* gentoo drops speakup @ josh ` Luke Yelavich ` Ralph W. Reid 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: josh @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup I just saw that gentoo has dropped speakup for 2.6.22. I think thiss is the second distro to drop speakup. What can we do? I would hate to see speakup die out after all these years. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup gentoo drops speakup josh @ ` Luke Yelavich ` Zachary Kline ` Ralph W. Reid 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Luke Yelavich @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: speakup -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 04:46:03PM EST, josh@techlab.cviatlanta.org wrote: > I just saw that gentoo has dropped speakup for 2.6.22. I think thiss is the second distro to drop speakup. What can we > do? I would hate to see speakup die out after all these years. This has been done, at least in Gentoo's case, purely for technical reasons. Ubuntu dropped it for others, although it seems as that was actually a blessing in disguise. - -- Luke Yelavich GPG key: 0xD06320CE (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGmc0IjVefwtBjIM4RApJHAKDLta5NE6NfBX/9pY9++pOEqdsMZwCgqd+e U2Nr68iL4b9fqewLtHQYqC0= =n3Xt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` Luke Yelavich @ ` Zachary Kline 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Zachary Kline @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hello, Admittedly, I'm curious. What was the blessing in disguise you saw in that? I hadn't been following the situation closely enough, it seems. Thanks much, Zack. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luke Yelavich" <themuso@themuso.com> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 12:30 AM Subject: Re: gentoo drops speakup > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 04:46:03PM EST, josh@techlab.cviatlanta.org wrote: >> I just saw that gentoo has dropped speakup for 2.6.22. I think thiss is >> the second distro to drop speakup. What can we >> do? I would hate to see speakup die out after all these years. > > This has been done, at least in Gentoo's case, purely for technical > reasons. Ubuntu dropped it for others, although it seems as that was > actually a blessing in disguise. > - -- > Luke Yelavich > GPG key: 0xD06320CE > (http://www.themuso.com/themuso-gpg-key.txt) > Email & MSN: themuso@themuso.com > Jabber: themuso@jabber.org.au > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFGmc0IjVefwtBjIM4RApJHAKDLta5NE6NfBX/9pY9++pOEqdsMZwCgqd+e > U2Nr68iL4b9fqewLtHQYqC0= > =n3Xt > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup gentoo drops speakup josh ` Luke Yelavich @ ` Ralph W. Reid ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Ralph W. Reid @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Take heart. Slackware has recently released their latest version (12.0), and one of the 2.6.21.5 kernels included includes Speakup modifications :) . Enjoy this good news, and have a great day. On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 02:46:03AM -0400, josh@techlab.cviatlanta.org wrote: > I just saw that gentoo has dropped speakup for 2.6.22. I think thiss is the second distro to drop speakup. What can we > do? I would hate to see speakup die out after all these years. -- Ralph. N6BNO. Wisdom comes from central processing, not from I/O. rreid@sunset.net http://personalweb.sunset.net/~rreid ...passing through The City of Internet at the speed of light... SEC (x) / COSEC (x) = (TAN (x) / COTAN (x)) ^ 2 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` Ralph W. Reid @ ` Gregory Nowak ` John Heim 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 07:37:58AM -0700, Ralph W. Reid wrote: > Take heart. Slackware has recently released their latest version > (12.0), and one of the 2.6.21.5 kernels included includes Speakup > modifications :) . > > Enjoy this good news, and have a great day. > This isn't big news, speakup works just fine the way it is up to and including 2.6.21.6. I would not be at all surprised therefore if slackware were to drop speakup by their next release, if the current issues with speakup weren't fixed by that time. It would surprise me greatly though to see a distro's team of maintainers take it upon themselves to cure speakup's serial code and other problems, just so they could include a speakup-patched kernel in their next release. Note, I am not saying myself that speakup has problems, I haven't looked at the code for a while. I'm just repeating what others have said on this in the past, so no flames if you please. Greg - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGmk0J7s9z/XlyUyARAjDgAKC/y8AGTCg7GmVo4UKPGCq1Wx51OgCgpADE 4f6LseCtjBWqrZSbX7Vrtwc= =z1vm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` Gregory Nowak @ ` John Heim ` Chuck Hallenbeck 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: John Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. > This isn't big news, speakup works just fine the way it is up to and > including 2.6.21.6. I would not be at all surprised therefore if > slackware were to drop speakup by their next release, if the current > issues with speakup weren't fixed by that time. It would surprise me > greatly though to see a distro's team of maintainers take it upon > themselves to cure speakup's serial code and other problems, just so > they could include a speakup-patched kernel in their next > release. Note, I am not saying myself that speakup has problems, I > haven't looked at the code for a while. I'm just repeating what others > have said on this in the past, so no flames if you please. I would like to know what, if anything, can be done to get the resources allocated that are needed to fix this problem. Could the kernel development team fix it if they wanted to? What determines their priorities and where does the development time come from? I wonder if it would help to draw attention to the problem. What is the NFB doing about this? They are always talking about jobs. It seems to me that a lot of jobs for blind people depend on speakup. It's conceivable that a group like the NFB might even be willing to put up enough money to have somebody work on it for 3 months or 6 months or whatever it would take to fix the problem. Who knows? It might be worth exploring anyway. But maybe I'm out of bounds. I don't want to step on anybody's toes. I don't think it would be worthwhile for me to volunteer to work on the code. But if I can help in some other way... