in defense of the command line

in defense of the command line

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Octavius and others seem to be intimidated by the command line.
Here is what helps me:

Think of a Linux command as a "sentence". The name of the command
is the verb of the sentence, it tells what to do. Sometimes that
is all there is to a command line. But usually you have to name
some objects of the action, what thing or things should be acted
on. Often those objects are the names of files. A sentence has a
verb and it has objects, so the sentence thing still works.

Example:

wc myfile.txt

The verb is "wc" and the thing the verb acts on is "myfile.txt".

The next step is to modify or qualify the action of the verb.
This is usually done on the command line between the verb and its
object or objects. These modifiers or qualifiers are called
"options" and start with a dash (-) character. Those are the
adverbs or adjectives of the sentence.

Example:

ls -t

The verb is "ls" and the adverb is "-t", which lists the files in
the order they were last modified or changed (t for time, not
hard to remember).

So, if the command line frightens you, think of it as a language,
made up of sentences, and sentences made up of a verb (just one
verb), maybe one or more adverbs or adjectives, and maybe one or
more objects for the verb to act on.


Now - everybody learn to talk Linux!

Chuck



-- 
Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full)

Re: in defense of the command line

[Shaun Oliver]

chuck I like your style.
if I was a little scared of the command line before, I sure ain't now.
hey when are we going to be graced with your presence on the reflector?


-- 
Shaun Oliver

Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > icq:76958435

Re: in defense of the command line

[Rich Caloggero]

This is a great analogy, and its the way the computer "thinks" of commands.
What's hard for newbies, in my opinion, and even for us folks who have been
around linux for awhile, are the verbs themselves. The names were invented
when the GUI didn't exist, so they needed to be quick to type. This makes
for alphabet soup very quickly. If you put the time in, you can remember a
lot of commands, but it does take time, and if your motovation is, for the
most part, task oriented, putting in the time to memorize cryptic command
names is probably not what you want to do. Me, I like computers and play
with them for their own sake, but many people just want to get work done and
want the computer to be transparrent, something which does what they tell it
and no more and no less. This is a tall order, and will only become a
reality when AI, or something like it, becomes a reality. At that point,
things will have grown in complexity by another order of magnitude, and the
only beings which will be able to understand computers all the way down to
the bits are computers themselves! Fortunately for us hackers, that won't
happen overnight!! <smile>

Check out the oxygen project at the MIT lcs. at http://oxygen.lcs.mit.edu
for more on what I believe to be the future of computation. What worries me
a bit about this is the reliance on the visual. 3D display technology is
almost here, and sighted people will find many ways to take advantage of
this. It could be like the dawn of windows all over again for us blinks!


Just my humble opinion!

                    Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <hallenbeck@valstar.net>
To: "Speakup Distribution List" <speakup@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: 20 May, 2002 6:50 AM
Subject: in defense of the command line


Octavius and others seem to be intimidated by the command line.
Here is what helps me:

Think of a Linux command as a "sentence". The name of the command
is the verb of the sentence, it tells what to do. Sometimes that
is all there is to a command line. But usually you have to name
some objects of the action, what thing or things should be acted
on. Often those objects are the names of files. A sentence has a
verb and it has objects, so the sentence thing still works.

Example:

wc myfile.txt

The verb is "wc" and the thing the verb acts on is "myfile.txt".

The next step is to modify or qualify the action of the verb.
This is usually done on the command line between the verb and its
object or objects. These modifiers or qualifiers are called
"options" and start with a dash (-) character. Those are the
adverbs or adjectives of the sentence.

Example:

ls -t

The verb is "ls" and the adverb is "-t", which lists the files in
the order they were last modified or changed (t for time, not
hard to remember).

So, if the command line frightens you, think of it as a language,
made up of sentences, and sentences made up of a verb (just one
verb), maybe one or more adverbs or adjectives, and maybe one or
more objects for the verb to act on.


Now - everybody learn to talk Linux!

