Free Book About PHP Available

Free Book About PHP Available

[Janina Sajka]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>

Good Afternoon from Apress!

We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.

Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.

Kind Regards,
Hollie

Hollie Fischer
Apress Public Relations Assistant
901 Grayson Street Suite 204
Berkeley CA 94710
phone 510.549.5938
fax 510.549.5939
www.apress.com
Visit our online catalog today!

_______________________________________________
dclug mailing list
dclug@tux.org
http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Terry Cudney]

Hi Janina,

	could you check this book? On going to their website (provided url) I couldn't find any downloadable version of the book, just a typical description of it and method to purchase.

Thanks,
	--terry


Name:	Terry D. Cudney
Phone:	(905)735-6127
E-mail:	terry@CottageInWasaga.com -or- tcudney@sympatico.ca
WWW:	www.CottageInWasaga.com

Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like...
having a peeing sectionin a swimming pool.

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Darcy Burnard]

Hi Terry.  If you look right below the author's name on that page, you'll
find a link to download the entire book.  Farther down the page, it looks
like you can download individual chapters.  However, all of these files
are pdf documents.


On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Terry Cudney wrote:

> Hi Janina,
> 
> 	could you check this book? On going to their website (provided url) I couldn't find any downloadable version of the book, just a typical description of it and method to purchase.
> 
> Thanks,
> 	--terry
> 
> 
> Name:	Terry D. Cudney
> Phone:	(905)735-6127
> E-mail:	terry@CottageInWasaga.com -or- tcudney@sympatico.ca
> WWW:	www.CottageInWasaga.com
> 
> Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like...
> having a peeing sectionin a swimming pool.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Victor Tsaran]

PHP manual is good as well. Quite a good book.
Vic

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: Free Book About PHP Available


> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
>
> Good Afternoon from Apress!
>
> We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to
PHP
> 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
>
> Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or
place
> of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free
to
> pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Hollie
>
> Hollie Fischer
> Apress Public Relations Assistant
> 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> Berkeley CA 94710
> phone 510.549.5938
> fax 510.549.5939
> www.apress.com
> Visit our online catalog today!
>
> _______________________________________________
> dclug mailing list
> dclug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Charles Hallenbeck]

I cannot convert these files. I patched my ghostscript 5.50 as
recommended to avoid the encryption problem, but still get errors
referring to "typecheck" when attempting the conversion.

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
>
> Good Afternoon from Apress!
>
> We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
>
> Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Hollie
>
> Hollie Fischer
> Apress Public Relations Assistant
> 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> Berkeley CA 94710
> phone 510.549.5938
> fax 510.549.5939
> www.apress.com
> Visit our online catalog today!
>
> _______________________________________________
> dclug mailing list
> dclug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (91% of Full)

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Janina Sajka]

Yes, it's regretable these are PDF. I have no idea whether the publisher 
has the master files in some format that could be easily turned into HTML, 

But if they're willing to release PDF, they'll probably release HTML if
they can do so with little difficulty.

 On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Darcy Burnard wrote:

> Hi Terry.  If you look right below the author's name on that page, you'll
> find a link to download the entire book.  Farther down the page, it looks
> like you can download individual chapters.  However, all of these files
> are pdf documents.
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Terry Cudney wrote:
> 
> > Hi Janina,
> > 
> > 	could you check this book? On going to their website (provided url) I couldn't find any downloadable version of the book, just a typical description of it and method to purchase.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 	--terry
> > 
> > 
> > Name:	Terry D. Cudney
> > Phone:	(905)735-6127
> > E-mail:	terry@CottageInWasaga.com -or- tcudney@sympatico.ca
> > WWW:	www.CottageInWasaga.com
> > 
> > Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like...
> > having a peeing sectionin a swimming pool.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Victor Tsaran]

I got the book and it reads very nice within Windows, unfortunately. How
about using PDF2text or PDF2HTML service?
Victor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: Free Book About PHP Available


> Yes, it's regretable these are PDF. I have no idea whether the publisher
> has the master files in some format that could be easily turned into HTML,
>
> But if they're willing to release PDF, they'll probably release HTML if
> they can do so with little difficulty.
>
>  On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Darcy Burnard wrote:
>
> > Hi Terry.  If you look right below the author's name on that page,
you'll
> > find a link to download the entire book.  Farther down the page, it
looks
> > like you can download individual chapters.  However, all of these files
> > are pdf documents.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Terry Cudney wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Janina,
> > >
> > > could you check this book? On going to their website (provided url) I
couldn't find any downloadable version of the book, just a typical
description of it and method to purchase.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > --terry
> > >
> > >
> > > Name: Terry D. Cudney
> > > Phone: (905)735-6127
> > > E-mail: terry@CottageInWasaga.com -or- tcudney@sympatico.ca
> > > WWW: www.CottageInWasaga.com
> > >
> > > Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like...
> > > having a peeing sectionin a swimming pool.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Brian Borowski]

There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.

*  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
a couple of people on here...

* and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
apt-get install xpdf

* then:
xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
for each chapter.

* You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
then:

you could strip these with a one-line perl script like

perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file

or something like that...

Brian Borowski


On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
>
> Good Afternoon from Apress!
>
> We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
>
> Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Hollie
>
> Hollie Fischer
> Apress Public Relations Assistant
> 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> Berkeley CA 94710
> phone 510.549.5938
> fax 510.549.5939
> www.apress.com
> Visit our online catalog today!
>
> _______________________________________________
> dclug mailing list
> dclug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Brian -
Thanks for that tip! On my Slackware system the xpdf software is
installed, but the command to do the conversion seems to be
"pdftotext". It worked just fine.

Chuck


On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:

> There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
>
> *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> a couple of people on here...
>
> * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> apt-get install xpdf
>
> * then:
> xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> for each chapter.
>
> * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> then:
>
> you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
>
> perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
>
> or something like that...
>
> Brian Borowski
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> >
> > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> >
> > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> >
> > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Hollie
> >
> > Hollie Fischer
> > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > Berkeley CA 94710
> > phone 510.549.5938
> > fax 510.549.5939
> > www.apress.com
> > Visit our online catalog today!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dclug mailing list
> > dclug@tux.org
> > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (86% of Full)

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Victor Tsaran]

Brian,
Why do you provoke the Linux distro war, grin?!
Why then your "supurb" distro is so difficult and combersome to install?
Vic

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Brian Borowski]

Chuck:
Yes, you're right, pdftotext.  Thanks for the correction.

Brian Borowski


On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> Brian -
> Thanks for that tip! On my Slackware system the xpdf software is
> installed, but the command to do the conversion seems to be
> "pdftotext". It worked just fine.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
>
> > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> >
> > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > a couple of people on here...
> >
> > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > apt-get install xpdf
> >
> > * then:
> > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > for each chapter.
> >
> > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > then:
> >
> > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> >
> > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> >
> > or something like that...
> >
> > Brian Borowski
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > >
> > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > >
> > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > >
> > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Hollie
> > >
> > > Hollie Fischer
> > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > www.apress.com
> > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dclug mailing list
> > > dclug@tux.org
> > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (86% of Full)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Brian Borowski]

I just had to get one in there.  Actually, I've never had any problem
installing it on a whole number of machines, alphas and intel-similar
hardware.  Also, the package manager is wonderful (dpkg) and apt-get is
even more excellent.  I've also used Redhat as well,; it really does depend
(I guess) what school you come from...

Brian



On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Victor Tsaran wrote:

> Brian,
> Why do you provoke the Linux distro war, grin?!
> Why then your "supurb" distro is so difficult and combersome to install?
> Vic
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Gregory Nowak]

Why not just use pdftotext which is an interface to xpdf I believe?
Greg


On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 08:31:50AM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> 
> *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> a couple of people on here...
> 
> * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> apt-get install xpdf
> 
> * then:
> xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> for each chapter.
> 
> * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> then:
> 
> you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> 
> perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> 
> or something like that...
> 
> Brian Borowski
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> >
> > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> >
> > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> >
> > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Hollie
> >
> > Hollie Fischer
> > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > Berkeley CA 94710
> > phone 510.549.5938
> > fax 510.549.5939
> > www.apress.com
> > Visit our online catalog today!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dclug mailing list
> > dclug@tux.org
> > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Janina Sajka]

Brian:

The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the 
following:


   "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF 
document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
   security features let an author disallow printing, copying 
text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.

   "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
     * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying 
text/graphics
     * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file 
which disallows printing
     * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying 
text/graphics
     * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows 
copying text/graphics

   "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF 
file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
   help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating 
to the use of his/her work should be honored."

Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a 
soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are 
blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some 
of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe 
Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though 
I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.

Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these 
restrictions by default?



On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:

> There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> 
> *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> a couple of people on here...
> 
> * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> apt-get install xpdf
> 
> * then:
> xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> for each chapter.
> 
> * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> then:
> 
> you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> 
> perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> 
> or something like that...
> 
> Brian Borowski
> 
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> >
> > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> >
> > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> >
> > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Hollie
> >
> > Hollie Fischer
> > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > Berkeley CA 94710
> > phone 510.549.5938
> > fax 510.549.5939
> > www.apress.com
> > Visit our online catalog today!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dclug mailing list
> > dclug@tux.org
> > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Nevertheless pdftotext just goes right ahead and converts the PHP
Intro book without as much as a grumble or a qualm.

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Brian:
>
> The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> following:
>
>
>    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
>    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
>
>    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
>      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> text/graphics
>      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> which disallows printing
>      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> text/graphics
>      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> copying text/graphics
>
>    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
>    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> to the use of his/her work should be honored."
>
> Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
>
> Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> restrictions by default?
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
>
> > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> >
> > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > a couple of people on here...
> >
> > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > apt-get install xpdf
> >
> > * then:
> > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > for each chapter.
> >
> > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > then:
> >
> > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> >
> > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> >
> > or something like that...
> >
> > Brian Borowski
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > >
> > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > >
> > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > >
> > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Hollie
> > >
> > > Hollie Fischer
> > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > www.apress.com
> > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dclug mailing list
> > > dclug@tux.org
> > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (84% of Full)

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Janina Sajka]

Perhaps it isn't restricted. I haven't checked that out.

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> 
> Nevertheless pdftotext just goes right ahead and converts the PHP
> Intro book without as much as a grumble or a qualm.
> 
> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Brian:
> >
> > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > following:
> >
> >
> >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> >
> >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > text/graphics
> >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > which disallows printing
> >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > text/graphics
> >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > copying text/graphics
> >
> >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> >
> > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> >
> > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > restrictions by default?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> >
> > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > >
> > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > a couple of people on here...
> > >
> > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > apt-get install xpdf
> > >
> > > * then:
> > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > for each chapter.
> > >
> > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > then:
> > >
> > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > >
> > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > >
> > > or something like that...
> > >
> > > Brian Borowski
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > >
> > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > >
> > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > >
> > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > >
> > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > Hollie
> > > >
> > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > www.apress.com
> > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (84% of Full)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Brian Borowski]

There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.

Brian


On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Brian:
>
> The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> following:
>
>
>    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
>    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
>
>    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
>      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> text/graphics
>      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> which disallows printing
>      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> text/graphics
>      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> copying text/graphics
>
>    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
>    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> to the use of his/her work should be honored."
>
> Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
>
> Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> restrictions by default?
>
>
> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
>
> > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> >
> > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > a couple of people on here...
> >
> > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > apt-get install xpdf
> >
> > * then:
> > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > for each chapter.
> >
> > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > then:
> >
> > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> >
> > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> >
> > or something like that...
> >
> > Brian Borowski
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > >
> > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > >
> > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > >
> > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Hollie
> > >
> > > Hollie Fischer
> > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > www.apress.com
> > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > dclug mailing list
> > > dclug@tux.org
> > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Janina Sajka]

Brian:

There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe 
Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/

And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a 
blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:

> 
> There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Brian:
> >
> > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > following:
> >
> >
> >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> >
> >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > text/graphics
> >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > which disallows printing
> >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > text/graphics
> >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > copying text/graphics
> >
> >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> >
> > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> >
> > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > restrictions by default?
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> >
> > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > >
> > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > a couple of people on here...
> > >
> > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > apt-get install xpdf
> > >
> > > * then:
> > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > for each chapter.
> > >
> > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > then:
> > >
> > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > >
> > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > >
> > > or something like that...
> > >
> > > Brian Borowski
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > >
> > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > >
> > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > >
> > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > >
> > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > Hollie
> > > >
> > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > www.apress.com
> > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Gregory Nowak]

Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
Greg


On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Brian:
> 
> There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe 
> Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> 
> And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a 
> blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> 
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> 
> > 
> > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> > 
> > Brian
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > 
> > > Brian:
> > >
> > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > following:
> > >
> > >
> > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > >
> > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > text/graphics
> > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > > which disallows printing
> > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > text/graphics
> > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > > copying text/graphics
> > >
> > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > >
> > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > > restrictions by default?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > >
> > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > > >
> > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > >
> > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > >
> > > > * then:
> > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > for each chapter.
> > > >
> > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > > then:
> > > >
> > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > >
> > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > >
> > > > or something like that...
> > > >
> > > > Brian Borowski
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > >
> > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > >
> > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > Hollie
> > > > >
> > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Janina Sajka]

Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm not 
always aware of who's where.

My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Brian:
> > 
> > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe 
> > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > 
> > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a 
> > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > 
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> > > 
> > > Brian
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Brian:
> > > >
> > > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > following:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > >
> > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > text/graphics
> > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > which disallows printing
> > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > text/graphics
> > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > > > copying text/graphics
> > > >
> > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > >
> > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > > > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > >
> > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > > > restrictions by default?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > > > >
> > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > >
> > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > >
> > > > > * then:
> > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > >
> > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > > > then:
> > > > >
> > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > >
> > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > >
> > > > > or something like that...
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Canada? Canada? You mean Canada is not part of the USA?

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm not
> always aware of who's where.
>
> My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
>
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Brian:
> > >
> > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe
> > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > >
> > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a
> > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Brian:
> > > > >
> > > > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > > following:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > >
> > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > text/graphics
> > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > text/graphics
> > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > >
> > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > > > > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > > > > then:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > >
> > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > >
> > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Gregory Nowak]

No, it's not. If someone thinks it is, then I would be really interested in hearing why you think so.
Hmmmm, has something happened that I missed (grin)?
Greg


On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 01:09:43PM -0500, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> Canada? Canada? You mean Canada is not part of the USA?
> 
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm not
> > always aware of who's where.
> >
> > My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > Brian:
> > > >
> > > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe
> > > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > > >
> > > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a
> > > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> > > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> > > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> > > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> > > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> > > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > > > following:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> > > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > > > > > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > > > > > then:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Janina Sajka]

I know, Chuck. It can be so hard to believe that when they've given us 
such wonderful things as standard time and speakup.


