new alsa-tools releases!

new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

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I would like to take this time to tell you all of the new release that I am proud to say I released.  It is alsa-tools 9.4.  Other releases have come out, but I would like to draw your attention to this one.  I have implemented a state-of-the-art frameviewer.  Nothing like windows jfw frameview.  This is worth checking out.  I have not checked out the other releases that have been made sense then but I incourage you to check out:
ftp://ftp.alsa-project.org/pub/tools
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

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Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

Hey, Kevin:

How about telling us a little more about which ALSA Tool? And, what is
so new and useful? A little documentation would help.

For example, I use hdsploader. Did you do anything to that? Something
related? I hate the thought of digging around to understand what you
mean. I'd just rather you told us up front.

kevin writes:
> From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> 
>    I would like to take this time to tell you all of the new release that I
>    am proud to say I released.  It is alsa-tools 9.4.  Other releases have
>    come out, but I would like to draw your attention to this one.  I have
>    implemented a state-of-the-art frameviewer.  Nothing like windows jfw
>    frameview.  This is worth checking out.  I have not checked out the other
>    releases that have been made sense then but I incourage you to check out:
>    ftp://ftp.alsa-project.org/pub/tools
>    Kevin
>    email:
>    kjsisco@rcn.com
>     

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

Sorry, I did not touch that.  This is simply another version of the drivers.
As I said before it has frameview.  This is basicly for naming frames that
come up.  You can get it at
fttp://ftp.alsa-projects.org/pub/tools/alsa-tools-0.9.4.tar
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> Hey, Kevin:
>
> How about telling us a little more about which ALSA Tool? And, what is
> so new and useful? A little documentation would help.
>
> For example, I use hdsploader. Did you do anything to that? Something
> related? I hate the thought of digging around to understand what you
> mean. I'd just rather you told us up front.
>
> kevin writes:
> > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> >
> >    I would like to take this time to tell you all of the new release
that I
> >    am proud to say I released.  It is alsa-tools 9.4.  Other releases
have
> >    come out, but I would like to draw your attention to this one.  I
have
> >    implemented a state-of-the-art frameviewer.  Nothing like windows jfw
> >    frameview.  This is worth checking out.  I have not checked out the
other
> >    releases that have been made sense then but I incourage you to check
out:
> >    ftp://ftp.alsa-project.org/pub/tools
> >    Kevin
> >    email:
> >    kjsisco@rcn.com
> >
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Scott Howell]

Ah Kevin, I now understand and your message to me didn't explain what 
these toold/tool would do so thanks for expanding upon this.

Scott

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Scott Howell]

Yes Kevin, I had a look over the tools and after I had asked you about 
them in an E-mail you told me I must get them as they were somehow 
important to Speakup.
Well to be honest I grabbed the package, read over the readme files, and 
honestly couldn't find anything in there that would be of any use to me. 
Of course this is me personally, but maybe I'm missing something. Looks 
like these packages were put together by others so you just pulled them 
together?

tnx

Scott

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

Well I will admit that speakup may not be ready for such technology, but I
assure you I did much more than pull them together
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> Yes Kevin, I had a look over the tools and after I had asked you about
> them in an E-mail you told me I must get them as they were somehow
> important to Speakup.
> Well to be honest I grabbed the package, read over the readme files, and
> honestly couldn't find anything in there that would be of any use to me.
> Of course this is me personally, but maybe I'm missing something. Looks
> like these packages were put together by others so you just pulled them
> together?
>
> tnx
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

kevin writes:
> 
> Well I will admit that speakup may not be ready for such technology, but I
> assure you I did much more than pull them together

Kevin:

I still don't understand you. The alsa-tools package uncompresses to
show the following directories:


ac3dec/  as10k1/    envy24control/  hdsploader/  sb16_csp/  seq/  sscape_ctl/
t	 vxloader/

So, which one are you talking about?

And, how do I use it? I understand about compiling, but I'm just not
clear what you're talking about.

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 5:49 PM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > Yes Kevin, I had a look over the tools and after I had asked you about
> > them in an E-mail you told me I must get them as they were somehow
> > important to Speakup.
> > Well to be honest I grabbed the package, read over the readme files, and
> > honestly couldn't find anything in there that would be of any use to me.
> > Of course this is me personally, but maybe I'm missing something. Looks
> > like these packages were put together by others so you just pulled them
> > together?
> >
> > tnx
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Ryan Mann]

I also have a question.  What is the frame viewer?  This sounds like 
something to do with a web browser and I don't know what the ALSA tools 
have to do with that.
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Janina Sajka wrote:

> kevin writes:
> > 
> > Well I will admit that speakup may not be ready for such technology, but I
> > assure you I did much more than pull them together
> 
> Kevin:
> 
> I still don't understand you. The alsa-tools package uncompresses to
> show the following directories:
> 
> 
> ac3dec/  as10k1/    envy24control/  hdsploader/  sb16_csp/  seq/  sscape_ctl/
> t	 vxloader/
> 
> So, which one are you talking about?
> 
> And, how do I use it? I understand about compiling, but I'm just not
> clear what you're talking about.
> 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 5:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> > 
> > 
> > > Yes Kevin, I had a look over the tools and after I had asked you about
> > > them in an E-mail you told me I must get them as they were somehow
> > > important to Speakup.
> > > Well to be honest I grabbed the package, read over the readme files, and
> > > honestly couldn't find anything in there that would be of any use to me.
> > > Of course this is me personally, but maybe I'm missing something. Looks
> > > like these packages were put together by others so you just pulled them
> > > together?
> > >
> > > tnx
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
This solves alot of issues.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Mann" <rmann@rmisp.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> I also have a question.  What is the frame viewer?  This sounds like
> something to do with a web browser and I don't know what the ALSA tools
> have to do with that.
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
> > kevin writes:
> > >
> > > Well I will admit that speakup may not be ready for such technology,
but I
> > > assure you I did much more than pull them together
> >
> > Kevin:
> >
> > I still don't understand you. The alsa-tools package uncompresses to
> > show the following directories:
> >
> >
> > ac3dec/  as10k1/    envy24control/  hdsploader/  sb16_csp/  seq/
sscape_ctl/
> > t vxloader/
> >
> > So, which one are you talking about?
> >
> > And, how do I use it? I understand about compiling, but I'm just not
> > clear what you're talking about.
> >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 5:49 PM
> > > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes Kevin, I had a look over the tools and after I had asked you
about
> > > > them in an E-mail you told me I must get them as they were somehow
> > > > important to Speakup.
> > > > Well to be honest I grabbed the package, read over the readme files,
and
> > > > honestly couldn't find anything in there that would be of any use to
me.
> > > > Of course this is me personally, but maybe I'm missing something.
Looks
> > > > like these packages were put together by others so you just pulled
them
> > > > together?
> > > >
> > > > tnx
> > > >
> > > > Scott
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Shaun Oliver]

at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, 
> The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
> you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
> This solves alot of issues.

