Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Doug]

Slacking ...

For setting ethernet, there is a utility called netconfig.
It will probe and find the ethernet card, and it asks you
for IP address and DNS info. It will write the info to the
/etc/hosts and other network config files.

 > do I have to insmod every single module I need, and have to
 > manually configure everything?

Look in /etc/rc.d ... you will see rc files for network and
cdrom and other devices. The netconfig utility mentioned
above will write the proper info into rc.netdevice and the
rc.inet files. You typically need to edit rc.modules file.
In there are all of the insmod (modprobe) commands. You
will see that there are tons of them in there but most are
commented out. For most setups there is not much you need
to do in here except audio configuration. Look for the
lines that correspond to your audio hardware.

 > I assume any modules that need to be loaded on startup need
 > to be loaded in /etc/modules.

Slack uses a BSD kind of init method, rather than system V.
Like I said, look in /etc/rc.d.

 > alias eth0 ne2pci

You can set up aliases like this in /etc/modules.conf, but
this is for the kernel module loader to autoload stuff. It
is often not even necessary to put stuff in there. I usually
have most of my module info in /etc/rc.d. Sometimes you do
need stuff in /etc/modules.conf to pass parameters to
modules on load, but it depends ...

 > Does something special have to be done with setting up modems
 > under Slackware?

Just like with networking, there is script for configuring
ppp for modem access. Running the script asks you questions
about your ISP and such and generates files for pppd. Then
typically all you need to do is type a single ppp command
to dial in. Use the pppsetup to configure your modem. After
running that, ppp-go does the dialup ...

 > I tried sending a simple dial string to my modem on every
 > serial port, and I did not get a blip, beep, pop, etc.
 > Which means Slackware can not find my modem. since Slackware
 > is so alien to me I am not surprised, but I also can not get
 > it going.

See above. There is a symbolic link /dev/modem which will
point to a serial port. Check the /dev directory and see if
you have /dev/modem.

 > How on earth do you activate and turn off services under Slackware!!!!!

What services do you want to activate or turn off?
The modules are configured in /etc/rc.d. As I said this is
a BSD-ish setup not SVR4 like Redhat. Sorry but this is not
very automated. This is good and bad at times.

 > Where is the slackware kernel source

If you installed it, the source should be in /usr/src/linux.
If you didn't, run pkgtool and install it ...

You might want to check out the slackware support forums.

   -- Doug

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Doug]

Thomas,

 > Thanks, this was vary helpful.

I started on Redhat long ago in the Redhat 5 days, then
switched to slackware a few years ago. Yes there is a lot
to learn, but if you persist, slackware is a great system.
It is great because of its simplicity. That may not seem
true right now, but it will later if you keep on plugging.
If you have more slackware questions, feel free to send
me email directly. I've done so many slackware installs
I can almost do it in my sleep.

   -- Doug 

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Doug]

17.23 "LSR safety check engaged"

LSR is the name of a hardware register. It's claimed that this
means there is no serial port at the specified address.

http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Modem-HOWTO-17.html#ss17.23

Slack 9 problems!!!

[Thomas D. Ward]

Hello, list. If anyone could please help solve these issues I would
appreciate it right now. Coming from a Red Hat background I am completely
and absolutely frustrated with Slackware's lack of features and setup tools,
and am at a loss to get the basic functionality of the system even working.

Issue one.
In Red Hat it comes with the kudzu pnp maniger which detects such things as
network cards, and other devices and automatically configures them, and puts
them in /etc/modules.conf. Slackware it appears does not remotely have
anything that nice, and I am left wondering if it pnp's anything, or do I
have to insmod every single module I need, and have to manually configure
everything?
Issue two:
I assume any modules that need to be loaded on startup need to be loaded in
/etc/modules. However, without seeing a /etc/modules I do not know the
syntax, and how it is suppose to look. For example in /etc/modules.conf in
Red Hat to load my nic it would look like:
alias eth0 ne2pci
Is the same true under Slackware or is it completely different.
Issue three:
Does something special have to be done with setting up modems under
Slackware? I tried sending a simple dial string to my modem on every serial
port, and I did not get a blip, beep, pop, etc.
Which means Slackware can not find my modem. since Slackware is so alien to
me I am not surprised, but I also can not get it going.
issue four:
How on earth do you activate and turn off services under Slackware!!!!! I
tried chkconfig and service and Slackware mouthed off at me saying that they
didn't exist. Mandrake and Red Hat have these tools, and I assumed that
service and chkconfig were like universal tools for loading and killing
services. What on earth does Slackware use?
Issue five:
I can not find my module for my nic in the installed modules. Naturally, I
even though I am dreading the thought I assume I have to compile a from
scratch kernel. Something I never had to do regularly with Red Hat. Where is
the slackware kernel source, and I hope it has speakup built in, because
there is no way I can reach speakup's cvs server under present condition.
Well, I think that is a start, and when I solve these five issues I will ask
more questions I have. Unfortunately, the list is quite long at this point.

