) and
> > > netscape, m.s. office, Lotus smartsuite, Lotus Notes, your speech
package,
> > > Visual "c", Visual C++, CYGWIN, Photoshop, IIS, Exchange, SQL server,
and
> > > the list goes on and on.  The 5 CD's that make up the RedHat
distribution
> > > contains much much more than just an OS.  The same goes for Slackware,
> > > Debian, and just about any other distribution of Linux (no offense to
anyone
> > > who's distribution didn't make it in my list, it's just my ignorance).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Cecil
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Few More questions!

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Yes Cris now I remember your last name which to me sounded familiar.
Talk about reunions.  Those wer the days when I used irc from a netcom
shell and Bill Acker used ibm's OS to get into netcom as well.  Nice to
remember you, irc is still used and I still se it.  Hope your hunting
goes well.  If you get slackware it comes with a speakup kernel all
ready to go.  Bill Acker has also provided redhat installation with
speakup compiled into the kernel as well.  And let's see, Frank has
provided disks for Debian.  On top of all that there are the other ways
you can get linux working.  To answer your question it does not matter
which Linux you use as speakup is a part of the kernel which will run
any distribution of Linux.

-- 
If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Alex Snow]

And if you find that you need something after you've installed the thing,
It's not that hard to modify the installed packages.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:50 PM
Subject: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> Hi all,
>
> Well, if you go with Red Hat, what do you expect?  Also, you do not
> need to install *everything* on your hard drive at all!  I dunnow
> about RH, but Debian gives you an option where you can select the
> packages you want to install.  The X stuff you don't need yet, so
> dispense with it.  Some of the other stuff you may not need either.
> I'm sure someone here can help you to determine just what you do and
> don't need to install.
>
> Red Hat may have an install program for folks who want to do it
> manually instead of installing the whole kitten-kabootle.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Alex Snow]

Yes.  My linux box has 1 240 mb hard drive in it.  It really sux, but at
least I got linux.  You can install a pretty full install and still have
room to play with.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cris Ali" <filastin48@hotmail.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:16 PM
Subject: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> Hi Folks,
> I was surprised to learn that installing linux requires more than three
gigs
> of hard disk space, 20 times more than windows98.  If i am to install it
on
> my retired 90 mhz pentium, i have to buy a new hard disk.  This machine
has
> two hard disks, one is 2.2 gigs, and the second is only 320 megs.  Is it
> possible to have a small installation of linux, at least to learn how to
use
> this system?  Secondly, does anyone know a good place to buy inexpensive
> hard drives that would be competibile with old computers?
> Cheers,
> Cris Ali
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Few More questions!

[Gregory Nowak]

The answer to your first 2 questions is yes.
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:11:38PM -0400, Cris Ali wrote:
> Thanks for all of you who replied to my inquiry about the amount of Hard
> Disk space needed to install linux.  From the very many answers I received
> so far, I got the impression that I can install a reasonably working
> operating system on less than 1 Gig.  This is what I was hoping to hear.  It
> means I won't need to buy a new hard disk.  However, I also learned that
> there are different destribution packages to install from.  Four names were
> mentioned, Slackware, Debian, Redhat, and Zipspeak.  My questions are:  Do
> they all work fine with speak up?  Do they all allow for a full installation
> from beginning to end without sighted help?  Where can I find a complete
> list of what components I need to install, and what components to ignore?
> 
> On a different note, I am happy to recognize  atleast two names of old IRC
> friends on this list; Bill Acker, and Raul.  If you remember cris from irc,
> that's me.  I am glad to finally get a chance to get in touch and say hello
> again.
> Thanks for everyone who helped so far.  Your comments are extremely useful.
> Regards,
> Cris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

How do you do the install? Through a serial console?
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 05:19:00PM -0400, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> Hi,
> Nothing fancy, just use ssh to connect remotely.  Also can use a terminal
> program on the serial port if i'm desperate.
> Cecil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> 
> 
> Hi Cecil. How have you used Freebsd and Solaris? Well I know a friend who
> actually has several Linux boxes and a Solaris machine. Did you use
> something like Yasr for running on Freebsd? You can reply to me off-list on
> this. But now you've got me interested! My address is igueths@attbi.com.
> Hope to hear from you regarding the Freebsd though.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cecil H. Whitley <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> > First of all I need to declare my bias.  I selected redhat for my desktop.
> > Now, with that said I must also point out that I also use freebsd, solaris
> > (various versions) and even tried debian.  Why did I choose redhat?
> Simple,
> > not very technical, I loaded it on servers at work because Dell supports
> it.
> > Since I have to work with it at work I might as well use it at home.
> >
> > Redhat, and probably any distribution of linux can be cut down to a
> floppy.
> > You can't do that with windows.  In fact, NT/2000/xp take three/four disks
> > just to boot.  Linux also takes a lot less memory to run (and run well I
> > might add).  Redhat distributes several x-windows based front ends (Gnome,
> > KDE, windows maker, etc).  There is a lot of desktop dependant apps which
> > get loaded depending on which front-ends you choose to load.  The
> important
> > word there is choose.  You can load everything (an actual menu selection),
> > particular catagories, or individual packages.  I believe that this is the
> > same or similar in nearly all distro's.  The easiest way to trim the size
> of
> > any distribution is to not load x-windows.  That will drastically cut the
> > disk space requirements without removing any functionality you will need.
> >
> > I guess the short answer is that yes, you can select for 3gb or more of
> > stuff to be loaded, but on windows you can get the same effect (with less
> > functionality) by loading the full operating system (not typical) and
> > netscape, m.s. office, Lotus smartsuite, Lotus Notes, your speech package,
> > Visual "c", Visual C++, CYGWIN, Photoshop, IIS, Exchange, SQL server, and
> > the list goes on and on.  The 5 CD's that make up the RedHat distribution
> > contains much much more than just an OS.  The same goes for Slackware,
> > Debian, and just about any other distribution of Linux (no offense to
> anyone
> > who's distribution didn't make it in my list, it's just my ignorance).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cecil
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Cecil. So you used a terminal program to echo output to a dectalk
express? How then did you review the screen? I suppose the terminal
program had review keys possibly?