I've never read so much faeces in my entire life.
kevin, we're not using a gui nore will we be any time soon. well, some
of us might be to play with gnopernicus but that's a different kettle of
fish.
there's no mdi on the console. not to my knowledge anyway.
do us a favour and stop sprouting pure unadulterated bunkum.
well may you ask why doth he flame so?
it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there of
where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather than
create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.

-- 
Shaun Oliver
"Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
YAHOO: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
AIM: captain nemo 200
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman
CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Scott Howell]

I dont' want to keep the flames alive here, but to be honest I looked at 
all the "readme" type files and I didn't see your name in there Kevin 
and I wasn't sure just by reading over this stuff how any of these apps 
would do any good. I know I didn't read anything that discussed screen 
readers etc. Speakup or otherwise.
Maybe its me, but maybe not.
And if there's any truth to what is quoted below, please don't do that 
its just not a good thing. You give so little specifics, information, 
and the answers to my questions have all be off the mark.
Telling me I had to ahve this set of tools doesn't mean anything to me I 
like to know more and you just insisted I download it because I needed 
it.
I doubt this to be the case Kevin.


On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 02:38:05PM +1000, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there of
> where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather than
> create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> 

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Shaun Oliver]

personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
possible, he's full of faeces.

-- 
Shaun Oliver
"Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
YAHOO: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
AIM: captain nemo 200
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman
CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

It is okay to say you are ignorant of the subject.  If you don't believe me
email the person in charge of the alsa project.  If you can't find it I'll
send you the link.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
> possible, he's full of faeces.
>
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
you have to kiss tomorrow!"
>
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
> YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> AIM: captain nemo 200
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile
#mauisun
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

No, Kevin, that's not how it works.

You brought it up. If it's worth bringing it up, it's worth explaining
it. If you don't have the time or interest, or the ability to do that,
then stop posting on it.

You have a responsibility here that you've been avoiding. Put up or shut
up.


kevin writes:
> From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> 
> It is okay to say you are ignorant of the subject.  If you don't believe me
> email the person in charge of the alsa project.  If you can't find it I'll
> send you the link.
> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:27 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
> > possible, he's full of faeces.
> >
> > -- 
> > Shaun Oliver
> > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
> you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> >
> > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > ICQ: 76958435
> > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > IRCNICK: blindman
> > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile
> #mauisun
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

I have told you people the basic new feature and you people jump down my
throat.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> No, Kevin, that's not how it works.
>
> You brought it up. If it's worth bringing it up, it's worth explaining
> it. If you don't have the time or interest, or the ability to do that,
> then stop posting on it.
>
> You have a responsibility here that you've been avoiding. Put up or shut
> up.
>
>
> kevin writes:
> > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> >
> > It is okay to say you are ignorant of the subject.  If you don't believe
me
> > email the person in charge of the alsa project.  If you can't find it
I'll
> > send you the link.
> > Kevin
> > email:
> > kjsisco@rcn.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> >
> >
> > > personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
> > > possible, he's full of faeces.
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Shaun Oliver
> > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the
ass
> > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > >
> > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
#audiofile
> > #mauisun
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

RE: new alsa-tools releases!

[Jared]

Can you blame us for jumping down your throat? Last time I knew console
programs didn't have MDI user interfaces, someone please correct me if i'm
wrong, with an example. I was under the impression that only windowed
enviorenments had that. You also appeared to be fairly ignorent on the blind
programming list so why should we listen to you now?

-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
[mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of kevin
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:30 PM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


I have told you people the basic new feature and you people jump down my
throat.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> No, Kevin, that's not how it works.
>
> You brought it up. If it's worth bringing it up, it's worth explaining
> it. If you don't have the time or interest, or the ability to do that,
> then stop posting on it.
>
> You have a responsibility here that you've been avoiding. Put up or shut
> up.
>
>
> kevin writes:
> > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> >
> > It is okay to say you are ignorant of the subject.  If you don't believe
me
> > email the person in charge of the alsa project.  If you can't find it
I'll
> > send you the link.
> > Kevin
> > email:
> > kjsisco@rcn.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> >
> >
> > > personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
> > > possible, he's full of faeces.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shaun Oliver
> > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the
ass
> > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > >
> > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
#audiofile
> > #mauisun
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>



_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

Ignorant on the blindprogramming list?  That is offtopic, but email me
offlist because I'd like to know what you mean.  Also, console apps do have
limited, and I stress, limited mdi.  Not as powerful as windows mdi, but it
is not just Single document interface as you are thinking about.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jared" <jared-stofflett@twmi.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: new alsa-tools releases!


> Can you blame us for jumping down your throat? Last time I knew console
> programs didn't have MDI user interfaces, someone please correct me if i'm
> wrong, with an example. I was under the impression that only windowed
> enviorenments had that. You also appeared to be fairly ignorent on the
blind
> programming list so why should we listen to you now?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca
> [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]On Behalf Of kevin
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 9:30 PM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
>
>
> I have told you people the basic new feature and you people jump down my
> throat.
> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:58 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
>
>
> > No, Kevin, that's not how it works.
> >
> > You brought it up. If it's worth bringing it up, it's worth explaining
> > it. If you don't have the time or interest, or the ability to do that,
> > then stop posting on it.
> >
> > You have a responsibility here that you've been avoiding. Put up or shut
> > up.
> >
> >
> > kevin writes:
> > > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> > >
> > > It is okay to say you are ignorant of the subject.  If you don't
believe
> me
> > > email the person in charge of the alsa project.  If you can't find it
> I'll
> > > send you the link.
> > > Kevin
> > > email:
> > > kjsisco@rcn.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:27 AM
> > > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> > >
> > >
> > > > personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
> > > > possible, he's full of faeces.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Shaun Oliver
> > > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the
> ass
> > > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > > >
> > > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
> #audiofile
> > > #mauisun
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

kevin writes:
> From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> 
> I have told you people the basic new feature and you people jump down my
> throat.

To the contrary. You have made vague assertions which you did not
explain. And, we did not jump down your throat, at least not until you
refused to reply to numerous polite requests.

No problem for me. You won't show up in my inbox again. At least not
from your current address.


> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:58 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > No, Kevin, that's not how it works.
> >
> > You brought it up. If it's worth bringing it up, it's worth explaining
> > it. If you don't have the time or interest, or the ability to do that,
> > then stop posting on it.
> >
> > You have a responsibility here that you've been avoiding. Put up or shut
> > up.
> >
> >
> > kevin writes:
> > > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> > >
> > > It is okay to say you are ignorant of the subject.  If you don't believe
> me
> > > email the person in charge of the alsa project.  If you can't find it
> I'll
> > > send you the link.
> > > Kevin
> > > email:
> > > kjsisco@rcn.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:27 AM
> > > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> > >
> > >
> > > > personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
> > > > possible, he's full of faeces.
> > > >
> > > > -- 
> > > > Shaun Oliver
> > > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the
> ass
> > > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > > >
> > > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
> #audiofile
> > > #mauisun
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Scott Howell]

Look you little shit!!!

I take offense to what you wrote. Ignorence is not the issue it s your 
lack of providing any details or anything of value. Why the hell would 
you put out a package and then be so damned cryptic about its use, its 
hell everything. You provide no useful information at all other than 
here is this package and I can't find your name in there anywhere, but 
yet I find all these other peoples name. So what did you do then, 
assemble the package? You insult our intelligence over and over and I'm 
so sick of your babbling and either give folks something useful or just 
shut the hell up!!!
Ay Kevin get with the program. I say again if you put this package out 
you'd want everyone to know how it would be useful, could be useful, 
you'd be telling us how SPeakup could benefit. I see nothing in that 
package that would benefit Speakup especially with multi document 
windows, frames, or anything else. The ALsa project has nothing to do 
with developing screen access applications to the best of my knowledge. 
You've just pushed my button with this me lad. How dare you call or 
imply someone is ignorent when its you who has shown ignorence and 
ignored the questions and replied wtih crap.
So as they say, put up or shut up.


On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 11:01:37PM -0400, kevin wrote:
> It is okay to say you are ignorant of the subject.  If you don't believe me
> email the person in charge of the alsa project.  If you can't find it I'll
> send you the link.
> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:27 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
> > possible, he's full of faeces.
> >
> > -- 
> > Shaun Oliver
> > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
> you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> >
> > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > ICQ: 76958435
> > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > IRCNICK: blindman
> > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile
> #mauisun
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

Well well, drop your weapons.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> Look you little shit!!!
>
> I take offense to what you wrote. Ignorence is not the issue it s your
> lack of providing any details or anything of value. Why the hell would
> you put out a package and then be so damned cryptic about its use, its
> hell everything. You provide no useful information at all other than
> here is this package and I can't find your name in there anywhere, but
> yet I find all these other peoples name. So what did you do then,
> assemble the package? You insult our intelligence over and over and I'm
> so sick of your babbling and either give folks something useful or just
> shut the hell up!!!
> Ay Kevin get with the program. I say again if you put this package out
> you'd want everyone to know how it would be useful, could be useful,
> you'd be telling us how SPeakup could benefit. I see nothing in that
> package that would benefit Speakup especially with multi document
> windows, frames, or anything else. The ALsa project has nothing to do
> with developing screen access applications to the best of my knowledge.
> You've just pushed my button with this me lad. How dare you call or
> imply someone is ignorent when its you who has shown ignorence and
> ignored the questions and replied wtih crap.
> So as they say, put up or shut up.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 11:01:37PM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > It is okay to say you are ignorant of the subject.  If you don't believe
me
> > email the person in charge of the alsa project.  If you can't find it
I'll
> > send you the link.
> > Kevin
> > email:
> > kjsisco@rcn.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> >
> >
> > > personally I think he's babbling too much. or to be as accurate as
> > > possible, he's full of faeces.
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Shaun Oliver
> > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the
ass
> > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > >
> > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
#audiofile
> > #mauisun
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Jes and guide dog Harley]

Folks, I'm a newbie, and Kev, bro, even I, who have been a windows user for 5 years straight, know that sound arcatectures have
nothing! what so ever to do with frames! Got it? And besides that, I'm sick of you posting one liner messages trying to defend
yourself! IT just waists ten more seconds of my life! If you don't stop this crap I'm gonna unsubscribe from this list! Kurk,
please, you're the moderator here. You have ultimate control over who is on and who is not. Please please please! Do something!

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Gregory Nowak]

Having been on this list for a good while now, I have observed that
Kirk is not the type of person to play kindergarten
teacher/counselor. Can't say I blame him for that. People shouldn't
have to be told by Kirk that they should share, and not break all the
toys (smile).

Greg


On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 04:07:38PM -0400, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:
> Folks, I'm a newbie, and Kev, bro, even I, who have been a windows user for 5 years straight, know that sound arcatectures have
> nothing! what so ever to do with frames! Got it? And besides that, I'm sick of you posting one liner messages trying to defend
> yourself! IT just waists ten more seconds of my life! If you don't stop this crap I'm gonna unsubscribe from this list! Kurk,
> please, you're the moderator here. You have ultimate control over who is on and who is not. Please please please! Do something!
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Luke Davis]

All any of us have to do, is ignore this fool.  He will most likely go
away, if we all shutup.


On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:

> Folks, I'm a newbie, and Kev, bro, even I, who have been a windows user for 5 years straight, know that sound arcatectures have
> nothing! what so ever to do with frames! Got it? And besides that, I'm sick of you posting one liner messages trying to defend
> yourself! IT just waists ten more seconds of my life! If you don't stop this crap I'm gonna unsubscribe from this list! Kurk,
> please, you're the moderator here. You have ultimate control over who is on and who is not. Please please please! Do something!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
Want a free month of internet access on a great ISP?  Go here:
http://www.tacticus.com/net/

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Shaun Oliver]

at the risk of being helpful, Jes and guide dog Harley delivered up the following on Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 04:07:38PM -0400, 
 Kurk,
> please, you're the moderator here. You have ultimate control over who is on and who is not. Please please please! Do something!
> 

such is the beauty of linux.
I don't mean to offend, but if kirk sat there and dropped every moron
that made right royal arses of themselves on this list we'd have a very
small list.

install spamassassin or create a .procmailrc file with a recipe to pipe
kevin's messages to /dev/null.
either way, you have the power.



