Your opinions?

Your opinions?

[Jes and guide dog Harley]

Hi all.
I'm just exercising my brain power in regards to Linux and have noticed something quite odd about where its going. I would like
you all to read my thoughts with care, and if I am wrong or have messed up somewhere please feel free to correct me and by the
way, there's a question at the end of this post, but you'll have to read my thoughts before you can get to my question in order to
properly answer it.
I have noticed that Linux seems to be taking on the trend of the ever hated Microsoft Windows. In the early nineties, Windows 3.1
was released, and you had dos underneath it controling the hardware of the computer. When 95 and 98 and such came out, dos was
scrapt and now there is no real dos mode any more, so in esence there's no real command line interface. I realize Linux is open
source and all, however with the advent of Gnome (and please correct me if I am wrong at any point on this), I feel that Linux is
headed in somewhat of the same fassion. My only reason for doubting myself would be to think that Linux started this trend first,
then microsloth picked it up on the way. My question is. Will text consoles, seeing that the applications that are written for
them like lynx and so fourth tend to be very far behind the times, be a consistant option for us as blind users in the Linux
world?

I would love to hear what you all think.
Sincerely:
Jes

Re: Your opinions?

[Geoff Shang]

Hi:

I don't think we really have much to worry about.  Yes, console-mode aps do
tend to lag a little, particularly in some areas (can anyone say audio
editing?), but a lot of people who write applications prefer to use the
text console and, as long as that continues to be the case, applications
will continue to be written for it.  The big difference between the
DOS/Windows comparison and the console/X comparison under Linux, is the
fact that in LInux, it really is just a matter of a different interface.
With windows, DOS had fairly severe limits which were difficult to
overcome.  It also had no fascility for multitasking (many would say that
Windows doesn't either, but it at least looks as if it does).  It's also
not easy to use the same or similar code for both.  In Linux, the
underlying code can be the same, you just slap a new interface on it.
People who do this often write their functionality into libs, which makes
it completely UI independent.

I think the main problem with web browsers in particular is that most of
them have their origins bak in the days when the web was simple and
client-side processing wasn't even thought of.  I think if anyone was to
write a text-mode web browser these days, they'd do it in such a way that
it would incorporate a document object model and allow for client-side
applications such as scripting and applets.  The UI is more an indicator of
the age of some of these aps than anything else.  I first saw lynx in 1994
and it was version 2.3 then.  And I know PIne was at 3.89 in 1994, so it's
not exactly new either.

Geoff.

Re: Your opinions?

[Janina Sajka]

I agree with Geoff. In fact, not only do I think console apps won't go
away, I'm quite sure that the competition from the northwest corner of
the U.S. is going to help make the command line sexy again in its next
major release, currently named Longhorn (or was that Leghorn?)! Yes, my
friends, I have it on very good authority that Microsoft is "bringing
back the command line." I put that in quotes because it is a quotation,
and because it's a strange statement--as if CLI ever really went away.
But then Microsoft people tend to see the universe only in their own
terms.

I'll even go one better. It's going to become easier to create different
interfaces to the same underlying application. Much of the
standardization activity currently underway in groups like FSG and the
W3C is about facilitating middle layers to make it easier to repurpose
interfaces for different devices. We can already see some of the early
efforts in this direction with apps like charva and the textual
interface to GNOME whose name I'm forgetting at the moment.