Gates go to hell, your OS is waiting for you there!

On Wed, 8 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:

> Hi,
> Nothing fancy, just use ssh to connect remotely.  Also can use a terminal
> program on the serial port if i'm desperate.
> Cecil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
>
>
> Hi Cecil. How have you used Freebsd and Solaris? Well I know a friend who
> actually has several Linux boxes and a Solaris machine. Did you use
> something like Yasr for running on Freebsd? You can reply to me off-list on
> this. But now you've got me interested! My address is igueths@attbi.com.
> Hope to hear from you regarding the Freebsd though.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cecil H. Whitley <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
>
>
> > Hi,
> > First of all I need to declare my bias.  I selected redhat for my desktop.
> > Now, with that said I must also point out that I also use freebsd, solaris
> > (various versions) and even tried debian.  Why did I choose redhat?
> Simple,
> > not very technical, I loaded it on servers at work because Dell supports
> it.
> > Since I have to work with it at work I might as well use it at home.
> >
> > Redhat, and probably any distribution of linux can be cut down to a
> floppy.
> > You can't do that with windows.  In fact, NT/2000/xp take three/four disks
> > just to boot.  Linux also takes a lot less memory to run (and run well I
> > might add).  Redhat distributes several x-windows based front ends (Gnome,
> > KDE, windows maker, etc).  There is a lot of desktop dependant apps which
> > get loaded depending on which front-ends you choose to load.  The
> important
> > word there is choose.  You can load everything (an actual menu selection),
> > particular catagories, or individual packages.  I believe that this is the
> > same or similar in nearly all distro's.  The easiest way to trim the size
> of
> > any distribution is to not load x-windows.  That will drastically cut the
> > disk space requirements without removing any functionality you will need.
> >
> > I guess the short answer is that yes, you can select for 3gb or more of
> > stuff to be loaded, but on windows you can get the same effect (with less
> > functionality) by loading the full operating system (not typical) and
> > netscape, m.s. office, Lotus smartsuite, Lotus Notes, your speech package,
> > Visual "c", Visual C++, CYGWIN, Photoshop, IIS, Exchange, SQL server, and
> > the list goes on and on.  The 5 CD's that make up the RedHat distribution
> > contains much much more than just an OS.  The same goes for Slackware,
> > Debian, and just about any other distribution of Linux (no offense to
> anyone
> > who's distribution didn't make it in my list, it's just my ignorance).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cecil
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Alex Snow]

Hi All,
What terminal are you using?  I am interested in trying bsd, and want to use
a terminal to review the screen.
Thanks,
Alex Snow
P.S.
Igor: Like your tag-line.  I can't help but aggree!
The two words that will save microsoft are "OPEN SOURCE!"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> Hi Cecil. So you used a terminal program to echo output to a dectalk
> express? How then did you review the screen? I suppose the terminal
> program had review keys possibly?
>
> Gates go to hell, your OS is waiting for you there!
>
> On Wed, 8 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > Nothing fancy, just use ssh to connect remotely.  Also can use a
terminal
> > program on the serial port if i'm desperate.
> > Cecil
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> >
> >
> > Hi Cecil. How have you used Freebsd and Solaris? Well I know a friend
who
> > actually has several Linux boxes and a Solaris machine. Did you use
> > something like Yasr for running on Freebsd? You can reply to me off-list
on
> > this. But now you've got me interested! My address is igueths@attbi.com.
> > Hope to hear from you regarding the Freebsd though.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cecil H. Whitley <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 5:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > First of all I need to declare my bias.  I selected redhat for my
desktop.
> > > Now, with that said I must also point out that I also use freebsd,
solaris
> > > (various versions) and even tried debian.  Why did I choose redhat?
> > Simple,
> > > not very technical, I loaded it on servers at work because Dell
supports
> > it.
> > > Since I have to work with it at work I might as well use it at home.
> > >
> > > Redhat, and probably any distribution of linux can be cut down to a
> > floppy.
> > > You can't do that with windows.  In fact, NT/2000/xp take three/four
disks
> > > just to boot.  Linux also takes a lot less memory to run (and run well
I
> > > might add).  Redhat distributes several x-windows based front ends
(Gnome,
> > > KDE, windows maker, etc).  There is a lot of desktop dependant apps
which
> > > get loaded depending on which front-ends you choose to load.  The
> > important
> > > word there is choose.  You can load everything (an actual menu
selection),
> > > particular catagories, or individual packages.  I believe that this is
the
> > > same or similar in nearly all distro's.  The easiest way to trim the
size
> > of
> > > any distribution is to not load x-windows.  That will drastically cut
the
> > > disk space requirements without removing any functionality you will
need.
> > >
> > > I guess the short answer is that yes, you can select for 3gb or more
of
> > > stuff to be loaded, but on windows you can get the same effect (with
less
> > > functionality) by loading the full operating system (not typical) and
> > > netscape, m.s. office, Lotus smartsuite, Lotus Notes, your speech
package,
> > > Visual "c", Visual C++, CYGWIN, Photoshop, IIS, Exchange, SQL server,
and
> > > the list goes on and on.  The 5 CD's that make up the RedHat
distribution
> > > contains much much more than just an OS.  The same goes for Slackware,
> > > Debian, and just about any other distribution of Linux (no offense to
> > anyone
> > > who's distribution didn't make it in my list, it's just my ignorance).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Cecil
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Few More questions!

[Igor Gueths]

Hi all. Speaking of maintanace of distros, I am aware of the fact that the
Debian isos are not up to date with the latest kernel. The Speakup iso
that is. Is anyone maintaining that? Possibly Bill? Because what I was
thinking is that if not, me and a friend of mine are interested in
updating the iso. Please get back to me on this. I will be glad to try and
help out, but I just want to know if someone is actively maintaining the
images.