-- 
Shaun Oliver
"Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
YAHOO: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
AIM: captain nemo 200
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman
CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

I am writing documentation, I realy am!
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> at the risk of being helpful, Jes and guide dog Harley delivered up the
following on Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 04:07:38PM -0400,
>  Kurk,
> > please, you're the moderator here. You have ultimate control over who is
on and who is not. Please please please! Do something!
> >
>
> such is the beauty of linux.
> I don't mean to offend, but if kirk sat there and dropped every moron
> that made right royal arses of themselves on this list we'd have a very
> small list.
>
> install spamassassin or create a .procmailrc file with a recipe to pipe
> kevin's messages to /dev/null.
> either way, you have the power.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
you have to kiss tomorrow!"
>
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
> YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> AIM: captain nemo 200
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile
#mauisun
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

I did not mean to start a war.  Hmmm, if I am not in the readme files I can
send you the email link for the one in charge of alsa.  It will be
straightened out I am sure.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> I dont' want to keep the flames alive here, but to be honest I looked at
> all the "readme" type files and I didn't see your name in there Kevin
> and I wasn't sure just by reading over this stuff how any of these apps
> would do any good. I know I didn't read anything that discussed screen
> readers etc. Speakup or otherwise.
> Maybe its me, but maybe not.
> And if there's any truth to what is quoted below, please don't do that
> its just not a good thing. You give so little specifics, information,
> and the answers to my questions have all be off the mark.
> Telling me I had to ahve this set of tools doesn't mean anything to me I
> like to know more and you just insisted I download it because I needed
> it.
> I doubt this to be the case Kevin.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 02:38:05PM +1000, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there of
> > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather than
> > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Scott Howell]

Sorry I don't mean to drag this one, but what in the hell are you 
rambling on about. I could care less and I'm sure others would agree 
what your role is. WHat value does this suposed tool you have been so 
vaig about have. Why can't you just answer the questions we've asked. 
WHy must you make this so damned difficult, insult our intelligence, and 
just generally be annoying. WHy can't you just answer the question and 
you'd not have to be concerned about a war. Answer the question that's 
all you have to do its that simple. GOt back and read your original post 
and the subsequent posts asking questions and answer them. If this is a 
tool that folks can benefit form then tell the world, don't make this so 
painful, I don't see how you benefit. Man your a strange duck, geez take 
this chance to tell us what a great thing this is, you know blow your 
horn.
I'll stop posting on this topic now.


On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 11:05:02PM -0400, kevin wrote:
> I did not mean to start a war.  Hmmm, if I am not in the readme files I can
> send you the email link for the one in charge of alsa.  It will be
> straightened out I am sure.
> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:17 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > I dont' want to keep the flames alive here, but to be honest I looked at
> > all the "readme" type files and I didn't see your name in there Kevin
> > and I wasn't sure just by reading over this stuff how any of these apps
> > would do any good. I know I didn't read anything that discussed screen
> > readers etc. Speakup or otherwise.
> > Maybe its me, but maybe not.
> > And if there's any truth to what is quoted below, please don't do that
> > its just not a good thing. You give so little specifics, information,
> > and the answers to my questions have all be off the mark.
> > Telling me I had to ahve this set of tools doesn't mean anything to me I
> > like to know more and you just insisted I download it because I needed
> > it.
> > I doubt this to be the case Kevin.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 02:38:05PM +1000, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> > > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there of
> > > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather than
> > > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

I have been following this thread and I agree with Shaun, Scott,
and Janina about the strange interaction taking place here.

My best guess is that Kevin has not the slightest idea what
speakup is all about, and in fact may be confusing it with the
gnopernicus access package, where frames and such might
conceivably be tied to a sound package by means of some clever
tool or other.

But then, I too am only guessing in an effort to understand why
we get such cryptic and uninformative postings here.

Speakup is not like Jaws. It is NOTHING like Jaws. Frame-viewers
are totally irrelevant to speakup users. Speakup enables a Linux
kernel to make text consoles and applications with text
interfaces totally accessible in speech. Web browsers with text
modes have to deal with frames, true, but they each do so in
their own way, and that too has nothing to do with speakup.

Go check into a windows list, Kevin, or the Gnome or KDE
accessibility projects. Those venues could conceivably have an
interest in your product, if there IS one.

Chuck

-- 
The Moon is Waning Crescent (26% of Full)
 Get my public key from website, http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

I realize what speakup is all about and it seems this release is met with
such hostility.  Again, I say you may email the one in charge of the alsa
project with your doubts
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck Hallenbeck" <chuckh@sent.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> I have been following this thread and I agree with Shaun, Scott,
> and Janina about the strange interaction taking place here.
>
> My best guess is that Kevin has not the slightest idea what
> speakup is all about, and in fact may be confusing it with the
> gnopernicus access package, where frames and such might
> conceivably be tied to a sound package by means of some clever
> tool or other.
>
> But then, I too am only guessing in an effort to understand why
> we get such cryptic and uninformative postings here.
>
> Speakup is not like Jaws. It is NOTHING like Jaws. Frame-viewers
> are totally irrelevant to speakup users. Speakup enables a Linux
> kernel to make text consoles and applications with text
> interfaces totally accessible in speech. Web browsers with text
> modes have to deal with frames, true, but they each do so in
> their own way, and that too has nothing to do with speakup.
>
> Go check into a windows list, Kevin, or the Gnome or KDE
> accessibility projects. Those venues could conceivably have an
> interest in your product, if there IS one.
>
> Chuck
>
> -- 
> The Moon is Waning Crescent (26% of Full)
>  Get my public key from website, http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Shaun Oliver]

at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 09:18:10PM -0400, 
> I realize what speakup is all about and it seems this release is met with
> such hostility.  Again, I say you may email the one in charge of the alsa
> project with your doubts

kevin piss off unsubscribe take you babble elsewhere. I'm getting sick
of reading this thread.
I'm to the point now where I'm just about ready to add you to my
blacklist in spamassassin.
you've totally missed the point.
the point is you wanna create something, you get up on your soap box
about it. not throw tid bits out there for us to mull over and second
guess,
you do yourself a great disservice by doing this.
molest me not with this banter any longer.



