Re: down for the count

Re: down for the count

[Buddy Brannan]

I like Frankie's suggestions. Don't know about Fujitsu hard drives, but the
one in my current system is an IBM, and it's doing a great job! Oh, and
it's very quiet, unlike this one Western Digital 2.1GB drive I have which
is *not* quiet at all. 

Think my next system, unless it's 64-bit processor time by the time I do a
new one, will be an Athlon. ... 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
Email: davros@ycardz.com
Voice mail: 877-791-5298
All opinions are all mine!

Re: down for the count

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Thanks, Frankie... The jury is still out on whether this baby can be
recussitated. I have been able to squeeze a lot of performance out of a
minimum system for too many years now, and I kind of hope it is hopeless! My
first impulse was to give up "doing it myself" and buy it already done for
me, but I am not going to do that after all. This old box of mine actually
has a bunch of new components - an 8G hard drive, an AWE64 card, a fast CD
(though it doesn't write) -- mostly it is short on the processor and memory
side. Depending on the diagnosis it might make the most sense to keep the
quality components and give it a new engine. I really did a number on my
file system though, so it looks like I will finally ditch this Slackware 4.0
distro that I have been using.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Chuck.

Re: down for the count

[Frank J. Carmickle]

> I like Frankie's suggestions. Don't know about Fujitsu hard drives, but the
> one in my current system is an IBM, and it's doing a great job! Oh, and
> it's very quiet, unlike this one Western Digital 2.1GB drive I have which
> is *not* quiet at all. 

Well the Fujitsu's take the cake for being the quietest drives.  When I
got mine I thought that it wasn't working cause it was so quiet.  Unless
it is doing some rw you can't hear it.  I have never heard a 7200 rpm
drive from them though.  But the crazy computer geeks over at
tomshardware.com say that they are the quietest also.  They also have a
kick ass worenty.  If anything goes wrong with the drive for any reason
they will replace it with in two business days with in the first three to
five years depending on which moddel you get.  Enough of my Fujitsu plug
here.

FC

Re: down for the count

[Brent Harding]

I like drives that make some noise, especially with windows, as with no
sound, it is hard to tell when the boot process stops.
At 04:21 PM 10/2/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I like Frankie's suggestions. Don't know about Fujitsu hard drives, but the
>one in my current system is an IBM, and it's doing a great job! Oh, and
>it's very quiet, unlike this one Western Digital 2.1GB drive I have which
>is *not* quiet at all. 
>
>Think my next system, unless it's 64-bit processor time by the time I do a
>new one, will be an Athlon. ... 
>
>--
>Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV
>Email: davros@ycardz.com
>Voice mail: 877-791-5298
>All opinions are all mine!
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: down for the count

[Victor Tsaran]

Well, I can personally confirm good experiences with Western Digital drives.
My 72RPM AT66-capable 20GB drive is the quietest I've ever heard. Didn't
fail me once.
Best,
Vic

******* ******* *******
have you thought of visiting Cybertsar's Internet Kingdom? It is still
alive!
Here is the URL:
http://nimbus.ocis.temple.edu/~vtsaran/
******* ******* *******
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank J. Carmickle" <frankiec@braille.uwo.ca>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: down for the count


> > I like Frankie's suggestions. Don't know about Fujitsu hard drives, but
the
> > one in my current system is an IBM, and it's doing a great job! Oh, and
> > it's very quiet, unlike this one Western Digital 2.1GB drive I have
which
> > is *not* quiet at all.
>
> Well the Fujitsu's take the cake for being the quietest drives.  When I
> got mine I thought that it wasn't working cause it was so quiet.  Unless
> it is doing some rw you can't hear it.  I have never heard a 7200 rpm
> drive from them though.  But the crazy computer geeks over at
> tomshardware.com say that they are the quietest also.  They also have a
> kick ass worenty.  If anything goes wrong with the drive for any reason
> they will replace it with in two business days with in the first three to
> five years depending on which moddel you get.  Enough of my Fujitsu plug
> here.
>
> FC
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: down for the count

[Frank J. Carmickle]

Hi Chuck

I would strongly suggest not going with a prebuilt system.  That is my
personal preference.  I like Asus mother boards micron memory fujitsu hard
drives and sblive is the best consumer audio card right now.  If you build
your own system you can get the thing that you want.  If you buy someones
prebuilt system you will get parts that they can get cheep.  I also like
buying a nice case.  Sometimes big companies cases are nice and sometimes
they are really crappy.  Depending on your budget I would go with either
an Athlon or a K62 or K63.  Right now you can get the Asus a7v for around
$140 and the 800mhz thunderbird athlon for around $160.  And if your
afraid to put it together yourself don't be.  If you can get some sighted
asistance for an hour you will have no problem getting it all put
together.  These new boards are jumperless and you don't need to really
set much in the bios.  