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` John Heim @ ` Chuck Hallenbeck ` Kirk Reiser 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Chuck Hallenbeck @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hi, On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 09:16:47AM -0500, John Heim wrote: > > I wonder if it would help to draw attention to the problem. What is the NFB > doing about this? They are always talking about jobs. It seems to me that a > lot of jobs for blind people depend on speakup. It's conceivable that a > group like the NFB might even be willing to put up enough money to have > somebody work on it for 3 months or 6 months or whatever it would take to > fix the problem. Who knows? It might be worth exploring anyway. Perhaps some NFB folks on the list could address this. But as on outside observer, my impression is that NFB, i.e. NFBCS, is in love with Windows and the 3rd party developers, and not much impressed with open source and the Linux world. To quote Greg, who says it so well, I stand to be corrected here. Chuck -- The Moon is Waxing Crescent (5% of Full) My new web site location is at: http://hallenbeck.ftml.net The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` Chuck Hallenbeck @ ` Kirk Reiser ` Albert E. Sten-Clanton ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Kirk Reiser @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hey yeah, if we can get some funds to actually pay coders that would be nice. If we could get some volunteers to help out with a lot of the various speakup projects that would be nicer. If we could get some consistant volunteers to even help maintane our web site and code repositories that would also be very nice. In other words, dedicated help of many types would be nice. We have had people take on responsibilities over the past years but they sort of taper off after a bit. So don't feel sheepish. If you or anyone can help in anyway just let me know. Kirk -- Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario phone: (519) 661-3061 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` Kirk Reiser @ ` Albert E. Sten-Clanton ` Georgina Joyce ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Albert E. Sten-Clanton @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Kirk, if you or somebody you trust starts a fund to pay coders, I'd sure contribute something. I don't have a lot, but I presume that wouldn't be the point if there are enough of us. I could also try to get the few "free software" types I've met around here recently to help roll a bigger and bigger snowball for this. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: Re: gentoo drops speakup > Hey yeah, if we can get some funds to actually pay coders that would > be nice. If we could get some volunteers to help out with a lot of > the various speakup projects that would be nicer. If we could get > some consistant volunteers to even help maintane our web site and code > repositories that would also be very nice. In other words, dedicated > help of many types would be nice. We have had people take on > responsibilities over the past years but they sort of taper off after > a bit. > > So don't feel sheepish. If you or anyone can help in anyway just let > me know. > Kirk > > -- > > Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility > e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario > phone: (519) 661-3061 > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.6/902 - Release Date: 7/15/2007 2:21 PM > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* RE: gentoo drops speakup ` Kirk Reiser ` Albert E. Sten-Clanton @ ` Georgina Joyce ` John Heim ` Travis Siegel 3 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Georgina Joyce @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.' Hi Well, I'm not sure how the system works, but over here we have summer code camps where developers come together and tackle a particular problem. I don't know who organises them nor who picks the projects to be worked on. There must be a number of possible solutions. I personally like the idea of raising funds to employ a blind Linux user for a while in order to tackle the problem. Gena Amateur Call: M 0 E B P VOIP / IM: gena1959uk -----Original Message----- From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Kirk Reiser Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 4:05 PM To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Subject: Re: gentoo drops speakup Hey yeah, if we can get some funds to actually pay coders that would be nice. If we could get some volunteers to help out with a lot of the various speakup projects that would be nicer. If we could get some consistant volunteers to even help maintane our web site and code repositories that would also be very nice. In other words, dedicated help of many types would be nice. We have had people take on responsibilities over the past years but they sort of taper off after a bit. So don't feel sheepish. If you or anyone can help in anyway just let me know. Kirk -- Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario phone: (519) 661-3061 _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup __________ NOD32 2400 (20070716) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` Kirk Reiser ` Albert E. Sten-Clanton ` Georgina Joyce @ ` John Heim ` Gregory Nowak ` Travis Siegel 3 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: John Heim @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. From: "Kirk Reiser" <kirk@braille.uwo.ca> > Hey yeah, if we can get some funds to actually pay coders that would > be nice. If we could get some volunteers to help out with a lot of > the various speakup projects that would be nicer. I'm kind of surprised to hear that. I mean, i can understand that you need volunteers but would that actually be better than finding a way to get money allocated for getting the speakup kernel code straightened out? If so that's good because we ought to be able to drum up some volunteers. The other problem might not be solvable short of cloning you. Kirk, I know you're busy and I hate to ask but do you think you could give a brief status report? Is speakup ever going to be in the main kernel source tree? Of course, I understand these things take time but I was just wondering if there is a problem. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` John Heim @ ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 05:11:33PM -0500, John Heim wrote: > Kirk, I know you're busy and I hate to ask but do you think you could give a > brief status report? Is speakup ever going to be in the main kernel source > tree? Of course, I understand these things take time but I was just > wondering if there is a problem. I'm not Kirk, but from what I understand, speakup isn't in the mainstream kernel source, because the kernel developers think the code is badly written, and it doesn't meet their standards. As for whether or not speakup will be a part of the kernel tree, I hate to be blunt and direct, but I think the question to ask before that one as of now, is whether speakup will work ever again or not? I know all of us would probably say yes, and it probably will, but it isn't going to magically happen. From what I've seen in the gentoo bug description, the main show stopper now is speakup's serial code, and as far as I can tell, fixing that will mean either rewriting how speakup probes for a serial synth (which doesn't sound and probably isn't simple), or putting a part of, or all of speakup into user space. No, I'm not volunteering. Like a couple of people here said, I too have looked at the speakup code in the past. While I have a vague inkling of what's happening, I don't understand enough about kernel internals myself to write the same thing from scratch, or probably to even attempt successfully modifying it. Yes, I know I could learn kernel programming, but that would take time, and time, like many of us, isn't something I happen to have right now. Greg - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGnBBv7s9z/XlyUyARAhoAAJwMmRL59W9DTZ/3Vjn4LvLXCCN1sACgz8HG d2RRGj2OG9fiGsJwhzQAqbk= =MRIz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` Kirk Reiser ` (2 preceding siblings ...) ` John Heim @ ` Travis Siegel ` Joseph C. Lininger 3 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Travis Siegel @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Well, I'm not especially adept at c coding, which is why I've not volunteered for coding help, though I can usually hack things to get them to work, though my fixes/patches/hacks aren't by any means production level code. However, I'm a fairly decent cli hand, and can certainly offer assistance with web related things. So, if you can find something for me to do, I'd be willing to step up and offer some services. On Jul 16, 2007, at 10:04 AM, Kirk Reiser wrote: > Hey yeah, if we can get some funds to actually pay coders that would > be nice. If we could get some volunteers to help out with a lot of > the various speakup projects that would be nicer. If we could get > some consistant volunteers to even help maintane our web site and code > repositories that would also be very nice. In other words, dedicated > help of many types would be nice. We have had people take on > responsibilities over the past years but they sort of taper off after > a bit. > > So don't feel sheepish. If you or anyone can help in anyway just let > me know. > Kirk > > -- > > Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility > e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario > phone: (519) 661-3061 > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: gentoo drops speakup ` Travis Siegel @ ` Joseph C. Lininger 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Joseph C. Lininger @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 I have a good amount of experience with programming, including programming in the C language. Time is something I don't have gobs of, but I have a fair amount. I would be willing to help in any way you guys need me to. I'm not super experienced with kernel development, but I can always learn if that's necessary. Joe -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) iQEVAwUBRpw21uWhJqQTbqaQAQqPwAgAt1JxDAaEb3gBm+oSZ9VYyRxDkt1wztTG udrvFfOEnelCFImyIfdy+cK8+6aDPbFwfkBdj+0Zq2x+hJ6fhk6e8FXTSYqxoi1Y aZ4cRk05+H0Sjlc/8vn0yoIoVOKfBENG3p/w1z60UiroeCqKN/DpRd1EHzuivukJ 11MuTQ9PtEwVGcPEjiJz0aWZ+rtJO2ajuOoNu0IaXWcNtuY1zjAhec5cuq4moCAG uiZGU14THC0+HFg4cmFvAPJQSxSNPe/E6Z/Vp4xJlVcBeo5NgJob1tKKpmej5juW zKBTqXNv55QUMp2pd0K5n14pnf9OY6sm7RCgW9o2skM3kkJCU6HO5w== =CeYn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
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gentoo drops speakup josh
` Luke Yelavich
` Zachary Kline
` Ralph W. Reid
` Gregory Nowak
` John Heim
` Chuck Hallenbeck
` Kirk Reiser
` Albert E. Sten-Clanton
` Georgina Joyce
` John Heim
` Gregory Nowak
` Travis Siegel
` Joseph C. Lininger
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