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Alex Snow]

Hi.  modules are loaded in /etc/rc.d/rc.modules.

--
A message from the system administrator: "I've upped my priority, now up yours!"
On Sat, 5 Apr 2003, Thomas D. Ward wrote:

> Hello, list. If anyone could please help solve these issues I would
> appreciate it right now. Coming from a Red Hat background I am completely
> and absolutely frustrated with Slackware's lack of features and setup tools,
> and am at a loss to get the basic functionality of the system even working.
>
> Issue one.
> In Red Hat it comes with the kudzu pnp maniger which detects such things as
> network cards, and other devices and automatically configures them, and puts
> them in /etc/modules.conf. Slackware it appears does not remotely have
> anything that nice, and I am left wondering if it pnp's anything, or do I
> have to insmod every single module I need, and have to manually configure
> everything?
> Issue two:
> I assume any modules that need to be loaded on startup need to be loaded in
> /etc/modules. However, without seeing a /etc/modules I do not know the
> syntax, and how it is suppose to look. For example in /etc/modules.conf in
> Red Hat to load my nic it would look like:
> alias eth0 ne2pci
> Is the same true under Slackware or is it completely different.
> Issue three:
> Does something special have to be done with setting up modems under
> Slackware? I tried sending a simple dial string to my modem on every serial
> port, and I did not get a blip, beep, pop, etc.
> Which means Slackware can not find my modem. since Slackware is so alien to
> me I am not surprised, but I also can not get it going.
> issue four:
> How on earth do you activate and turn off services under Slackware!!!!! I
> tried chkconfig and service and Slackware mouthed off at me saying that they
> didn't exist. Mandrake and Red Hat have these tools, and I assumed that
> service and chkconfig were like universal tools for loading and killing
> services. What on earth does Slackware use?
> Issue five:
> I can not find my module for my nic in the installed modules. Naturally, I
> even though I am dreading the thought I assume I have to compile a from
> scratch kernel. Something I never had to do regularly with Red Hat. Where is
> the slackware kernel source, and I hope it has speakup built in, because
> there is no way I can reach speakup's cvs server under present condition.
> Well, I think that is a start, and when I solve these five issues I will ask
> more questions I have. Unfortunately, the list is quite long at this point.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Adam Myrow]

Yes, Redhat is very automated when it comes to detecting hardware and
loading it up.  This process also added about 10 seconds to the startup
time for me.  It's good and bad.  Going from Redhat to Slackware is a
great way to discover how vastly different two Linux distributions can be.
Slackware is very much a distribution for somebody who wants to learn how
to set up things manually and how things actually work.  I've found that
most Slackware users detest Redhat and vise versa.  They are, IMHO, really
designed for different types of people.  I am the type who likes to
tinker, so Slackware appeals to me.

What sort of modem do you have?  Is it PCI or ISA?  If it's ISA, you may
need to run a Plug 'N Play utility to get it working.  You may also need
setserial to configure it.  You can edit /etc/serial.conf to give the
right parameters to set serial, and then remove the "#" in front of the
line in /etc/rc.d/rc.S to call on the rc.serial script.  It is disabled
by default because I guess it can hang the computer if it tries to
configure a nonexistent port.  The scripts in the /etc/rc.d directory
are good to look at because they explain fairly well what they are
doing.  /etc/rc.d/rc.local is a good place for customized stuff like
setting up Speakup the way you like it.