Just my $0.02.  If you need any help just drop me a line.  I would love to
help any way I can.

Frank

Re: down for the count

[rturner2]

hi chuck,
i am very sorry to hear about your system,
i have been using slackware 7.1
i baught the cdroms about 4 months ago
and i found it very easy to install using speakup.
i hope that you are able to get back up and running soon.
randy

Re: down for the count

[Kirk Wood]

Actually, many times you do end up paying for a M$ liscence anyway, but at
least your making a statement about it. You see M$ offers (or used to
offer) a lower cost per lisense if one was purchased for every machine
produced. This was supposed to be on account of easier auditing. But the
US government called it monopoly manipulation. I don't know if M$
continues the practice or if Dell is bound by such a deal. Again, part of
the M$ stratagy of hiding what companies pay for a lisense so they can
shaft some.

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

Seek simplicity -- and distrust it.
		Alfred North Whitehead

Re: down for the count

[Kirk Wood]

Victor,

The problem of dependancies when selecting individual packages is exactly
the problem I am talking about. The fact is, that all distros have this
same kind of thing going on (as far as I have seen). You don't have
something that raises red flags when selecting individual packages to let
you know about dependancy requirements.

My ideal situation would allow you to go through individual packages
(grouped by what they do) and select them. It would then either
automatically take care of dependancies (with a way to see what was
automatically selected) or just keep a list of unfulfilled
dependancies. Ideally it would allow you to see just how many packages
were resting on a dependancy. (As an example you might see a lot of
packages requiring libc but only one or two requireing a more obscure
library.)

I would also use this oportunity to allow you to sellect what server to
install if you say you would like to have smtp server. Most distros of
course select sendmail for this. They figure it does everything. But many
people don't need everything.

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

Seek simplicity -- and distrust it.
		Alfred North Whitehead

Re: down for the count

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

The other thing about buying a machine without windows on it is that you
aren't sending any more money in microsoft's direction... which sounds like
a good reason to me.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: down for the count

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

With debian, you can look at the package lists and see the dependancies for
those packages.  So if you really wanted to install just the ones you
needed, you could browse the package lists and make a note of the ones you
need.  I've not done a debian install for awhile but I think you can
manually select the packages you want, then debian should deal with the
dependancies anyway, so you shouldn't need to do this.  How people running
other distros know what they need installed to run stuff is sometimes
beyond me.

Geoff.


-- 
Geoff Shang <gshang10@scu.edu.au>
ICQ number 43634701

Re: down for the count

[Victor Tsaran]

Kirk, when you install Redhat, you're given choices to choose which packages
(individually) you want to install. Don't you dare to dissellect the package
that is dependent on some other package, and you're in trouble. Of course,
if you sellected default install, Redhat will decide for you, but isn't that
the case with all default installations?
Best,
Vic

******* ******* *******
have you thought of visiting Cybertsar's Internet Kingdom? It is still
alive!
Here is the URL:
http://nimbus.ocis.temple.edu/~vtsaran/
******* ******* *******
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Wood" <cpt.kirk@1tree.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: down for the count


> Without trying to slam anyone, I would not take an install problem on one
> machine to mean much. I also wouldn't take a lack of install problem to
> mean much. I can truthfully say I have never had a problem installing
> Winblows 3.x on a machine (and did it many times). Anyone care to say it
> is superior?
>
> I have had trouble with a Slackware install. But I also worked through
> said install. As for the problems in maintaining RedHat, I think the
> problem that some run into is trying too hard. I have installed both RPM
> and the compile thing. For some, RPM is easier. For others, it will lead
> to problems later. (Domn, that is starting to sound like so many other
> things with computers and life in general.) But for most things, there are
> straight forward tools to do your configuration for you. My complaint
> about RedHat is that you get many things installed that you don't know
> about. Then again, I think that a great thing would be a database with all
> dependancies listed for each package. Yea, I know RPMs provide that (in
> theory). But there is no tool (for any distro I have seen) that allows one
> to plan ahead seeing all dependancies and configure the system to install
> just the way you want it minus perhaps the settings.
>
> I think going with a preconfigured machine is a good idea. It won't take
> any longer to wipe out the installed OS then if you get one with
> Winblows. I mean really, fdisk covers a multitude of sins. If you know you
> are going to run linux and that is an option for the machine it makes
> sense. You can always blow it away and install a different distro. (And
> you can later do the same thing to that distro. I know it is obvious, but
> too often it is forgotten.)
>
> --
> Kirk Wood
> Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
> ------------------
>
> Seek simplicity -- and distrust it.
> Alfred North Whitehead
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: down for the count