Geoff Shang writes:
> From: Geoff Shang <gshang@pacific.net.au>
> 
> Hi:
> 
> I don't think we really have much to worry about.  Yes, console-mode aps do
> tend to lag a little, particularly in some areas (can anyone say audio
> editing?), but a lot of people who write applications prefer to use the
> text console and, as long as that continues to be the case, applications
> will continue to be written for it.  The big difference between the
> DOS/Windows comparison and the console/X comparison under Linux, is the
> fact that in LInux, it really is just a matter of a different interface.
> With windows, DOS had fairly severe limits which were difficult to
> overcome.  It also had no fascility for multitasking (many would say that
> Windows doesn't either, but it at least looks as if it does).  It's also
> not easy to use the same or similar code for both.  In Linux, the
> underlying code can be the same, you just slap a new interface on it.
> People who do this often write their functionality into libs, which makes
> it completely UI independent.
> 
> I think the main problem with web browsers in particular is that most of
> them have their origins bak in the days when the web was simple and
> client-side processing wasn't even thought of.  I think if anyone was to
> write a text-mode web browser these days, they'd do it in such a way that
> it would incorporate a document object model and allow for client-side
> applications such as scripting and applets.  The UI is more an indicator of
> the age of some of these aps than anything else.  I first saw lynx in 1994
> and it was version 2.3 then.  And I know PIne was at 3.89 in 1994, so it's
> not exactly new either.
> 
> Geoff.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

Re: Your opinions?

[Alex Snow]

one thing I find cool about *nix os's is their command structure 
hasn't changed in the 30 or so years it's been around. I recently 
obtained v1 unix for the pdp11 and 2.79bsd also for the pdp11, fired 
up a pdp11 emulator and found that I could use these unices with not 
many differences. the only major difference in commands I saw was in 
v1 unix the command to change directories is chdir not cd.
On Sun, Nov 
30, 2003 at 06:14:40AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> I agree with Geoff. In fact, not only do I think console apps won't go
> away, I'm quite sure that the competition from the northwest corner of
> the U.S. is going to help make the command line sexy again in its next
> major release, currently named Longhorn (or was that Leghorn?)! Yes, my
> friends, I have it on very good authority that Microsoft is "bringing
> back the command line." I put that in quotes because it is a quotation,
> and because it's a strange statement--as if CLI ever really went away.
> But then Microsoft people tend to see the universe only in their own
> terms.
> 
> I'll even go one better. It's going to become easier to create different
> interfaces to the same underlying application. Much of the
> standardization activity currently underway in groups like FSG and the
> W3C is about facilitating middle layers to make it easier to repurpose
> interfaces for different devices. We can already see some of the early
> efforts in this direction with apps like charva and the textual
> interface to GNOME whose name I'm forgetting at the moment.
> 
> Geoff Shang writes:
> > From: Geoff Shang <gshang@pacific.net.au>
> > 
> > Hi:
> > 
> > I don't think we really have much to worry about.  Yes, console-mode aps do
> > tend to lag a little, particularly in some areas (can anyone say audio
> > editing?), but a lot of people who write applications prefer to use the
> > text console and, as long as that continues to be the case, applications
> > will continue to be written for it.  The big difference between the
> > DOS/Windows comparison and the console/X comparison under Linux, is the
> > fact that in LInux, it really is just a matter of a different interface.
> > With windows, DOS had fairly severe limits which were difficult to
> > overcome.  It also had no fascility for multitasking (many would say that
> > Windows doesn't either, but it at least looks as if it does).  It's also
> > not easy to use the same or similar code for both.  In Linux, the
> > underlying code can be the same, you just slap a new interface on it.
> > People who do this often write their functionality into libs, which makes
> > it completely UI independent.
> > 
> > I think the main problem with web browsers in particular is that most of
> > them have their origins bak in the days when the web was simple and
> > client-side processing wasn't even thought of.  I think if anyone was to
> > write a text-mode web browser these days, they'd do it in such a way that
> > it would incorporate a document object model and allow for client-side
> > applications such as scripting and applets.  The UI is more an indicator of
> > the age of some of these aps than anything else.  I first saw lynx in 1994
> > and it was version 2.3 then.  And I know PIne was at 3.89 in 1994, so it's
> > not exactly new either.
> > 
> > Geoff.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 	
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net		
> Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://accessibility.freestandards.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Your opinions?

[David Poehlman]

so, ui auomation is going to save us all?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: Your opinions?


I agree with Geoff. In fact, not only do I think console apps won't go
away, I'm quite sure that the competition from the northwest corner of
the U.S. is going to help make the command line sexy again in its next
major release, currently named Longhorn (or was that Leghorn?)! Yes, my
friends, I have it on very good authority that Microsoft is "bringing
back the command line." I put that in quotes because it is a quotation,
and because it's a strange statement--as if CLI ever really went away.
But then Microsoft people tend to see the universe only in their own
terms.