Chuck



--
Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full)

Re: in defense of the command line

[Octavian Rasnita]

Hi, thanks. Nice explanation.
I am not intimidate  by the command lines. I am frightened by the idea of
breaking something.
Maybe I type rm fILE instead of rm File and I could delete another file. And
I don't know the undelete command.
The most used command by me is pwd, to be sure that I am in the right
directory, and ls, to see the files from there.
The other problem I have is that I don't remember very easy the parameters.
I usually remember  the command name but I can't remember if I should use
the -L parameter or the -l parameter.
I've seen that for some commands, the same parameter make the same thing,
but for other commands that parameter make another thing.
If I remember well, it is the case of -R parameter, but I don't remember
exactly in what commands makes what.
In some commands, it means Recursive in the directory tree, but  in other
commands, it means another thing.

Another problem, and maybe here I can make something to  improve, is that
after I give a command like sync, it doesn't tell me if the command was
successfully or not, and I don't know what to do.
I typed that command from another account than root, and it didn't tell me
anything. It didn't tell me if the command  was successfully or not or if I
have the right to type that command from another account than root.



Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <hallenbeck@valstar.net>
To: "Speakup Distribution List" <speakup@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: in defense of the command line


Octavius and others seem to be intimidated by the command line.
Here is what helps me:

Think of a Linux command as a "sentence". The name of the command
is the verb of the sentence, it tells what to do. Sometimes that
is all there is to a command line. But usually you have to name
some objects of the action, what thing or things should be acted
on. Often those objects are the names of files. A sentence has a
verb and it has objects, so the sentence thing still works.

Example:

wc myfile.txt

The verb is "wc" and the thing the verb acts on is "myfile.txt".

The next step is to modify or qualify the action of the verb.
This is usually done on the command line between the verb and its
object or objects. These modifiers or qualifiers are called
"options" and start with a dash (-) character. Those are the
adverbs or adjectives of the sentence.

Example:

ls -t

The verb is "ls" and the adverb is "-t", which lists the files in
the order they were last modified or changed (t for time, not
hard to remember).

So, if the command line frightens you, think of it as a language,
made up of sentences, and sentences made up of a verb (just one
verb), maybe one or more adverbs or adjectives, and maybe one or
more objects for the verb to act on.


Now - everybody learn to talk Linux!

Chuck



--
Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full)


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: in defense of the command line

[Dave Hunt <]

Hello,

For many of these commands, like "ls", you can do a "--help" option,
to get usage instructions.  Don't forget the ever-popular "man".  

If a command reported no errors, it succeeded.  

-Dave

Octavian Rasnita writes:
 > Hi, thanks. Nice explanation.
 > I am not intimidate  by the command lines. I am frightened by the idea of
 > breaking something.
 > Maybe I type rm fILE instead of rm File and I could delete another file. And
 > I don't know the undelete command.
 > The most used command by me is pwd, to be sure that I am in the right
 > directory, and ls, to see the files from there.
 > The other problem I have is that I don't remember very easy the parameters.
 > I usually remember  the command name but I can't remember if I should use
 > the -L parameter or the -l parameter.
 > I've seen that for some commands, the same parameter make the same thing,
 > but for other commands that parameter make another thing.
 > If I remember well, it is the case of -R parameter, but I don't remember
 > exactly in what commands makes what.
 > In some commands, it means Recursive in the directory tree, but  in other
 > commands, it means another thing.
 > 
 > Another problem, and maybe here I can make something to  improve, is that
 > after I give a command like sync, it doesn't tell me if the command was
 > successfully or not, and I don't know what to do.
 > I typed that command from another account than root, and it didn't tell me
 > anything. It didn't tell me if the command  was successfully or not or if I
 > have the right to type that command from another account than root.

Command Line VS. GUI - attempted analogy

[Rich Caloggero]

When using a command interpreter, like any of the linux shells, your having
a conversation with the computer.

When using a GUI, you can reach into the machine and manipulate objects
directly, at least that is the intent.

With the command line, your telling the computer what to do and the computer
tells you the results of your action. In a GUI envoronment, your
manipulating objects directly, with no intermediator.

These are distinctly different approaches, and each has its strengths and
weaknesses. As another example, consider text editing. When using ed or any
command-line editor, you tell the computer what you want to do and it
responds. Think of how different this is from a full-screen editor like
emacs or notepad. You might say ed is more powerful, but the editing
features of emacs are comparable. They just *feel* completely different.
Consider teaching your sighted colleague how to use ed, especially a younger
person who may not have ever seen such a beast.