On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> Canada? Canada? You mean Canada is not part of the USA?
> 
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm not
> > always aware of who's where.
> >
> > My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > Brian:
> > > >
> > > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe
> > > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > > >
> > > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a
> > > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> > > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> > > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> > > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> > > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> > > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > > > following:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> > > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > > > > > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > > > > > then:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Charles Hallenbeck]

They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I know, Chuck. It can be so hard to believe that when they've given us
> such wonderful things as standard time and speakup.
>
>
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
>
> > Canada? Canada? You mean Canada is not part of the USA?
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >
> > > Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm not
> > > always aware of who's where.
> > >
> > > My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > Brian:
> > > > >
> > > > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe
> > > > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > > > >
> > > > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a
> > > > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> > > > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> > > > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> > > > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> > > > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> > > > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > > > > following:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > > > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> > > > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > > > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > > > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > > > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > > > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > > > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > > > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > > > > > > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > > > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > > > > > > then:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (74% of Full)

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Victor Tsaran]

Woops, I am not Canadian, but everybody knows that Hockey is a Canadian
sport and not American in any way.
Vic

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <hallenbeck@valstar.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Free Book About PHP Available


> They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
> American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.
>
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
> > I know, Chuck. It can be so hard to believe that when they've given us
> > such wonderful things as standard time and speakup.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> >
> > > Canada? Canada? You mean Canada is not part of the USA?
> > >
> > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm
not
> > > > always aware of who's where.
> > > >
> > > > My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See
the Adobe
> > > > > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call
me. As a
> > > > > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two
main reasons.
> > > > > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext
can't figure
> > > > > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem
is, that if
> > > > > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to
display at all
> > > > > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out
how to get
> > > > > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our
case, anyway.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brian
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The XPDF home page at
http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > > > > > following:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of
a PDF
> > > > > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing,
copying
> > > > > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings.
Specifically:
> > > > > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which
disallows copying
> > > > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to
PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows
copying
> > > > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file
which disallows
> > > > > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to
crack a PDF
> > > > > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's
requests relating
> > > > > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these
restrictions and a
> > > > > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that
people who are
> > > > > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such
measures. Some
> > > > > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A
Gallery of Adobe
> > > > > > > > Remedies," which is at
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits
these
> > > > > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an
easy recipe.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of
linux known as
> > > > > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about
debian recently by
> > > > > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite
readable; though, they
> > > > > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the
lines, but
> > > > > > > > > then:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's
Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book
for FREE, please
> > > > > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle
of friends, or place
> > > > > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book
useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress
books.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> > > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> The Moon is Waning Gibbous (74% of Full)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Greg. Well if Canada isn't part of the U.S., then why does Canada use the same dialing format as in the U.S.? Well I guess you guys have some U.S. atributes lol! Just thought I'd point that one out.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gregory Nowak <gnowak1@uic.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Free Book About PHP Available


> No, it's not. If someone thinks it is, then I would be really interested in hearing why you think so.
> Hmmmm, has something happened that I missed (grin)?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 01:09:43PM -0500, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > Canada? Canada? You mean Canada is not part of the USA?
> > 
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > 
> > > Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm not
> > > always aware of who's where.
> > >
> > > My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > Brian:
> > > > >
> > > > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe
> > > > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > > > >
> > > > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a
> > > > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> > > > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> > > > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> > > > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> > > > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> > > > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > > > > following:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > > > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> > > > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > > > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > > > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > > > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > > > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > > > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > > > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > > > > > > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > > > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > > > > > > then:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > 
> > Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_________________________________________________________
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Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Janina Sajka]

Oh, I don't know about dat, Victor. Dere was sure a lot a guys playing 
hockey back in Minnesota, where I'm from. Dey play it all year long dere.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Victor Tsaran wrote:

> Woops, I am not Canadian, but everybody knows that Hockey is a Canadian
> sport and not American in any way.
> Vic
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <hallenbeck@valstar.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Free Book About PHP Available
> 
> 
> > They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
> > American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> >
> > > I know, Chuck. It can be so hard to believe that when they've given us
> > > such wonderful things as standard time and speakup.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > >
> > > > Canada? Canada? You mean Canada is not part of the USA?
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm
> not
> > > > > always aware of who's where.
> > > > >
> > > > > My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > > > > > Greg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See
> the Adobe
> > > > > > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call
> me. As a
> > > > > > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two
> main reasons.
> > > > > > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext
> can't figure
> > > > > > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem
> is, that if
> > > > > > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to
> display at all
> > > > > > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out
> how to get
> > > > > > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our
> case, anyway.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Brian
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The XPDF home page at
> http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > > > > > > following:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of
> a PDF
> > > > > > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > > > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing,
> copying
> > > > > > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings.
> Specifically:
> > > > > > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which
> disallows copying
> > > > > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to
> PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > > > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > > > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows
> copying
> > > > > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file
> which disallows
> > > > > > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to
> crack a PDF
> > > > > > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > > > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's
> requests relating
> > > > > > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these
> restrictions and a
> > > > > > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that
> people who are
> > > > > > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such
> measures. Some
> > > > > > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A
> Gallery of Adobe
> > > > > > > > > Remedies," which is at
> http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits
> these
> > > > > > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an
> easy recipe.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of
> linux known as
> > > > > > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about
> debian recently by
> > > > > > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite
> readable; though, they
> > > > > > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the
> lines, but
> > > > > > > > > > then:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's
> Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book
> for FREE, please
> > > > > > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle
> of friends, or place
> > > > > > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book
> useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress
> books.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> > > > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (75% of Full)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
> > The Moon is Waning Gibbous (74% of Full)
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

One more thing.

[Anna Schneider]

Oh I forgot, I"m so sorry.

My understanding is that Xwindows is not currently voice ouput accessible.  
Is this true?  If so, do I need to worry about it being installed at this 
time?

Anna

Re: One more thing.

[Thomas Ward]

Hi, Anna. It is true that X-windows is not currently accessible. However, a
couple of projects are out there working on the problem as we speak.
Yes, you will  want to have them install X, and configure it,  but have them
change the run level from 5 to 3.
Many apps require X libs etc, and it is nice to have them on hand when you
need them.
You may need some friend, family member, etc to look on your machine, and
they will want to work in X-Windows as apose to the console.

----- Original Message -----
From: Anna Schneider <annas@drizzle.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:58 AM
Subject: One more thing.


>
> Oh I forgot, I"m so sorry.
>
> My understanding is that Xwindows is not currently voice ouput accessible.
> Is this true?  If so, do I need to worry about it being installed at this
> time?
>
> Anna
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: One more thing.

[Janina Sajka]

Yes, you may as well have them do it and make sure it's working. Tell them 
we're expecting accessibility in GNOME 2.0 some time later this year.

I think that's right, I should check whether GAP is only 2.0, or whether 
it will also support GNOME 1.4. I will check on this.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Anna Schneider wrote:

> 
> Oh I forgot, I"m so sorry.
> 
> My understanding is that Xwindows is not currently voice ouput accessible.  
> Is this true?  If so, do I need to worry about it being installed at this 
> time?
> 
> Anna
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: One more thing.

[Thomas Ward]

It will be only for Gnome 2.0. 1.4 doesn't have all the access widgits.

----- Original Message -----
From: Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: One more thing.


> Yes, you may as well have them do it and make sure it's working. Tell them
> we're expecting accessibility in GNOME 2.0 some time later this year.
>
> I think that's right, I should check whether GAP is only 2.0, or whether
> it will also support GNOME 1.4. I will check on this.
>
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Anna Schneider wrote:
>
> >
> > Oh I forgot, I"m so sorry.
> >
> > My understanding is that Xwindows is not currently voice ouput
accessible.
> > Is this true?  If so, do I need to worry about it being installed at
this
> > time?
> >
> > Anna
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Monty Lilburn]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
>They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
>American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.

I speak English  (Canada is a Bilingual country with French and English as
the two official languages)  I have never spoken a word of "American" and
do not anticipate ever doing so!  As for hockey, , refer to the final
score of last week's Olympic gold metal match between Canada and the
United States.

Monty

  --------------------------------------------------------------

                         SUBMERGED IN THE 6o4 AREA CODE

A proud user of the LINUX Operating System!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Hi Monty -

There is a real problem with attempting humor in an email
environment. The problem is that one is sometimes taken
seriously. I should apologize to you and to the list for
frivolous comments intended to pull some Canadian legs. I promise
to always be serious in future posts.
Chuck


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Monty Lilburn wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> >They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
> >American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.
>
> I speak English  (Canada is a Bilingual country with French and English as
> the two official languages)  I have never spoken a word of "American" and
> do not anticipate ever doing so!  As for hockey, , refer to the final
> score of last week's Olympic gold metal match between Canada and the
> United States.
>
> Monty
>
>   --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                          SUBMERGED IN THE 6o4 AREA CODE
>
> A proud user of the LINUX Operating System!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
The Moon is Waning Gibbous (64% of Full)

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Monty Lilburn]

Hi Chuck,

Hey no problem, I didn't mean for my last message to come across as really
abrasive either!  I suppose that's the problem with writing! < insert
smiley face here >

MOnty


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

>Hi Monty -
>
>There is a real problem with attempting humor in an email
>environment. The problem is that one is sometimes taken
>seriously. I should apologize to you and to the list for
>frivolous comments intended to pull some Canadian legs. I promise
>to always be serious in future posts.
>Chuck
>
>
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Monty Lilburn wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
>> >They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
>> >American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.
>>
>> I speak English  (Canada is a Bilingual country with French and English as
>> the two official languages)  I have never spoken a word of "American" and
>> do not anticipate ever doing so!  As for hockey, , refer to the final
>> score of last week's Olympic gold metal match between Canada and the
>> United States.
>>
>> Monty
>>
>>   --------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                          SUBMERGED IN THE 6o4 AREA CODE
>>
>> A proud user of the LINUX Operating System!
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>
>Visit me at http://www.valstar.net/~hallenbeck
>The Moon is Waning Gibbous (64% of Full)
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 

  --------------------------------------------------------------

                         SUBMERGED IN THE 6o4 AREA CODE

A proud user of the LINUX Operating System!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Charles Hallenbeck said the following on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 01:13:38PM -0500:
I  promise to always be serious in future posts.
> Chuck
> 

Nah.  A little humor never hurts anyone too much and if they are
offended they get over it.  I too sometimes cannot tell if someone is
joking via email but knowing that allows for some leanency.

Best regards.

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Brian Borowski]

Janina:
We're also permitted to have a copy of stuff for personal use, as BP's in
canada.

Brian



On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm not
> always aware of who's where.
>
> My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
>
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>
> > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Brian:
> > >
> > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the Adobe
> > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > >
> > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As a
> > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main reasons.
> > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't figure
> > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is, that if
> > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display at all
> > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to get
> > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case, anyway.
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Brian:
> > > > >
> > > > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html says the
> > > > > following:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a PDF
> > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > >
> > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings. Specifically:
> > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > text/graphics
> > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a PDF file
> > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows copying
> > > > > text/graphics
> > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which disallows
> > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > >
> > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to crack a PDF
> > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests relating
> > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these restrictions and a
> > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people who are
> > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such measures. Some
> > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery of Adobe
> > > > > Remedies," which is at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits these
> > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy recipe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of linux known as
> > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about debian recently by
> > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable; though, they
> > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines, but
> > > > > > then:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > >
> > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > >
> > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > >
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Brian Borowski]

I wasn't going to, but...
I don't know what all the fuss is about, Canada will probably be another
state soon, anyway, which suits me just fine...

Brian



On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Monty Lilburn wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> >They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
> >American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.
>
> I speak English  (Canada is a Bilingual country with French and English as
> the two official languages)  I have never spoken a word of "American" and
> do not anticipate ever doing so!  As for hockey, , refer to the final
> score of last week's Olympic gold metal match between Canada and the
> United States.
>
> Monty
>
>   --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                          SUBMERGED IN THE 6o4 AREA CODE
>
> A proud user of the LINUX Operating System!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Kirk Reiser]

Charles Hallenbeck <hallenbeck@valstar.net> writes:

> There is a real problem with attempting humor in an email
> environment. The problem is that one is sometimes taken
> seriously. I should apologize to you and to the list for
> frivolous comments intended to pull some Canadian legs. I promise
> to always be serious in future posts.

You better be or the next time we'll refuse to annex New York.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Gregory Nowak]

Didn't even know a language like American existed. I always thought there was only English with some regional variations (grin).
Greg


On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 10:00:04AM -0800, Monty Lilburn wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> >They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
> >American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.
> 
> I speak English  (Canada is a Bilingual country with French and English as
> the two official languages)  I have never spoken a word of "American" and
> do not anticipate ever doing so!  As for hockey, , refer to the final
> score of last week's Olympic gold metal match between Canada and the
> United States.
> 
> Monty
> 
>   --------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>                          SUBMERGED IN THE 6o4 AREA CODE
> 
> A proud user of the LINUX Operating System!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Canada, was: Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Gregory Nowak]

Hey folks, it's time the subject line got changed, since this thread is wondering way off the original course. When did this rummor develop, or were you just stating your opinion?
Greg


On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 02:11:54PM -0500, Brian Borowski wrote:
> 
> I wasn't going to, but...
> I don't know what all the fuss is about, Canada will probably be another
> state soon, anyway, which suits me just fine...
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Monty Lilburn wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> > >They even talk American for the most part, and seem to enjoy
> > >American sports like hockey and baseball. Could have fooled me.
> >
> > I speak English  (Canada is a Bilingual country with French and English as
> > the two official languages)  I have never spoken a word of "American" and
> > do not anticipate ever doing so!  As for hockey, , refer to the final
> > score of last week's Olympic gold metal match between Canada and the
> > United States.
> >
> > Monty
> >
> >   --------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >                          SUBMERGED IN THE 6o4 AREA CODE
> >
> > A proud user of the LINUX Operating System!
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Rich Caloggero]

A perl script which decrypts PDFs can be found at the PDF Remedies page at
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
It will fail if the data portion of the encrypted file contains the exact
bytes "endstream". The comments also say that it doesn't decrypt strings.
I'm not sure exactly what this means. I just decrypted the PHP book with it
though, and it reads fine with acrobat reader 5 and Jaws. If anyone wants me
(or feels its legal) to post this script on the list, I will do so. Please
advise me on this!! <smile>




----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Borowski" <brianb@braille.uwo.ca>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Free Book About PHP Available


