* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
@ Hynek Hanke
` eSpeak and Festival Jonathan Duddington
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Hynek Hanke @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
Steve Holmes wrote:
> Yeah but Espeak is much smaller and frankly better than festival.
>
Hello Steve and others,
me personally and some other people here can't really
understand how can someone consider the espeak voices
be of better quality than the festival voices. To me it
seems the difference in quality is just about incomparable.
At least, it seems to be a matter of user preference.
But given the difference is really quite big, I think
it might be something more as well. Perhaps the ones
who tested Festival didn't test the better quality
voices or their setup just included 8-bit voices
or perhaps there was some other problem. This
would be a no surprise because given that Festival
is a more complex solution and flexible solution,
it is necessarily a bit harder to setup and there
are more things that one can get wrong.
Another think that might be in play here is that
I expect that many blind users are used to the
simple hardware synthesizers, from which many
used to offer quite an artificial speech. Perhaps
these users got used to this sound so much that
they now actually consider a more natural synthesized
voice as of lower quality?
It would be great if somebody who thinks that Festival
is actually worse than eSpeak in quality of speech
could try to elaborate more about the reasons. We might
then try to discover if these reasons are real or if
they are of user preference or if it is even possible
to fix them with a slight fix in the configuration.
I think such an effort would be very useful. To discover
the possible traps as well as to get more light on this
discussion which, I admit, seems always very strange
to me. All help appreciated.
Now do not get me wrong that I think eSpeak is a bad
program, because that is totally not the case. eSpeak
offers (in my opinion) a lower speech quality as a trade-off
for very high speed, small size, disponibility with voices for a great
amount of languages and easy installation/very little configuration
necessary. The level of support for accessibility is very good
in both of them (Festival through festival-freebsoft-utils, espeak
natively).
This is why eSpeak is the current default in Speech Dispatcher
because it is initially easier to get running and it covers a great
span of languages. The documentation however strongly suggest
users whose language is supported by Festival to try it as their
primary syntesizer for a better voice quality.
With regards,
Hynek Hanke
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* eSpeak and Festival
status of speakup support for espeak Hynek Hanke
@ ` Jonathan Duddington
` synthesizers (was: Re: eSpeak and Festival) Hynek Hanke
` status of speakup support for espeak Kerry Hoath
` John Heim
2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Duddington @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
On 13 Jul, Hynek Hanke <hanke@brailcom.org> wrote:
> It would be great if somebody who thinks that Festival
> is actually worse than eSpeak in quality of speech
> could try to elaborate more about the reasons.
It depends what you mean by "quality".
There is no doubt that the good Festival voices sound more human than
eSpeak.
I'm not blind, but I use text-to-speech a lot for reading blogs, news
articles, etc. The main reasons why I prefer to listen to eSpeak
rather than Festival are:
1. Clarity. The eSpeak voice (I use British English) sounds more
clear, and sharp, and more articulated. An alternative description
might be "artificial and harsh".
The perceived quality of eSpeak may depend on your loudspeakers. I use
a domestic sound system with big speakers and it sounds good to me.
But eSpeak has less "bass" and more mid-frequencies than other
synthesizers, and perhaps that's less suitable for small computer
speakers where it sounds more "harsh"? People have experimented with
new eSpeak "voice variants" with changes to the "tone" and "formant"
parameters to change the tonal balance.
2. Intonation (the changes in pitch during a sentence). Festival
seems more "flat" or "boring". I prefer eSpeak's more lively
intonation (although that may not sound good for some languages).
Perhaps it's possible to make a new improved intonation algorithm in
Festival.
Note that you can use eSpeak as a front-end to a Mbrola diphone voice,
so you get eSpeak's intonation with a more natural sounding voice
(intonation with Mbrola was improved in eSpeak version 1.31 and later).
http://espeak.sf.net/mbrola.html.
Try comparing Festival with eSpeak+Mbrola.
> This is why eSpeak is the current default in Speech Dispatcher
> because it is initially easier to get running and it covers a great
> span of languages. The documentation however strongly suggest
> users whose language is supported by Festival to try it as their
> primary syntesizer for a better voice quality.
That is good advice, especially since the quality of different
languages in eSpeak is very variable.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* synthesizers (was: Re: eSpeak and Festival)
` eSpeak and Festival Jonathan Duddington
@ ` Hynek Hanke
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Hynek Hanke @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> On 13 Jul, Hynek Hanke <hanke@brailcom.org> wrote
>> It would be great if somebody who thinks that Festival
>> is actually worse than eSpeak in quality of speech
>> could try to elaborate more about the reasons.