                    Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Hunt <" <dave.hunt2@verizon.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: 21 May, 2002 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: in defense of the command line


Hello,

For many of these commands, like "ls", you can do a "--help" option,
to get usage instructions.  Don't forget the ever-popular "man".

If a command reported no errors, it succeeded.

-Dave

Octavian Rasnita writes:
 > Hi, thanks. Nice explanation.
 > I am not intimidate  by the command lines. I am frightened by the idea of
 > breaking something.
 > Maybe I type rm fILE instead of rm File and I could delete another file.
And
 > I don't know the undelete command.
 > The most used command by me is pwd, to be sure that I am in the right
 > directory, and ls, to see the files from there.
 > The other problem I have is that I don't remember very easy the
parameters.
 > I usually remember  the command name but I can't remember if I should use
 > the -L parameter or the -l parameter.
 > I've seen that for some commands, the same parameter make the same thing,
 > but for other commands that parameter make another thing.
 > If I remember well, it is the case of -R parameter, but I don't remember
 > exactly in what commands makes what.
 > In some commands, it means Recursive in the directory tree, but  in other
 > commands, it means another thing.
 >
 > Another problem, and maybe here I can make something to  improve, is that
 > after I give a command like sync, it doesn't tell me if the command was
 > successfully or not, and I don't know what to do.
 > I typed that command from another account than root, and it didn't tell
me
 > anything. It didn't tell me if the command  was successfully or not or if
I
 > have the right to type that command from another account than root.

Re: in defense of the command line

[Janina Sajka]

Octavian:

You might want to add the following three commands to the end of
your /etc/bashrc. You need to be root to do this:

PS1="[\u@\h \t] \W\\\$"
alias ls="ls -px"
alias rm="rm -i"

The first command will alter your shell prompt to show your login
name, your host name, the current time of day as of when the
prompt is printed, and your pwd. That way you don't have to be
always typing pwd to see where you are, it'll just be part of
your prompt.

If you don't want the time as part of this shell prompt, take out
the \t part.

The second command will make ls a little friendlier. Any filename
that's a directory will end in a slash, as in mydir/, and
symbolic links will end with the @ symbol.

The third command will help you not delete something you didn't
mean to delete. Anytime you give out an rm, it will ask if you
really mean it.

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Hi, thanks. Nice explanation.
> I am not intimidate  by the command lines. I am frightened by the idea of
> breaking something.
> Maybe I type rm fILE instead of rm File and I could delete another file. And
> I don't know the undelete command.
> The most used command by me is pwd, to be sure that I am in the right
> directory, and ls, to see the files from there.
> The other problem I have is that I don't remember very easy the parameters.
> I usually remember  the command name but I can't remember if I should use
> the -L parameter or the -l parameter.
> I've seen that for some commands, the same parameter make the same thing,
> but for other commands that parameter make another thing.
> If I remember well, it is the case of -R parameter, but I don't remember
> exactly in what commands makes what.
> In some commands, it means Recursive in the directory tree, but  in other
> commands, it means another thing.
> 
> Another problem, and maybe here I can make something to  improve, is that
> after I give a command like sync, it doesn't tell me if the command was
> successfully or not, and I don't know what to do.
> I typed that command from another account than root, and it didn't tell me
> anything. It didn't tell me if the command  was successfully or not or if I
> have the right to type that command from another account than root.
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <hallenbeck@valstar.net>
> To: "Speakup Distribution List" <speakup@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:50 PM
> Subject: in defense of the command line
> 
> 
> Octavius and others seem to be intimidated by the command line.
> Here is what helps me:
> 
> Think of a Linux command as a "sentence". The name of the command
> is the verb of the sentence, it tells what to do. Sometimes that
> is all there is to a command line. But usually you have to name
> some objects of the action, what thing or things should be acted
> on. Often those objects are the names of files. A sentence has a
> verb and it has objects, so the sentence thing still works.
> 
> Example:
> 
> wc myfile.txt
> 
> The verb is "wc" and the thing the verb acts on is "myfile.txt".
> 
> The next step is to modify or qualify the action of the verb.
> This is usually done on the command line between the verb and its
> object or objects. These modifiers or qualifiers are called
> "options" and start with a dash (-) character. Those are the
> adverbs or adjectives of the sentence.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ls -t
> 
> The verb is "ls" and the adverb is "-t", which lists the files in
> the order they were last modified or changed (t for time, not
> hard to remember).
> 
> So, if the command line frightens you, think of it as a language,
> made up of sentences, and sentences made up of a verb (just one
> verb), maybe one or more adverbs or adjectives, and maybe one or
> more objects for the verb to act on.
> 
> 
> Now - everybody learn to talk Linux!
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: in defense of the command line

[Octavian Rasnita]

Thank you for this tip. This is a helpful one.

Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: in defense of the command line


Octavian:

You might want to add the following three commands to the end of
your /etc/bashrc. You need to be root to do this:

PS1="[\u@\h \t] \W\\\$"
alias ls="ls -px"
alias rm="rm -i"

The first command will alter your shell prompt to show your login
name, your host name, the current time of day as of when the
prompt is printed, and your pwd. That way you don't have to be
always typing pwd to see where you are, it'll just be part of
your prompt.

If you don't want the time as part of this shell prompt, take out
the \t part.

The second command will make ls a little friendlier. Any filename
that's a directory will end in a slash, as in mydir/, and
symbolic links will end with the @ symbol.

The third command will help you not delete something you didn't
mean to delete. Anytime you give out an rm, it will ask if you
really mean it.

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Hi, thanks. Nice explanation.
> I am not intimidate  by the command lines. I am frightened by the idea of
> breaking something.
> Maybe I type rm fILE instead of rm File and I could delete another file.
And
> I don't know the undelete command.
> The most used command by me is pwd, to be sure that I am in the right
> directory, and ls, to see the files from there.
> The other problem I have is that I don't remember very easy the
parameters.
> I usually remember  the command name but I can't remember if I should use
> the -L parameter or the -l parameter.
> I've seen that for some commands, the same parameter make the same thing,
> but for other commands that parameter make another thing.
> If I remember well, it is the case of -R parameter, but I don't remember
> exactly in what commands makes what.
> In some commands, it means Recursive in the directory tree, but  in other
> commands, it means another thing.
>
> Another problem, and maybe here I can make something to  improve, is that
> after I give a command like sync, it doesn't tell me if the command was
> successfully or not, and I don't know what to do.
> I typed that command from another account than root, and it didn't tell me
> anything. It didn't tell me if the command  was successfully or not or if
I
> have the right to type that command from another account than root.
>
>
>
> Teddy,
> orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <hallenbeck@valstar.net>
> To: "Speakup Distribution List" <speakup@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:50 PM
> Subject: in defense of the command line
>
>
> Octavius and others seem to be intimidated by the command line.
> Here is what helps me:
>
> Think of a Linux command as a "sentence". The name of the command
> is the verb of the sentence, it tells what to do. Sometimes that
> is all there is to a command line. But usually you have to name
> some objects of the action, what thing or things should be acted
> on. Often those objects are the names of files. A sentence has a
> verb and it has objects, so the sentence thing still works.
>
> Example:
>
> wc myfile.txt
>
> The verb is "wc" and the thing the verb acts on is "myfile.txt".
>
> The next step is to modify or qualify the action of the verb.
> This is usually done on the command line between the verb and its
> object or objects. These modifiers or qualifiers are called
> "options" and start with a dash (-) character. Those are the
> adverbs or adjectives of the sentence.
>
> Example:
>
> ls -t
>
> The verb is "ls" and the adverb is "-t", which lists the files in
> the order they were last modified or changed (t for time, not
> hard to remember).
>
> So, if the command line frightens you, think of it as a language,
> made up of sentences, and sentences made up of a verb (just one
> verb), maybe one or more adverbs or adjectives, and maybe one or
> more objects for the verb to act on.
>
>
> Now - everybody learn to talk Linux!
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> --
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--

Janina Sajka, Director
Technology Research and Development
Governmental Relations Group
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: in defense of the command line

[Igor Gueths]

Octavian, since I have been made aware that you are familiar with Pascal, the \t is the bash escape code for toggling a time flag. I don't recall what the other codes are right now. I don't know if escape codes exist in Pascal, but they sure as hell do in C. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: in defense of the command line


