Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.

Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.

[Ghoston, Ameenah]

Ok, the last question, I posted caused a lot of discussion but let me clarify a few things.
 
I am actually not new to Linux but I have been out of touch for some time.  I am in a position at my current job where people have heard about Linux for blind people and haven't seen it. Let's face it, blind people who are Linux users are primarily computer geeks including myself. So, I have the dubious task of demonstrating the power of Linux.
 
 
Does anyone have any recommendations on the following in terms of the best setup for my Linux needs?  This is why I was asking, why is it necessary to do a server install with an "everything" installation.  
 
 
1. I want to set up a Linux box with speakup 
Gnome, and KDE.  
 
 
2. I have other projects to manage, so I don't want to spend a significant amount of time screwing with package depencies and what not.
 
3. I am dealing with the gambit of blind computer users and so, I want a setup that would work for your average user.
 
Note: This computer is for the purposes of demonstration.
I look forward to everyone's thoughts on this!
 
Ameenah A. Ghoston
 
 

Ameenah A. Ghoston
Access Technology Specialist
National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute
1800 Johnson St.
Baltimore, Md. 21230
Phone 410-659-9314-2414
email: aghoston@nfb.org 

 

Re: Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.

[Chris Norman]

I think the server setup is just best because then there is no messing 
around with GUI.

HTH,

Chris Norman.

<!-- chris.norman4@ntlworld.com -->
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ghoston, Ameenah" <AGhoston@NFB.ORG>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 1:49 PM
Subject: Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.


Ok, the last question, I posted caused a lot of discussion but let me 
clarify a few things.

I am actually not new to Linux but I have been out of touch for some time. 
I am in a position at my current job where people have heard about Linux for 
blind people and haven't seen it. Let's face it, blind people who are Linux 
users are primarily computer geeks including myself. So, I have the dubious 
task of demonstrating the power of Linux.


Does anyone have any recommendations on the following in terms of the best 
setup for my Linux needs?  This is why I was asking, why is it necessary to 
do a server install with an "everything" installation.


1. I want to set up a Linux box with speakup
Gnome, and KDE.


2. I have other projects to manage, so I don't want to spend a significant 
amount of time screwing with package depencies and what not.

3. I am dealing with the gambit of blind computer users and so, I want a 
setup that would work for your average user.

Note: This computer is for the purposes of demonstration.
I look forward to everyone's thoughts on this!

Ameenah A. Ghoston



Ameenah A. Ghoston
Access Technology Specialist
National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute
1800 Johnson St.
Baltimore, Md. 21230
Phone 410-659-9314-2414
email: aghoston@nfb.org


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


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Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.

[Ann K. Parsons]

Hi all,

Well, Amy, as a mere user, I wouldn't suggest setting up anything for
Gnome or anything graphical.  There are significant problems with
access to Gnome and they shouldn't be brought into the mix if you're
just wanting access for average users.  

My suggestion would be to set up the computer with Speakup and perhaps
with Emacspeak.    Speakup works extremely well in Emacs, so perhaps
you don't even need Emacspeak, but that's what I'd do.

As for techhie details about setting things up, don't ask me, I'm just
a user.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Amy:

Answers in line below ...

Ghoston, Ameenah writes:
> 1. I want to set up a Linux box with speakup 
> Gnome, and KDE.  

The "everything" choice in the Speakup Modified Fedora will give you
that without additional knowledge or effort on your part.

As an aside to the other debate that flamed over the weekend, this could
not be said of minimalist installation strategies. In other words, I
stand behind my assertion that there are advantages and disadvantes
either way--full blown or minimalist.

Unfortunately, the issue is fairly moot as regards Gnome and KDE. You
are not likely to find much value there yet for the blind user, though
your results for low-vision will prove a bit better.


>  
>  
> 2. I have other projects to manage, so I don't want to spend a significant amount of time screwing with package depencies and what not.
>  
The major Linux distributions generally now do an excellent job of
managing dependencies for you. The tool of choice on Fedora is called
yum. On Debian it's apt, for example.

Once configured, yum works splendidly and can even set to run nightly
without user intervention.

Please note that yum also supports package security through GPG keys.