> Janina:
> We're also permitted to have a copy of stuff for personal use, as BP's in
> canada.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
> > Ooopps. Don't know about Canadian law. Sorry. Guess on the net I'm not
> > always aware of who's where.
> >
> > My mistake. Thanks,Greg, for pointing it out.
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Ok, but he's in Canada, isn't he? Does that still apply to him?
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 12:46:00PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > Brian:
> > > >
> > > > There are patches to get around the printing restriction. See the
Adobe
> > > > Remedies page at http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/
> > > >
> > > > And, if the copyright police come knocking on your door, call me. As
a
> > > > blind person in the U.S., you have a right to these files.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There are certainly pdf files that I cannot convert, for two main
reasons.
> > > > > Either, there are some unknown character sets that pdftotext can't
figure
> > > > > out how to deal with, or printing is not allowed.  The problem is,
that if
> > > > > printing isn't allowed, then we can't even convert them to display
at all
> > > > > and therefore, we can't read them.  I will try and find out how to
get
> > > > > around this restriction, because it does not apply in our case,
anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Brian:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The XPDF home page at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/cracking.html
says the
> > > > > > following:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "If any security features are turned on by the creator of a
PDF
> > > > > > document, the PDF file will be encrypted. These
> > > > > >    security features let an author disallow printing, copying
> > > > > > text/graphics, editing, and/or adding annotations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "The Xpdf package honors these permission settings.
Specifically:
> > > > > >      * xpdf will not copy/paste from a PDF file which disallows
copying
> > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > >      * xpdf and pdftops will not print (convert to PostScript) a
PDF file
> > > > > > which disallows printing
> > > > > >      * pdftotext will not convert a PDF file which disallows
copying
> > > > > > text/graphics
> > > > > >      * pdfimages will not extract images from a PDF file which
disallows
> > > > > > copying text/graphics
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    "I occasionally get email asking if I can explain how to
crack a PDF
> > > > > > file, or if I can help decrypt a PDF file. I won't
> > > > > >    help these people because I believe that an author's requests
relating
> > > > > > to the use of his/her work should be honored."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, there are patches out there to inhibit these
restrictions and a
> > > > > > soon to be published paper from AFB will demonstrate that people
who are
> > > > > > blind have the legal right in the U.S. to circumvent such
measures. Some
> > > > > > of these patches are referenced at the page entitled "A Gallery
of Adobe
> > > > > > Remedies," which is at
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Adobe/Gallery/, though
> > > > > > I have not succeeded in getting the ones I've tried to work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying that the Debian distribution of XPDF inhibits
these
> > > > > > restrictions by default?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Brian Borowski wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are no problems in converting this book.  Here's an easy
recipe.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *  Assume you are running that most superb distribution of
linux known as
> > > > > > > debian; there's been a couple of nasty things said about
debian recently by
> > > > > > > a couple of people on here...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * and you don't have xpdf installed, then do:
> > > > > > > apt-get install xpdf
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * then:
> > > > > > > xpdf 1893115852_xx.pdf
> > > > > > > for each chapter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * You will end up with  .txt files which are quite readable;
though, they
> > > > > > > have a little bit of leading space at the start of the lines,
but
> > > > > > > then:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > you could strip these with a one-line perl script like
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > perl -pe 's/^\s+//;' input-file >output-file
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > or something like that...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brian Borowski
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's
Introduction to PHP
> > > > > > > > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for
FREE, please
> > > > > > > > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of
friends, or place
> > > > > > > > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful
and, feel free to
> > > > > > > > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > Hollie
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hollie Fischer
> > > > > > > > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > > > > > > > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > > > > > > > Berkeley CA 94710
> > > > > > > > phone 510.549.5938
> > > > > > > > fax 510.549.5939
> > > > > > > > www.apress.com
> > > > > > > > Visit our online catalog today!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > dclug mailing list
> > > > > > > > dclug@tux.org
> > > > > > > > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
>
>
>

Questions about programs under Linux.

[Anna Schneider]

All right, now that I have ordered my computer, and am in limbo until it 
arrives, and have rested my brain for a few days, I have a bunch more 
questions.

First, my understanding is that while Linux comes with some programs under 
it, many other have to be downloaded off the web.  Is this correct?  
Regardless of whether or not this is the case, I am curious about the 
following:


1.  Does any virus protection exist for Linux and if so, what programs 
would people recommend and how can I get them?


2.  I want to get the Emacs editor.  When I read some info on the 
Emacspeak site, it sounded like there are a couple of different Emacs 
packages available depending on what sorts of things I plan to do with 
Emacs.  Do I have to go find the package I want and download it?  And 
then, if I want to fill out my Emacs package even more, with the Dismal 
Spreadsheet for example, do I have to go download it too?

3.  Are there ways to open Word and Excel programs in Linux?

4.  Will I have to be compliling things before I use them and does Linux 
usually come with these complers or do I have to go find them too?

5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it considered to be 
equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or better?   This matters quite a bit 
actually.  If I need another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any exist 
for Linux?

6.  And last I hope and this is just a point of clarification, when you 
all talk about telnetting and ftyping and all that, you are doing from 
your machines right?  Do you have to dial in first to do those things from 
your machine or how does that work?


Okay, I think that's everything for now.  Have to go start reading How To 
documentation this weekend.

Anna

Questions about programs under Linux.

[Yvonne Smith]

Anna Schneider writes:
 > 
 > First, my understanding is that while Linux comes with some programs under 
 > it, many other have to be downloaded off the web.  Is this correct?  

Umm, I think you'll find that linux is the same as most operating
systems in that regard. In fact, most linux distributions, by default,
come with more software than, say, windows or macOS. But no matter how
much junk your distribution comes with, you'll probably have to download
some software from other places eventually, yes.

 > Regardless of whether or not this is the case, I am curious about the 
 > following:
 > 
 > 
 > 1.  Does any virus protection exist for Linux and if so, what programs 
 > would people recommend and how can I get them?
 > 
The easy answer is, there are no linux viruses, and don't worry about
it. The slightly more complicated answer goes something like, There are
*some*  viruses for linux in theory, and I think there have been some
 trojan horse programs where people have downloaded a destructive
program rather than the software they meant to download, but I've been
using linux for years now, and it's never happened to me. I don't think
you need to worry. Certainly none of the outlook viruses and soforth'll
get in under linux.

 > 2.  I want to get the Emacs editor.  When I read some info on the 
 > Emacspeak site, it sounded like there are a couple of different Emacs 
 > packages available depending on what sorts of things I plan to do with 
 > Emacs.  Do I have to go find the package I want and download it?  And 
 > then, if I want to fill out my Emacs package even more, with the Dismal 
 > Spreadsheet for example, do I have to go download it too?
 > 
Ok, emacs I'm better at, since I'm running emacspeak most of the time,
not speakup. Once you've installed emacs itself, depending on what you
want to do, you might not have to go any further. If you just want to
use it as an editor, what comes with it by default will do fine. But
there are a lot of emacs packages you can download to make the editor do
different things. Yes, you'll have to download dismal. There's a
sofisticated calculator called calc. There're two web-browsers native to
emacs. That's only the tip of the iceberg. 
All the stuff above you'll have to download and install, but unless you
need any of those things immediately, you should probably cross that
bridge when you come to it. Install emacs first, and then try to figure
out what else you want it to do, and we can probably give you pointers
to emacs packages. Although you'll probably be best to ask on the
emacspeak list or even a general emacs list for that kind of information.

 > 3.  Are there ways to open Word and Excel programs in Linux?
 > 
Umm, that kind of depends what you mean. If someone sends you a word
document, there are a couple of programs to turn it into text or
html. Catdoc, antiword and wordview are the three that spring to mind
off the top of my head.

excel spreadsheets are a bit more of a problem. I'm pretty sure I saw
something to turn them into html or something like that on the wordview
page, but I'd have to go do some more research, since I haven't really
looked in a while.

 > 4.  Will I have to be compliling things before I use them and does Linux 
 > usually come with these complers or do I have to go find them too?
 > 
You might have to compile software, depending on what you're looking
for. A standard distribution usually has all that stuff in it. Using
compiling a program consists of nothing more complicated that something
like typing configure make make install. Unless something really weird
happens, compiling most software is easy. there's usually a readme file
in the archive for the program that tells you what to do to install it.

 > 5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it considered to be 
 > equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or better?   This matters quite a bit 
 > actually.  If I need another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any exist 
 > for Linux?
 > 
Umm web browsers under linux for console users are a bit problematic. I
don't think there's anything we can use under linux that I'd consider
equivalent to ie4 or above. The things that are impossible for us under
linux that you're likely to encounter are javascriptand activex.

Javascript would be useable if we could use x-windows, but we
can't. Activex will probably never be useable, since it's a microsoft
scripting language. I don't know if this answers your question. Again,
you'll need to be a bit more specific about what you'll want to do.

 > 6.  And last I hope and this is just a point of clarification, when you 
 > all talk about telnetting and ftyping and all that, you are doing from 
 > your machines right?  Do you have to dial in first to do those things from 
 > your machine or how does that work?
 > 
Telnet and ftp are generally used to connect from one machine to
another. Almost certainly you'll want to be connected to the internet,
unless you've got a network at home, and need to talk to other machines
on your own network.


> 
 > Okay, I think that's everything for now.  Have to go start reading How To 
 > documentation this weekend.
 > 
 > Anna
 > 
 > 

Hope some of this is some help. More of this will make more sense when
you have the machine in front of you, and you're actually trying to do
things. At least, it'll make slightly more sense, <grin>.

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Igor Gueths]

Hi Anna. What distribution will you be using? I am currently working on configuring a Debian system. Most distributions come with C compilers, something you will use if you plan on installing Speakup. Most Linux software is sourcecode, so like Yvonne said, you can just mostly compile programs using configure make and make install. If you need any more help with linux, you can mail me at igueths@yahoo.com. Hope my information was of use, and good luck with installing and configuring linux!

Igor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Yvonne Smith <yvonne@thewatch.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: Questions about programs under Linux.


> Anna Schneider writes:
>  > 
>  > First, my understanding is that while Linux comes with some programs under 
>  > it, many other have to be downloaded off the web.  Is this correct?  
> 
> Umm, I think you'll find that linux is the same as most operating
> systems in that regard. In fact, most linux distributions, by default,
> come with more software than, say, windows or macOS. But no matter how
> much junk your distribution comes with, you'll probably have to download
> some software from other places eventually, yes.
> 
>  > Regardless of whether or not this is the case, I am curious about the 
>  > following:
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 1.  Does any virus protection exist for Linux and if so, what programs 
>  > would people recommend and how can I get them?
>  > 
> The easy answer is, there are no linux viruses, and don't worry about
> it. The slightly more complicated answer goes something like, There are
> *some*  viruses for linux in theory, and I think there have been some
>  trojan horse programs where people have downloaded a destructive
> program rather than the software they meant to download, but I've been
> using linux for years now, and it's never happened to me. I don't think
> you need to worry. Certainly none of the outlook viruses and soforth'll
> get in under linux.
> 
>  > 2.  I want to get the Emacs editor.  When I read some info on the 
>  > Emacspeak site, it sounded like there are a couple of different Emacs 
>  > packages available depending on what sorts of things I plan to do with 
>  > Emacs.  Do I have to go find the package I want and download it?  And 
>  > then, if I want to fill out my Emacs package even more, with the Dismal 
>  > Spreadsheet for example, do I have to go download it too?
>  > 
> Ok, emacs I'm better at, since I'm running emacspeak most of the time,
> not speakup. Once you've installed emacs itself, depending on what you
> want to do, you might not have to go any further. If you just want to
> use it as an editor, what comes with it by default will do fine. But
> there are a lot of emacs packages you can download to make the editor do
> different things. Yes, you'll have to download dismal. There's a
> sofisticated calculator called calc. There're two web-browsers native to
> emacs. That's only the tip of the iceberg. 
> All the stuff above you'll have to download and install, but unless you
> need any of those things immediately, you should probably cross that
> bridge when you come to it. Install emacs first, and then try to figure
> out what else you want it to do, and we can probably give you pointers
> to emacs packages. Although you'll probably be best to ask on the
> emacspeak list or even a general emacs list for that kind of information.
> 
>  > 3.  Are there ways to open Word and Excel programs in Linux?
>  > 
> Umm, that kind of depends what you mean. If someone sends you a word
> document, there are a couple of programs to turn it into text or
> html. Catdoc, antiword and wordview are the three that spring to mind
> off the top of my head.
> 
> excel spreadsheets are a bit more of a problem. I'm pretty sure I saw
> something to turn them into html or something like that on the wordview
> page, but I'd have to go do some more research, since I haven't really
> looked in a while.
> 
>  > 4.  Will I have to be compliling things before I use them and does Linux 
>  > usually come with these complers or do I have to go find them too?
>  > 
> You might have to compile software, depending on what you're looking
> for. A standard distribution usually has all that stuff in it. Using
> compiling a program consists of nothing more complicated that something
> like typing configure make make install. Unless something really weird
> happens, compiling most software is easy. there's usually a readme file
> in the archive for the program that tells you what to do to install it.
> 
>  > 5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it considered to be 
>  > equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or better?   This matters quite a bit 
>  > actually.  If I need another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any exist 
>  > for Linux?
>  > 
> Umm web browsers under linux for console users are a bit problematic. I
> don't think there's anything we can use under linux that I'd consider
> equivalent to ie4 or above. The things that are impossible for us under
> linux that you're likely to encounter are javascriptand activex.
> 
> Javascript would be useable if we could use x-windows, but we
> can't. Activex will probably never be useable, since it's a microsoft
> scripting language. I don't know if this answers your question. Again,
> you'll need to be a bit more specific about what you'll want to do.
> 
>  > 6.  And last I hope and this is just a point of clarification, when you 
>  > all talk about telnetting and ftyping and all that, you are doing from 
>  > your machines right?  Do you have to dial in first to do those things from 
>  > your machine or how does that work?
>  > 
> Telnet and ftp are generally used to connect from one machine to
> another. Almost certainly you'll want to be connected to the internet,
> unless you've got a network at home, and need to talk to other machines
> on your own network.
> 
> 
> > 
>  > Okay, I think that's everything for now.  Have to go start reading How To 
>  > documentation this weekend.
>  > 
>  > Anna
>  > 
>  > 
> 
> Hope some of this is some help. More of this will make more sense when
> you have the machine in front of you, and you're actually trying to do
> things. At least, it'll make slightly more sense, <grin>.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Wow, Anna, you certainly have a lot of questions!  I'll try to answer
some of them.  There are people on here who know more than I do and
can flesh out what I'm telling you.

>>>>> "Anna" == Anna Schneider <annas@drizzle.com> writes:

    Anna> All right, now that I have ordered my computer, and am in
    Anna> limbo until it arrives, and have rested my brain for a few
    Anna> days, I have a bunch more questions.

    Anna> First, my understanding is that while Linux comes with some
    Anna> programs under it, many other have to be downloaded off the
    Anna> web.  Is this correct?  Regardless of whether or not this is
    Anna> the case, I am curious about the following:


Yes, and no, If you start with a full set of CD's, you should have
enough basic programs to get you started.  However, if you want
additional programs, you will have to download them off the net.