Gates go to hell, your OS is waiting for you there!

On Wed, 8 May 2002, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

> Yes Cris now I remember your last name which to me sounded familiar.
> Talk about reunions.  Those wer the days when I used irc from a netcom
> shell and Bill Acker used ibm's OS to get into netcom as well.  Nice to
> remember you, irc is still used and I still se it.  Hope your hunting
> goes well.  If you get slackware it comes with a speakup kernel all
> ready to go.  Bill Acker has also provided redhat installation with
> speakup compiled into the kernel as well.  And let's see, Frank has
> provided disks for Debian.  On top of all that there are the other ways
> you can get linux working.  To answer your question it does not matter
> which Linux you use as speakup is a part of the kernel which will run
> any distribution of Linux.
>
> --
> If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can
> go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way will promptly develop.
> Raul A. Gallegos - http://www.asmodean.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Kerry Hoath]

Let's eliminate some confusion here.
If you want to install redhat with the typical default set of stuff
and both gnome and kde
and all the office stuff and netscape etc etc it does take 3gb.
Now that is also to say that if you do a typical install of Windows XP
it'll take 1.5gb of disk + whatever you want for an office package.
You can of course install Redhat in 150 megs and Windows in 300
megs by selecting _custom_ and eliminating the stuff you don't need/want.
If you are a power user and once you know what you are up to, you can get
Linux into about 40-80 megs if you either roll your won or
use linuxfromscratch etc but you pay a price by not having a package manager.

Regards, Kerry.
On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 09:31:25PM +0100, 'Georgina' wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Well while everyone is going off in their own little worlds, allow me to
> answer your questions.  As you've seen people are sensative over their
> preferred distribution.
> 
> You do not need to buy a new disk for your machine.  Interestingly,
> where did you hear about GNU/Linux needing 3 Gb?
> 
> All you'll need is a hardware synthesiser if you want to ge the speakup
> route or get some sighted help to install emacspeak with via voice.
> Gena
> 
> 
> 
> Blindness Advocacy and Self Help Online www.bashonline.org
> 
> >Hi Folks,
> >I was surprised to learn that installing linux requires more than three gigs
> >of hard disk space, 20 times more than windows98.  If i am to install it on
> >my retired 90 mhz pentium, i have to buy a new hard disk.  This machine has
> >two hard disks, one is 2.2 gigs, and the second is only 320 megs.  Is it
> >possible to have a small installation of linux, at least to learn how to use
> >this system?  Secondly, does anyone know a good place to buy inexpensive
> >hard drives that would be competibile with old computers?
> >Cheers,
> >Cris Ali
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
ICQ: 8226547 msn: kerry@gotss.net Yahoo: kerryhoath@yahoo.com.au

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 8 May 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi Buddy,
>
> Nope, you explained it very well indeed.  Now, care to take the next
> step, which I am not knowledgeable enough to try?  Send a short list
> of the things that are *really* needed in a Linux installation.

Well guys, while your suggestions are great, I would like to add some
things.

First, I think Chris said that his space is limitted.  Also, I believe his
first question was basically which distribution to go for.  Given his hd
space restriction, I do not believe that Redhat, with its limitted
installation options, is the best option here, since the workstation
option does not contain several key packages, and the server install will
be too large.  I would recommend Slackware.  First of all, it is possible
to specify the packages required in several ways, and it can be simply
done to save quite a lot of space.

For example:
When presented with a list of categories, (disk sets of old) you should
choooose the following:

Select the a series, you need that, can under no circumstances do with out
it:
You can also select the defaults in the ap series, as well as the d
series.
Unless you really want Emacs for emacs-speak or other additions, you can
ignore this one and uncheck it entirely.
You'll want the f series, and the k series, as well as the n series.
The t series, well I'm not sure so installed it anyway, the x, xd, kde, g
and xap series you don't want because these are responsible for the
Xwindows system, which is not currently accessible.  Finally there's the y
series, which is a load of games and other small utils, it's only about 12
mb so you might as well go for it.

I've recently done this install myself on my lap top, I don't think it's
over 500 mb and I won't have to add to it much.  When you get to the
prompting options, choose the option to install groups of packages and
just press enter at each category to accept the defaults, and while
they're installing you can read a little about each package.  If you
select install everything, even if you've not selected all categories, it
will install everything, about 1.9 gb.  Imho it's the only annoying
feature of the Slackware install utility.

Oh yes, and Slackware includes a speakup-enabled kernel from which you can
make a boot disk on the cdrom.
Oh yes, and I almost forgot, if that all seems too complicated, and you
want to keep your Windoze system around for a while, you could always
install zipspeak, which expands to about 100 megs.

 Good luck.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 8 May 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I understand, and am probably much mistaken, as I have been corrected
> affore, that RH relies more on graphics than does any of the other
> distros.

If you think about it, because RH is the one that is used commercially,
for the most part, by people with users to support, then the users are
happier ith the gui, so the gui they get, we may not like it but it's a
fact of life.


Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Buddy Brannan]

Hi Toby,

Wow...OK, so what is it? Does Speakup, or does GNU/Linux, attract
hams? Seems we have a disproportionately large number of 'em on this
list. (Yes, here we go again...but I just noticed the callsign in the
Email address...)

Vy 73, de KB5ELV
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
                         | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123]

On Fri, 10 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:

> Well guys, while your suggestions are great, I would like to add some
> things.
> 
> First, I think Chris said that his space is limitted.  Also, I believe his
> first question was basically which distribution to go for.  Given his hd
> space restriction, I do not believe that Redhat, with its limitted
> installation options, is the best option here, since the workstation
> option does not contain several key packages, and the server install will
> be too large.

     Limited installation options?  How?  Actually, the server option is
probably best for a text only installation.  Tell us all about your vast
experience with RedHat, Toby.