For ISA Plug 'n Play, there is a kernel module called isa-pnp.  Try
running "modprobe isa-pnp" by hand and type dmesg and read the last few
lines to see if it found and configured anything.  If it did, add a
"/sbin/modprobe isa-pnp" to the bottom of /etc/rc.d/rc.modules.  For the
network, run netconfig.  It lets you choose either DHCP or static IP.

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Thomas D. Ward]

Thanks, this was vary helpful.

----- Original Message -----
From: Doug <wearable@shawcable.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: Slack 9 problems!!!


> Slacking ...
>
> For setting ethernet, there is a utility called netconfig.
> It will probe and find the ethernet card, and it asks you
> for IP address and DNS info. It will write the info to the
> /etc/hosts and other network config files.
>
>  > do I have to insmod every single module I need, and have to
>  > manually configure everything?
>
> Look in /etc/rc.d ... you will see rc files for network and
> cdrom and other devices. The netconfig utility mentioned
> above will write the proper info into rc.netdevice and the
> rc.inet files. You typically need to edit rc.modules file.
> In there are all of the insmod (modprobe) commands. You
> will see that there are tons of them in there but most are
> commented out. For most setups there is not much you need
> to do in here except audio configuration. Look for the
> lines that correspond to your audio hardware.
>
>  > I assume any modules that need to be loaded on startup need
>  > to be loaded in /etc/modules.
>
> Slack uses a BSD kind of init method, rather than system V.
> Like I said, look in /etc/rc.d.
>
>  > alias eth0 ne2pci
>
> You can set up aliases like this in /etc/modules.conf, but
> this is for the kernel module loader to autoload stuff. It
> is often not even necessary to put stuff in there. I usually
> have most of my module info in /etc/rc.d. Sometimes you do
> need stuff in /etc/modules.conf to pass parameters to
> modules on load, but it depends ...
>
>  > Does something special have to be done with setting up modems
>  > under Slackware?
>
> Just like with networking, there is script for configuring
> ppp for modem access. Running the script asks you questions
> about your ISP and such and generates files for pppd. Then
> typically all you need to do is type a single ppp command
> to dial in. Use the pppsetup to configure your modem. After
> running that, ppp-go does the dialup ...
>
>  > I tried sending a simple dial string to my modem on every
>  > serial port, and I did not get a blip, beep, pop, etc.
>  > Which means Slackware can not find my modem. since Slackware
>  > is so alien to me I am not surprised, but I also can not get
>  > it going.
>
> See above. There is a symbolic link /dev/modem which will
> point to a serial port. Check the /dev directory and see if
> you have /dev/modem.
>
>  > How on earth do you activate and turn off services under Slackware!!!!!
>
> What services do you want to activate or turn off?
> The modules are configured in /etc/rc.d. As I said this is
> a BSD-ish setup not SVR4 like Redhat. Sorry but this is not
> very automated. This is good and bad at times.
>
>  > Where is the slackware kernel source
>
> If you installed it, the source should be in /usr/src/linux.
> If you didn't, run pkgtool and install it ...
>
> You might want to check out the slackware support forums.
>
>    -- Doug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Thomas D. Ward]

Ok, I have an internal isa modem. The problem is dmesg shows a really fishy
message.
It says /dev/ttyS1 LSR safety engaged. What in the world is that suppose to
mean? I've never seen a message like that before in my life.


----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Myrow <amyrow@midsouth.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Slack 9 problems!!!


> Yes, Redhat is very automated when it comes to detecting hardware and
> loading it up.  This process also added about 10 seconds to the startup
> time for me.  It's good and bad.  Going from Redhat to Slackware is a
> great way to discover how vastly different two Linux distributions can be.
> Slackware is very much a distribution for somebody who wants to learn how
> to set up things manually and how things actually work.  I've found that
> most Slackware users detest Redhat and vise versa.  They are, IMHO, really
> designed for different types of people.  I am the type who likes to
> tinker, so Slackware appeals to me.
>
> What sort of modem do you have?  Is it PCI or ISA?  If it's ISA, you may
> need to run a Plug 'N Play utility to get it working.  You may also need
> setserial to configure it.  You can edit /etc/serial.conf to give the
> right parameters to set serial, and then remove the "#" in front of the
> line in /etc/rc.d/rc.S to call on the rc.serial script.  It is disabled
> by default because I guess it can hang the computer if it tries to
> configure a nonexistent port.  The scripts in the /etc/rc.d directory
> are good to look at because they explain fairly well what they are
> doing.  /etc/rc.d/rc.local is a good place for customized stuff like
> setting up Speakup the way you like it.
>
> For ISA Plug 'n Play, there is a kernel module called isa-pnp.  Try
> running "modprobe isa-pnp" by hand and type dmesg and read the last few
> lines to see if it found and configured anything.  If it did, add a
> "/sbin/modprobe isa-pnp" to the bottom of /etc/rc.d/rc.modules.  For the
> network, run netconfig.  It lets you choose either DHCP or static IP.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Adam Myrow]