    Anna> 1.  Does any virus protection exist for Linux and if so,
    Anna> what programs would people recommend and how can I get them?

<smiling sardonically>  Linux is emune to most of the computer viri
going around.  There are some basic security protections you should
take, but if you do your email in Linux, for example, you will not
have to worry about viri that are targeted for Microsoft products.



    Anna> 2.  I want to get the Emacs editor.  When I read some info
    Anna> on the Emacspeak site, it sounded like there are a couple of
    Anna> different Emacs packages available depending on what sorts
    Anna> of things I plan to do with Emacs.  Do I have to go find the
    Anna> package I want and download it?  And then, if I want to fill
    Anna> out my Emacs package even more, with the Dismal Spreadsheet
    Anna> for example, do I have to go download it too?

Again, yes and no.  the packages you're talking about are extensions
to the existing emacs package.  W3, e.g. is the web interface for
Emacs.  VM is the mailer that has been configured to work best with
emacspeak.  These programs do have to be downloaded from the net, but
they do not affect which version of Emacs you use.  You want to use
the latest version. 

    Anna> 3.  Are there ways to open Word and Excel programs in Linux?

No, there are currently no ways to open MSWord and MS-Excel in Linux,
the only equivalent packages are in X-Windows which is closed to the
blind at the moment.  However, and this is a big, big, big, however,
anything you write in Emacs is in plain text, unless you mark it up
for LaTeX, and you can incert any Emacs file into MSWord file.  I
dunnow how Dismal and Excel compare.  I think Raman uses Dismal, but
before I'd tackle Raman, I'd do some considerable reading.  He doesn't
like women and he doesn't like newbies and he doesn't communicate well
with nontechies.  My advice is, if you join the Emacspeak list, be
prepared to fight for yourself and to stand up to the techies there
and give 'em back whatever they dish out.  If you are not of a mind to
scrap with techies, then stick to this list.  The folks here are at
least friendly and helpful and they aren't arogant chauvinist ursine
individuals.  

    Anna> 4.  Will I have to be compliling things before I use them
    Anna> and does Linux usually come with these complers or do I have
    Anna> to go find them too?

Again, yes and no.  Depends on what flavor of Linux you decide to
use.  If you want ease of use and not too much compiling then you want
Debian.  

    Anna> 5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it
    Anna> considered to be equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or
    Anna> better?  This matters quite a bit actually.  If I need
    Anna> another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any exist for
    Anna> Linux?

Anna, Lynx is a nongraphical web browser.  "As good as" doesn't really
mean much when it comes to browsing the web.  You're comparing apples
and oranges.  Lynx can not access many of the graphical sites on the
net.  But it does a creditable job with most sites.  If you want web
chat, or pages with lots of Java script, then Lynx is not good.  You
may have to go to Windows for this.

    Anna> 6.  And last I hope and this is just a point of
    Anna> clarification, when you all talk about telnetting and
    Anna> ftyping and all that, you are doing from your machines
    Anna> right?  Do you have to dial in first to do those things from
    Anna> your machine or how does that work?

Yes, you telnet and FTP from your own machine, using your internet
provider's connection, either phone dialup or broadband.  You still
need an ISP, Anna, but you do FTP and telnet from your own machine.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Thomas Ward]

Hi, Anna. Ok, read further down. I put my comments below in the body of your
message.

----- Original Message -----
From: Anna Schneider <annas@drizzle.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Questions about programs under Linux.


>
> All right, now that I have ordered my computer, and am in limbo until it
> arrives, and have rested my brain for a few days, I have a bunch more
> questions.
>
> First, my understanding is that while Linux comes with some programs under
> it, many other have to be downloaded off the web.  Is this correct?



Hi, it all depends on the program. Red Hat 7.2 comes with almost all the
programs you want right out of the box.

> Regardless of whether or not this is the case, I am curious about the
> following:
>
>
> 1.  Does any virus protection exist for Linux and if so, what programs
> would people recommend and how can I get them?
>


Hi, there are a couple of virus programs out there, but they are not that
necessary. At last count I believe there were something like 6 virus's out
there for Linux, and the chanses of getting one of them is vary small.


>
> 2.  I want to get the Emacs editor.  When I read some info on the
> Emacspeak site, it sounded like there are a couple of different Emacs
> packages available depending on what sorts of things I plan to do with
> Emacs.  Do I have to go find the package I want and download it?  And
> then, if I want to fill out my Emacs package even more, with the Dismal
> Spreadsheet for example, do I have to go download it too?

Hi. Red Hat 7.2 comes with Emacs 20.7. So you don't need todownload Emacs.
However, some lisp extentions like Dismal and TNT will need to be
downloaded, compiled, and installed separate.

>
> 3.  Are there ways to open Word and Excel programs in Linux?

Yes, there is. You will want a program called Antiword to open MS Word
documents, and convert them to text format.
However, if you really want to do more than that with them you will need
Star Office which only works under X.

>
> 4.  Will I have to be compliling things before I use them and does Linux
> usually come with these complers or do I have to go find them too?


Again it all depends on the program. Most programs come in a binary package
in rpm, and can be installed without compiling. However, some programs do
need built from source, and all Linux distributions come with the gcc
compilers, and you don't need to get those extra.

>
> 5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it considered to be
> equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or better?   This matters quite a bit
> actually.  If I need another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any exist
> for Linux?

Hi, well this is a tricky question. Lynx is a text only browser. It works
well on most pages, but in many ways it is not equil to Internet Explorer
because you can not render graphics, use pages with Java script, etc.
However, a program called links, l i n k s, is also text based, but will
allow you to view pages with frames.
Until X is speech friendly we won't be able to use Netscape which is the
equil of Internet Explorer.



>
> 6.  And last I hope and this is just a point of clarification, when you
> all talk about telnetting and ftyping and all that, you are doing from
> your machines right?  Do you have to dial in first to do those things from
> your machine or how does that work?
>
 Yes. Linux has ftp, telnet, ssh, and etc. Basically, as far as ssh and
telnet goes it depends if you are telnetting outside your local network or
in your local network.
If I wanted to access my shell account on the colleges computers I'd have to
dial my modem then type telnet computername.domain.edu.
Otherwize if it is an internal telnet I just forget about dialing, and type
telnet ipname or telnet computername.internaldomain.com.



>
> Okay, I think that's everything for now.  Have to go start reading How To
> documentation this weekend.
>
> Anna
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Anna:

I know others have provided you some responses, but perhaps hearing these 
things in different ways from different folks will be helpful. So, here's 
my contribution ...


 On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Anna Schneider wrote:

> First, my understanding is that while Linux comes with some programs under 
> it, many other have to be downloaded off the web.  Is this correct?  

Well, yes, but this is the same for any system, right? Windows, for 
example, doesn't come with the Adobe PDF viewer called Adobe Reader, nor 
does it come with Win Amp or the ACB Tuner. I think you should expect that 
it will forever be the case that you'll need to get some software off the 
net, no matter who builds your system at first.

> 1.  Does any virus protection exist for Linux and if so, what programs 
> would people recommend and how can I get them?

Wrong question. You're showing your history with Windows. It's not a virus 
checker you want and need on linux. Rather, you want to be sure to 
practice safe computing by not opening the virtual door to your computer 
to anyone who might come wandering bye on the Internet. This is called 
firewalling, and it's a lot like having a lock on the front door of your 
house. Fortunately, the default Red Hat installation, these days, is to 
start with the lock locked. So, this is an issue you won't have to worry 
about at first. You'll find you can get out and do anything you need to do 
on the net just fine. And, by the time you need to open your door to 
someone else, you'll know more about linux and what's involved.

> > > 2.  I want to get the Emacs editor.
Included, by default, in the Red Hat installation.

> then, if I want to fill out my Emacs package even more, with the Dismal 
> Spreadsheet for example, do I have to go download it too?
A ha! You don't mean emacs, you mean emavcspeak, and ytou want to try to 
use the dismal spread sheet with emacs and emacspeak.

You will need to retrieve the emacspeak rpm, and install emacspeak using 
the rpm command. You can download the latest emacspeak rpm from:

	http://emacspeak.sf.net

But, before you can use emacspeak, you'll have to decide how it's going to 
coexist on your system with speakup. It certainly can coexist nicely, but 
there are some issues to address. Here are some of them:

a.)	Emacspeak and speakup cannot share the same speech synthesizer at 
the same time unless you patch your installation. This is not beginner's 
work. Let's not go further down this road unless we have to.

b.)	If you have a second speech synthesizer, you're home free. Have 
speakup talk through one, and emacspeak through the other, and you're on 
your way. Now, you should know that you have extra work to do to get 
emacspeak talking with anything other than DEC Talk. For example, if you 
want emacspeak to use the IBM ViaVoice software speech, you must first get 
and install it, then install emacspeak and then patch emacspeak to get the 
two working together. In the process you may lose the ability to play 
other sound files and streams while emacspeak is running with ViaVoice. 
Please note I sayd may and not will. It just depends.

c.)	Once you've taken care of the above, you can download and compile 
(see below) dismal. You'll also need to edit your emacs configurations to 
get it to work with dismal. Pwersonally, I would advise you to learn a bit 
about using linux before diving into this. My advice is to come back to 
this project after you've used linux for a few months. Don't start here, 
in other words.

 > > 3.  Are there ways to open Word and Excel programs in 
Linux? 
Not exactly. You don't open these "programs." Rather, you use a linux 
program to convert their data files into something you can read using 
linux programs.

> 4.  Will I have to be compliling things before I use them and does Linux 
> usually come with these complers or do I have to go find them too?

Your system will come with everything you need to compile programs. Think 
of it like getting a new suit. Windows people get their new programs from 
the one size fits all rack. Linux people go to the tailor and get a custom 
fit by compiling. Usually, compiling is as simple as the following four 
steps:

a.)	Uncompress the archive file you downloaded into a 
directory--usually with a command like:

	tar -xzpf [archive.name]

b.)	 cd into that directory.

c.)	type ./configure 

d.) when configuration finishes, type ./make

e.) When make finishes type ./make install

Simple, huh?

> > 5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it considered to be 
> equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or better?
Your Red Hat system will come with Lynx 2.8.4rel.1 (17 Jul 2001). This is 
a bit beyond the official lynx release of 2.8.3, but it's stable and works 
well. As a blind user, though, you're going to need some special settings 
to get it working comfortably. For example, by default lynx doesn't use 
the system cursor and just parks it at the bottom right corner of the 
screen. Not very helpful, imho. I've included my lynx.cfg file to get you 
started. Just pop it into /etc and your lynx experience will be pretty 
good right off the bat. Be sure you're root when you do that, though.

As to your question of whether Lynx is better the Microsoft Exploiter, 
well, did you really mean to start a war here? <grin>

Ask on this list, and we'll tell you it is, I think. At least, I suspect 
most of us will tell you that. But, what I think you really wanted to ask 
is what things lynx does well and doesn't do at all that Exploiter does 
do. That's a more realistic, less opinion prone, discussion. Let's just 
say that lynx is much faster than Exploiter at loading pages. And, if you 
edit your .mailcap and .mime files appropriately, and get Real Player for 
linux and the talking real player downloaded and installed (both available 
on the speakup web site), you'll find you can play all kinds of internet 
audio streams very well indeed. What doesn't lynx do? Well, it doesn't do 
javascript, and there are a lot of web sites these days that don't want 
your money or your business if you don't do javascript.

> actually.  If I need another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any exist 
> for Linux?
Not really. Not that we can really use, anyway. Though this one called 
netrik that we've been discussing the last few days looks promissing.

> 6.  And last I hope and this is just a point of clarification, when you 
> all talk about telnetting and ftyping and all that, you are doing from 
> your machines right?  Do you have to dial in first to do those things from 
> your machine or how does that work?
It just depends on how you connect to the internet. If your internet 
connection is made by dialing over a modem, that's what you'll do with 
linux. If you have a cable connection, or perhaps dsl, lucky you. You'll 
configure it once, and then it's just always there waiting to serve you.

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Janina, good post.  One point of clarification.  There are other web
browsers for Linux, most notably W3 which is an extension of Emacs.
Lynx doesn't work well in Emacs, not unless you have figured out the
commands to use for m-x term.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Anna Schneider]

Okay, I'm going to try and cut and paste a little bit which gets messy.

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Yvonne Smith wrote:

> 
>  > 2.  I want to get the Emacs editor.  When I read some info on the 
>  > Emacspeak site, it sounded like there are a couple of different Emacs 
>  > packages available depending on what sorts of things I plan to do with 
>  > Emacs.  Do I have to go find the package I want and download it?  And 
>  > then, if I want to fill out my Emacs package even more, with the Dismal 
>  > Spreadsheet for example, do I have to go download it too?
>  > 
> Ok, emacs I'm better at, since I'm running emacspeak most of the time,
> not speakup. Once you've installed emacs itself, depending on what you
> want to do, you might not have to go any further. If you just want to
> use it as an editor, what comes with it by default will do fine. But
> there are a lot of emacs packages you can download to make the editor do
> different things. Yes, you'll have to download dismal. There's a
> sofisticated calculator called calc. There're two web-browsers native to
> emacs. That's only the tip of the iceberg. 
> All the stuff above you'll have to download and install, but unless you
> need any of those things immediately, you should probably cross that
> bridge when you come to it. Install emacs first, and then try to figure
> out what else you want it to do, and we can probably give you pointers
> to emacs packages. Although you'll probably be best to ask on the
> emacspeak list or even a general emacs list for that kind of information.


Insertiont the first.  I'm guessing that Emacs is going to be my oh way of 
doing lots of stuff.  Writing documents, doing spread sheets, who nows 
what all else.  I don't want the fanciest package around, I'd just get 
confused, but I do want a fairly flexible one.  I won't worry about it 
tons until I do get my computer and install Emacs, but is there an place I 
could look to start reading up on it?

 >  > 3.  Are there ways to open Word 
and Excel programs in Linux? >  
> > Umm, that kind of depends what you mean. If someone sends you a word
> document, there are a couple of programs to turn it into text or
> html. Catdoc, antiword and wordview are the three that spring to mind
> off the top of my head.
> 
> excel spreadsheets are a bit more of a problem. I'm pretty sure I saw
> something to turn them into html or something like that on the wordview
> page, but I'd have to go do some more research, since I haven't really
> looked in a while.

Okay, do these programs to open/convert Word documents come with 
distributions generally speaking, or will I have to go dig them up 
somewhere.