> Octavian:
> 
> You might want to add the following three commands to the end of
> your /etc/bashrc. You need to be root to do this:
> 
> PS1="[\u@\h \t] \W\\\$"
> alias ls="ls -px"
> alias rm="rm -i"
> 
> The first command will alter your shell prompt to show your login
> name, your host name, the current time of day as of when the
> prompt is printed, and your pwd. That way you don't have to be
> always typing pwd to see where you are, it'll just be part of
> your prompt.
> 
> If you don't want the time as part of this shell prompt, take out
> the \t part.
> 
> The second command will make ls a little friendlier. Any filename
> that's a directory will end in a slash, as in mydir/, and
> symbolic links will end with the @ symbol.
> 
> The third command will help you not delete something you didn't
> mean to delete. Anytime you give out an rm, it will ask if you
> really mean it.
> 
> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
> 
> > Hi, thanks. Nice explanation.
> > I am not intimidate  by the command lines. I am frightened by the idea of
> > breaking something.
> > Maybe I type rm fILE instead of rm File and I could delete another file. And
> > I don't know the undelete command.
> > The most used command by me is pwd, to be sure that I am in the right
> > directory, and ls, to see the files from there.
> > The other problem I have is that I don't remember very easy the parameters.
> > I usually remember  the command name but I can't remember if I should use
> > the -L parameter or the -l parameter.
> > I've seen that for some commands, the same parameter make the same thing,
> > but for other commands that parameter make another thing.
> > If I remember well, it is the case of -R parameter, but I don't remember
> > exactly in what commands makes what.
> > In some commands, it means Recursive in the directory tree, but  in other
> > commands, it means another thing.
> > 
> > Another problem, and maybe here I can make something to  improve, is that
> > after I give a command like sync, it doesn't tell me if the command was
> > successfully or not, and I don't know what to do.
> > I typed that command from another account than root, and it didn't tell me
> > anything. It didn't tell me if the command  was successfully or not or if I
> > have the right to type that command from another account than root.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Teddy,
> > orasnita@home.ro
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <hallenbeck@valstar.net>
> > To: "Speakup Distribution List" <speakup@speech.braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 1:50 PM
> > Subject: in defense of the command line
> > 
> > 
> > Octavius and others seem to be intimidated by the command line.
> > Here is what helps me:
> > 
> > Think of a Linux command as a "sentence". The name of the command
> > is the verb of the sentence, it tells what to do. Sometimes that
> > is all there is to a command line. But usually you have to name
> > some objects of the action, what thing or things should be acted
> > on. Often those objects are the names of files. A sentence has a
> > verb and it has objects, so the sentence thing still works.
> > 
> > Example:
> > 
> > wc myfile.txt
> > 
> > The verb is "wc" and the thing the verb acts on is "myfile.txt".
> > 
> > The next step is to modify or qualify the action of the verb.
> > This is usually done on the command line between the verb and its
> > object or objects. These modifiers or qualifiers are called
> > "options" and start with a dash (-) character. Those are the
> > adverbs or adjectives of the sentence.
> > 
> > Example:
> > 
> > ls -t
> > 
> > The verb is "ls" and the adverb is "-t", which lists the files in
> > the order they were last modified or changed (t for time, not
> > hard to remember).
> > 
> > So, if the command line frightens you, think of it as a language,
> > made up of sentences, and sentences made up of a verb (just one
> > verb), maybe one or more adverbs or adjectives, and maybe one or
> > more objects for the verb to act on.
> > 
> > 
> > Now - everybody learn to talk Linux!
> > 
> > Chuck
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> > The Moon is Waxing Gibbous (57% of Full)
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> 
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> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
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> 
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> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
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Re: in defense of the command line

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

<smile>  OK, Teddy, this makes a lot of sense to me.  Let me answer
you one question at a time.

>>>>> "Octavian" == Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@home.ro> writes:

    Octavian> Hi, thanks. Nice explanation.  I am not intimidate by
    Octavian> the command lines. I am frightened by the idea of
    Octavian> breaking something.  

Yes, it is OK to be a little afraid of your computer.  However, unlike
in Windows, if you type a wrong command, you will not crash your
system, or at least not usually.  

     Octavian> Maybe I type rm fILE instead of rm
    Octavian> File and I could delete another file. And I don't know
    Octavian> the undelete command.  