> 3. I am dealing with the gambit of blind computer users and so, I want a setup that would work for your average user.
I find this a most fascinating question.

Who is an "average" user? More pertinant, what assumptions does this
"average" user bring to computing? I could go on at some length about
this subject, but will keep it brief.

I believe their is no such thing as a generalized computing environment
that can be used without some education and training. Even something as
simple as the plain old touch tone phone requires training. Else, how
does one know that you must first hear a dialtone before pressing the
digits of a phone number successively? My mother can do that, but the
concept of a cell phone is very much beyond her as are answering
machines and voice mail in general. Is she average? Probably for her age
group, post 90 years of age, she is.

To bring this home to "average" computing tasks, I would warrant
something as straight forward and simple as reading and responding to
email is far simpler on Linux than on Windows--but that requires that
someone knowledgable has set up the computer and email application
appropriately.

Would it be "average" to set up a user account that does not boot into a
shell, but rather provides a brief menu of choices like:

Email
Web
Internet Radio

Ten years ago, many of us used dial up accounts with various isps that
provided exactly that.

To finish up my view on this subject, the blind person's computer
interface cannot be graphical by definition, even when using a gui. If a
gui environment provides advantages, and I believe there are
demonstrable instances of advantage, these flow not from the graphical
nature of the gui, but from it's object oriented nature.

An example of how this fails on the console is the background of text in
the cat or chain web browsers when dealing with a pop up or a drop down
dialog box. On the other hand, drop down dialogs are trivial to control
on Linux where they are not so trivial, imho, on gui platforms. Just an
example of the good and not so good in one place.

				Janina

Re: Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.

[Sean McMahon]

Sinse we're on the subject of gui linux, any opinions on how gnome compares to
using emacspeak with an appropriate windo manager?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.


> Hi, Amy:
>
> Answers in line below ...
>
> Ghoston, Ameenah writes:
> > 1. I want to set up a Linux box with speakup
> > Gnome, and KDE.
>
> The "everything" choice in the Speakup Modified Fedora will give you
> that without additional knowledge or effort on your part.
>
> As an aside to the other debate that flamed over the weekend, this could
> not be said of minimalist installation strategies. In other words, I
> stand behind my assertion that there are advantages and disadvantes
> either way--full blown or minimalist.
>
> Unfortunately, the issue is fairly moot as regards Gnome and KDE. You
> are not likely to find much value there yet for the blind user, though
> your results for low-vision will prove a bit better.
>
>
> >
> >
> > 2. I have other projects to manage, so I don't want to spend a significant
amount of time screwing with package depencies and what not.
> >
> The major Linux distributions generally now do an excellent job of
> managing dependencies for you. The tool of choice on Fedora is called
> yum. On Debian it's apt, for example.
>
> Once configured, yum works splendidly and can even set to run nightly
> without user intervention.
>
> Please note that yum also supports package security through GPG keys.
>
> > 3. I am dealing with the gambit of blind computer users and so, I want a
setup that would work for your average user.
> I find this a most fascinating question.
>
> Who is an "average" user? More pertinant, what assumptions does this
> "average" user bring to computing? I could go on at some length about
> this subject, but will keep it brief.
>
> I believe their is no such thing as a generalized computing environment
> that can be used without some education and training. Even something as
> simple as the plain old touch tone phone requires training. Else, how
> does one know that you must first hear a dialtone before pressing the
> digits of a phone number successively? My mother can do that, but the
> concept of a cell phone is very much beyond her as are answering
> machines and voice mail in general. Is she average? Probably for her age
> group, post 90 years of age, she is.
>
> To bring this home to "average" computing tasks, I would warrant
> something as straight forward and simple as reading and responding to
> email is far simpler on Linux than on Windows--but that requires that
> someone knowledgable has set up the computer and email application
> appropriately.
>
> Would it be "average" to set up a user account that does not boot into a
> shell, but rather provides a brief menu of choices like:
>
> Email
> Web
> Internet Radio
>
> Ten years ago, many of us used dial up accounts with various isps that
> provided exactly that.
>
> To finish up my view on this subject, the blind person's computer
> interface cannot be graphical by definition, even when using a gui. If a
> gui environment provides advantages, and I believe there are
> demonstrable instances of advantage, these flow not from the graphical
> nature of the gui, but from it's object oriented nature.
>
> An example of how this fails on the console is the background of text in
> the cat or chain web browsers when dealing with a pop up or a drop down
> dialog box. On the other hand, drop down dialogs are trivial to control
> on Linux where they are not so trivial, imho, on gui platforms. Just an
> example of the good and not so good in one place.
>
> Janina
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.