>  > 5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it considered to be 
>  > equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or better?   This matters quite a bit 
>  > actually.  If I need another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any exist 
>  > for Linux?
>  > 
> Umm web browsers under linux for console users are a bit problematic. I
> don't think there's anything we can use under linux that I'd consider
> equivalent to ie4 or above. The things that are impossible for us under
> linux that you're likely to encounter are javascriptand activex.
> 
> Javascript would be useable if we could use x-windows, but we
> can't. Activex will probably never be useable, since it's a microsoft
> scripting language. I don't know if this answers your question. Again,
> you'll need to be a bit more specific about what you'll want to do.
Well, here's the thing.  I've just become a Mary Kay consultant, and if 
you go to the Mary Kay web sit, (www.marykay.com) there is a section 
called Intouch all one word, and this section has information under it for 
consultants, but I can't get in with lynx.  This is a problem.  Material 
such as an online version of the product guide are there.  In fact, I find 
several parts of Mary Ky's web site to be not easily lynx accessible.  I'm 
not sure why.  Maybe someone on this list could look and tell me.



> 
>  > 6.  And last I hope and this is just a point of clarification, when you 
>  > all talk about telnetting and ftyping and all that, you are doing from 
>  > your machines right?  Do you have to dial in first to do those things from 
>  > your machine or how does that work?
>  > 
> Telnet and ftp are generally used to connect from one machine to
> another. Almost certainly you'll want to be connected to the internet,
> unless you've got a network at home, and need to talk to other machines
> on your own network.
> 
> 
But see this is where I'm confused.  I've worked off of machines on a 
network with a couple different operating systems and you could ftp and 
telnet between some of those, and I've worked off of my old DOS computer 
at home where I have to dial up, but I haven't worked off of a linux 
machine that isn't hooked into a network.  That's why I'm confused.  If 
I'm not on a network but I have a Linux machine, do FTP and telnet come 
into play at all and if so how?

And thank you.  The answers were quite helpful.

Anna

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Thanks, Ann. I stand corrected.

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Janina, good post.  One point of clarification.  There are other web
> browsers for Linux, most notably W3 which is an extension of Emacs.
> Lynx doesn't work well in Emacs, not unless you have figured out the
> commands to use for m-x term.
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Yvonne Smith]

Anna Schneider writes:
 > Insertiont the first.  I'm guessing that Emacs is going to be my oh way of 
 > doing lots of stuff.  Writing documents, doing spread sheets, who nows 
 > what all else.  I don't want the fanciest package around, I'd just get 
 > confused, but I do want a fairly flexible one.  I won't worry about it 
 > tons until I do get my computer and install Emacs, but is there an place I 
 > could look to start reading up on it?
 > 
Well, this is where *I'm* a bit confused, <smile>. If you think you'll
be spending most of your time in emacs, then wouldn't emacspeak perhaps
be a better solution than speakup? Not that I've ever used emacs with
speakup, of course, so perhaps I'm at a bit of a disadvantage to comment
on that.

As for research on emacs, you might try www.emacswiki.org It's got quite
a lot of information. Let me know if there's something else you want to
know that's not up there. Your best resource though is probably going to
be the emacs manual once you install emacs.


 > > > Umm, that kind of depends what you mean. If someone sends you a word
 > > document, there are a couple of programs to turn it into text or
 > > html. Catdoc, antiword and wordview are the three that spring to mind
 > > off the top of my head.
 > > 
 > > excel spreadsheets are a bit more of a problem. I'm pretty sure I saw
 > > something to turn them into html or something like that on the wordview
 > > page, but I'd have to go do some more research, since I haven't really
 > > looked in a while.
 > 
 > Okay, do these programs to open/convert Word documents come with 
 > distributions generally speaking, or will I have to go dig them up 
 > somewhere.
 > 
I have absolutely no idea. Catdoc's definitely a debian package, since
that's what I'm using, but I haven't used any other distributions in
ages. My best answer is perhaps you'll have to download it, perhaps
not. You'll have to look at what your distributions's got when you get
it.

 > > Umm web browsers under linux for console users are a bit problematic. I
 > > don't think there's anything we can use under linux that I'd consider
 > > equivalent to ie4 or above. The things that are impossible for us under
 > > linux that you're likely to encounter are javascriptand activex.
 > > 
 > > Javascript would be useable if we could use x-windows, but we
 > > can't. Activex will probably never be useable, since it's a microsoft
 > > scripting language. I don't know if this answers your question. Again,
 > > you'll need to be a bit more specific about what you'll want to do.
 > Well, here's the thing.  I've just become a Mary Kay consultant, and if 
 > you go to the Mary Kay web sit, (www.marykay.com) there is a section 
 > called Intouch all one word, and this section has information under it for 
 > consultants, but I can't get in with lynx.  This is a problem.  Material 
 > such as an online version of the product guide are there.  In fact, I find 
 > several parts of Mary Ky's web site to be not easily lynx accessible.  I'm 
 > not sure why.  Maybe someone on this list could look and tell me.
 > 
*sigh* well there's your problem, right there. You can't use most of
 that site, since it's mainly javascript. AT least, I think it's
 javascript, I'm not entirely sure. I don't know what your solution will
 be for that. About the only even slightly feasable thing I can think of
 that will let you look at that website on the same machine as the rest
 of what you're doing would be winforlin or vmware, which run windows
 apps under a virtual machine in linux. But honestly, I'd say that's way
 too complicated to try and figure out in the beginning.

> 
 > 
 > > 
 > > Telnet and ftp are generally used to connect from one machine to
 > > another. Almost certainly you'll want to be connected to the internet,
 > > unless you've got a network at home, and need to talk to other machines
 > > on your own network.
 > > 
 > > 
 > But see this is where I'm confused.  I've worked off of machines on a 
 > network with a couple different operating systems and you could ftp and 
 > telnet between some of those, and I've worked off of my old DOS computer 
 > at home where I have to dial up, but I haven't worked off of a linux 
 > machine that isn't hooked into a network.  That's why I'm confused.  If 
 > I'm not on a network but I have a Linux machine, do FTP and telnet come 
 > into play at all and if so how?


Well they might come into play, depending once more, and I feel like
I've been saying this a lot, on what you're doing. Telnet lets you
connect to other machines on the net, like that weather service they've
been talking about on another thread here, and ftp lets you transfer
files. In both those cases you'll need to be connected to the
internet. Is this helpful?

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Yvonne Smith wrote:
> If you think you'll
> be spending most of your time in emacs, then wouldn't emacspeak perhaps
> be a better solution than speakup?

Why, for heaven's sake? Just because it has a similar name?? That would be 
silly.

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Yvonne Smith]

Janina Sajka writes:
 > On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Yvonne Smith wrote:
 > > If you think you'll
 > > be spending most of your time in emacs, then wouldn't emacspeak perhaps
 > > be a better solution than speakup?
 > 
 > Why, for heaven's sake? Just because it has a similar name?? That would be 
 > silly.

*sigh* no, that's not what I meant at all. Like I said, I'm in no
 position to judge, since I've really never used emacs under speakup. I
 merely thought if someone was going to spend a lot of time in emacs,
 the interface that emacspeak uses might be easier to use. I didn't mean
 it as a definite "you must use emacspeak" only as a "you should
 possibly use emacspeak" if you were going to say spend 80% of your
 computing time under emacs.

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Anna Schneider]

Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.

Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
I thought I'd ask to be sure.

Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
the next couple of months.

Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.

All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
much.

Anna

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Anna Schneider]

And this is in response to Evonne.

Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe I'll 
like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing sounds 
messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with the 
sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you suggested.

I'm not going to worry about the FTP and telnet thing anymore right now.  
I understand what they do, but I'm still rather confused how they are used 
on my machine when I'm dialing into a shell account elsewhere.  However, I 
can figure that out later.

Anna

peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Dave Hunt <]

Hi,

I have speakup and emacspeak both available on this computer, and am
glad of that.  I'm using Emacspeak, now, with the sound card acting as
my synthesizer.  One cannot do this, yet, with speakup.  While setting
the Linux side of this machine up, I didn't have the sound card
working under Linux for quite a while.  It was only with the help of
Speakup and this list that I was able to fix this.  If you can have
both, do it!

-Dave

Anna Schneider writes:
 > And this is in response to Evonne.
 > 
 > Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe I'll 
 > like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing sounds 
 > messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with the 
 > sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you suggested.

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

<smile>  I run both emacspeak and speakup at the same time.  Most of
the time I'm in Emacs, but I do use speakup for shell commands and
doing audio and stuff.  You can run them simultaneously in different
consoles.  Don't ask me how its done, but Matt Campbell informs me
that one no longer needs to patch speakup to work with Emacspeak.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Alex Snow]

If emaxspeak has the software synth, why cant speakup "steal" it? Arn't they
both Open source?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Hunt <" <wx1g@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 2:27 AM
Subject: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak


> Hi,
>
> I have speakup and emacspeak both available on this computer, and am
> glad of that.  I'm using Emacspeak, now, with the sound card acting as
> my synthesizer.  One cannot do this, yet, with speakup.  While setting
> the Linux side of this machine up, I didn't have the sound card
> working under Linux for quite a while.  It was only with the help of
> Speakup and this list that I was able to fix this.  If you can have
> both, do it!
>
> -Dave
>
> Anna Schneider writes:
>  > And this is in response to Evonne.
>  >
>  > Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe I'll
>  > like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing
sounds
>  > messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with the
>  > sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you suggested.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Isn't it a bit irresponsible to offer up advice for which you cannot even 
offer a reason? You thought it should be so? On what basis did you think 
this?

Or, is "think" the wrong word here?

 On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Yvonne Smith 
wrote:

> Janina Sajka writes:
>  > On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Yvonne Smith wrote:
>  > > If you think you'll
>  > > be spending most of your time in emacs, then wouldn't emacspeak perhaps
>  > > be a better solution than speakup?
>  > 
>  > Why, for heaven's sake? Just because it has a similar name?? That would be 
>  > silly.
> 
> *sigh* no, that's not what I meant at all. Like I said, I'm in no
>  position to judge, since I've really never used emacs under speakup. I
>  merely thought if someone was going to spend a lot of time in emacs,
>  the interface that emacspeak uses might be easier to use. I didn't mean
>  it as a definite "you must use emacspeak" only as a "you should
>  possibly use emacspeak" if you were going to say spend 80% of your
>  computing time under emacs.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Gregory Nowak]

No, viavoice is not open source, and Kirk R has already mentioned that he's in favor of running speakup with tuxtalk once it's done.
Greg

X
On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 09:36:42AM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> If emaxspeak has the software synth, why cant speakup "steal" it? Arn't they
> both Open source?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Hunt <" <wx1g@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 2:27 AM
> Subject: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have speakup and emacspeak both available on this computer, and am
> > glad of that.  I'm using Emacspeak, now, with the sound card acting as
> > my synthesizer.  One cannot do this, yet, with speakup.  While setting
> > the Linux side of this machine up, I didn't have the sound card
> > working under Linux for quite a while.  It was only with the help of
> > Speakup and this list that I was able to fix this.  If you can have
> > both, do it!
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > Anna Schneider writes:
> >  > And this is in response to Evonne.
> >  >
> >  > Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe I'll
> >  > like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing
> sounds
> >  > messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with the
> >  > sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you suggested.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Anna:

Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use 
all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just 
have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you 
want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you 
really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And, 
you'll never see those pesky frames again.

The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good, 
non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this 
javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is 
not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based 
standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now, 
unless you really want to know more.

As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce 
site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and 
gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But, 
a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology 
other people use. They think you should just change and do things there 
way.

 On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna 
Schneider wrote:

> Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> 
> Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
> about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
> and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
> I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> 
> Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
> along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
> the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
> all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
> the next couple of months.
> 
> Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
> hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
> 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
> still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> 
> All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
> much.
> 
> Anna
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Emacspeak can run with speech through your sound card, speakup cannot at 
this time.


On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna Schneider wrote:

> And this is in response to Evonne.
> 
> Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe I'll 
> like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing sounds 
> messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with the 
> sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you suggested.
> 
> I'm not going to worry about the FTP and telnet thing anymore right now.  
> I understand what they do, but I'm still rather confused how they are used 
> on my machine when I'm dialing into a shell account elsewhere.  However, I 
> can figure that out later.
> 
> Anna
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Janina Sajka]

I don't usually like to post email messages that only say, "I agree." But,
since I've been the bad guy here with some messages recently, let me just
say that I agree one can, and should, have both speakup and emacspeak, if
one wishes. As it happens, I do this myself.


 On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Dave Hunt < wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have speakup and emacspeak both available on this computer, and am
> glad of that.  I'm using Emacspeak, now, with the sound card acting as
> my synthesizer.  One cannot do this, yet, with speakup.  While setting
> the Linux side of this machine up, I didn't have the sound card
> working under Linux for quite a while.  It was only with the help of
> Speakup and this list that I was able to fix this.  If you can have
> both, do it!
> 
> -Dave
> 
> Anna Schneider writes:
>  > And this is in response to Evonne.
>  > 
>  > Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe I'll 
>  > like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing sounds 
>  > messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with the 
>  > sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you suggested.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Janina Sajka]

As it happens, IBM's ViaVoice is not open source.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> If emaxspeak has the software synth, why cant speakup "steal" it? Arn't they
> both Open source?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Hunt <" <wx1g@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 2:27 AM
> Subject: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have speakup and emacspeak both available on this computer, and am
> > glad of that.  I'm using Emacspeak, now, with the sound card acting as
> > my synthesizer.  One cannot do this, yet, with speakup.  While setting
> > the Linux side of this machine up, I didn't have the sound card
> > working under Linux for quite a while.  It was only with the help of
> > Speakup and this list that I was able to fix this.  If you can have
> > both, do it!
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > Anna Schneider writes:
> >  > And this is in response to Evonne.
> >  >
> >  > Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe I'll
> >  > like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing
> sounds
> >  > messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with the
> >  > sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you suggested.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

No, Speakup can not "steal" the software synthe because  irst of all,
the IBM Via Voice Outloud is *not* open source.  Second, Speakup needs
to speak from boot-up to shut-down, and the software synthe comes into
the process too late for that.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Buddy Brannan]

Not only is Viavoice not open source, it isn't free software,
either. (Yes, this is an important distinction.) 
-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3  | I choose you to take up all of my time.
Email: davros@ycardz.com | I choose you because you're funny and kind
                         | I want easy people from now on.
                         | --the Nields

book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Gregory Nowak]

If you save a book mark, does that go into a file that you can backup incase you have to reinstall your distro one day? If so, then what is the name and path of this file? Thanks.
Greg


On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 01:23:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Hi, Anna:
> 
> Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use 
> all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just 
> have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you 
> want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you 
> really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And, 
> you'll never see those pesky frames again.
> 
> The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good, 
> non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this 
> javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is 
> not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based 
> standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now, 
> unless you really want to know more.
> 
> As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce 
> site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and 
> gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But, 
> a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology 
> other people use. They think you should just change and do things there 
> way.
> 
>  On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna 
> Schneider wrote:
> 
> > Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> > 
> > Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
> > about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
> > and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
> > I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> > 
> > Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
> > along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
> > the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
> > all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
> > the next couple of months.
> > 
> > Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
> > hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
> > 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
> > still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> > 
> > All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
> > much.
> > 
> > Anna
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Of course.  Look at your .lynxrc to learn about it. 