Well, I have two suggestions here.  One, when you type a command, use
your arrow keys to go over what you type and make sure that is what
you wanted to type before you hit the enter key.  You can also use the
cut and paste feature in emacs to take a command from a file and plunk
it right in the shell where you want to give the command.  Do you know
about the emacs shell.  You just type m-x shell and you're in a shell
buffer.  You can do all the normal commands from in there.
Unfortunately, once you type rm filename, it's gone.  There is no way
to recover it.  However, I'll tell you a secret, Teddy.  When you
write in Emacs, whenever you save a file, it makes a backup file.  For
example, if you name a file test.txt and you write in it, and then,
you save it, Emacs makes a copy of that file called text.txt~  If you
remove test.txt by mistake, so long as you have saved that file in
emacs, you will have test.txt~ as a backup, and you can type:  cp
test.txt~ test.txt and you will have your file.  It may not have
everything in it that the first file had, depending on how long ago
you saved it, but it will at least have most of your data.    In fact,
if you *really* want to delete a file you've created in emacs, you
have to delete the main file and its backup.  Otherwise you will be
left with a bunch of backup files in your directory.

Question?  Have you discovered the command m-x dired?  You can
undelete files from within dired if you want to use it.  Type:

m-x man 

and when it asked you what you want, type:

dired

Read about dired.  dired is your friend!  I love dired!  Oh, BTW, it's
pronounced dir`ed.  It means directory edit, I think. 

    Octavian>  The most used command by me is
    Octavian> pwd, to be sure that I am in the right directory, and
    Octavian> ls, to see the files from there.  

Yes, this is good, but if you put a dired listing of your current
directory in one of your buffers, you will not have to list the files
any more.  You can... no, you read about dired.  I'm not going to tell
you all the things dired can do.

    Octavian> The other problem I
    Octavian> have is that I don't remember very easy the parameters.
    Octavian> I usually remember the command name but I can't remember
    Octavian> if I should use the -L parameter or the -l parameter.
    Octavian> I've seen that for some commands, the same parameter
    Octavian> make the same thing, but for other commands that
    Octavian> parameter make another thing.  If I remember well, it is
    Octavian> the case of -R parameter, but I don't remember exactly
    Octavian> in what commands makes what.  

Teddy, do you read braille?  If you do, then write what in English is
called a "cheat-sheet".  This is a paper that has on it all the
commands you use all the time in braille.  You write down the
perameters, then, when you need to use the command, you find your
braille list, and you look on it and read what you need.  After a
while, you'll remember.  Think, think, do not just say, "I have a
problem. I have a problem."  Think!  Reason!  God gave you a mind, use
it!  

    Octavian> Another problem, and maybe here I can make something to
    Octavian> improve, is that after I give a command like sync, it
    Octavian> doesn't tell me if the command was successfully or not,
    Octavian> and I don't know what to do.  I typed that command from
    Octavian> another account than root, and it didn't tell me
    Octavian> anything. It didn't tell me if the command was
    Octavian> successfully or not or if I have the right to type that
    Octavian> command from another account than root.

<smile>  Linux is like an old gruff teacher who never praises you when
you do something right, she only yells at you when you do something
wrong.  If you type a command and you get the prompt back; it doesn't
tell you anything, that means that you've done it right.  Linux will
only yell at you when you do something wrong.  It never praises you,
only criticizes.   One nice thing is that Linux will at least give you
understandable errors, not criptic ones like Windows does.  If you do
something wrong, Teddy, Linux will let you know and it will tell you
what you did and why it is wrong.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: in defense of the command line

[Octavian Rasnita]

Hi, thanks for these explanations.

1. No, I can't read Braille.
I am blind only for a year and a little.
2. Regarding the sync command.

I've seen the core file in my home directory and I didn't know what is it.
I've typed apropos core and it told me that that file contains the temporary
information that will be put on the hard disk after a time.
Then I've remembered the sync command that makes that and I've used it.

However, nothing happend. No confirmation, no error message, but the core
file was there on my directory after that command. So the command was not
successfully.

I am sure I was missing something.