[Kirk Wood]

Without trying to slam anyone, I would not take an install problem on one
machine to mean much. I also wouldn't take a lack of install problem to
mean much. I can truthfully say I have never had a problem installing
Winblows 3.x on a machine (and did it many times). Anyone care to say it
is superior?

I have had trouble with a Slackware install. But I also worked through
said install. As for the problems in maintaining RedHat, I think the
problem that some run into is trying too hard. I have installed both RPM
and the compile thing. For some, RPM is easier. For others, it will lead
to problems later. (Domn, that is starting to sound like so many other
things with computers and life in general.) But for most things, there are
straight forward tools to do your configuration for you. My complaint
about RedHat is that you get many things installed that you don't know
about. Then again, I think that a great thing would be a database with all
dependancies listed for each package. Yea, I know RPMs provide that (in
theory). But there is no tool (for any distro I have seen) that allows one
to plan ahead seeing all dependancies and configure the system to install
just the way you want it minus perhaps the settings.

I think going with a preconfigured machine is a good idea. It won't take
any longer to wipe out the installed OS then if you get one with
Winblows. I mean really, fdisk covers a multitude of sins. If you know you
are going to run linux and that is an option for the machine it makes
sense. You can always blow it away and install a different distro. (And
you can later do the same thing to that distro. I know it is obvious, but
too often it is forgotten.)

-- 
Kirk Wood
Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net
------------------

Seek simplicity -- and distrust it.
		Alfred North Whitehead

Re: down for the count

[Jacob Schmude]

Hi
	No, I was not. Install went smoothly for a normal system, but
booting produced that message. I couldn't find a reason for it.. But
that's getting out of the scope of this subject.

On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Kerry Hoath wrote:

> I won't respond to all points in the mail since I don't want to start a
> distribution war all over again, surfice it to say; I'll agree to disagree
> with most of your points.
> Regarding the init respawning too fast, I assume you were trying to set up
> a serial console? If this is the case and you forget
> to load the serial module you'll get this behaviour.

Re: down for the count

[Kerry Hoath]

I won't respond to all points in the mail since I don't want to start a
distribution war all over again, surfice it to say; I'll agree to disagree
with most of your points.
Regarding the init respawning too fast, I assume you were trying to set up
a serial console? If this is the case and you forget
to load the serial module you'll get this behaviour.
On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 12:07:08PM -0400, Jacob Schmude wrote:
> Hi
> 	This is mearly my own personal experiences, but I think you'd be
> better off with slackware. I have gotten debian to install, but it's a
> somewhat tricky process. I tried it recently, though, and it wouldn't boot
> correctly on the upgraded machine. I kept getting the message
> init: respawning too fast, disabled for five minutes. I don't know what
> this means, but slackware does not seem to do this. I've always been able
> to install slackware flawlessly and am happily running it perfectly.
> 	The good side of debian, assuming you get it to work, is the
> package manager. It handles packages very nicely indeed, certainly better
> than rpm or any other packager. dependencies are taken care of for you
> automatically, and you can upgrade the whol thing through the net with two
> commands. However, I've found slackware to be more convenient, especially
> it's init structure. I find the system V init-style scripts used by debian
> and red hat annoying. Slackware has about four scripts, which you edit
> manually. Debian's number varies depending on how many packages you
> install, and then you need to worry about symlinks. I hate the runlevel
> directories, there's symlinks all over the place. Six directories to
> manage instead of one. I know debian has update-rc.d, but it has failed me
> before. Slackware also has System V init capability in version 7.0 and
> later, which is useful if you install some commercial software that
> expects this init style, but the main init is through four scripts,
> sometimes five.
> 	What I find most annoying about debian, however, is the fact that
> you can't edit /etc/mailcap manually. It just gets overwritten. You need
> to go in and create a file in /usr/lib/mime/packages containing the lines
> and then run update-mime. However, you can't name the file anything, it
> needs to be the name of an already installed package. This does not apply
> to any other distribution I know of. Of course the problem with this is
> that if that package wants to place its own version of a file there, it
> will and if your options are set wrong, will do this without warning
> you. You may get asked, or you may not. It depends.
> 
> Jacob
> 
> 
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hi Jacob...
> > 
> > I am torn between upgrading to a current Slackware or switching to Debian. I
> > have not talked to Dell yet so I do not know what what distro they have
> > built in. I am really tired of messing with kludgy hardware and a solid
> > platform would be nice for a change.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
--
Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.eu.org
Alternates: kerry@emusys.com.au kerry@gotss.spice.net.au or khoath@lis.net.au
ICQ UIN: 62823451