-- 
Shaun Oliver
"Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
YAHOO: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
AIM: captain nemo 200
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman
CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

I get up on my "soap box" and none of you seem to aprove
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on Mon, Oct
20, 2003 at 09:18:10PM -0400,
> > I realize what speakup is all about and it seems this release is met
with
> > such hostility.  Again, I say you may email the one in charge of the
alsa
> > project with your doubts
>
> kevin piss off unsubscribe take you babble elsewhere. I'm getting sick
> of reading this thread.
> I'm to the point now where I'm just about ready to add you to my
> blacklist in spamassassin.
> you've totally missed the point.
> the point is you wanna create something, you get up on your soap box
> about it. not throw tid bits out there for us to mull over and second
> guess,
> you do yourself a great disservice by doing this.
> molest me not with this banter any longer.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
you have to kiss tomorrow!"
>
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
> YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> AIM: captain nemo 200
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile
#mauisun
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

I will make this easy for you.  I will compile my own tutorial of sorts on
the product and email you the file if you wish.  And I do not mean to insult
anyone's intelligence
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> Sorry I don't mean to drag this one, but what in the hell are you
> rambling on about. I could care less and I'm sure others would agree
> what your role is. WHat value does this suposed tool you have been so
> vaig about have. Why can't you just answer the questions we've asked.
> WHy must you make this so damned difficult, insult our intelligence, and
> just generally be annoying. WHy can't you just answer the question and
> you'd not have to be concerned about a war. Answer the question that's
> all you have to do its that simple. GOt back and read your original post
> and the subsequent posts asking questions and answer them. If this is a
> tool that folks can benefit form then tell the world, don't make this so
> painful, I don't see how you benefit. Man your a strange duck, geez take
> this chance to tell us what a great thing this is, you know blow your
> horn.
> I'll stop posting on this topic now.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 11:05:02PM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > I did not mean to start a war.  Hmmm, if I am not in the readme files I
can
> > send you the email link for the one in charge of alsa.  It will be
> > straightened out I am sure.
> > Kevin
> > email:
> > kjsisco@rcn.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> >
> >
> > > I dont' want to keep the flames alive here, but to be honest I looked
at
> > > all the "readme" type files and I didn't see your name in there Kevin
> > > and I wasn't sure just by reading over this stuff how any of these
apps
> > > would do any good. I know I didn't read anything that discussed screen
> > > readers etc. Speakup or otherwise.
> > > Maybe its me, but maybe not.
> > > And if there's any truth to what is quoted below, please don't do that
> > > its just not a good thing. You give so little specifics, information,
> > > and the answers to my questions have all be off the mark.
> > > Telling me I had to ahve this set of tools doesn't mean anything to me
I
> > > like to know more and you just insisted I download it because I needed
> > > it.
> > > I doubt this to be the case Kevin.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 02:38:05PM +1000, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> > > > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there
of
> > > > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather
than
> > > > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > > > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

Well, at the risk of over doing my comments ...

Kevin, your use of the mdi acronym is just as obscure. Checking with the
technical dictionaries, I find two definitions for mdi:

multiple document interface
multiple device interface

I still don't know which you mean.

Shaun Oliver writes:
> From: Shaun Oliver <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> 
> at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, 
> > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
> > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
> > This solves alot of issues.
> 
> I've never read so much faeces in my entire life.
> kevin, we're not using a gui nore will we be any time soon. well, some
> of us might be to play with gnopernicus but that's a different kettle of
> fish.
> there's no mdi on the console. not to my knowledge anyway.
> do us a favour and stop sprouting pure unadulterated bunkum.
> well may you ask why doth he flame so?
> it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there of
> where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather than
> create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> 
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> 
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
> YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> AIM: captain nemo 200
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

Actually the first deffiniton is the right one.  Multiple document
interface.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> Well, at the risk of over doing my comments ...
>
> Kevin, your use of the mdi acronym is just as obscure. Checking with the
> technical dictionaries, I find two definitions for mdi:
>
> multiple document interface
> multiple device interface
>
> I still don't know which you mean.
>
> Shaun Oliver writes:
> > From: Shaun Oliver <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> >
> > at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on Sun,
Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400,
> > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.
Also,
> > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as
mdi.)
> > > This solves alot of issues.
> >
> > I've never read so much faeces in my entire life.
> > kevin, we're not using a gui nore will we be any time soon. well, some
> > of us might be to play with gnopernicus but that's a different kettle of
> > fish.
> > there's no mdi on the console. not to my knowledge anyway.
> > do us a favour and stop sprouting pure unadulterated bunkum.
> > well may you ask why doth he flame so?
> > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there of
> > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather than
> > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> >
> > -- 
> > Shaun Oliver
> > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> >
> > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > ICQ: 76958435
> > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > IRCNICK: blindman
> > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
#audiofile #mauisun
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

And, how were we supposed to know that?


kevin writes:
> From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> 
> Actually the first deffiniton is the right one.  Multiple document
> interface.
> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 11:07 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > Well, at the risk of over doing my comments ...
> >
> > Kevin, your use of the mdi acronym is just as obscure. Checking with the
> > technical dictionaries, I find two definitions for mdi:
> >
> > multiple document interface
> > multiple device interface
> >
> > I still don't know which you mean.
> >
> > Shaun Oliver writes:
> > > From: Shaun Oliver <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > >
> > > at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on Sun,
> Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400,
> > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> > > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.
> Also,
> > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as
> mdi.)
> > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > >
> > > I've never read so much faeces in my entire life.
> > > kevin, we're not using a gui nore will we be any time soon. well, some
> > > of us might be to play with gnopernicus but that's a different kettle of
> > > fish.
> > > there's no mdi on the console. not to my knowledge anyway.
> > > do us a favour and stop sprouting pure unadulterated bunkum.
> > > well may you ask why doth he flame so?
> > > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there of
> > > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather than
> > > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Shaun Oliver
> > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
> you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > >
> > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
> #audiofile #mauisun
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

RE: new alsa-tools releases!

[Sina Bahram]

I believe he was just clarifying. That's all. Since we didn't know that.
he clarified the definition.

Take care,
Sina


-----Original Message-----
From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]
On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:59 AM
To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


And, how were we supposed to know that?


kevin writes:
> From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> 
> Actually the first deffiniton is the right one.  Multiple document 
> interface. Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 11:07 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > Well, at the risk of over doing my comments ...
> >
> > Kevin, your use of the mdi acronym is just as obscure. Checking with

> > the technical dictionaries, I find two definitions for mdi:
> >
> > multiple document interface
> > multiple device interface
> >
> > I still don't know which you mean.
> >
> > Shaun Oliver writes:
> > > From: Shaun Oliver <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > >
> > > at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on 
> > > Sun,
> Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400,
> > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in 
> > > > speakup because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky

> > > > with that.
> Also,
> > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such 
> > > > as
> mdi.)
> > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > >
> > > I've never read so much faeces in my entire life.
> > > kevin, we're not using a gui nore will we be any time soon. well, 
> > > some of us might be to play with gnopernicus but that's a 
> > > different kettle of fish. there's no mdi on the console. not to my

> > > knowledge anyway. do us a favour and stop sprouting pure 
> > > unadulterated bunkum. well may you ask why doth he flame so?
> > > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack
there of
> > > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather
than
> > > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're
behind.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shaun Oliver
> > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to
the ass
> you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > >
> > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
> #audiofile #mauisun
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

Sina Bahram writes:
> From: "Sina Bahram" <sbahram@nc.rr.com>
> 
> I believe he was just clarifying. That's all. Since we didn't know that.
> he clarified the definition.
> 
Well indeed. But my point was that we shouldn't have to tease any of
this out of him.