... and the web server administrator told me not to play with his computer.
To use mine for that.
That's why I am afraid that I could make something wrong.
Teddy,
orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Parsons" <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: in defense of the command line


> Hi all,
>
> <smile>  OK, Teddy, this makes a lot of sense to me.  Let me answer
> you one question at a time.
>
> >>>>> "Octavian" == Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@home.ro> writes:
>
>     Octavian> Hi, thanks. Nice explanation.  I am not intimidate by
>     Octavian> the command lines. I am frightened by the idea of
>     Octavian> breaking something.
>
> Yes, it is OK to be a little afraid of your computer.  However, unlike
> in Windows, if you type a wrong command, you will not crash your
> system, or at least not usually.
>
>      Octavian> Maybe I type rm fILE instead of rm
>     Octavian> File and I could delete another file. And I don't know
>     Octavian> the undelete command.
>
> Well, I have two suggestions here.  One, when you type a command, use
> your arrow keys to go over what you type and make sure that is what
> you wanted to type before you hit the enter key.  You can also use the
> cut and paste feature in emacs to take a command from a file and plunk
> it right in the shell where you want to give the command.  Do you know
> about the emacs shell.  You just type m-x shell and you're in a shell
> buffer.  You can do all the normal commands from in there.
> Unfortunately, once you type rm filename, it's gone.  There is no way
> to recover it.  However, I'll tell you a secret, Teddy.  When you
> write in Emacs, whenever you save a file, it makes a backup file.  For
> example, if you name a file test.txt and you write in it, and then,
> you save it, Emacs makes a copy of that file called text.txt~  If you
> remove test.txt by mistake, so long as you have saved that file in
> emacs, you will have test.txt~ as a backup, and you can type:  cp
> test.txt~ test.txt and you will have your file.  It may not have
> everything in it that the first file had, depending on how long ago
> you saved it, but it will at least have most of your data.    In fact,
> if you *really* want to delete a file you've created in emacs, you
> have to delete the main file and its backup.  Otherwise you will be
> left with a bunch of backup files in your directory.
>
> Question?  Have you discovered the command m-x dired?  You can
> undelete files from within dired if you want to use it.  Type:
>
> m-x man
>
> and when it asked you what you want, type:
>
> dired
>
> Read about dired.  dired is your friend!  I love dired!  Oh, BTW, it's
> pronounced dir`ed.  It means directory edit, I think.
>
>     Octavian>  The most used command by me is
>     Octavian> pwd, to be sure that I am in the right directory, and
>     Octavian> ls, to see the files from there.
>
> Yes, this is good, but if you put a dired listing of your current
> directory in one of your buffers, you will not have to list the files
> any more.  You can... no, you read about dired.  I'm not going to tell
> you all the things dired can do.
>
>     Octavian> The other problem I
>     Octavian> have is that I don't remember very easy the parameters.
>     Octavian> I usually remember the command name but I can't remember
>     Octavian> if I should use the -L parameter or the -l parameter.
>     Octavian> I've seen that for some commands, the same parameter
>     Octavian> make the same thing, but for other commands that
>     Octavian> parameter make another thing.  If I remember well, it is
>     Octavian> the case of -R parameter, but I don't remember exactly
>     Octavian> in what commands makes what.
>
> Teddy, do you read braille?  If you do, then write what in English is
> called a "cheat-sheet".  This is a paper that has on it all the
> commands you use all the time in braille.  You write down the
> perameters, then, when you need to use the command, you find your
> braille list, and you look on it and read what you need.  After a
> while, you'll remember.  Think, think, do not just say, "I have a
> problem. I have a problem."  Think!  Reason!  God gave you a mind, use
> it!
>
>     Octavian> Another problem, and maybe here I can make something to
>     Octavian> improve, is that after I give a command like sync, it
>     Octavian> doesn't tell me if the command was successfully or not,
>     Octavian> and I don't know what to do.  I typed that command from
>     Octavian> another account than root, and it didn't tell me
>     Octavian> anything. It didn't tell me if the command was
>     Octavian> successfully or not or if I have the right to type that
>     Octavian> command from another account than root.
>
> <smile>  Linux is like an old gruff teacher who never praises you when
> you do something right, she only yells at you when you do something
> wrong.  If you type a command and you get the prompt back; it doesn't
> tell you anything, that means that you've done it right.  Linux will
> only yell at you when you do something wrong.  It never praises you,
> only criticizes.   One nice thing is that Linux will at least give you
> understandable errors, not criptic ones like Windows does.  If you do
> something wrong, Teddy, Linux will let you know and it will tell you
> what you did and why it is wrong.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>