I'll even go one better. It's going to become easier to create different
interfaces to the same underlying application. Much of the
standardization activity currently underway in groups like FSG and the
W3C is about facilitating middle layers to make it easier to repurpose
interfaces for different devices. We can already see some of the early
efforts in this direction with apps like charva and the textual
interface to GNOME whose name I'm forgetting at the moment.

Geoff Shang writes:
> From: Geoff Shang <gshang@pacific.net.au>
>
> Hi:
>
> I don't think we really have much to worry about.  Yes, console-mode aps
do
> tend to lag a little, particularly in some areas (can anyone say audio
> editing?), but a lot of people who write applications prefer to use the
> text console and, as long as that continues to be the case, applications
> will continue to be written for it.  The big difference between the
> DOS/Windows comparison and the console/X comparison under Linux, is the
> fact that in LInux, it really is just a matter of a different interface.
> With windows, DOS had fairly severe limits which were difficult to
> overcome.  It also had no fascility for multitasking (many would say that
> Windows doesn't either, but it at least looks as if it does).  It's also
> not easy to use the same or similar code for both.  In Linux, the
> underlying code can be the same, you just slap a new interface on it.
> People who do this often write their functionality into libs, which makes
> it completely UI independent.
>
> I think the main problem with web browsers in particular is that most of
> them have their origins bak in the days when the web was simple and
> client-side processing wasn't even thought of.  I think if anyone was to
> write a text-mode web browser these days, they'd do it in such a way that
> it would incorporate a document object model and allow for client-side
> applications such as scripting and applets.  The UI is more an indicator
of
> the age of some of these aps than anything else.  I first saw lynx in 1994
> and it was version 2.3 then.  And I know PIne was at 3.89 in 1994, so it's
> not exactly new either.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net
Phone: (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://accessibility.freestandards.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Your opinions?

[Alex Snow]

well the unix gui is nothing new. x has been around forever...
On Sun, 
Nov 30, 2003 at 01:22:41AM -0500, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:
> Hi all.
> I'm just exercising my brain power in regards to Linux and have noticed something quite odd about where its going. I would like
> you all to read my thoughts with care, and if I am wrong or have messed up somewhere please feel free to correct me and by the
> way, there's a question at the end of this post, but you'll have to read my thoughts before you can get to my question in order to
> properly answer it.
> I have noticed that Linux seems to be taking on the trend of the ever hated Microsoft Windows. In the early nineties, Windows 3.1
> was released, and you had dos underneath it controling the hardware of the computer. When 95 and 98 and such came out, dos was
> scrapt and now there is no real dos mode any more, so in esence there's no real command line interface. I realize Linux is open
> source and all, however with the advent of Gnome (and please correct me if I am wrong at any point on this), I feel that Linux is
> headed in somewhat of the same fassion. My only reason for doubting myself would be to think that Linux started this trend first,
> then microsloth picked it up on the way. My question is. Will text consoles, seeing that the applications that are written for
> them like lynx and so fourth tend to be very far behind the times, be a consistant option for us as blind users in the Linux
> world?
> 
> I would love to hear what you all think.
> Sincerely:
> Jes
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Your opinions?

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.  Gnome is getting a lot of notice because of the over marketing of
Gnopernicus.  Gnome is just 1 desktop environment.  Since a lot of GUI
apps just are different interfaces to the same program and these
programs have a text interface, the text console isn't likely to
go away any time soon.
Part of the reason Lynx lags behind is it's developers still want it to
be able to run on everything.  That includes DOS.  Lynx has the begining
hooks for java script, but I don't believe there is a java scrip lib
available for DOS.  This means they aren't likely to have java script
support any time soon.  If someone gets java script working on Linux
that is cool, but the lynx developers won't except it because it would
be Linux specific.
Before anyone flames me, my opinion about lynx is from reading the lynx
development list for a few months.  My view about Gnopernicus is the
result of trying to use it for the last 6 months.