I feel like a lawyer at the prosecutor's table. I shouldn't have to do
that.


> Take care,
> Sina
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca]
> On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:59 AM
> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> And, how were we supposed to know that?
> 
> 
> kevin writes:
> > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> > 
> > Actually the first deffiniton is the right one.  Multiple document 
> > interface. Kevin
> > email:
> > kjsisco@rcn.com
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 11:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> > 
> > 
> > > Well, at the risk of over doing my comments ...
> > >
> > > Kevin, your use of the mdi acronym is just as obscure. Checking with
> 
> > > the technical dictionaries, I find two definitions for mdi:
> > >
> > > multiple document interface
> > > multiple device interface
> > >
> > > I still don't know which you mean.
> > >
> > > Shaun Oliver writes:
> > > > From: Shaun Oliver <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > > >
> > > > at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on 
> > > > Sun,
> > Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400,
> > > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in 
> > > > > speakup because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky
> 
> > > > > with that.
> > Also,
> > > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such 
> > > > > as
> > mdi.)
> > > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > >
> > > > I've never read so much faeces in my entire life.
> > > > kevin, we're not using a gui nore will we be any time soon. well, 
> > > > some of us might be to play with gnopernicus but that's a 
> > > > different kettle of fish. there's no mdi on the console. not to my
> 
> > > > knowledge anyway. do us a favour and stop sprouting pure 
> > > > unadulterated bunkum. well may you ask why doth he flame so?
> > > > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack
> there of
> > > > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather
> than
> > > > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > > > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're
> behind.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Shaun Oliver
> > > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to
> the ass
> > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > > >
> > > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
> > #audiofile #mauisun
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka
> > > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > http://www.afb.org
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > > Free Standards Group
> > > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca 
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 	
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net		
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

Tut Tut
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> And, how were we supposed to know that?
>
>
> kevin writes:
> > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> >
> > Actually the first deffiniton is the right one.  Multiple document
> > interface.
> > Kevin
> > email:
> > kjsisco@rcn.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 11:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> >
> >
> > > Well, at the risk of over doing my comments ...
> > >
> > > Kevin, your use of the mdi acronym is just as obscure. Checking with
the
> > > technical dictionaries, I find two definitions for mdi:
> > >
> > > multiple document interface
> > > multiple device interface
> > >
> > > I still don't know which you mean.
> > >
> > > Shaun Oliver writes:
> > > > From: Shaun Oliver <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > > >
> > > > at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on
Sun,
> > Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400,
> > > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in
speakup
> > > > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with
that.
> > Also,
> > > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as
> > mdi.)
> > > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > >
> > > > I've never read so much faeces in my entire life.
> > > > kevin, we're not using a gui nore will we be any time soon. well,
some
> > > > of us might be to play with gnopernicus but that's a different
kettle of
> > > > fish.
> > > > there's no mdi on the console. not to my knowledge anyway.
> > > > do us a favour and stop sprouting pure unadulterated bunkum.
> > > > well may you ask why doth he flame so?
> > > > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there
of
> > > > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather
than
> > > > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > > > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> > > >
> > > > -- 
> > > > Shaun Oliver
> > > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the
ass
> > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > > >
> > > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
> > #audiofile #mauisun
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > -- 
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka
> > > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > http://www.afb.org
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > > Free Standards Group
> > > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

kevin writes:
> From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> 
> Tut Tut

Hmmm. I think I have another entry to my kill file.

> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:59 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > And, how were we supposed to know that?
> >
> >
> > kevin writes:
> > > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> > >
> > > Actually the first deffiniton is the right one.  Multiple document
> > > interface.
> > > Kevin
> > > email:
> > > kjsisco@rcn.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 11:07 AM
> > > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well, at the risk of over doing my comments ...
> > > >
> > > > Kevin, your use of the mdi acronym is just as obscure. Checking with
> the
> > > > technical dictionaries, I find two definitions for mdi:
> > > >
> > > > multiple document interface
> > > > multiple device interface
> > > >
> > > > I still don't know which you mean.
> > > >
> > > > Shaun Oliver writes:
> > > > > From: Shaun Oliver <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > > > >
> > > > > at the risk of being helpful, kevin delivered up the following on
> Sun,
> > > Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400,
> > > > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in
> speakup
> > > > > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with
> that.
> > > Also,
> > > > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as
> > > mdi.)
> > > > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've never read so much faeces in my entire life.
> > > > > kevin, we're not using a gui nore will we be any time soon. well,
> some
> > > > > of us might be to play with gnopernicus but that's a different
> kettle of
> > > > > fish.
> > > > > there's no mdi on the console. not to my knowledge anyway.
> > > > > do us a favour and stop sprouting pure unadulterated bunkum.
> > > > > well may you ask why doth he flame so?
> > > > > it's simple. unless you're prepared to put your money or lack there
> of
> > > > > where your mouth is, and let us know exactly what you did rather
> than
> > > > > create some ficticious app, and want to gain some recoginision for
> > > > > something someone else did, I suggest you quit while you're behind.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > Shaun Oliver
> > > > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the
> ass
> > > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > > > >
> > > > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
> > > #audiofile #mauisun
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > -- 
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka
> > > > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > > > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > http://www.afb.org
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > > > Free Standards Group
> > > > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Shaun Oliver]

at the risk of being helpful, Janina Sajka delivered up the following on Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 11:39:07AM -0400, 
> kevin writes:
> > From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> > 
> > Tut Tut
> 
> Hmmm. I think I have another entry to my kill file.
> 

I'd do what I did. forget about kill file,
blacklist_from kjsisco@rcn.com
put it in yer local.cf for spamassassin. I did hahahaha.