          73.
          Bill in Denver

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Buddy, I think it's because we're already used to tinkering and
experimenting with untrodden paths and methods for getting things
done.    We're also used to communicating with others and computers is
an easy step from radio.  I've noticed a great many hams are involved
in Linux.  There aren't so many involved in the Windows game.  I think
it's because there's no room for individualization, no
experimentation, no challenge to the brain.    Everything is done for
you and there's not much you can do outside the pale.  Dunnow if
that's all true, but it's what comes to mind at the moment.  

73.s,
Ann P., n2gsx


-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Uh-oh, Bill's on the warpath again.  Trouble is, Bill, some of us,
like me, tried RH back say three years ago when these things were
true.  I guess they aren't now.  

73.s,
Ann P., n2gsx

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[TALMAGE]

Hi,

What do you mean by limited installation options?
When installing Red Hat you can choose either workstation, server, or custom.
The custom method of course provides the most flex ability, and any can be
done in text mode, and via a serial console or locally.

Dave

At 04:08 AM 5/10/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Well guys, while your suggestions are great, I would like to add some
>things.
>
>First, I think Chris said that his space is limitted.  Also, I believe his
>first question was basically which distribution to go for.  Given his hd
>space restriction, I do not believe that Redhat, with its limitted
>installation options, is the best option here, since the workstation
>option does not contain several key packages, and the server install will
>be too large.  I would recommend Slackware.  First of all, it is possible
>to specify the packages required in several ways, and it can be simply
>done to save quite a lot of space.
>
>For example:
>When presented with a list of categories, (disk sets of old) you should
>choooose the following:
>
>Select the a series, you need that, can under no circumstances do with out
>it:
>You can also select the defaults in the ap series, as well as the d
>series.
>Unless you really want Emacs for emacs-speak or other additions, you can
>ignore this one and uncheck it entirely.
>You'll want the f series, and the k series, as well as the n series.
>The t series, well I'm not sure so installed it anyway, the x, xd, kde, g
>and xap series you don't want because these are responsible for the
>Xwindows system, which is not currently accessible.  Finally there's the y
>series, which is a load of games and other small utils, it's only about 12
>mb so you might as well go for it.
>
>I've recently done this install myself on my lap top, I don't think it's
>over 500 mb and I won't have to add to it much.  When you get to the
>prompting options, choose the option to install groups of packages and
>just press enter at each category to accept the defaults, and while
>they're installing you can read a little about each package.  If you
>select install everything, even if you've not selected all categories, it
>will install everything, about 1.9 gb.  Imho it's the only annoying
>feature of the Slackware install utility.
>
>Oh yes, and Slackware includes a speakup-enabled kernel from which you can
>make a boot disk on the cdrom.
>Oh yes, and I almost forgot, if that all seems too complicated, and you
>want to keep your Windoze system around for a while, you could always
>install zipspeak, which expands to about 100 megs.
>
> Good luck.
>
>-- 
>Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
>Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
>ICQ: #61744808
>   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[TALMAGE]

Hi,

Yes Red Hat provides a good deal of GUI related apps, but they still have
the text based apps as well.  This just provides flex ability for the end
users.  The 1 pitfall here however is due to the gui apps and the numerous
languages supported by the Red Hat installation set, have swelled it to a 4
disk set.

Dave

At 04:16 AM 5/10/02 +0100, you wrote:
>If you think about it, because RH is the one that is used commercially,
>for the most part, by people with users to support, then the users are
>happier ith the gui, so the gui they get, we may not like it but it's a
>fact of life.
>
>
>Cheers.
>
>-- 
>Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
>Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
>ICQ: #61744808
>   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[TALMAGE]

Hi,

I have to agree with Bill here.  The first version of Red Hat I installed
was V5.1 and that would have been 3 or 4 years ago, and I didn't have any
trouble then either.

Dave

At 07:59 AM 5/10/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Uh-oh, Bill's on the warpath again.  Trouble is, Bill, some of us,
>like me, tried RH back say three years ago when these things were
>true.  I guess they aren't now.  
>
>73.s,
>Ann P., n2gsx
>
>-- 
>			Ann K. Parsons  
>email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
>WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
>"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[jwantz]

Hi Ann amd Toby,
Ann, Bill Acker has told you this--and apparently you didn't fully 
believe him.  Redhat has a full text mode installation option--I don't 
know how more plain this statement can be.  Secondly, you can do a 
custom installation with Redhat which is neither Workstation or Server.  
I think its unfair to tar Redhat because you had bad experiences with 
versions many revisions back.

    Jim
On Fri, 10 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:

> On Wed, 8 May 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I understand, and am probably much mistaken, as I have been corrected
> > affore, that RH relies more on graphics than does any of the other
> > distros.
> 
> If you think about it, because RH is the one that is used commercially,
> for the most part, by people with users to support, then the users are
> happier ith the gui, so the gui they get, we may not like it but it's a
> fact of life.
> 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

<smile>  I done said that, already.  I said I had a bad experience
sometime back, and was pretty sure I was mistaken about what I knew.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Thu, 9 May 2002, William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-777-8123 wrote:

> On Fri, 10 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:
>
> > Well guys, while your suggestions are great, I would like to add some
> > things.
> >
> > First, I think Chris said that his space is limitted.  Also, I believe his
> > first question was basically which distribution to go for.  Given his hd
> > space restriction, I do not believe that Redhat, with its limitted
> > installation options, is the best option here, since the workstation
> > option does not contain several key packages, and the server install will
> > be too large.
>
>      Limited installation options?  How?  Actually, the server option is
> probably best for a text only installation.  Tell us all about your vast
> experience with RedHat, Toby.

Hey, easy, I have used Redhat in a commercial setting, and have stated
elsewhere in this thread that it has its uses and place, and what my
opinions are.  If you look at my posts, I do not attempt to make any
definitive statements regarding RH, only what I have gleened from my own
experiences and this list.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 TALMAGE@somtel.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have to agree with Bill here.  The first version of Red Hat I installed
> was V5.1 and that would have been 3 or 4 years ago, and I didn't have any
> trouble then either.