Re: down for the count

[Brent Harding]

I was thinking of getting a prebuilt linux machine to run stuff on if I get
high speed access. Which kind are the best to get? I was thinking a dell,
but am not sure now. I hear redhat's OK, but debian really has a time with
compiling odd stuff not in .deb's either. It's different file locations are
such that many programs can't find what they need, and I'm not much at coding.
At 03:36 PM 9/30/00 -0400, you wrote:
>I just want to drop my 0.001 cent in here.
>The company I work for just bought one of the dells with
>linux preinstalled. it was redhat by the way.
>the first console does come up with x-windows,
>but you can change to another virtual console and get a
>text login.
>I had to configure it as a ppp server,
>and it wasn't an easy task. redhat isn't the most friendly
>linux distribution to work with.
>i agree with others here, stick with slackware.
>I run 4 machines with slackware at home,and hav never had
>a problem. whereas at work, I must use redhat,
>and seem to have problems installing any package
>that doesn't happen to come in an rpm package.
>and, i wasn't overly impressed with the dell machine either.
>it came as a desktop machine, and didn't seem to be very upgradable.
>although this may have been the fault of the i t person that ordered it.
>
>phil
>
>On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 02:27:12PM -0600, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
>> 
>> On 2000-09-30 speakup@braille.uwo.ca said:
>>    >Hi
>>    >This is mearly my own personal experiences, but I think you'd be
>>    >better off with slackware. I have gotten debian to install, but
>>    >it's a somewhat tricky process. I tried it recently, though, and it
>>    >wouldn't boot correctly on the upgraded machine. I kept getting the
>>    >message init: respawning too fast, disabled for five minutes. I
>>    >don't know what this means, but slackware does not seem to do this.
>>    >I've always been able to install slackware flawlessly and am
>>    >happily running it perfectly. The good side of debian, assuming you
>>    >get it to work, is the package manager. It handles packages very
>>    >nicely indeed, certainly better than rpm or any other packager.
>>    >dependencies are taken care of for you automatically, and you can
>>    >upgrade the whol thing through the net with two commands. However,
>>    >I've found slackware to be more convenient, especially it's init
>>    >structure. I find the system V init-style scripts used by debian
>>    >and red hat annoying. Slackware has about four scripts, which you
>>    >edit manually. Debian's number varies depending on how many
>>    >packages you install, and then you need to worry about symlinks. I
>>    >hate the runlevel directories, there's symlinks all over the place.
>>    >Six directories to manage instead of one. I know debian has
>>    >update-rc.d, but it has failed me before. Slackware also has System
>>    >V init capability in version 7.0 and later, which is useful if you
>>    >install some commercial software that expects this init style, but
>>    >the main init is through four scripts, sometimes five. What I find
>>    >most annoying about debian, however, is the fact that you can't
>>    >edit /etc/mailcap manually. It just gets overwritten. You need to
>>    >go in and create a file in /usr/lib/mime/packages containing the
>>    >lines and then run update-mime. However, you can't name the file
>>    >anything, it needs to be the name of an already installed package.
>>    >This does not apply to any other distribution I know of. Of course
>>    >the problem with this is that if that package wants to place its
>>    >own version of a file there, it will and if your options are set
>>    >wrong, will do this without warning you. You may get asked, or you
>>    >may not. It depends. Jacob
>>    >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
>>    >> Hi Jacob...
>>    >> I am torn between upgrading to a current Slackware or switching
>>    >>to Debian. I  have not talked to Dell yet so I do not know what
>>    >>what distro they have  built in. I am really tired of messing with
>>    >>kludgy hardware and a solid  platform would be nice for a change.
>>    >_______________________________________________
>>    >Speakup mailing list
>>    >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>>    >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> Jacob -
>> Those are helpful observations. I have only used Slackware in the past -
>> 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and now 4.0, so I know its structure pretty well and may
just
>> stick with it. It is the awkwardness of upgrading that tempts me to switch.
>> Chuck.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: down for the count