Yeah, I've seen that funky message.  It usually means that the serial
driver tried to talk to /dev/ttyS1 and it basically couldn't probably
because it wasn't guessing right about the IRQ or base address.  After
running "modprobe isa-pnp," what do you get for the base address of the
modem as detected?  I have also seen that message when the driver tried to
talk to my PCI modem.  I had to forcibly enable the PCI modem with both
Redhat and Slackware.

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Lorenzo Prince]

Also, a lot of hardware can be detected by using the hotplug utility.  It
will configure hardware at boot time.  There should have been a question
about whether or not to install hotplug support when you performed the
install of Slackware 9.0.

Lorenzo

E Pluribus Unix

Adam Myrow staggered into view and mumbled:

> Yes, Redhat is very automated when it comes to detecting hardware and
> loading it up.  This process also added about 10 seconds to the startup
> time for me.  It's good and bad.  Going from Redhat to Slackware is a
> great way to discover how vastly different two Linux distributions can be.
> Slackware is very much a distribution for somebody who wants to learn how
> to set up things manually and how things actually work.  I've found that
> most Slackware users detest Redhat and vise versa.  They are, IMHO, really
> designed for different types of people.  I am the type who likes to
> tinker, so Slackware appeals to me.
>
> What sort of modem do you have?  Is it PCI or ISA?  If it's ISA, you may
> need to run a Plug 'N Play utility to get it working.  You may also need
> setserial to configure it.  You can edit /etc/serial.conf to give the
> right parameters to set serial, and then remove the "#" in front of the
> line in /etc/rc.d/rc.S to call on the rc.serial script.  It is disabled
> by default because I guess it can hang the computer if it tries to
> configure a nonexistent port.  The scripts in the /etc/rc.d directory
> are good to look at because they explain fairly well what they are
> doing.  /etc/rc.d/rc.local is a good place for customized stuff like
> setting up Speakup the way you like it.
>
> For ISA Plug 'n Play, there is a kernel module called isa-pnp.  Try
> running "modprobe isa-pnp" by hand and type dmesg and read the last few
> lines to see if it found and configured anything.  If it did, add a
> "/sbin/modprobe isa-pnp" to the bottom of /etc/rc.d/rc.modules.  For the
> network, run netconfig.  It lets you choose either DHCP or static IP.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Doug Sutherland]

Steve,

Slack 9 is awesome ... with the new hotplug support
in place it found everything for me ... slack is
getting better all the time. I am a slack addict :)
Patrick is doing good work. To be honest redhat is
too complex to even know what it does IMO ...

BTW I tried building a linux sytstem entirely from
source www.linuxfromscratch.org ... lots o fun. If
you really want to understand linux ... this goes
down to the basics ...
   -- Doug


At 01:29 PM 4/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 11:36:37AM +0200, Doug wrote:
> > Thomas,
> >
> > > Thanks, this was vary helpful.
> >
> > I started on Redhat long ago in the Redhat 5 days, then
> > switched to slackware a few years ago. Yes there is a lot
> > to learn, but if you persist, slackware is a great system.
> > It is great because of its simplicity. That may not seem
> > true right now, but it will later if you keep on plugging.
> > If you have more slackware questions, feel free to send
> > me email directly. I've done so many slackware installs
> > I can almost do it in my sleep.
>
>Yeah and now the 9.0 release was pretty to upgrade in place too.  Past
>experiences with upgrading in place usually ended up having to be a
>complete reinstall but this time, I was able to update the various
>packages tweek a few files in /etc and away I go!  Sure handy to have
>diff around to compare the new files from the upgrade with the
>original ones.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Doug Sutherland]

All of those tools for automatic config etc are
good when they work ... but they add complexity.
That was my point. A better example is mandrake.
Pretty slick install but you're buried layers
of stuff. I like the minimalistic slackware
mentality. I know where everything is, and what
depends on what. I should keep my mouth shut
because this is not the place to debate such
things. What if kudzu doesn't do what it's
supposed to?