[Janina Sajka]

Sure. It's real simple. As of today, and probably for some time to come,
Gnome just isn't ready.

If that isn't clear, let me try it this way:

Gnome ain't ready, no way, no how.
Can't splain it to you no better.

Sean McMahon writes:
> Sinse we're on the subject of gui linux, any opinions on how gnome compares to
> using emacspeak with an appropriate windo manager?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Demonstrating the power of Linux for blind people.
> 
> 
> > Hi, Amy:
> >
> > Answers in line below ...
> >
> > Ghoston, Ameenah writes:
> > > 1. I want to set up a Linux box with speakup
> > > Gnome, and KDE.
> >
> > The "everything" choice in the Speakup Modified Fedora will give you
> > that without additional knowledge or effort on your part.
> >
> > As an aside to the other debate that flamed over the weekend, this could
> > not be said of minimalist installation strategies. In other words, I
> > stand behind my assertion that there are advantages and disadvantes
> > either way--full blown or minimalist.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the issue is fairly moot as regards Gnome and KDE. You
> > are not likely to find much value there yet for the blind user, though
> > your results for low-vision will prove a bit better.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. I have other projects to manage, so I don't want to spend a significant
> amount of time screwing with package depencies and what not.
> > >
> > The major Linux distributions generally now do an excellent job of
> > managing dependencies for you. The tool of choice on Fedora is called
> > yum. On Debian it's apt, for example.
> >
> > Once configured, yum works splendidly and can even set to run nightly
> > without user intervention.
> >
> > Please note that yum also supports package security through GPG keys.
> >
> > > 3. I am dealing with the gambit of blind computer users and so, I want a
> setup that would work for your average user.
> > I find this a most fascinating question.
> >
> > Who is an "average" user? More pertinant, what assumptions does this
> > "average" user bring to computing? I could go on at some length about
> > this subject, but will keep it brief.
> >
> > I believe their is no such thing as a generalized computing environment
> > that can be used without some education and training. Even something as
> > simple as the plain old touch tone phone requires training. Else, how
> > does one know that you must first hear a dialtone before pressing the
> > digits of a phone number successively? My mother can do that, but the
> > concept of a cell phone is very much beyond her as are answering
> > machines and voice mail in general. Is she average? Probably for her age
> > group, post 90 years of age, she is.
> >
> > To bring this home to "average" computing tasks, I would warrant
> > something as straight forward and simple as reading and responding to
> > email is far simpler on Linux than on Windows--but that requires that
> > someone knowledgable has set up the computer and email application
> > appropriately.
> >
> > Would it be "average" to set up a user account that does not boot into a
> > shell, but rather provides a brief menu of choices like:
> >
> > Email
> > Web
> > Internet Radio
> >
> > Ten years ago, many of us used dial up accounts with various isps that
> > provided exactly that.
> >
> > To finish up my view on this subject, the blind person's computer
> > interface cannot be graphical by definition, even when using a gui. If a
> > gui environment provides advantages, and I believe there are
> > demonstrable instances of advantage, these flow not from the graphical
> > nature of the gui, but from it's object oriented nature.
> >
> > An example of how this fails on the console is the background of text in
> > the cat or chain web browsers when dealing with a pop up or a drop down
> > dialog box. On the other hand, drop down dialogs are trivial to control
> > on Linux where they are not so trivial, imho, on gui platforms. Just an
> > example of the good and not so good in one place.
> >
> > Janina
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Janina Sajka				Phone: +1.202.494.7040
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://www.CapitalAccessibility.Com
Bringing the Owasys 22C screenless cell phone to the U.S. and Canada. Go to http://www.ScreenlessPhone.Com to learn more.

Chair, Accessibility Workgroup		Free Standards Group (FSG)
janina@freestandards.org		http://a11y.org