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> If you save a book mark, does that go into a file that you can backup incase you have to reinstall your distro one day? If so, then what is the name and path of this file? Thanks.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 01:23:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Hi, Anna:
> > 
> > Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use 
> > all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just 
> > have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you 
> > want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you 
> > really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And, 
> > you'll never see those pesky frames again.
> > 
> > The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good, 
> > non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this 
> > javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is 
> > not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based 
> > standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now, 
> > unless you really want to know more.
> > 
> > As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce 
> > site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and 
> > gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But, 
> > a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology 
> > other people use. They think you should just change and do things there 
> > way.
> > 
> >  On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna 
> > Schneider wrote:
> > 
> > > Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> > > 
> > > Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
> > > about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
> > > and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
> > > I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> > > 
> > > Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
> > > along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
> > > the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
> > > all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
> > > the next couple of months.
> > > 
> > > Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
> > > hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
> > > 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
> > > still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> > > 
> > > All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
> > > much.
> > > 
> > > Anna
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Dan Murphy]

the file would be in your home directory, and unless it has been changed
in lynx.cfg, the file name should be lynx_bookmarks.html


Dan Murphy
mailto:mweeby@nycap.rr.com
http://home.nycap.rr.com/mweeby
Let us not look back in anger or forward
in fear, but around us in awareness.
                -- James Thurber

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Yvonne Smith]

Janina Sajka writes:
 > Isn't it a bit irresponsible to offer up advice for which you cannot even 
 > offer a reason? You thought it should be so? On what basis did you think 
 > this?
 > 
 > Or, is "think" the wrong word here?
 > 
I would really like to know here just precisely what I've said or done
to get this type of response. I put forward an *oppinion* it was not
really advice, it was an option for the user concerned. I know this list
is dedicated to speakup, and not emacspeak, and everyone would much
rather talk about one than the other but I never heard of anyone getting
blasted on this list for a theory.

Right at this particular moment, I am completely unable to *test* what
I've said myself, since due to circumstances I have absolutely no
intention of talking about here, I can't use my external synthesiser,
even if I wanted to. Should I then unsubscribe from this list and not
attempt to help another user?

So? Have you used emacs under speakup alone? Can you give more accurate
advice than I have?

Re: book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[jim bowman]

the book mark file is 
lynx_bookmarks.html  in your home directory.


On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> If you save a book mark, does that go into a file that you can backup incase you have to reinstall your distro one day? If so, then what is the name and path of this file? Thanks.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 01:23:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Hi, Anna:
> > 
> > Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use 
> > all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just 
> > have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you 
> > want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you 
> > really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And, 
> > you'll never see those pesky frames again.
> > 
> > The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good, 
> > non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this 
> > javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is 
> > not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based 
> > standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now, 
> > unless you really want to know more.
> > 
> > As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce 
> > site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and 
> > gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But, 
> > a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology 
> > other people use. They think you should just change and do things there 
> > way.
> > 
> >  On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna 
> > Schneider wrote:
> > 
> > > Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> > > 
> > > Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
> > > about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
> > > and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
> > > I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> > > 
> > > Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
> > > along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
> > > the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
> > > all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
> > > the next couple of months.
> > > 
> > > Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
> > > hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
> > > 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
> > > still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> > > 
> > > All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
> > > much.
> > > 
> > > Anna
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

I have no objection to your opinion. But, an opinion isn't a theory. Nor 
does it warrant telling a new user "maybe you should ..."

Have I used emacs with speakup. Of course. Often. It's not the same as 
emacspeak, but many things work very very well. Some things, like 
calendar, are splendid in emacspeak and tortuous with speakup. But, that's 
an exception, not the rule.

Why am I so steamed. Because you didn't have a reason, and reasons are 
most certainly called for when you start telling new users what to do. As 
it happens, emacspeak has a pretty steep learning curve, and there's 
precious little support when users don't remember what to do. And, there's 
no support for the boot process itself. All this stands to reason, of 
course, because emacspeak isn't a screen reader, as Raman plainly says in 
the Emacspeak FAQ.

On the other hand, speakup is a screen reader. It chatters verbosely from 
a very early point. It is forgiving because all the information on screen 
is available to be purused over and over, ad nauseum. The instructions for 
using speakup will fit on one page, and that's just a lot easier for 
someone new to pick up. Learning linux well enough to do some basics can 
be enough of a chore on its own. 

I just think the options, and the conbcombitant requisites should be laid
out clearly and honestly.

So, please, you're welcome to your opinions. That is your perogative. But, 
if you take on the guise of an experienced user telling a new user what 
they should consider doing, have the good grace to explain why and what's 
involved. I think expecting you to justify your advice is very reasonable. 
And, if you don't want to do that, what's the point of expressing an 
opinion. We're not taking a poll last I looked.



 On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Yvonne Smith wrote:

> Janina Sajka writes:
>  > Isn't it a bit irresponsible to offer up advice for which you cannot even 
>  > offer a reason? You thought it should be so? On what basis did you think 
>  > this?
>  > 
>  > Or, is "think" the wrong word here?
>  > 
> I would really like to know here just precisely what I've said or done
> to get this type of response. I put forward an *oppinion* it was not
> really advice, it was an option for the user concerned. I know this list
> is dedicated to speakup, and not emacspeak, and everyone would much
> rather talk about one than the other but I never heard of anyone getting
> blasted on this list for a theory.
> 
> Right at this particular moment, I am completely unable to *test* what
> I've said myself, since due to circumstances I have absolutely no
> intention of talking about here, I can't use my external synthesiser,
> even if I wanted to. Should I then unsubscribe from this list and not
> attempt to help another user?
> 
> So? Have you used emacs under speakup alone? Can you give more accurate
> advice than I have?
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Gregory Nowak]

Didn't even know there was a .lynxrc. Guess I should know more about the software I use on a dayly basis (chuckle).
Greg


On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:08:13PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Of course.  Look at your .lynxrc to learn about it. 
> 
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > If you save a book mark, does that go into a file that you can backup incase you have to reinstall your distro one day? If so, then what is the name and path of this file? Thanks.
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 01:23:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Hi, Anna:
> > > 
> > > Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use 
> > > all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just 
> > > have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you 
> > > want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you 
> > > really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And, 
> > > you'll never see those pesky frames again.
> > > 
> > > The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good, 
> > > non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this 
> > > javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is 
> > > not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based 
> > > standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now, 
> > > unless you really want to know more.
> > > 
> > > As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce 
> > > site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and 
> > > gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But, 
> > > a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology 
> > > other people use. They think you should just change and do things there 
> > > way.
> > > 
> > >  On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna 
> > > Schneider wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> > > > 
> > > > Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
> > > > about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
> > > > and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
> > > > I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> > > > 
> > > > Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
> > > > along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
> > > > the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
> > > > all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
> > > > the next couple of months.
> > > > 
> > > > Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
> > > > hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
> > > > 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
> > > > still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> > > > 
> > > > All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
> > > > much.
> > > > 
> > > > Anna
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > 	
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > 
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > 
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

It's called:

.bookmarks

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Anna Schneider]

Okay.  I will start book marking things.  I've thought about it but never 
done it much.  Um, and I'll se if I can get my web site under Mary Kay 
designed on my own terms, not that I know anything about web design yet.  
A web site is a bonus, customers can order from me through it and I won't 
have to mail or otherwise deliver prduct that they order that way.  But if 
I can't access my own site that's a bit silly.

Thanks again.

Anna

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Hi, Anna:
> 
> Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use 
> all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just 
> have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you 
> want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you 
> really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And, 
> you'll never see those pesky frames again.
> 
> The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good, 
> non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this 
> javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is 
> not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based 
> standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now, 
> unless you really want to know more.
> 
> As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce 
> site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and 
> gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But, 
> a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology 
> other people use. They think you should just change and do things there 
> way.
> 
>  On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna 
> Schneider wrote:
> 
> > Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> > 
> > Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
> > about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
> > and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
> > I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> > 
> > Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
> > along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
> > the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
> > all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
> > the next couple of months.
> > 
> > Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
> > hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
> > 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
> > still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> > 
> > All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
> > much.
> > 
> > Anna
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Anna Schneider]

So I'm hearing Viavoice mentioned a lot.  Wat exactly does it do?  Is it 
software that I will need or just one of the existing options.

Anna

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> Not only is Viavoice not open source, it isn't free software,
> either. (Yes, this is an important distinction.) 
> 

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Ladies, ladies, good grief, we're beginning to sound like the other
lists on the Internet.  I thought the Speakup list was different.  No,
Yvonne you don't have to unsub.  Good Heavens.  I haven't tried Emacs
with just speakup mainly because I'm running emacspeak and it works so
well.  I do understand that speakup had or has some cursoring issues
which are being worked on, but also understand that some people do use
emacs with speakup successfully.  

In my personal opinion, I think running both together if you can makes
sense and should be done.  You get more out of your computer that way.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Some very useful things you can set in your .lynxrc, as well as in your 
lynx.cfg. If you'd like mine to get you started, I'm happy to share.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Didn't even know there was a .lynxrc. Guess I should know more about the software I use on a dayly basis (chuckle).
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:08:13PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Of course.  Look at your .lynxrc to learn about it. 
> > 
> > On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > If you save a book mark, does that go into a file that you can backup incase you have to reinstall your distro one day? If so, then what is the name and path of this file? Thanks.
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 01:23:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > Hi, Anna:
> > > > 
> > > > Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use 
> > > > all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just 
> > > > have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you 
> > > > want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you 
> > > > really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And, 
> > > > you'll never see those pesky frames again.
> > > > 
> > > > The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good, 
> > > > non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this 
> > > > javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is 
> > > > not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based 
> > > > standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now, 
> > > > unless you really want to know more.
> > > > 
> > > > As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce 
> > > > site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and 
> > > > gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But, 
> > > > a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology 
> > > > other people use. They think you should just change and do things there 
> > > > way.
> > > > 
> > > >  On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna 
> > > > Schneider wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
> > > > > about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
> > > > > and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
> > > > > I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
> > > > > along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
> > > > > the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
> > > > > all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
> > > > > the next couple of months.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
> > > > > hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
> > > > > 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
> > > > > still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> > > > > 
> > > > > All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
> > > > > much.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Anna
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > 	
> > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > 
> > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > 
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[randy turner]

hi,
yes the name of the file is
lynx_bookmarks.html
i back up that file all of the time.
randy


On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> If you save a book mark, does that go into a file that you can backup incase you have to reinstall your distro one day? If so, then what is the name and path of this file? Thanks.
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 01:23:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Hi, Anna:
> >
> > Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use
> > all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just
> > have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you
> > want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you
> > really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And,
> > you'll never see those pesky frames again.
> >
> > The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good,
> > non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this
> > javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is
> > not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based
> > standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now,
> > unless you really want to know more.
> >
> > As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce
> > site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and
> > gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But,
> > a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology
> > other people use. They think you should just change and do things there
> > way.
> >
> >  On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna
> > Schneider wrote:
> >
> > > Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> > >
> > > Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing
> > > about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else
> > > and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.
> > > I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> > >
> > > Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly
> > > along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are
> > > the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also
> > > all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for
> > > the next couple of months.
> > >
> > > Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally
> > > hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie
> > > 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey
> > > still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> > >
> > > All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very
> > > much.
> > >
> > > Anna
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Janina Sajka]

ViaVoice for linux is IBM text to speech software that works with a sound 
card. It's the thing customarily known as software speech--like Eloquence 
for JFW and Window-Eyes on Windows. In other words, you use the generic 
sound card instead of a hardware speech sytnthesizer.

Will you need it? Perhaps. It won't be that hard to install if and when 
the time comes. The hardest part, in my view, is filling out the form at 
the IBM web site that grants you the license to get a copy.
 On Sun, 10 Mar 
2002, Anna Schneider wrote:

> So I'm hearing Viavoice mentioned a lot.  Wat exactly does it do?  Is it 
> software that I will need or just one of the existing options.
> 
> Anna
> 
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Buddy Brannan wrote:
> 
> > Not only is Viavoice not open source, it isn't free software,
> > either. (Yes, this is an important distinction.) 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

I dunnow why I'm in this argument.  Hmmmm, yes, maybe I do.  I think
it's because I like and use both Emacspeak and Speakup simultaneously
all day everyday.    Let me see if I can explain Yvonne's position,
and she can correct me if I'm wrong.

If you start with Emacspeak, as I did, you are starting from the same
position as a noncomputer user or a user who's experience has been
limited.  Yes, the learning curve is steep, and you must learn Emacs
while learning Emacspeak.  this is no different from the Windows user
who wants to learn Windows, Window-eyes and MSWord at the same time.
The position is really the same.  The task here in the main is to
learn the editor, not to learn about the OS.  This is good if you want
to be proficient in an editor and you have need of one that will
accept add-on programs and use the same types of commands for all
these add-ons, much as does learning all the Windows stuff carry over
from appl to app.  Emacs is a fantastic editor, my personal opinion.
Once learned, it is powerful and versatile and its desktop is handy
and so on. For the new Linux user who has an immediate need for
programs rather than knowledge of the OS, Emacspeak is perhaps the
best route to go.  Is this what you mean, Yvonne? 

Now, Janina, speakup is fantastic too, but for a vastly different
reason.  Speakup gives you access to the Linux OS, the underpinning
for the software.  It allows you to get at the nitty-gritty behind the
user-friendly interface and gaze at the guts of the OS, if you will.
the reason Speakup is so simple to use is that it is a tool for
getting at other programs and to the OS itself.  It is not an editor.
Sure one can learn to run speakup in an hour, however, it won't do you
a hoot in Hell if you don't have some idea as to what
program/interface commands you want to access and why.  One is still
faced with the task of learning application software.  Just a flea in
your ear, I came to realize the true value of Speakup only recently
when I started wanting to read about the OS and to understand what the
heck was going on with it.  This interest came after, way after I had
alreadly learned Emacs and Emacspeak.  

>From reading the newbie's posts, it sounds to me as if the need is for
application software rather than for training in the OS.  That may
come in time, which is why I'm for installing both programs; Emacspeak
and Speakup.  If I were going to give advice, or an opinion based on
the newbie's post, I'd vote for installing Emacspeak first, then move
on to Speakup and learn about the OS.  