[Charles Hallenbeck]

On 2000-09-30 speakup@braille.uwo.ca said:
   >Hi
   >This is mearly my own personal experiences, but I think you'd be
   >better off with slackware. I have gotten debian to install, but
   >it's a somewhat tricky process. I tried it recently, though, and it
   >wouldn't boot correctly on the upgraded machine. I kept getting the
   >message init: respawning too fast, disabled for five minutes. I
   >don't know what this means, but slackware does not seem to do this.
   >I've always been able to install slackware flawlessly and am
   >happily running it perfectly. The good side of debian, assuming you
   >get it to work, is the package manager. It handles packages very
   >nicely indeed, certainly better than rpm or any other packager.
   >dependencies are taken care of for you automatically, and you can
   >upgrade the whol thing through the net with two commands. However,
   >I've found slackware to be more convenient, especially it's init
   >structure. I find the system V init-style scripts used by debian
   >and red hat annoying. Slackware has about four scripts, which you
   >edit manually. Debian's number varies depending on how many
   >packages you install, and then you need to worry about symlinks. I
   >hate the runlevel directories, there's symlinks all over the place.
   >Six directories to manage instead of one. I know debian has
   >update-rc.d, but it has failed me before. Slackware also has System
   >V init capability in version 7.0 and later, which is useful if you
   >install some commercial software that expects this init style, but
   >the main init is through four scripts, sometimes five. What I find
   >most annoying about debian, however, is the fact that you can't
   >edit /etc/mailcap manually. It just gets overwritten. You need to
   >go in and create a file in /usr/lib/mime/packages containing the
   >lines and then run update-mime. However, you can't name the file
   >anything, it needs to be the name of an already installed package.
   >This does not apply to any other distribution I know of. Of course
   >the problem with this is that if that package wants to place its
   >own version of a file there, it will and if your options are set
   >wrong, will do this without warning you. You may get asked, or you
   >may not. It depends. Jacob
   >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
   >> Hi Jacob...
   >> I am torn between upgrading to a current Slackware or switching
   >>to Debian. I  have not talked to Dell yet so I do not know what
   >>what distro they have  built in. I am really tired of messing with
   >>kludgy hardware and a solid  platform would be nice for a change.
   >_______________________________________________
   >Speakup mailing list
   >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
   >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
Jacob -
Those are helpful observations. I have only used Slackware in the past -
2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and now 4.0, so I know its structure pretty well and may just
stick with it. It is the awkwardness of upgrading that tempts me to switch.
Chuck.

Re: down for the count

[philwh]

I just want to drop my 0.001 cent in here.
The company I work for just bought one of the dells with
linux preinstalled. it was redhat by the way.
the first console does come up with x-windows,
but you can change to another virtual console and get a
text login.
I had to configure it as a ppp server,
and it wasn't an easy task. redhat isn't the most friendly
linux distribution to work with.
i agree with others here, stick with slackware.
I run 4 machines with slackware at home,and hav never had
a problem. whereas at work, I must use redhat,
and seem to have problems installing any package
that doesn't happen to come in an rpm package.
and, i wasn't overly impressed with the dell machine either.
it came as a desktop machine, and didn't seem to be very upgradable.
although this may have been the fault of the i t person that ordered it.