Um, now there I *would* have to disagree.  I was using it commerically
back then, and we actually ditched it because every tarball we downloaded
from the internet with few exceptions would not compile on RH5.0 and 5.1,
and sometimes even on 5.2 because of broken c libraries - this was
confirmed hen I sent the compile errors to software authors, not necessary
Linux advocates, just those who had ported their BSD etc apps to Linux.

It may well have changed now, Jees I hope it has.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 TALMAGE@somtel.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What do you mean by limited installation options?
> When installing Red Hat you can choose either workstation, server, or custom.
> The custom method of course provides the most flex ability, and any can be
> done in text mode, and via a serial console or locally.

Ok, maybe someone can answer this because I'm genuinely curious.

When in custom mode, how much guidance do you get?  I mean, I've already
talked about the Slackware method of dividing packages up into categories,
or used to be called disk sets for the days when that would work.  I find
this incredibly useful and a massive time-saver.  Btw, you can still
install the A series to flopppies if you want, according to the docs, to
get your system up and running.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Fri, 10 May 2002 TALMAGE@somtel.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Yes Red Hat provides a good deal of GUI related apps, but they still have
> the text based apps as well.  This just provides flex ability for the end
> users.  The 1 pitfall here however is due to the gui apps and the numerous
> languages supported by the Red Hat installation set, have swelled it to a 4
> disk set.

Whereas Slackware only *requires* 1 cd, yes, you can get all 5, but you
only need 1.  Look, as has been stated, this is pointless, because nobody,
or almost nobody, is going to be persuaded by this argument to change
distros, I certainly won't, so apart from correct inaccuracies, what's the
point?  Yes, I know, I've got it wrong too.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Thu, 9 May 2002, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> Hi Toby,
>
> Wow...OK, so what is it? Does Speakup, or does GNU/Linux, attract
> hams? Seems we have a disproportionately large number of 'em on this
> list. (Yes, here we go again...but I just noticed the callsign in the
> Email address...)

As Ann has already said, we're tinkerers basically.

Actually, I have to thank the hobby for getting me into Linux back in
1995.  I joined the university radio club, where many of the members were
linux users, and we used to have the great Alan Cox as a member, anyone
who's analysed much kernel code, particularly on the networking side, will
know that name.  That meant that I had some great tutors.  The radio shack
was 160 feet above the ground on the roof of the engineering building, and
we had 2 linux boxes up there, the main server was a 386 DX20 with 2 170
mb hard disks, 8 mb ram, 14 mb swap, and it supported about a dozen users
for mail, http and loads of other stuff, as well as a packet radio node,
pop3, smtp and http servers, and loads of other things I didn't worry
about at the time.  Sometimes, I used to go up there with my lap top
running NCSA Telnet and connect using plip to that box, as the guys had
rebuilt the kernel to enable me to do it.  That machine was the only
accessible pc on the whole campus, oh yes, and after a while I was given a
key so I could go up there whenever I wanted.  Oh those were great times,
with our FT767GX and button vertical, what pile-ups!! *sigh*

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

Oh yeah, and for those who may not have figured yet, I was at Swansea
University, and yes, I was a member of the computer society as well, which
is creditted every time you boot your network-enabled kernel, though I
wasn't involved in the code development.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Alex Snow]

Slackware only has three CDs, install.iso, extra.iso, and source.iso.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Toby Fisher" <toby_fisher@bigfoot.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


> On Fri, 10 May 2002 TALMAGE@somtel.com wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Yes Red Hat provides a good deal of GUI related apps, but they still
have
> > the text based apps as well.  This just provides flex ability for the
end
> > users.  The 1 pitfall here however is due to the gui apps and the
numerous
> > languages supported by the Red Hat installation set, have swelled it to
a 4
> > disk set.
>
> Whereas Slackware only *requires* 1 cd, yes, you can get all 5, but you
> only need 1.  Look, as has been stated, this is pointless, because nobody,
> or almost nobody, is going to be persuaded by this argument to change
> distros, I certainly won't, so apart from correct inaccuracies, what's the
> point?  Yes, I know, I've got it wrong too.
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
> Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
> ICQ: #61744808
>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Sat, 11 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> Slackware only has three CDs, install.iso, extra.iso, and source.iso.

Hmm, well it's been a lot of years since I've actually used a full distro,
usually just grab what I need from the net, but ther used to be 4 I think,
there was also a sources disk, with the sources for all the packages, all
the scripts they used and everything.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Charles Hallenbeck]

There are still four disks.

On Sun, 12 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:

> On Sat, 11 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
>
> > Slackware only has three CDs, install.iso, extra.iso, and source.iso.
>
> Hmm, well it's been a lot of years since I've actually used a full distro,
> usually just grab what I need from the net, but ther used to be 4 I think,
> there was also a sources disk, with the sources for all the packages, all
> the scripts they used and everything.
>
> Cheers.
>
>

-- 
Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is New

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

Where do you get the 4th one? There are only 3 images for slackware 8.0 on slackware's site.
Greg


On Sun, May 12, 2002 at 12:29:12PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> There are still four disks.
> 
> On Sun, 12 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 11 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
> >
> > > Slackware only has three CDs, install.iso, extra.iso, and source.iso.
> >
> > Hmm, well it's been a lot of years since I've actually used a full distro,
> > usually just grab what I need from the net, but ther used to be 4 I think,
> > there was also a sources disk, with the sources for all the packages, all
> > the scripts they used and everything.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is New
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Charles Hallenbeck]

I bought mine from the Slackware Store online and there were
four. Same as for the earlier versions, 7.0 and 7.1.