         Kenny
	 
On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 01:22:41AM -0500, Jes and guide dog Harley wrote:
> Hi all.
> I'm just exercising my brain power in regards to Linux and have noticed something quite odd about where its going. I would like
> you all to read my thoughts with care, and if I am wrong or have messed up somewhere please feel free to correct me and by the
> way, there's a question at the end of this post, but you'll have to read my thoughts before you can get to my question in order to
> properly answer it.
> I have noticed that Linux seems to be taking on the trend of the ever hated Microsoft Windows. In the early nineties, Windows 3.1
> was released, and you had dos underneath it controling the hardware of the computer. When 95 and 98 and such came out, dos was
> scrapt and now there is no real dos mode any more, so in esence there's no real command line interface. I realize Linux is open
> source and all, however with the advent of Gnome (and please correct me if I am wrong at any point on this), I feel that Linux is
> headed in somewhat of the same fassion. My only reason for doubting myself would be to think that Linux started this trend first,
> then microsloth picked it up on the way. My question is. Will text consoles, seeing that the applications that are written for
> them like lynx and so fourth tend to be very far behind the times, be a consistant option for us as blind users in the Linux
> world?
> 
> I would love to hear what you all think.
> Sincerely:
> Jes
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Your opinions?

[Charles Crawford]

there is  an applickation for Windows XP and so on called DOSBOX which 
supposedly emulates DOS very well.

	On the Linux side, I share your concern about GUI access since I 
have been looking for a CD ripper and have not seen any text based ones 
yet that do what I want.   I am hopeful that one will be found.

	The larger issue is whether Linux GUI becomes more accessible than 
Wiindows and if so, those of us who like command lines will still be 
ticked but at least we will have use of the X applications.



-- 
-- Charlie Crawford

Re: Your opinions?

[Alex Snow]

have you tried cdparanoia?
On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 12:27:22PM -0500, 
Charles Crawford wrote:
> there is  an applickation for Windows XP and so on called DOSBOX which 
> supposedly emulates DOS very well.
> 
> 	On the Linux side, I share your concern about GUI access since I 
> have been looking for a CD ripper and have not seen any text based ones 
> yet that do what I want.   I am hopeful that one will be found.
> 
> 	The larger issue is whether Linux GUI becomes more accessible than 
> Wiindows and if so, those of us who like command lines will still be 
> ticked but at least we will have use of the X applications.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -- Charlie Crawford
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Cdparanoia

[Patricia Logan]

Hi,Alex,

     Since the subject of  cdparanoia  has come up, have you been 
able to rip an entire disk at once, burn a CD from the result and 
been able to forward and backtrack between the different tracks?  
The only way I've been able to do this, burning with  cdrecord  
is to rip each track separately and then rename it since it 
always names what is ripped as cdda.wav  My life would be so much 
easier if I could save myself all this time and effort.  I've 
tried different options in  cdparanoia and in  cdrecord  to no 
avail. 

     Pat Logan

Re: Cdparanoia

[Toby Fisher]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Patricia Logan wrote:

> Hi,Alex,
> 
>      Since the subject of  cdparanoia  has come up, have you been 
> able to rip an entire disk at once, burn a CD from the result and 
> been able to forward and backtrack between the different tracks?  
> The only way I've been able to do this, burning with  cdrecord  
> is to rip each track separately and then rename it since it 
> always names what is ripped as cdda.wav  My life would be so much 
> easier if I could save myself all this time and effort.  I've 
> tried different options in  cdparanoia and in  cdrecord  to no 
> avail. 