-- 
Shaun Oliver
"Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
YAHOO: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
AIM: captain nemo 200
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman
CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Scott Howell]

Kevin,

Are you referring to frames found on web pages? How will SPeakup know 
about this tool? SPeakup would have to know something about this tool so 
is this something that will be loaded by the user or what?

tnx


On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, kevin wrote:
> The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
> you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
> This solves alot of issues.
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Alex Snow]

and what does alsa have to do with speakup?
On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 
07:12:23AM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> Kevin,
> 
> Are you referring to frames found on web pages? How will SPeakup know 
> about this tool? SPeakup would have to know something about this tool so 
> is this something that will be loaded by the user or what?
> 
> tnx
> 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
> > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
> > This solves alot of issues.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Shaun Oliver]

forget it guys he's bullshitting the lot of us.
alsa stands for advance linux sound architecture. for those of you who
don't know.
so what the fuck sound ggot to do with frames I'm buggered if I know.
he's talking defining frames on a gui app
god sakes.
let's drop this it's a crock of shit.


at the risk of being
helpful, Alex Snow delivered up the following on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 08:39:51AM -0400, 
> and what does alsa have to do with speakup?
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 
> 07:12:23AM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> > Kevin,
> > 
> > Are you referring to frames found on web pages? How will SPeakup know 
> > about this tool? SPeakup would have to know something about this tool so 
> > is this something that will be loaded by the user or what?
> > 
> > tnx
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
> > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
> > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Shaun Oliver
"Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
YAHOO: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
AIM: captain nemo 200
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman
CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Alex Snow]

and a quick grep of the sourcetree doesn't come up with his name 
anywhere...
On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 10:46:20PM +1000, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> forget it guys he's bullshitting the lot of us.
> alsa stands for advance linux sound architecture. for those of you who
> don't know.
> so what the fuck sound ggot to do with frames I'm buggered if I know.
> he's talking defining frames on a gui app
> god sakes.
> let's drop this it's a crock of shit.
> 
> 
> at the risk of being
> helpful, Alex Snow delivered up the following on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 08:39:51AM -0400, 
> > and what does alsa have to do with speakup?
> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 
> > 07:12:23AM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> > > Kevin,
> > > 
> > > Are you referring to frames found on web pages? How will SPeakup know 
> > > about this tool? SPeakup would have to know something about this tool so 
> > > is this something that will be loaded by the user or what?
> > > 
> > > tnx
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> > > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
> > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
> > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > -- 
> > Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> 
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
> YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> AIM: captain nemo 200
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

Indeed I believe the use of language is not required.  I assure you I am not
leading you astray.  Ask any programmer about gui frameviewing as it relates
to sound.  I can tell you I am not feeding you a load of "bull", as it were.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> forget it guys he's bullshitting the lot of us.
> alsa stands for advance linux sound architecture. for those of you who
> don't know.
> so what the fuck sound ggot to do with frames I'm buggered if I know.
> he's talking defining frames on a gui app
> god sakes.
> let's drop this it's a crock of shit.
>
>
> at the risk of being
> helpful, Alex Snow delivered up the following on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at
08:39:51AM -0400,
> > and what does alsa have to do with speakup?
> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at
> > 07:12:23AM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> > > Kevin,
> > >
> > > Are you referring to frames found on web pages? How will SPeakup know
> > > about this tool? SPeakup would have to know something about this tool
so
> > > is this something that will be loaded by the user or what?
> > >
> > > tnx
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in
speakup
> > > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.
Also,
> > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as
mdi.)
> > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > -- 
> > Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
you have to kiss tomorrow!"
>
> EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> ICQ: 76958435
> YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> AIM: captain nemo 200
> IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> IRCNICK: blindman
> CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile
#mauisun
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Keith Watson]

Ok guys, I have a suggestion. Let's ignore the ignorant! My 
understanding of the anacronym gui is graphical user interface. 
As far as I know, and Kirk correct me if I am wrong, speakup DOES 
NOT operate ina graphical user interface environment. But hey 
that's just my understanding of the subject. I could be wrong and 
this idiot could be right. NOT!

So as a suggestion, unless he sends on some sort of proof in the 
way of documentation himself and quits suggesting that we waste 
the time and effort to validate his claims, I believe that we 
should just ignore the ignorant.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Keith

On 10:56 PM, kevin wrote:
> Indeed I believe the use of language is not required.  I assure you I am not
> leading you astray.  Ask any programmer about gui frameviewing as it relates
> to sound.  I can tell you I am not feeding you a load of "bull", as it were.
> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:46 AM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > forget it guys he's bullshitting the lot of us.
> > alsa stands for advance linux sound architecture. for those of you who
> > don't know.
> > so what the fuck sound ggot to do with frames I'm buggered if I know.
> > he's talking defining frames on a gui app
> > god sakes.
> > let's drop this it's a crock of shit.
> >
> >
> > at the risk of being
> > helpful, Alex Snow delivered up the following on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at
> 08:39:51AM -0400,
> > > and what does alsa have to do with speakup?
> > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at
> > > 07:12:23AM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> > > > Kevin,
> > > >
> > > > Are you referring to frames found on web pages? How will SPeakup know
> > > > about this tool? SPeakup would have to know something about this tool
> so
> > > > is this something that will be loaded by the user or what?
> > > >
> > > > tnx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in
> speakup
> > > > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.
> Also,
> > > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as
> mdi.)
> > > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > -- 
> > Shaun Oliver
> > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass
> you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> >
> > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > ICQ: 76958435
> > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > IRCNICK: blindman
> > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile
> #mauisun
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Keith Watson
kwatson@smed.yi.org

Among the major impediments to discovery are not the ignorant
but those with illusions of knowledge.    - B. Alan Wallace

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Shaun Oliver]

at the risk of being helpful, Keith Watson delivered up the following on Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 06:47:29AM -0400, 
> Ok guys, I have a suggestion. Let's ignore the ignorant! My 
> understanding of the anacronym gui is graphical user interface. 
> As far as I know, and Kirk correct me if I am wrong, speakup DOES 
> NOT operate ina graphical user interface environment. But hey 
> that's just my understanding of the subject. I could be wrong and 
> this idiot could be right. NOT!
> 
> So as a suggestion, unless he sends on some sort of proof in the 
> way of documentation himself and quits suggesting that we waste 
> the time and effort to validate his claims, I believe that we 
> should just ignore the ignorant.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.
> 
> Keith
> 
HERE HERE!


-- 
Shaun Oliver
"Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!"