On Sun, 12 May 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Where do you get the 4th one? There are only 3 images for slackware 8.0 on slackware's site.
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, May 12, 2002 at 12:29:12PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > There are still four disks.
> >
> > On Sun, 12 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 11 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
> > >
> > > > Slackware only has three CDs, install.iso, extra.iso, and source.iso.
> > >
> > > Hmm, well it's been a lot of years since I've actually used a full distro,
> > > usually just grab what I need from the net, but ther used to be 4 I think,
> > > there was also a sources disk, with the sources for all the packages, all
> > > the scripts they used and everything.
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> > The Moon is New
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is New

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Adam Myrow]

If you buy Slackware directly from the web site, you get a fourth CD
called "live."  It's basically a full Linux on CD for demos and what they
call "the ultimate rescue disk."  Other than that, there are only 3 CDS
and you really only need the install one and there are a few interesting
things on contrib.  Oh, Slackware 8.1 is in beta now and it looks like
it's ballooned to 2 CDS.  They are adding some stuff like Logrotate and it
will come with kernel 2.4.18 unless a newer one comes out before it does.

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Steve Holmes]

I only found 3 disks while going after 8.0 last summer.

On Sun, May 12, 2002 at 12:29:12PM -0400, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> There are still four disks.
> 
> On Sun, 12 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 11 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
> >
> > > Slackware only has three CDs, install.iso, extra.iso, and source.iso.
> >
> > Hmm, well it's been a lot of years since I've actually used a full distro,
> > usually just grab what I need from the net, but ther used to be 4 I think,
> > there was also a sources disk, with the sources for all the packages, all
> > the scripts they used and everything.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is New
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Steve Holmes]

<Hmmmm> I wonder if I should look into bundling spekup with it.  Raul
worked on the 2.2.19 deal last summer but I could start looking at the
config file they use for default and push speakup into it before.
That's been a big help for me even.

On Sun, May 12, 2002 at 12:35:37PM -0500, Adam Myrow wrote:
> If you buy Slackware directly from the web site, you get a fourth CD
> called "live."  It's basically a full Linux on CD for demos and what they
> call "the ultimate rescue disk."  Other than that, there are only 3 CDS
> and you really only need the install one and there are a few interesting
> things on contrib.  Oh, Slackware 8.1 is in beta now and it looks like
> it's ballooned to 2 CDS.  They are adding some stuff like Logrotate and it
> will come with kernel 2.4.18 unless a newer one comes out before it does.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[cwhitley]

C'mon guys!
I'm not here to get or defend my religeon.  I'm here for usefull information
and maybe to help someone else if I can.  So, with that in mind I would like
to suggest the following for loading a RH install (suggestions for other
distro's welcome!).

I feel your best course for cutting the distro down to a reasonable size
would be to do a custom install.  Select such things as networking, any
servers you need (ftp, http, etc), and deselect the "fluff" like gnome and
kde, etc.  It is probably a good idea to include either both software dev
and kernel dev unless you aren't any sort of programmer in which case drop
the software dev.  At the next screen select the "no x-windows" install
(which should drop "x" and all packages which have "x" as a dependancy. 
This should cut it back to a text mode only load significantly cutting the
disk space requirements.  Bill or others, please correct me if the "no x"
option doesn't drop all the x related packages.

Since there is a known issue with the installer in 7.3 you may wish to
consider loading 7.1 or 7.2 for the initial install.  You can then run
up2date for the latest packages in that series or you can get 7.3 and select
upgrade for the install.  

All the above information is provided because that is my knowledge base.  If
you are interested in obtaining and installing some other distribution I am
quite sure that someone on this list whom has worked with it would be more
than glad to provide helpfull suggestions and guidance.


I am not an expert at RedHat or any other flavor of linux.  I am not willing
to go out on a limb and tell you that any particular distro is better than
any other.  I am willing to share with you my personal experience and
knowledge (if I have any) so that some day you can do the same for me or
someone else.  

I'm through preaching now.
Cecil

RE: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 8 May 2002, Dawes, Stephen wrote:

> Let's not get into distribution wars again.
>
> You can install as little or as much of Redhat as you like. It is no
> different then any other distribution in that respect. One of the bigger
> differences between distributions is the package manager. A number of
> distributions including RedHat use RPM as the package manager.
> Similarly, Debian, and I am sure others, use APT, or whatever it is
> called, as their package manager. Granted they are other differences
> between distributions, that I won't get into in this note because I
> don't know of them all. What I will say though, is that before slamming
> a one distribution over another, maybe take a step back and think of the
> other operating system that is made to run on the pc platform that not
> open source. Open source is why Linux is where it is today. Open source
> is why there are so many different distributions. Instead of slamming a
> distribution, or saying that one distribution is better then another,
> why not work towards getting speakup working on the distribution that
> the user brings to the discussion. After all, isn't it better to have
> speakup working with Linux regardless of the distribution? I'd say so!

One of the other major differences between distros is how they arrange
their config files.

I think, though I don't know, that Slackware is fairly unique in limitting
itself to a small number of config files in /etc/rc.d.  Some people like
this, some people hate this, and prefer the method of Redhat etc which is
more unixish of having simlinks all over the place to each run-level and
being able to start and stop things easily.  I will admit, this does have
its advantages, and I appppreciate how this may be appealing, particularly
for the beginner.

I guess what I'm saying is, it depends how much you're going to want to
play and learn.  In my view, Slackware makes it easier to modify things as
there's less to miss when modifying config files, but for a system that'll
be set up once, and may never haved to be  changed, or at least, not the
startup scripts, then Redhat or similar is your distro.  I like to play
and fiddle, which is why I use Slackware.  I think I also chose Slackware
because when I first found Linux, that's all their was, or at least, all
that could be relied upon.  In those days, RH could be a bit flaky because
they used different libraries, and things were in different places so
compile efforts of new software downloaded from the web had a tendancy to
break, but I don't know if I'd have the same affinity with Slackware if I
was starting now.