Has that clarified anything ladies?  Please let's not fight here, it's
so detros.  And besides, it confuses the people who are asking our
advice.  

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: book marks and lynx, was: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Gregory Nowak]

Thank you for the offer, but I have my own lynx.cfg which I set up so that it suits my tastes just fine.
Greg


On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 06:42:56PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Some very useful things you can set in your .lynxrc, as well as in your 
> lynx.cfg. If you'd like mine to get you started, I'm happy to share.
> 
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> 
> > Didn't even know there was a .lynxrc. Guess I should know more about the software I use on a dayly basis (chuckle).
> > Greg
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:08:13PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Of course.  Look at your .lynxrc to learn about it. 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > 
> > > > If you save a book mark, does that go into a file that you can backup incase you have to reinstall your distro one day? If so, then what is the name and path of this file? Thanks.
> > > > Greg
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 01:23:25PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > Hi, Anna:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Just a quick note about Lynx and frames -- If there's some site you use 
> > > > > all the time where you have to choose one or more frames first, or just 
> > > > > have to choose one or more links before you get to the actual part you 
> > > > > want, there's a better way to handle that. You can bookmark the page you 
> > > > > really want. In lynx, just use the 'a' command to add a bookmark. And, 
> > > > > you'll never see those pesky frames again.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The javascript thing is much tougher. As of today, we don't have a good, 
> > > > > non-Windows option for pages that insist on javascript. What is this 
> > > > > javascript thing? It's another coding scheme for online content which is 
> > > > > not supported by lynx primarily because it isn't an open, consensus based 
> > > > > standard. I could go on about it, but I'll pass up doing so just now, 
> > > > > unless you really want to know more.
> > > > > 
> > > > > As for your own end of things, you can most certainly host an e-commerce 
> > > > > site on the web that takes people's credit card information securely and 
> > > > > gives you orders. All of that can be put together without javascript. But, 
> > > > > a lot of places that do this, aren't very concerned about what technology 
> > > > > other people use. They think you should just change and do things there 
> > > > > way.
> > > > > 
> > > > >  On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Anna 
> > > > > Schneider wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Wow, Janina, much info.  I'm filing it away.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Tank you for the clarification about fiewalling.  I actually know nothing 
> > > > > > about viruses.  I'm still in DOS and don't download e-mail or anyting else 
> > > > > > and so haven't had to worry.  It was my mom who was all worried about it.  
> > > > > > I thought I'd ask to be sure.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Regarding Emacs and Emacs Speak, I'm going to have to learn tem quickly 
> > > > > > along with everything else.  That's just the position I'm in.  These are 
> > > > > > the months of cram.  I'm starting to learn how to run a business and also 
> > > > > > all kinds of new computer stuff and I'm just going to be mentally full for 
> > > > > > the next couple of months.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Didn't mean to raise any web browser contraversy.  *rin*  I personally 
> > > > > > hate that Lynx is treated like crap.  I was quoting the web site on the Ie 
> > > > > > 4.0 or better part.  And I can get through frames with Lynx but tthey 
> > > > > > still suck in my opinion.  Just one more layer I have to go through.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > All right, I am saving this message to reference later and thank you very 
> > > > > > much.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Anna
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > 	
> > > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > 
> > > > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > 
> > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > 	
> > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > 
> > > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > 
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Ann:

Good post. And, I certainly have no quarrel with your experience.

I do want to point out, however, that there are many of us who use emacs 
very profitably with speakup. I recognize, for my part, that this sounds 
incredible to many with deep emacspeak experience, but it is nevertheless 
true. Given this fact, you haven't really contrasted the two, imho. 


Furthermore, using speakup by no means limits one to OS access alone. 
That's just simply untrue. In fact, the truth of the matter is that 
speakup facilitates access to many more applications than emacspeak, 
because it doesn't require someone to sit down and write a special 
interface for each and every application, as Raman does when he 
"speechifies" (his word, not mine) some app that runs in the emacs 
environment.

No, I think if you're going to make an argument here, you're necessarily 
going to find it reduced to claims of superior access to particular 
functions. For my part, I don't buy that either. I don't find one or the 
other superior, just different. And that's A-OK by me.


 On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I dunnow why I'm in this argument.  Hmmmm, yes, maybe I do.  I think
> it's because I like and use both Emacspeak and Speakup simultaneously
> all day everyday.    Let me see if I can explain Yvonne's position,
> and she can correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> If you start with Emacspeak, as I did, you are starting from the same
> position as a noncomputer user or a user who's experience has been
> limited.  Yes, the learning curve is steep, and you must learn Emacs
> while learning Emacspeak.  this is no different from the Windows user
> who wants to learn Windows, Window-eyes and MSWord at the same time.
> The position is really the same.  The task here in the main is to
> learn the editor, not to learn about the OS.  This is good if you want
> to be proficient in an editor and you have need of one that will
> accept add-on programs and use the same types of commands for all
> these add-ons, much as does learning all the Windows stuff carry over
> from appl to app.  Emacs is a fantastic editor, my personal opinion.
> Once learned, it is powerful and versatile and its desktop is handy
> and so on. For the new Linux user who has an immediate need for
> programs rather than knowledge of the OS, Emacspeak is perhaps the
> best route to go.  Is this what you mean, Yvonne? 
> 
> Now, Janina, speakup is fantastic too, but for a vastly different
> reason.  Speakup gives you access to the Linux OS, the underpinning
> for the software.  It allows you to get at the nitty-gritty behind the
> user-friendly interface and gaze at the guts of the OS, if you will.
> the reason Speakup is so simple to use is that it is a tool for
> getting at other programs and to the OS itself.  It is not an editor.
> Sure one can learn to run speakup in an hour, however, it won't do you
> a hoot in Hell if you don't have some idea as to what
> program/interface commands you want to access and why.  One is still
> faced with the task of learning application software.  Just a flea in
> your ear, I came to realize the true value of Speakup only recently
> when I started wanting to read about the OS and to understand what the
> heck was going on with it.  This interest came after, way after I had
> alreadly learned Emacs and Emacspeak.  
> 
> >From reading the newbie's posts, it sounds to me as if the need is for
> application software rather than for training in the OS.  That may
> come in time, which is why I'm for installing both programs; Emacspeak
> and Speakup.  If I were going to give advice, or an opinion based on
> the newbie's post, I'd vote for installing Emacspeak first, then move
> on to Speakup and learn about the OS.  
> 
> Has that clarified anything ladies?  Please let's not fight here, it's
> so detros.  And besides, it confuses the people who are asking our
> advice.  
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Dave Hunt <]

We're referring, here, to IBM's Viavoice text-to-speech engine.  If
you decide to try it, you'll have to download and install it.  There
are Redhat binary packages available.

-Dave

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Anna, Via Voice Outloud is software speech.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Jannina, great post.  Yes, I do know people who use emacs with
speakup, and I know it works because I've tried it myself.  I like the
ease of use of Emacspeak, however.  

<smile>  I think you're right.  It's a matter of choice, and isn't
that what makes us independent?   One of my reasons for liking
Emacspeak is the sound icons.  I confess I like them a great deal and
think that they are one of the nicest things about the program.
However, as you say, it's all personal preference.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

Hey, Ann:

The few times I've heard those emacspeak audio icons, I've loved them. 
Unfortunately, I usually have to run my emacspeak using ViaVoice, and my 
sound card usually refuses to do both audio icons and software speech at 
the same time. Regretable.
 On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Ann Parsons wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Jannina, great post.  Yes, I do know people who use emacs with
> speakup, and I know it works because I've tried it myself.  I like the
> ease of use of Emacspeak, however.  
> 
> <smile>  I think you're right.  It's a matter of choice, and isn't
> that what makes us independent?   One of my reasons for liking
> Emacspeak is the sound icons.  I confess I like them a great deal and
> think that they are one of the nicest things about the program.
> However, as you say, it's all personal preference.
> 
> Ann P.
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Thomas Ward]

Hi, anna. As to your questions again Red Hat comes with Emacs and so does
most other distributions. that will be enough to get started with.
As for Word/Excel document converters those usually need to be grabbed extra
from other web sites.

----- Original Message -----
From: Anna Schneider <annas@drizzle.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.


> Okay, I'm going to try and cut and paste a little bit which gets messy.
>
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Yvonne Smith wrote:
>
> >
> >  > 2.  I want to get the Emacs editor.  When I read some info on the
> >  > Emacspeak site, it sounded like there are a couple of different Emacs
> >  > packages available depending on what sorts of things I plan to do
with
> >  > Emacs.  Do I have to go find the package I want and download it?  And
> >  > then, if I want to fill out my Emacs package even more, with the
Dismal
> >  > Spreadsheet for example, do I have to go download it too?
> >  >
> > Ok, emacs I'm better at, since I'm running emacspeak most of the time,
> > not speakup. Once you've installed emacs itself, depending on what you
> > want to do, you might not have to go any further. If you just want to
> > use it as an editor, what comes with it by default will do fine. But
> > there are a lot of emacs packages you can download to make the editor do
> > different things. Yes, you'll have to download dismal. There's a
> > sofisticated calculator called calc. There're two web-browsers native to
> > emacs. That's only the tip of the iceberg.
> > All the stuff above you'll have to download and install, but unless you
> > need any of those things immediately, you should probably cross that
> > bridge when you come to it. Install emacs first, and then try to figure
> > out what else you want it to do, and we can probably give you pointers
> > to emacs packages. Although you'll probably be best to ask on the
> > emacspeak list or even a general emacs list for that kind of
information.
>
>
> Insertiont the first.  I'm guessing that Emacs is going to be my oh way of
> doing lots of stuff.  Writing documents, doing spread sheets, who nows
> what all else.  I don't want the fanciest package around, I'd just get
> confused, but I do want a fairly flexible one.  I won't worry about it
> tons until I do get my computer and install Emacs, but is there an place I
> could look to start reading up on it?
>
>  >  > 3.  Are there ways to open Word
> and Excel programs in Linux? >
> > > Umm, that kind of depends what you mean. If someone sends you a word
> > document, there are a couple of programs to turn it into text or
> > html. Catdoc, antiword and wordview are the three that spring to mind
> > off the top of my head.
> >
> > excel spreadsheets are a bit more of a problem. I'm pretty sure I saw
> > something to turn them into html or something like that on the wordview
> > page, but I'd have to go do some more research, since I haven't really
> > looked in a while.
>
> Okay, do these programs to open/convert Word documents come with
> distributions generally speaking, or will I have to go dig them up
> somewhere.
>
> >  > 5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it considered to be
> >  > equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or better?   This matters quite a
bit
> >  > actually.  If I need another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any
exist
> >  > for Linux?
> >  >
> > Umm web browsers under linux for console users are a bit problematic. I
> > don't think there's anything we can use under linux that I'd consider
> > equivalent to ie4 or above. The things that are impossible for us under
> > linux that you're likely to encounter are javascriptand activex.
> >
> > Javascript would be useable if we could use x-windows, but we
> > can't. Activex will probably never be useable, since it's a microsoft
> > scripting language. I don't know if this answers your question. Again,
> > you'll need to be a bit more specific about what you'll want to do.
> Well, here's the thing.  I've just become a Mary Kay consultant, and if
> you go to the Mary Kay web sit, (www.marykay.com) there is a section
> called Intouch all one word, and this section has information under it for
> consultants, but I can't get in with lynx.  This is a problem.  Material
> such as an online version of the product guide are there.  In fact, I find
> several parts of Mary Ky's web site to be not easily lynx accessible.  I'm
> not sure why.  Maybe someone on this list could look and tell me.
>
>
>
> >
> >  > 6.  And last I hope and this is just a point of clarification, when
you
> >  > all talk about telnetting and ftyping and all that, you are doing
from
> >  > your machines right?  Do you have to dial in first to do those things
from
> >  > your machine or how does that work?
> >  >
> > Telnet and ftp are generally used to connect from one machine to
> > another. Almost certainly you'll want to be connected to the internet,
> > unless you've got a network at home, and need to talk to other machines
> > on your own network.
> >
> >
> But see this is where I'm confused.  I've worked off of machines on a
> network with a couple different operating systems and you could ftp and
> telnet between some of those, and I've worked off of my old DOS computer
> at home where I have to dial up, but I haven't worked off of a linux
> machine that isn't hooked into a network.  That's why I'm confused.  If
> I'm not on a network but I have a Linux machine, do FTP and telnet come
> into play at all and if so how?
>
> And thank you.  The answers were quite helpful.
>
> Anna
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Thomas Ward]

Hi, Emacspeak will allow you to use Viavoice which will let you run
everything via sound card.
However, both have advantages/disadvantages. For example if you will be
working with Dismal Emacspeak 15 works great with it where Speakup really
has troubles.However, with things like pine and  links or lynx speakup
excels at those apps.
Emacspeak lets you read entire text files with a say all mode where speakup
will only let you read one screen at a time.
These are just differences that they have. So  I tend to use both for
maximum effect. Just depends on what it is I am doing.


----- Original Message -----
From: Anna Schneider <annas@drizzle.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.


> And this is in response to Evonne.
>
> Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe I'll
> like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing sounds
> messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with the
> sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you suggested.
>
> I'm not going to worry about the FTP and telnet thing anymore right now.
> I understand what they do, but I'm still rather confused how they are used
> on my machine when I'm dialing into a shell account elsewhere.  However, I
> can figure that out later.
>
> Anna
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Thomas Ward]

This is correct. The easiest way to do Emacspeak and Speakup is simply to
press the scrole key on the keyboard and you kill Speakup, and can launch
Emacspeak with Viavoice.
When you are done with Emacspeak you can press that key again to reload
speakup. At least that is how I do it.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.


> Hi all,
>
> <smile>  I run both emacspeak and speakup at the same time.  Most of
> the time I'm in Emacs, but I do use speakup for shell commands and
> doing audio and stuff.  You can run them simultaneously in different
> consoles.  Don't ask me how its done, but Matt Campbell informs me
> that one no longer needs to patch speakup to work with Emacspeak.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak

[Thomas Ward]

Hi. Well, several reasons. Emacspeak uses IBM Viavoice wich is not Open
source and not covered under the GPL. However Viavoice is free to download
from IBM.
Second reason is that Speakup isn't quite ready for software speech. It
still needs some work done to get Speakup to build as a module.