>>
Hello all,
thank you for all your feedback. Now it is much more
clear to me why many users prefer this or that TTS
system which I would think is not as natural as the other
ones. This is a valuable input for the future developement
of Speech Dispatcher.
One of the outputs is an idea that we could offer in
Speech Dispatcher a capability to run-time switch between
synthesizers like espeak and festival based on the nature
of the text being read and the speed of pronounciation.
So if the user switched on this capability, for example,
espeak would be used for high speed reading and ordinary
work while a synthesizer like festival with potentially
more natural sounding voices could be used for reading
of long texts, books and in other occasions where natural
speech is prefered. Of course this would have to be
configurable.
Now in Speech Dispatcher 0.6.7 which was released
this week and will soon be available in the distributions,
there is another possibility on the side of TTS systems
trying to sound naturally, which is espeak with MBROLA
voices. It is free but not Free Software, so it contains significant
limitations, although on the other side, it offers quite a broad
set of voices. This can be used with the new espeak-mbrola-generic
output module.
With regards,
Hynek Hanke
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
status of speakup support for espeak Hynek Hanke
` eSpeak and Festival Jonathan Duddington
@ ` Kerry Hoath
` John Heim
2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Kerry Hoath @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Original text removed.
Firstly let us sort out what people mean by quality.
Sounds better verses sounds nicer? Nicer by whose definition?
I personally find the festival voices bloody awful and the internation
unpleasant.
At high speeds they become unintelligible and they take a lot of processer
time to synthesize speech.
This is only my personal preference however. I don't want my computer to
sound like a person;
after all it is my computer synthesizing speech, not my wife reading to me
;-)
I don't want my computer sounding like the star trek computer;
as the star trek computer takes all day to say what it means.
Human speech is hard to understand at speeds >400 words per minute;
synthesized speech such as that found in espeak seems to work far better at
these speeds.
I have the same complaint regarding apple's voices;
they sound natural but are barely understandable at high speeds and perform
sluggishly.
I am a long time user of hardware speech; accent, artic transport,
doubletalk etc.
I find software speech performs sluggishly in comparison especially a system
like festival that seems loaded down with so much extra functionality.
Certainly, festival is a flexible and configurable system;
but I have no desire to learn scheme to read my mail,
and the disk space footprint for festival is quite large. The higher quality
the voices; the more disk space used and the more data needs to go to the
soundcard.
Just because I have a 2ghz processer does not mean I want to use a lion's
share of it to synthesize speech.
I tend to find the lag time between an application sending speech to the
synthesizer setup and the
speech beeing synthesized annoying on most systems,
Jaws, Windoweyes and hardware speech responding as fast as i'd like.
I find espeak responds quickly, and the speech is tolerable to listen to
once you get used to it.
Initially the default british english has far too much top end for my ears
to handle, and it is so very loud.
As someone who has used the echo gp and old school speech;
I am perhaps more tollerant than most regarding quality.
I'd much rather use espeak on the mac rather than the slow built-in voices
such as fred and alex.
Cepstral sounds nice; but still takes an inordinate amount of time to
synthesize.
we're working at getting hardware speech on the mac, and think that it
will greatly increase the responsiveness of voiceover.
Our doubletalk box will have open specs and will work on USB and serial,
making
it an alternative for modern hardware speech.
Regards, Kerry.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
status of speakup support for espeak Hynek Hanke
` eSpeak and Festival Jonathan Duddington
` status of speakup support for espeak Kerry Hoath
@ ` John Heim
` Hynek Hanke
` Willem van der Walt
2 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: John Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
----- Original Message ----- > It would be great if somebody who thinks that
Festival
> is actually worse than eSpeak in quality of speech
> could try to elaborate more about the reasons. We might
> then try to discover if these reasons are real or if
> they are of user preference or if it is even possible
> to fix them with a slight fix in the configuration.
> I think such an effort would be very useful. To discover
> the possible traps as well as to get more light on this
> discussion which, I admit, seems always very strange
> to me. All help appreciated.
>
For me it was entirely about response time. Festival was just too slow. Key
echo was impossible. Espeak worked really well in that regard.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
` John Heim
@ ` Hynek Hanke
` Willem van der Walt
1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Hynek Hanke @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
John Heim píše v Po 14. 07. 2008 v 09:22 -0500:
> ----- Original Message ----- > It would be great if somebody who thinks that
> Festival
> > is actually worse than eSpeak
> For me it was entirely about response time. Festival was just too slow. Key
> echo was impossible. Espeak worked really well in that regard.
>
Well, this is one of the points where I think there is confusion.