Sorry for the ramble, but I guess what I'm saying is do not be swayed by
other people's choices, even mine, because as you'll have gathered,
distribution, and therefore package manager and various other aspects of
the Linux experience can be personal things, and you might not get it
right for you first time.  The good thing is, as long as you keep your
data backed up somewhere, if you decide you don't like the way a distro
does things, simply start again!  Linux.org doesn't keep tabs on how many
times you flatten your hard drive.  *grin*

Good luck, and happy choosing.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

It is worth pointing out I think that zipspeak is slackware in a way. Zipslack is derived from slackware, and zipspeak is in turn derived from zipslack.
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 04:59:39PM -0400, Igor Gueths wrote:
> Hi Steve. You bring up a good point. Linux is a kernel, and Debian and Redhat are the operating systems. Also other distributions such as Zipspeak and Slackware. Keeping this in mind, Speakup should work regardless of the distribution. As long as you are running in in the tty, things hsould work. Considering that Speakup is a kernel module. 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Dawes, Stephen <Stephen.Dawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:26 PM
> Subject: RE: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> 
> 
> Let's not get into distribution wars again.
> 
> You can install as little or as much of Redhat as you like. It is no
> different then any other distribution in that respect. One of the bigger
> differences between distributions is the package manager. A number of
> distributions including RedHat use RPM as the package manager.
> Similarly, Debian, and I am sure others, use APT, or whatever it is
> called, as their package manager. Granted they are other differences
> between distributions, that I won't get into in this note because I
> don't know of them all. What I will say though, is that before slamming
> a one distribution over another, maybe take a step back and think of the
> other operating system that is made to run on the pc platform that not
> open source. Open source is why Linux is where it is today. Open source
> is why there are so many different distributions. Instead of slamming a
> distribution, or saying that one distribution is better then another,
> why not work towards getting speakup working on the distribution that
> the user brings to the discussion. After all, isn't it better to have
> speakup working with Linux regardless of the distribution? I'd say so!
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Dawes
> PH:  (403) 268-5527. 
> Mailto:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Raul A. Gallegos [mailto:raul@asmodean.net]
> > Sent: 2002 May 08 1:00 PM
> > To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> > 
> > 
> > Ann Parsons said the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 
> > 02:50:39PM -0400:
> > > Well, if you go with Red Hat, what do you expect?
> > 
> > What do you mean?  Does redhat install 3 gb worth of files?  I don't
> > think it does and I've never installed it.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

<sigh>  Pardon.  Red Hat is fine.  Didn't know you could do an install
by hand, thought it had to be automated.  I remember struggling with
it when I first got into Linux.  But it's probably improved since
then.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Steve. You bring up a good point. Linux is a kernel, and Debian and Redhat are the operating systems. Also other distributions such as Zipspeak and Slackware. Keeping this in mind, Speakup should work regardless of the distribution. As long as you are running in in the tty, things hsould work. Considering that Speakup is a kernel module. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dawes, Stephen <Stephen.Dawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: Why does it need that much hard disk space?


Let's not get into distribution wars again.

You can install as little or as much of Redhat as you like. It is no
different then any other distribution in that respect. One of the bigger
differences between distributions is the package manager. A number of
distributions including RedHat use RPM as the package manager.
Similarly, Debian, and I am sure others, use APT, or whatever it is
called, as their package manager. Granted they are other differences
between distributions, that I won't get into in this note because I
don't know of them all. What I will say though, is that before slamming
a one distribution over another, maybe take a step back and think of the
other operating system that is made to run on the pc platform that not
open source. Open source is why Linux is where it is today. Open source
is why there are so many different distributions. Instead of slamming a
distribution, or saying that one distribution is better then another,
why not work towards getting speakup working on the distribution that
the user brings to the discussion. After all, isn't it better to have
speakup working with Linux regardless of the distribution? I'd say so!



Steve Dawes
PH:  (403) 268-5527. 
Mailto:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raul A. Gallegos [mailto:raul@asmodean.net]
> Sent: 2002 May 08 1:00 PM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> 
> 
> Ann Parsons said the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 
> 02:50:39PM -0400:
> > Well, if you go with Red Hat, what do you expect?
> 
> What do you mean?  Does redhat install 3 gb worth of files?  I don't
> think it does and I've never installed it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

Speaking of slackware, I know that distros like redhat and debian have the ability to grab packages off the net and install them. Is it possible to have a program run from crond over night to grab and install .tgz files for slackware?
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 02:32:56PM -0500, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
> Just for the record it was not me who slammed on redhat.  Although I
> don't use it I have nothing against it.  If anyone wants to make claims
> on installing a lot of packages one may not need the only one I've seen
> do that is slackware.  I'm not slamming on slackware either, I use
> slackware still and am very happy wit it.  However it is a fact that
> slackware will install a lot of programs and packages one may not need.
> 
> Dawes, Stephen said the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 01:26:34PM -0600:
> > Let's not get into distribution wars again.
> > 
> > You can install as little or as much of Redhat as you like. It is no
> > different then any other distribution in that respect. One of the bigger
> > differences between distributions is the package manager. A number of
> > distributions including RedHat use RPM as the package manager.
> > Similarly, Debian, and I am sure others, use APT, or whatever it is
> > called, as their package manager. Granted they are other differences
> > between distributions, that I won't get into in this note because I
> > don't know of them all. What I will say though, is that before slamming
> > a one distribution over another, maybe take a step back and think of the
> > other operating system that is made to run on the pc platform that not
> > open source. Open source is why Linux is where it is today. Open source
> > is why there are so many different distributions. Instead of slamming a
> > distribution, or saying that one distribution is better then another,
> > why not work towards getting speakup working on the distribution that
> > the user brings to the discussion. After all, isn't it better to have
> > speakup working with Linux regardless of the distribution? I'd say so!
> > 
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Dawes, Stephen]

No "open source" is the right term.