phil

On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 02:27:12PM -0600, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> 
> On 2000-09-30 speakup@braille.uwo.ca said:
>    >Hi
>    >This is mearly my own personal experiences, but I think you'd be
>    >better off with slackware. I have gotten debian to install, but
>    >it's a somewhat tricky process. I tried it recently, though, and it
>    >wouldn't boot correctly on the upgraded machine. I kept getting the
>    >message init: respawning too fast, disabled for five minutes. I
>    >don't know what this means, but slackware does not seem to do this.
>    >I've always been able to install slackware flawlessly and am
>    >happily running it perfectly. The good side of debian, assuming you
>    >get it to work, is the package manager. It handles packages very
>    >nicely indeed, certainly better than rpm or any other packager.
>    >dependencies are taken care of for you automatically, and you can
>    >upgrade the whol thing through the net with two commands. However,
>    >I've found slackware to be more convenient, especially it's init
>    >structure. I find the system V init-style scripts used by debian
>    >and red hat annoying. Slackware has about four scripts, which you
>    >edit manually. Debian's number varies depending on how many
>    >packages you install, and then you need to worry about symlinks. I
>    >hate the runlevel directories, there's symlinks all over the place.
>    >Six directories to manage instead of one. I know debian has
>    >update-rc.d, but it has failed me before. Slackware also has System
>    >V init capability in version 7.0 and later, which is useful if you
>    >install some commercial software that expects this init style, but
>    >the main init is through four scripts, sometimes five. What I find
>    >most annoying about debian, however, is the fact that you can't
>    >edit /etc/mailcap manually. It just gets overwritten. You need to
>    >go in and create a file in /usr/lib/mime/packages containing the
>    >lines and then run update-mime. However, you can't name the file
>    >anything, it needs to be the name of an already installed package.
>    >This does not apply to any other distribution I know of. Of course
>    >the problem with this is that if that package wants to place its
>    >own version of a file there, it will and if your options are set
>    >wrong, will do this without warning you. You may get asked, or you
>    >may not. It depends. Jacob
>    >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
>    >> Hi Jacob...
>    >> I am torn between upgrading to a current Slackware or switching
>    >>to Debian. I  have not talked to Dell yet so I do not know what
>    >>what distro they have  built in. I am really tired of messing with
>    >>kludgy hardware and a solid  platform would be nice for a change.
>    >_______________________________________________
>    >Speakup mailing list
>    >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>    >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> Jacob -
> Those are helpful observations. I have only used Slackware in the past -
> 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and now 4.0, so I know its structure pretty well and may just
> stick with it. It is the awkwardness of upgrading that tempts me to switch.
> Chuck.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: down for the count

[Jacob Schmude]

Hi
	Slackware isn't as hard to upgrade now. From 4.0 onward, there's
an upgradepkg utility that will upgrade a package. From 4.0 to 7.0 would
be a bit tricky, simply because of the switch to libc6. The simple way to
do it would be to install the glibc libraries first, then upgrade the
distro. You'd just go into a directory and do upgradepkg *.tgz and it will
upgrade packages and not install any new packages.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> Jacob -
> Those are helpful observations. I have only used Slackware in the past -
> 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and now 4.0, so I know its structure pretty well and may just
> stick with it. It is the awkwardness of upgrading that tempts me to switch.
> Chuck.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: down for the count

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Hi Jacob...

I am torn between upgrading to a current Slackware or switching to Debian. I
have not talked to Dell yet so I do not know what what distro they have
built in. I am really tired of messing with kludgy hardware and a solid
platform would be nice for a change.

Re: down for the count

[Charles Hallenbeck]

No, I am not sure I want to try to fit zipspeak on this 486SX with only 4 MB
ram and 128 MB hard disk. I need something better than that! DOS/Nettamer
will have to do until the real fix comes! Tha;nks for the suggestion though.

Re: down for the count

[Jacob Schmude]

Hi
	This is mearly my own personal experiences, but I think you'd be
better off with slackware. I have gotten debian to install, but it's a
somewhat tricky process. I tried it recently, though, and it wouldn't boot
correctly on the upgraded machine. I kept getting the message
init: respawning too fast, disabled for five minutes. I don't know what
this means, but slackware does not seem to do this. I've always been able
to install slackware flawlessly and am happily running it perfectly.
	The good side of debian, assuming you get it to work, is the
package manager. It handles packages very nicely indeed, certainly better
than rpm or any other packager. dependencies are taken care of for you
automatically, and you can upgrade the whol thing through the net with two
commands. However, I've found slackware to be more convenient, especially
it's init structure. I find the system V init-style scripts used by debian
and red hat annoying. Slackware has about four scripts, which you edit
manually. Debian's number varies depending on how many packages you
install, and then you need to worry about symlinks. I hate the runlevel
directories, there's symlinks all over the place. Six directories to
manage instead of one. I know debian has update-rc.d, but it has failed me
before. Slackware also has System V init capability in version 7.0 and
later, which is useful if you install some commercial software that
expects this init style, but the main init is through four scripts,
sometimes five.
	What I find most annoying about debian, however, is the fact that
you can't edit /etc/mailcap manually. It just gets overwritten. You need
to go in and create a file in /usr/lib/mime/packages containing the lines
and then run update-mime. However, you can't name the file anything, it
needs to be the name of an already installed package. This does not apply
to any other distribution I know of. Of course the problem with this is
that if that package wants to place its own version of a file there, it
will and if your options are set wrong, will do this without warning
you. You may get asked, or you may not. It depends.