Festival through Speech Dispatcher CAN'T be slower in key echo
than eSpeak. Since a few years now, Speech Dispatcher doesn't
synthesize keys when used with Festival, it just pulls the audio
from the cache and thus the reply is instant. Festival doesn't
even come in the chain except for the very first time you press the
key after reboot (or restart of speechd).
Now there has been an issue with the older versions of Speechd-Up,
which was actually a problem in Speakup (nothing to do with Festival),
which make key reading slow with some synthesizers -- it wasn't
sending keys correctly. It has been fixed (bypassed actually) in the
latest version of Speechd-Up, which is also pretty old now.
With regards,
Hynek Hanke
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
` John Heim
` Hynek Hanke
@ ` Willem van der Walt
1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Willem van der Walt @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
For me it has to do with clarity and intonation. I have used some 16 bit
voices of festival.
Of these kind of voices, the commercial ones generally are better.
The Cepstral voices are already sounding better than the standard festival
voices while the realspeak voices (not affordable under Linux) are quite
good.
I do find the espeak/Mbrola combination to be a good compromise between
natural speech, responsiveness and usable intonation.
One might want to use both the natural type voice and some thing like the
synthesized espeak voice depending on what is being read.
I find that users of speech synthesizers tend to listen for different
qualities in a voice than the casual person who would just need to here
the occasional sentence or two.
Regards, Willem
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008, John Heim wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > It would be great if somebody who thinks that
> Festival
> > is actually worse than eSpeak in quality of speech
> > could try to elaborate more about the reasons. We might
> > then try to discover if these reasons are real or if
> > they are of user preference or if it is even possible
> > to fix them with a slight fix in the configuration.
> > I think such an effort would be very useful. To discover
> > the possible traps as well as to get more light on this
> > discussion which, I admit, seems always very strange
> > to me. All help appreciated.
> >
>
> For me it was entirely about response time. Festival was just too slow. Key
> echo was impossible. Espeak worked really well in that regard.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
--
This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard.
The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html.
This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner,
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* status of speakup support for espeak
@ DON.RAIKES
` Samuel Thibault
` Kristoffer Gustafsson
0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: DON.RAIKES @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup-List (E-mail)
Hi all,
Are there plans to make speakup software synth work with the espeak synthesizer, or has it already been implemented?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
DON.RAIKES
@ ` Samuel Thibault
` DON.RAIKES
` William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209
` Kristoffer Gustafsson
1 sibling, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Samuel Thibault @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
DON.RAIKES@ORACLE.COM, le Fri 11 Jul 2008 11:15:05 -0700, a écrit :
> Are there plans to make speakup software synth work with the espeak synthesizer, or has it already been implemented?
You can do that through the soft synth, speechd-up and
speech-dispatcher.
Samuel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* RE: status of speakup support for espeak
` Samuel Thibault
@ ` DON.RAIKES
` Samuel Thibault
` William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209
1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: DON.RAIKES @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Samuel,
Is there any documentation on how to do this, and are there rpms for speech dispatcher and/or speechd-up?
I am attempting to create an accessible fedora livecd including brltty and speekup, so I need rpms for all the pieces if possible.
-----Original Message-----
From: Samuel Thibault [mailto:samuel.thibault@ens-lyon.org]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:24 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: status of speakup support for espeak
DON.RAIKES@ORACLE.COM, le Fri 11 Jul 2008 11:15:05 -0700, a écrit :
> Are there plans to make speakup software synth work with the espeak synthesizer, or has it already been implemented?
You can do that through the soft synth, speechd-up and
speech-dispatcher.
Samuel
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
` Samuel Thibault
` DON.RAIKES
@ ` William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209
1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209 @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 546 bytes --]
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> DON.RAIKES@ORACLE.COM, le Fri 11 Jul 2008 11:15:05 -0700, a écrit :
>> Are there plans to make speakup software synth work with the espeak synthesizer, or has it already been implemented?
>
> You can do that through the soft synth, speechd-up and
> speech-dispatcher.
Rather than Speech-Dispatcher, it would be nice to have Espeak process
output from /dev/softsynth directly. Or, at least something small and
light like Marc Mulcahy's speakup connector for IBMTTS.
--
Bill in Denver
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
DON.RAIKES
` Samuel Thibault
@ ` Kristoffer Gustafsson
` DON.RAIKES
` Steve Holmes
1 sibling, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Kristoffer Gustafsson @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Hello
You don't need to use espeak at all, speech-dispatcher has support for
festival that works very will with speakup and the softsynth support for
speech-dispatcher.
I've tried it myself.
I can help you with this if you want.