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435
YAHOO: blindman01_2000
MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
AIM: captain nemo 200
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman
CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld #audiofile #mauisun

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

You gave me a verry good idea.  No one believes me?  Try it for yourselves.
You heard me, it won't kill you to try it out.  It will not harm your
machines I assure you.
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Watson" <Kwatson@smed.yi.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> Ok guys, I have a suggestion. Let's ignore the ignorant! My
> understanding of the anacronym gui is graphical user interface.
> As far as I know, and Kirk correct me if I am wrong, speakup DOES
> NOT operate ina graphical user interface environment. But hey
> that's just my understanding of the subject. I could be wrong and
> this idiot could be right. NOT!
>
> So as a suggestion, unless he sends on some sort of proof in the
> way of documentation himself and quits suggesting that we waste
> the time and effort to validate his claims, I believe that we
> should just ignore the ignorant.
>
> Just my 2 cents worth.
>
> Keith
>
> On 10:56 PM, kevin wrote:
> > Indeed I believe the use of language is not required.  I assure you I am
not
> > leading you astray.  Ask any programmer about gui frameviewing as it
relates
> > to sound.  I can tell you I am not feeding you a load of "bull", as it
were.
> > Kevin
> > email:
> > kjsisco@rcn.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> >
> >
> > > forget it guys he's bullshitting the lot of us.
> > > alsa stands for advance linux sound architecture. for those of you who
> > > don't know.
> > > so what the fuck sound ggot to do with frames I'm buggered if I know.
> > > he's talking defining frames on a gui app
> > > god sakes.
> > > let's drop this it's a crock of shit.
> > >
> > >
> > > at the risk of being
> > > helpful, Alex Snow delivered up the following on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at
> > 08:39:51AM -0400,
> > > > and what does alsa have to do with speakup?
> > > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at
> > > > 07:12:23AM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> > > > > Kevin,
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you referring to frames found on web pages? How will SPeakup
know
> > > > > about this tool? SPeakup would have to know something about this
tool
> > so
> > > > > is this something that will be loaded by the user or what?
> > > > >
> > > > > tnx
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > > > > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in
> > speakup
> > > > > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with
that.
> > Also,
> > > > > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such
as
> > mdi.)
> > > > > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > -- 
> > > > Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > Shaun Oliver
> > > "Becareful of the toes u step on today, they maybe connected to the
ass
> > you have to kiss tomorrow!"
> > >
> > > EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > ICQ: 76958435
> > > YAHOO: blindman01_2000
> > > MSN: blindman_2001@hotmail.com
> > > AIM: captain nemo 200
> > > IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
> > > IRCNICK: blindman
> > > CHANNELS: #awesomeradio #mircpopup-magic #linux #help #ourworld
#audiofile
> > #mauisun
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
> Keith Watson
> kwatson@smed.yi.org
>
> Among the major impediments to discovery are not the ignorant
> but those with illusions of knowledge.    - B. Alan Wallace
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[kevin]

Alsa, if you do not know stands for advanced linux sound architecture
Kevin
email:
kjsisco@rcn.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Snow" <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!


> and what does alsa have to do with speakup?
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at
> 07:12:23AM -0400, Scott Howell wrote:
> > Kevin,
> >
> > Are you referring to frames found on web pages? How will SPeakup know
> > about this tool? SPeakup would have to know something about this tool so
> > is this something that will be loaded by the user or what?
> >
> > tnx
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:24:54AM -0400, kevin wrote:
> > > The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> > > because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.
Also,
> > > you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as
mdi.)
> > > This solves alot of issues.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
> Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Janina Sajka]

I want you to understand that I'm doing my very best to be patient with
you. But, you're not providing any answers that I can understand. I
don't think you intend to be unhelpful, I think quite the opposite.
However, you are, in effect, being something you don't intend to be.

Your answer to the frames question below is an excellent example. Ryan
asked you what frames have to do with alsa-tools. He explicitly stated
that frames are something to do with web browsers as he understands the
term.

So, if you come back and start talking about what speakup does or
doesn't do about frames, you haven't answered his question. In order to
answer it, you need first to provide a definition. What kind of frame
are you talking about? What is it? How is it used? What applications
work with it? What is the difference between the way things were, and
the way they are after your code was introduced.

You may know these answers, but you shouldn't go around assuming that
everyone else has that knowledge in their heads. People are all
different. We all have very different things in each of our heads. Some
of us may be very technically capable with computers and still not have
a clue of what you're talking about.

I guess I resemble that last remark of mine.

kevin writes:
> From: "kevin" <kjsisco@rcn.com>
> 
> The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
> you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
> This solves alot of issues.
> Kevin
> email:
> kjsisco@rcn.com
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ryan Mann" <rmann@rmisp.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 8:33 PM
> Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> 
> 
> > I also have a question.  What is the frame viewer?  This sounds like
> > something to do with a web browser and I don't know what the ALSA tools
> > have to do with that.
> > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >
> > > kevin writes:
> > > >
> > > > Well I will admit that speakup may not be ready for such technology,
> but I
> > > > assure you I did much more than pull them together
> > >
> > > Kevin:
> > >
> > > I still don't understand you. The alsa-tools package uncompresses to
> > > show the following directories:
> > >
> > >
> > > ac3dec/  as10k1/    envy24control/  hdsploader/  sb16_csp/  seq/
> sscape_ctl/
> > > t vxloader/
> > >
> > > So, which one are you talking about?
> > >
> > > And, how do I use it? I understand about compiling, but I'm just not
> > > clear what you're talking about.
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Scott Howell" <showell@lrxms.net>
> > > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 5:49 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: new alsa-tools releases!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Yes Kevin, I had a look over the tools and after I had asked you
> about
> > > > > them in an E-mail you told me I must get them as they were somehow
> > > > > important to Speakup.
> > > > > Well to be honest I grabbed the package, read over the readme files,
> and
> > > > > honestly couldn't find anything in there that would be of any use to
> me.
> > > > > Of course this is me personally, but maybe I'm missing something.
> Looks
> > > > > like these packages were put together by others so you just pulled
> them
> > > > > together?
> > > > >
> > > > > tnx
> > > > >
> > > > > Scott
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: new alsa-tools releases!

[Toby Fisher]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, kevin wrote:

> The frameviewer allows frames to be more easily recognized in speakup
> because let's be honist.  Screen readers are a bit shaky with that.  Also,
> you can specify which type of interface in an application (such as mdi.)
> This solves alot of issues.

Some questions:

1.  What issues, exactly?
2.  If this is to do with Speakup, what's it doing in Alsa 
tools/drivers/utils, which, btw, is it anyway as you keep changing your 
mind?
3.  Why are you b eing so deliberately vague about this wonderful piece of 
software you've produced?

I'm asking this out of interest, because if there's something useful then 
I'd like to be able to use it, but am not prepared to waste my time on 
something that the package author can't give clear specs for.

Oh yes, one final question:

4.  Are you trying to be a troll?

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@tjfisher.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html