   -- Doug



>I'm a little unclear why you would say Red Hat is too complex to understand
>what it does. I suspect since I have used RH from the beginning I understand
>it's inner workings better than a Slack user, but I personally don't find it
>dificult.

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Steve Holmes]

On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 11:36:37AM +0200, Doug wrote:
> Thomas,
> 
> > Thanks, this was vary helpful.
> 
> I started on Redhat long ago in the Redhat 5 days, then
> switched to slackware a few years ago. Yes there is a lot
> to learn, but if you persist, slackware is a great system.
> It is great because of its simplicity. That may not seem
> true right now, but it will later if you keep on plugging.
> If you have more slackware questions, feel free to send
> me email directly. I've done so many slackware installs
> I can almost do it in my sleep.

Yeah and now the 9.0 release was pretty to upgrade in place too.  Past
experiences with upgrading in place usually ended up having to be a
complete reinstall but this time, I was able to update the various
packages tweek a few files in /etc and away I go!  Sure handy to have
diff around to compare the new files from the upgrade with the
original ones.

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Thomas D. Ward]

I'm a little unclear why you would say Red Hat is too complex to understand
what it does. I suspect since I have used RH from the beginning I understand
it's inner workings better than a Slack user, but I personally don't find it
dificult.

----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Sutherland <wearable@shawcable.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Slack 9 problems!!!


> Steve,
>
> Slack 9 is awesome ... with the new hotplug support
> in place it found everything for me ... slack is
> getting better all the time. I am a slack addict :)
> Patrick is doing good work. To be honest redhat is
> too complex to even know what it does IMO ...
>
> BTW I tried building a linux sytstem entirely from
> source www.linuxfromscratch.org ... lots o fun. If
> you really want to understand linux ... this goes
> down to the basics ...
>    -- Doug
>
>
> At 01:29 PM 4/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 11:36:37AM +0200, Doug wrote:
> > > Thomas,
> > >
> > > > Thanks, this was vary helpful.
> > >
> > > I started on Redhat long ago in the Redhat 5 days, then
> > > switched to slackware a few years ago. Yes there is a lot
> > > to learn, but if you persist, slackware is a great system.
> > > It is great because of its simplicity. That may not seem
> > > true right now, but it will later if you keep on plugging.
> > > If you have more slackware questions, feel free to send
> > > me email directly. I've done so many slackware installs
> > > I can almost do it in my sleep.
> >
> >Yeah and now the 9.0 release was pretty to upgrade in place too.  Past
> >experiences with upgrading in place usually ended up having to be a
> >complete reinstall but this time, I was able to update the various
> >packages tweek a few files in /etc and away I go!  Sure handy to have
> >diff around to compare the new files from the upgrade with the
> >original ones.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Luke Davis]

I always thought the same thing.  It installed bloated, and "protected"
the user from too much, thus making its workings obscure.
One could of course understand it, if one worked at it, and I did for a
year or so, but why do so if you don't have to?

Also, I actually had RH distribs that had corrupted installation kernels.
Never had that with another distribution, whether or not it is an
aboration (heard the same from others).


On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Thomas D. Ward wrote:

> I'm a little unclear why you would say Red Hat is too complex to understand
> what it does. I suspect since I have used RH from the beginning I understand
> it's inner workings better than a Slack user, but I personally don't find it
> dificult.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Doug Sutherland <wearable@shawcable.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Slack 9 problems!!!
>
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Slack 9 is awesome ... with the new hotplug support
> > in place it found everything for me ... slack is
> > getting better all the time. I am a slack addict :)
> > Patrick is doing good work. To be honest redhat is
> > too complex to even know what it does IMO ...
> >
> > BTW I tried building a linux sytstem entirely from
> > source www.linuxfromscratch.org ... lots o fun. If
> > you really want to understand linux ... this goes
> > down to the basics ...
> >    -- Doug
> >
> >
> > At 01:29 PM 4/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > >On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 11:36:37AM +0200, Doug wrote:
> > > > Thomas,
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks, this was vary helpful.
> > > >
> > > > I started on Redhat long ago in the Redhat 5 days, then
> > > > switched to slackware a few years ago. Yes there is a lot
> > > > to learn, but if you persist, slackware is a great system.
> > > > It is great because of its simplicity. That may not seem
> > > > true right now, but it will later if you keep on plugging.
> > > > If you have more slackware questions, feel free to send
> > > > me email directly. I've done so many slackware installs
> > > > I can almost do it in my sleep.
> > >
> > >Yeah and now the 9.0 release was pretty to upgrade in place too.  Past
> > >experiences with upgrading in place usually ended up having to be a
> > >complete reinstall but this time, I was able to update the various
> > >packages tweek a few files in /etc and away I go!  Sure handy to have
> > >diff around to compare the new files from the upgrade with the
> > >original ones.
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Speakup mailing list
> > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Slack 9 problems!!!

[Thomas D. Ward]

A year? It didn't take me that long to figure out Red Hat. That might be 
stretching the truth to say it would take someone a year or so to do so.
In actuality we are comparing apples to oranges here. Red Hat and Mandrake 
are Linux systems that attempt to automate everything requiring the end 
user to know as little as possible about the system. Like windows most 
people don't want to screw around days on end editing file after 
configuration file as certain Linux distros want you to do. People like me 
want to run a simple config tool which makes the changes in a minute or 
two and it is over.
Debian/Slackware systems seam to target the antiwindows/let me do it all 
for myself croud. The geeks of the world that like customizing everything 
from the bottem up. You might like doing that, but customizing everything 
myself down right sucks for me.
So I let Red Hat autodetect, autoconfigure stuff, and go on my happy way.






 On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Luke 
Davis wrote:

> I always thought the same thing.  It installed bloated, and "protected"
> the user from too much, thus making its workings obscure.
> One could of course understand it, if one worked at it, and I did for a
> year or so, but why do so if you don't have to?
> 
> Also, I actually had RH distribs that had corrupted installation kernels.
> Never had that with another distribution, whether or not it is an
> aboration (heard the same from others).
> 
> 
> On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Thomas D. Ward wrote:
> 
> > I'm a little unclear why you would say Red Hat is too complex to understand
> > what it does. I suspect since I have used RH from the beginning I understand
> > it's inner workings better than a Slack user, but I personally don't find it
> > dificult.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Doug Sutherland <wearable@shawcable.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:36 AM
> > Subject: Re: Slack 9 problems!!!
> >
> >
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > Slack 9 is awesome ... with the new hotplug support
> > > in place it found everything for me ... slack is
> > > getting better all the time. I am a slack addict :)
> > > Patrick is doing good work. To be honest redhat is
> > > too complex to even know what it does IMO ...
> > >
> > > BTW I tried building a linux sytstem entirely from
> > > source www.linuxfromscratch.org ... lots o fun. If
> > > you really want to understand linux ... this goes
> > > down to the basics ...
> > >    -- Doug
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:29 PM 4/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >On Sat, Apr 05, 2003 at 11:36:37AM +0200, Doug wrote:
> > > > > Thomas,
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks, this was vary helpful.
> > > > >
> > > > > I started on Redhat long ago in the Redhat 5 days, then
> > > > > switched to slackware a few years ago. Yes there is a lot
> > > > > to learn, but if you persist, slackware is a great system.
> > > > > It is great because of its simplicity. That may not seem
> > > > > true right now, but it will later if you keep on plugging.
> > > > > If you have more slackware questions, feel free to send
> > > > > me email directly. I've done so many slackware installs
> > > > > I can almost do it in my sleep.
> > > >
> > > >Yeah and now the 9.0 release was pretty to upgrade in place too.  Past
> > > >experiences with upgrading in place usually ended up having to be a
> > > >complete reinstall but this time, I was able to update the various
> > > >packages tweek a few files in /etc and away I go!  Sure handy to have
> > > >diff around to compare the new files from the upgrade with the
> > > >original ones.
> > > >
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