/Kristoffer
----- Original Message -----
From: <DON.RAIKES@ORACLE.COM>
To: "Speakup-List (E-mail)" <Speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: status of speakup support for espeak
> Hi all,
>
> Are there plans to make speakup software synth work with the espeak
> synthesizer, or has it already been implemented?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* RE: status of speakup support for espeak
` Kristoffer Gustafsson
@ ` DON.RAIKES
` Kristoffer Gustafsson
` Steve Holmes
1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: DON.RAIKES @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Kristopher,
That would be great!
Is there an rpm for speech-dispatcher that I should use to start the process, or do I have to compile it from scratch?
Any configuration / setup info would be greatly appreciated.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kristoffer Gustafsson [mailto:kg84@dreamwld.com]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 1:21 PM
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Subject: Re: status of speakup support for espeak
Hello
You don't need to use espeak at all, speech-dispatcher has support for
festival that works very will with speakup and the softsynth support for
speech-dispatcher.
I've tried it myself.
I can help you with this if you want.
/Kristoffer
----- Original Message -----
From: <DON.RAIKES@ORACLE.COM>
To: "Speakup-List (E-mail)" <Speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: status of speakup support for espeak
> Hi all,
>
> Are there plans to make speakup software synth work with the espeak
> synthesizer, or has it already been implemented?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
` DON.RAIKES
@ ` Kristoffer Gustafsson
0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Kristoffer Gustafsson @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
Hello!
I compiled mine myself, but there should be rpms for speech dispatcher, at
least.
speechd-up I don't really remember how I did with that, but I think that I
compiled that one.
For information about speech synthesizer settings and how to set tem up,
look in the speechd.conf file that is the configuration for speech
dispatcher. there are examples for festival, and for the dec talk speech
synthesizer from fonix as well.
don't forget that you need to set up festival as a server with the
festival --server command if you want to use it with speech-dispatcher and
speechd-up.
if you want the rpms, try searching on rpmfind.net for speech-dispatcher and
speechd-up.
I can see too if I have some rpms too, I can have some in my linux folder.
Hope this helps, if you need more help, just ask for it.
/Kristoffer
----- Original Message -----
From: <DON.RAIKES@ORACLE.COM>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:50 PM
Subject: RE: status of speakup support for espeak
> Kristopher,
>
> That would be great!
>
> Is there an rpm for speech-dispatcher that I should use to start the
> process, or do I have to compile it from scratch?
>
> Any configuration / setup info would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristoffer Gustafsson [mailto:kg84@dreamwld.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 1:21 PM
> To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.
> Subject: Re: status of speakup support for espeak
>
>
> Hello
> You don't need to use espeak at all, speech-dispatcher has support for
> festival that works very will with speakup and the softsynth support for
> speech-dispatcher.
> I've tried it myself.
> I can help you with this if you want.
> /Kristoffer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <DON.RAIKES@ORACLE.COM>
> To: "Speakup-List (E-mail)" <Speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:15 PM
> Subject: status of speakup support for espeak
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Are there plans to make speakup software synth work with the espeak
>> synthesizer, or has it already been implemented?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: status of speakup support for espeak
` Kristoffer Gustafsson
` DON.RAIKES
@ ` Steve Holmes
1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Steve Holmes @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: speakup
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160
Yeah but Espeak is much smaller and frankly better than festival. I
understand festival is quite a hog. I had an easy time getting Espeak
built and I even have binary versions for Slackware users with both
versions 18 and 19 of portaudio linked.
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 10:20:39PM +0200, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
> Hello
> You don't need to use espeak at all, speech-dispatcher has support for
> festival that works very will with speakup and the softsynth support for
> speech-dispatcher.
> I've tried it myself.
> I can help you with this if you want.
> /Kristoffer
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <DON.RAIKES@ORACLE.COM>
> To: "Speakup-List (E-mail)" <Speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:15 PM
> Subject: status of speakup support for espeak
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Are there plans to make speakup software synth work with the espeak
>> synthesizer, or has it already been implemented?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
- --
HolmesGrown Solutions
The best solutions for the best price!
http://holmesgrown.ld.net/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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-- links below jump to the message on this page --
status of speakup support for espeak Hynek Hanke
` eSpeak and Festival Jonathan Duddington
` synthesizers (was: Re: eSpeak and Festival) Hynek Hanke
` status of speakup support for espeak Kerry Hoath
` John Heim
` Hynek Hanke
` Willem van der Walt
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DON.RAIKES
` Samuel Thibault
` DON.RAIKES
` Samuel Thibault
` William F. Acker WB2FLW +1-303-722-7209
` Kristoffer Gustafsson
` DON.RAIKES
` Kristoffer Gustafsson
` Steve Holmes
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