Jacob


On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> 
> Hi Jacob...
> 
> I am torn between upgrading to a current Slackware or switching to Debian. I
> have not talked to Dell yet so I do not know what what distro they have
> built in. I am really tired of messing with kludgy hardware and a solid
> platform would be nice for a change.

Re: down for the count

[Kerry Hoath]

I had a machine like this the other day, crashed solid.
Tried to boot it up failed fsck. Messages on the screen said
"CRC error" or "Invalid compressed format" and similar nonsense, the system
board had just died. It appears that once these 586 style systems get to
a certain age or the boards at anyrate they can go flakey or fail for no reason.

I have lost 4 ot 5 systems this way, I have a pile of chips and no boards to
run t hem on all the boards died. Ram out of the machines is still fine.

I would assume that Chuck's machine has just died of old age.
time to get a shiny new celeron if you are on a budget or a Pentium III if
not or an Athlon if you want real power.

Regards, Kerry.
On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 10:33:27AM -0400, Jacob Schmude wrote:
> Hi
> 	Personally, I'd go for a new system, and a linux upgrade to
> match. Libc5 is becoming outdated fast, and some programs won't even
> compile on it.
> 	You can go for the new dell systems with linux preinstalled, don't
> know what distro they use or how it's configured, though. I bet they
> configure it to come up in X windows, and that won't work for you. They
> probably won't use slackware, so if you want to stick with that distro,
> just get a new system with windlows preloaded, partition the disk, and put
> slakware back on. That would probably be easier than messing around with
> some vendor's configurations anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I will keep an eye (ear?) on list mail but will not otherwise be very active
> > until I get the hardware people to look at this thing and decide whether to
> > bandaid it or plunk down for a shiny new system. I am inclined 5toward the
> > latter, and in fact am seriously thinking about one of those Dell jobs with
> > Linux pre-installed. Any reactions pro or con would be not only appreciated
> > but quite timely right now.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
--
Kerry Hoath: kerry@gotss.eu.org
Alternates: kerry@emusys.com.au kerry@gotss.spice.net.au or khoath@lis.net.au
ICQ UIN: 62823451

down for the count

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Just minutes after posting the afix wave editor package and sending a note
to the list about it, my modest system did a feeble imitation of HAL in 2001
and took a nose dive. I was unable to do the three finger salute to shut
down and had to do it the wrong way. After several attempts to restart the
system failed in a similar fashion half way through the FSCK procedure, I
now have a very dead system with the likelihood of serious file system
corruption if I ever get it up again (the computer, that is!) It looks to me
like a power supply failure for several reasons other than the above.

I am now reduced to nettamer in DOS on a 486SX - a kind of Timex lookalike!
I will keep an eye (ear?) on list mail but will not otherwise be very active
until I get the hardware people to look at this thing and decide whether to
bandaid it or plunk down for a shiny new system. I am inclined 5toward the
latter, and in fact am seriously thinking about one of those Dell jobs with
Linux pre-installed. Any reactions pro or con would be not only appreciated
but quite timely right now.

Chuck.

Re: down for the count

[Cheryl Homiak]

Hey, there's always zipspeak if you're going to be down for a while!

Cheryl

Re: down for the count

[Jacob Schmude]

Hi
	Personally, I'd go for a new system, and a linux upgrade to
match. Libc5 is becoming outdated fast, and some programs won't even
compile on it.
	You can go for the new dell systems with linux preinstalled, don't
know what distro they use or how it's configured, though. I bet they
configure it to come up in X windows, and that won't work for you. They
probably won't use slackware, so if you want to stick with that distro,
just get a new system with windlows preloaded, partition the disk, and put
slakware back on. That would probably be easier than messing around with
some vendor's configurations anyway.



On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> 
> I will keep an eye (ear?) on list mail but will not otherwise be very active
> until I get the hardware people to look at this thing and decide whether to
> bandaid it or plunk down for a shiny new system. I am inclined 5toward the
> latter, and in fact am seriously thinking about one of those Dell jobs with
> Linux pre-installed. Any reactions pro or con would be not only appreciated
> but quite timely right now.