Stephen Dawes  <B.A., B.Sc.>
The City of Calgary
	Web Business Office #8300
	PO Box 2100 Postal Station M.
	Calgary, Alberta, Canada. T2P 2M5
Phone: (403) 268-5527
Fax:   (403)  268-6423
Email: stephen.dawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca >
Internet: http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregory Nowak [mailto:gnowak1@uic.edu]
> Sent: 2002 May 08 1:32 PM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> 
> 
> Don't you mean to say free software?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 01:26:34PM -0600, Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> > Let's not get into distribution wars again.
> > 
> > You can install as little or as much of Redhat as you like. It is no
> > different then any other distribution in that respect. One 
> of the bigger
> > differences between distributions is the package manager. A 
> number of
> > distributions including RedHat use RPM as the package manager.
> > Similarly, Debian, and I am sure others, use APT, or whatever it is
> > called, as their package manager. Granted they are other differences
> > between distributions, that I won't get into in this note because I
> > don't know of them all. What I will say though, is that 
> before slamming
> > a one distribution over another, maybe take a step back and 
> think of the
> > other operating system that is made to run on the pc 
> platform that not
> > open source. Open source is why Linux is where it is today. 
> Open source
> > is why there are so many different distributions. Instead 
> of slamming a
> > distribution, or saying that one distribution is better 
> then another,
> > why not work towards getting speakup working on the 
> distribution that
> > the user brings to the discussion. After all, isn't it 
> better to have
> > speakup working with Linux regardless of the distribution? 
> I'd say so!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Steve Dawes
> > PH:  (403) 268-5527. 
> > Mailto:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Raul A. Gallegos [mailto:raul@asmodean.net]
> > > Sent: 2002 May 08 1:00 PM
> > > To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ann Parsons said the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 
> > > 02:50:39PM -0400:
> > > > Well, if you go with Red Hat, what do you expect?
> > > 
> > > What do you mean?  Does redhat install 3 gb worth of 
> files?  I don't
> > > think it does and I've never installed it.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Just for the record it was not me who slammed on redhat.  Although I
don't use it I have nothing against it.  If anyone wants to make claims
on installing a lot of packages one may not need the only one I've seen
do that is slackware.  I'm not slamming on slackware either, I use
slackware still and am very happy wit it.  However it is a fact that
slackware will install a lot of programs and packages one may not need.

Dawes, Stephen said the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 01:26:34PM -0600:
> Let's not get into distribution wars again.
> 
> You can install as little or as much of Redhat as you like. It is no
> different then any other distribution in that respect. One of the bigger
> differences between distributions is the package manager. A number of
> distributions including RedHat use RPM as the package manager.
> Similarly, Debian, and I am sure others, use APT, or whatever it is
> called, as their package manager. Granted they are other differences
> between distributions, that I won't get into in this note because I
> don't know of them all. What I will say though, is that before slamming
> a one distribution over another, maybe take a step back and think of the
> other operating system that is made to run on the pc platform that not
> open source. Open source is why Linux is where it is today. Open source
> is why there are so many different distributions. Instead of slamming a
> distribution, or saying that one distribution is better then another,
> why not work towards getting speakup working on the distribution that
> the user brings to the discussion. After all, isn't it better to have
> speakup working with Linux regardless of the distribution? I'd say so!
> 
> 

Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Gregory Nowak]

Don't you mean to say free software?
Greg


On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 01:26:34PM -0600, Dawes, Stephen wrote:
> Let's not get into distribution wars again.
> 
> You can install as little or as much of Redhat as you like. It is no
> different then any other distribution in that respect. One of the bigger
> differences between distributions is the package manager. A number of
> distributions including RedHat use RPM as the package manager.
> Similarly, Debian, and I am sure others, use APT, or whatever it is
> called, as their package manager. Granted they are other differences
> between distributions, that I won't get into in this note because I
> don't know of them all. What I will say though, is that before slamming
> a one distribution over another, maybe take a step back and think of the
> other operating system that is made to run on the pc platform that not
> open source. Open source is why Linux is where it is today. Open source
> is why there are so many different distributions. Instead of slamming a
> distribution, or saying that one distribution is better then another,
> why not work towards getting speakup working on the distribution that
> the user brings to the discussion. After all, isn't it better to have
> speakup working with Linux regardless of the distribution? I'd say so!
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Dawes
> PH:  (403) 268-5527. 
> Mailto:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Raul A. Gallegos [mailto:raul@asmodean.net]
> > Sent: 2002 May 08 1:00 PM
> > To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> > 
> > 
> > Ann Parsons said the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 
> > 02:50:39PM -0400:
> > > Well, if you go with Red Hat, what do you expect?
> > 
> > What do you mean?  Does redhat install 3 gb worth of files?  I don't
> > think it does and I've never installed it.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

RE: Why does it need that much hard disk space?

[Dawes, Stephen]

Let's not get into distribution wars again.

You can install as little or as much of Redhat as you like. It is no
different then any other distribution in that respect. One of the bigger
differences between distributions is the package manager. A number of
distributions including RedHat use RPM as the package manager.
Similarly, Debian, and I am sure others, use APT, or whatever it is
called, as their package manager. Granted they are other differences
between distributions, that I won't get into in this note because I
don't know of them all. What I will say though, is that before slamming
a one distribution over another, maybe take a step back and think of the
other operating system that is made to run on the pc platform that not
open source. Open source is why Linux is where it is today. Open source
is why there are so many different distributions. Instead of slamming a
distribution, or saying that one distribution is better then another,
why not work towards getting speakup working on the distribution that
the user brings to the discussion. After all, isn't it better to have
speakup working with Linux regardless of the distribution? I'd say so!



Steve Dawes
PH:  (403) 268-5527. 
Mailto:  sdawes@gov.calgary.ab.ca 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raul A. Gallegos [mailto:raul@asmodean.net]
> Sent: 2002 May 08 1:00 PM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: Why does it need that much hard disk space?
> 
> 
> Ann Parsons said the following on Wed, May 08, 2002 at 
> 02:50:39PM -0400:
> > Well, if you go with Red Hat, what do you expect?
> 
> What do you mean?  Does redhat install 3 gb worth of files?  I don't
> think it does and I've never installed it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>