----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Snow <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak


> If emaxspeak has the software synth, why cant speakup "steal" it? Arn't
they
> both Open source?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Hunt <" <wx1g@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 2:27 AM
> Subject: peaceful coexistence of Speakup and Emacspeak
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have speakup and emacspeak both available on this computer, and am
> > glad of that.  I'm using Emacspeak, now, with the sound card acting as
> > my synthesizer.  One cannot do this, yet, with speakup.  While setting
> > the Linux side of this machine up, I didn't have the sound card
> > working under Linux for quite a while.  It was only with the help of
> > Speakup and this list that I was able to fix this.  If you can have
> > both, do it!
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > Anna Schneider writes:
> >  > And this is in response to Evonne.
> >  >
> >  > Speak Up and Emacs Speak.  Right now I'm going to try bot.  Maybe
I'll
> >  > like one better than the other, though the whole synthesizer thing
> sounds
> >  > messy.  I'll have to think about that.  Can either program run with
the
> >  > sound card only?  And I'll go do reading on Emacs where you
suggested.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Thomas Ward]

Hi, great speech, Anne. Like Anne I learned Emacspeak before Speakup, and it
was steep, but not as bad as one might think.  Especially, now there is alot
more documentation on Emacspeak, and I find it quite helpful even as a old
Emacspeak hand.
I think what Anna is trying to do is get her business going, and she will
need the full power of Emacs to do that. That will require Emacspeak to
really use the calendar programs, addressbooks, spreadsheets, and Speakup
doesn't always do well with lisp extentions for Emacs.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann Parsons <akp@eznet.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Questions about programs under Linux.


> Hi all,
>
> I dunnow why I'm in this argument.  Hmmmm, yes, maybe I do.  I think
> it's because I like and use both Emacspeak and Speakup simultaneously
> all day everyday.    Let me see if I can explain Yvonne's position,
> and she can correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> If you start with Emacspeak, as I did, you are starting from the same
> position as a noncomputer user or a user who's experience has been
> limited.  Yes, the learning curve is steep, and you must learn Emacs
> while learning Emacspeak.  this is no different from the Windows user
> who wants to learn Windows, Window-eyes and MSWord at the same time.
> The position is really the same.  The task here in the main is to
> learn the editor, not to learn about the OS.  This is good if you want
> to be proficient in an editor and you have need of one that will
> accept add-on programs and use the same types of commands for all
> these add-ons, much as does learning all the Windows stuff carry over
> from appl to app.  Emacs is a fantastic editor, my personal opinion.
> Once learned, it is powerful and versatile and its desktop is handy
> and so on. For the new Linux user who has an immediate need for
> programs rather than knowledge of the OS, Emacspeak is perhaps the
> best route to go.  Is this what you mean, Yvonne?
>
> Now, Janina, speakup is fantastic too, but for a vastly different
> reason.  Speakup gives you access to the Linux OS, the underpinning
> for the software.  It allows you to get at the nitty-gritty behind the
> user-friendly interface and gaze at the guts of the OS, if you will.
> the reason Speakup is so simple to use is that it is a tool for
> getting at other programs and to the OS itself.  It is not an editor.
> Sure one can learn to run speakup in an hour, however, it won't do you
> a hoot in Hell if you don't have some idea as to what
> program/interface commands you want to access and why.  One is still
> faced with the task of learning application software.  Just a flea in
> your ear, I came to realize the true value of Speakup only recently
> when I started wanting to read about the OS and to understand what the
> heck was going on with it.  This interest came after, way after I had
> alreadly learned Emacs and Emacspeak.
>
> From reading the newbie's posts, it sounds to me as if the need is for
> application software rather than for training in the OS.  That may
> come in time, which is why I'm for installing both programs; Emacspeak
> and Speakup.  If I were going to give advice, or an opinion based on
> the newbie's post, I'd vote for installing Emacspeak first, then move
> on to Speakup and learn about the OS.
>
> Has that clarified anything ladies?  Please let's not fight here, it's
> so detros.  And besides, it confuses the people who are asking our
> advice.
>
> Ann P.
>
> --
> Ann K. Parsons
> email:  akp@eznet.net ICQ Number:  33006854
> WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
> "All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."
JRRT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Yvonne Smith]

Ann Parsons writes:
 > Hi all,
 > 
 > I dunnow why I'm in this argument.  Hmmmm, yes, maybe I do.  I think
 > it's because I like and use both Emacspeak and Speakup simultaneously
 > all day everyday.    Let me see if I can explain Yvonne's position,
 > and she can correct me if I'm wrong.
 > 
 > If you start with Emacspeak, as I did, you are starting from the same
 > position as a noncomputer user or a user who's experience has been
 > limited.  Yes, the learning curve is steep, and you must learn Emacs
 > while learning Emacspeak.  this is no different from the Windows user
 > who wants to learn Windows, Window-eyes and MSWord at the same time.
 > The position is really the same.  The task here in the main is to
 > learn the editor, not to learn about the OS.  This is good if you want
 > to be proficient in an editor and you have need of one that will
 > accept add-on programs and use the same types of commands for all
 > these add-ons, much as does learning all the Windows stuff carry over
 > from appl to app.  Emacs is a fantastic editor, my personal opinion.
 > Once learned, it is powerful and versatile and its desktop is handy
 > and so on. For the new Linux user who has an immediate need for
 > programs rather than knowledge of the OS, Emacspeak is perhaps the
 > best route to go.  Is this what you mean, Yvonne? 
 > 
If you can believe this, anne, I didn't mean anything really that
deep. The new user said what I interpreted as them wanting to spend most
of their computing time in emacs. I did, what I now realise was
incredibly stupid and just made an idle comment that if one was going to
spend most of ones time in emacs, it might be a good idea to *look* at
emacspeak rather than speakup. I intend to do what you're doing now when
I settle down a bit and it's easier to use my speech synthesiser and use
both. Since I'm using viavoice, I'm not going to run into any conflicts
between apps, since speakup can use the external synthe all by itself.

I'm really sorry. I honestly didn't mean to start all this. Sure as hell
I'll be a lot more careful before offering advice in the future.

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi Yvonne,

<smile>  Don't worry about it.  Life's too short!  We all have to bite
our tongue's every once in a while.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Toby Fisher]

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Yvonne Smith wrote:

> Anna Schneider writes:
>  >
>  > First, my understanding is that while Linux comes with some programs under
>  > it, many other have to be downloaded off the web.  Is this correct?
>
> Umm, I think you'll find that linux is the same as most operating
> systems in that regard. In fact, most linux distributions, by default,
> come with more software than, say, windows or macOS. But no matter how
> much junk your distribution comes with, you'll probably have to download
> some software from other places eventually, yes.

It should also be added that, unlike a lot of operating systems (most
notably Microsoft Windows),, not only is the software free to download and
use, but if you are into programming, you can even make alterations,
subject to credit being given where it's due, of course.

>  >
>  > 1.  Does any virus protection exist for Linux and if so, what programs
>  > would people recommend and how can I get them?
>  >
> The easy answer is, there are no linux viruses, and don't worry about
> it. The slightly more complicated answer goes something like, There are
> *some*  viruses for linux in theory, and I think there have been some
>  trojan horse programs where people have downloaded a destructive
> program rather than the software they meant to download, but I've been
> using linux for years now, and it's never happened to me. I don't think
> you need to worry. Certainly none of the outlook viruses and soforth'll
> get in under linux.

Actually, the first Linux virus, ell it as a worm, was introduced because
players of Quake needed in earlier days to be logged in as root, and the
game's protocol was used.  Also, there have been several worms related to
such things as the telnet server, which was patched last Summer by many of
the distributions, and this was not confined to Linux.  However, if you
ensure that non-essential servers are closed down either by disabling the
start-up scripts or through the use of inetd.conf, you should be ok.
n.b. Most distributions when installed have such servers as telnet and ftp
running by default.

<snip>

>  > 3.  Are there ways to open Word and Excel programs in Linux?
>  >
> Umm, that kind of depends what you mean. If someone sends you a word
> document, there are a couple of programs to turn it into text or
> html. Catdoc, antiword and wordview are the three that spring to mind
> off the top of my head.

It should also be noted that if you don't care about formatting and other
frilly bits, and just want to know what it said cos someone sent you a
memo or something in Word, then the following should work, which is what I
use:

cat yourfile.doc | strings | less

Strings, btw, just pulls all ascii characters out of its input.
Also, the headers and footers will appear at the bottom of the output.
Btw, this does not work directly from the attachments menu of Pine, you
have to save the document first.

>  > 4.  Will I have to be compliling things before I use them and does Linux
>  > usually come with these complers or do I have to go find them too?
>  >
> You might have to compile software, depending on what you're looking
> for. A standard distribution usually has all that stuff in it. Using
> compiling a program consists of nothing more complicated that something
> like typing configure make make install. Unless something really weird
> happens, compiling most software is easy. there's usually a readme file
> in the archive for the program that tells you what to do to install it.

The only thing to add here is that some software may complain if it is not
compiled/installed as root.

>  > 5.  What is the most recent version of Lynx?  Is it considered to be
>  > equivalent to Internet Explorer 4.0 or better?   This matters quite a bit
>  > actually.  If I need another web browser in addition to Lynx, do any exist
>  > for Linux?
>  >
> Umm web browsers under linux for console users are a bit problematic. I
> don't think there's anything we can use under linux that I'd consider
> equivalent to ie4 or above. The things that are impossible for us under
> linux that you're likely to encounter are javascriptand activex.

Hmmm, if this is the case, why is there, in the latest release version of
Lynx, a config entry for javascript support?  I'm sure I've been told that
the Lynx development team are going to see if they can make use of the
libjs engine.  In addition, there is a piece of software called w3m, which
while not technically a web browser will display frames if you urgently
need it, for example to get some facilities out of a web site which
doesn't have a non-frames version.  It also has support for ssl and can,
for your sighted friends, display inline graphics I believe.
Also, I don't know of the situation over there, but over here the
distributions cannot contain encription software due to U.S. export
regulations, so it is possible that you may find your version of lynx does
not support the https protocol and ssl transactions, needed for
communication with secure sites, such as those used for online shopping.
The only real way to check is to try it.


Hope this hasn't confused anyone, bbut I'm just catching up and felt these
things needed some clarification.

Cheers.
-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Shaun Oliver]

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:
SNIP
>
> Hmmm, if this is the case, why is there, in the latest release version of
> Lynx, a config entry for javascript support?  I'm sure I've been told that
> the Lynx development team are going to see if they can make use of the
> libjs engine.  In addition, there is a piece of software called w3m, which
> while not technically a web browser will display frames if you urgently
> need it, for example to get some facilities out of a web site which
> doesn't have a non-frames version.  It also has support for ssl and can,
> for your sighted friends, display inline graphics I believe.
> Also, I don't know of the situation over there, but over here the
> distributions cannot contain encription software due to U.S. export
> regulations, so it is possible that you may find your version of lynx does
> not support the https protocol and ssl transactions, needed for
> communication with secure sites, such as those used for online shopping.
> The only real way to check is to try it.
>
>
>

With reference to the configure script entry for java I don't think
that's supported just yet.
That's not to say that it won't be at a later date,
However, I belive one can download the source for openssl and compile it.
this is what I did for the release of lynx that I have on my system.
hth

Shaun Oliver

Marriage is a three ring circus:
engagement ring, wedding ring, and suffering.
                -- Roger Price

Email: shauno@goanna.net.au
Icq: 76958435

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Shaun Oliver wrote:

> However, I belive one can download the source for openssl and compile it.
> this is what I did for the release of lynx that I have on my system.

Yes indeed, but this requires download, patching and recompilation of the
entire Lynx source code, not necessarily for the faint-hearted.  Having
said that, it ma y be possible to get rpm packages for an ssl-ready
version of Lynx, since I run Slackware and know from work-related stuff
how incompatible it can be with Redhat, I haven't tried even though this
system does come with the rpm program.

Cheers.
-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

I did an apt-get and now have lynx-ssl.  I hope I have everything
required, seem to.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			ICQ Number:  33006854
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Questions about programs under Linux.

[Janina Sajka]

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:
> > Also, I don't know of the situation over there, but over here the
> > distributions cannot contain encription software due to U.S. export
> > regulations, so it is possible that you may find your version of lynx does
> > not support the https protocol and ssl transactions, needed for
> > communication with secure sites, such as those used for online shopping.

This has not been true for at least two years now. Those restrictions were 
lifted by the Clinton Administration.

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Steve Holmes]

Hey, does anyone have an HTML version or perhaps an accessible version
of the original PDF version of this PHP book?  I went to the link
listed below and it is no longer valid! I gues that's what ya get when
you procrastinate about lookin' these things up.

I don't know how big the thing is, I would think the HTML version
would be quite a bit smaller than that damned bloated PDF would be:).
If decent size, go ahead and e-mail it to me at 
steve@holmesgrown.com
If it is too big, no matter what, then let me know off list and we can
parhaps work something else out.

Thanks for any help.

On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 01:22:12PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> 
> Good Afternoon from Apress!
> 
> We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> 
> Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Hollie
> 
> Hollie Fischer
> Apress Public Relations Assistant
> 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> Berkeley CA 94710
> phone 510.549.5938
> fax 510.549.5939
> www.apress.com
> Visit our online catalog today!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dclug mailing list
> dclug@tux.org
> http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: Free Book About PHP Available

[Edward L. Barnes]

Hi there Steve, I did some quick searching and I found the original file 
which I downloaded just after the original message was sent to speakup, 
what I've got is the zipped up pdf, if that'll do you in the event 
somebody hasn't already written to you directly offering you something 
more accessible, html, ascii, or whatever,. The file I have over here is 
4.96 mb in size, write to me privately at ebarnes@enigma2.cjb.net if 
you'd like me to try sending it or if you'd like to work out some sort 
of alternate arrangement. Ed
On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:

> Hey, does anyone have an HTML version or perhaps an accessible version
> of the original PDF version of this PHP book?  I went to the link
> listed below and it is no longer valid! I gues that's what ya get when
> you procrastinate about lookin' these things up.
> 
> I don't know how big the thing is, I would think the HTML version
> would be quite a bit smaller than that damned bloated PDF would be:).
> If decent size, go ahead and e-mail it to me at 
> steve@holmesgrown.com
> If it is too big, no matter what, then let me know off list and we can
> parhaps work something else out.
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 01:22:12PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Hollie Fischer <hollie_fischer@apress.com>
> > 
> > Good Afternoon from Apress!
> > 
> > We have made available for free download "A Programmer's Introduction to PHP
> > 4.0"  by Jason Gilmore. To download a copy of the book for FREE, please
> > visit www.apress.com/books/electronic/1893115852/.
> > 
> > Forward this email to anyone in your user group, circle of friends, or place
> > of business who would find a free copy of this book useful and, feel free to
> > pass along your thoughts on free downloads of Apress books.
> > 
> > Kind Regards,
> > Hollie
> > 
> > Hollie Fischer
> > Apress Public Relations Assistant
> > 901 Grayson Street Suite 204
> > Berkeley CA 94710
> > phone 510.549.5938
> > fax 510.549.5939
> > www.apress.com
> > Visit our online catalog today!
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > dclug mailing list
> > dclug@tux.org
> > http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/dclug
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
>