Pat,

If you take a look at the cdrecord man page, there is an example which 
rtells you, in 2 easy steps, how to make a copy of an audio cd using 
cdrecord.  I've used it and it seems to work fine.
It uses cdda2wav instead of cdparanoia, which is handy because it'll get 
the cddb info if it cannot be gained from the disk itself.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@tjfisher.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
 

Re: Cdparanoia

[Alex Snow]

I've only ripped single tracks with cdparanoia and it seemed to work 
fine. I havent tried ripping entire disks with it but it should devide 
each track into it's own wav file.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 01:42:27PM 
-0500, Patricia Logan wrote:
> Hi,Alex,
> 
>      Since the subject of  cdparanoia  has come up, have you been 
> able to rip an entire disk at once, burn a CD from the result and 
> been able to forward and backtrack between the different tracks?  
> The only way I've been able to do this, burning with  cdrecord  
> is to rip each track separately and then rename it since it 
> always names what is ripped as cdda.wav  My life would be so much 
> easier if I could save myself all this time and effort.  I've 
> tried different options in  cdparanoia and in  cdrecord  to no 
> avail. 
> 
>      Pat Logan
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be paid
back.

Re: Cdparanoia

[Charles Crawford]

Does anyone know if there is a Linux version of Poweramp and Music 
converter?  Its te e  Wdws tat I fdreasab accessbe

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, 
Patricia Logan wrote:

> Hi,Alex,
> 
>      Since the subject of  cdparanoia  has come up, have you been 
> able to rip an entire disk at once, burn a CD from the result and 
> been able to forward and backtrack between the different tracks?  
> The only way I've been able to do this, burning with  cdrecord  
> is to rip each track separately and then rename it since it 
> always names what is ripped as cdda.wav  My life would be so much 
> easier if I could save myself all this time and effort.  I've 
> tried different options in  cdparanoia and in  cdrecord  to no 
> avail. 
> 
>      Pat Logan
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
-- Charlie Crawford

Re: Your opinions?

[Charles Crawford]

Hi Alex,

	yes I have tried it and there is no command line switch to have 
it check freedb for the song titles and artist and all of that.  So the 
output is all track01 and so forth.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Alex Snow wrote:

> have you tried cdparanoia?
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 12:27:22PM -0500, 
> Charles Crawford wrote:
> > there is  an applickation for Windows XP and so on called DOSBOX which 
> > supposedly emulates DOS very well.
> > 
> > 	On the Linux side, I share your concern about GUI access since I 
> > have been looking for a CD ripper and have not seen any text based ones 
> > yet that do what I want.   I am hopeful that one will be found.
> > 
> > 	The larger issue is whether Linux GUI becomes more accessible than 
> > Wiindows and if so, those of us who like command lines will still be 
> > ticked but at least we will have use of the X applications.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > -- Charlie Crawford
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 

-- 
-- Charlie Crawford

Re: Your opinions?

[Toby Fisher]

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Charles Crawford wrote:

> 	On the Linux side, I share your concern about GUI access since I 
> have been looking for a CD ripper and have not seen any text based ones 
> yet that do what I want.   I am hopeful that one will be found.

What is it that you want?

Several have been written in Perl which interface to the variouss 
compression libs, and if they don't quite do what you want, well there's 
always the option to either write your own or modify one that already 
exists.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@tjfisher.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
 

CD ripping wasRe: Your opinions?

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.  I tried to send this earlier but had problems.  See if you can find
a package called abcde.  I use to rip a Cd to ogg files.  You can also
create mp3 files if you want.  
I just put in the CD type abcde and I end up with an ogg file per track
with all the info from the cd database.

         Kenny

On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 12:27:22PM -0500, Charles Crawford wrote:
> there is  an applickation for Windows XP and so on called DOSBOX which 
> supposedly emulates DOS very well.
> 
> 	On the Linux side, I share your concern about GUI access since I 
> have been looking for a CD ripper and have not seen any text based ones 
> yet that do what I want.   I am hopeful that one will be found.
> 
> 	The larger issue is whether Linux GUI becomes more accessible than 
> Wiindows and if so, those of us who like command lines will still be 
> ticked but at least we will have use of the X applications.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -- Charlie Crawford
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: CD ripping wasRe: Your opinions?

[Charles Crawford]

Thanks and I'll look for it.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Kenny Hitt wrote:

> Hi.  I tried to send this earlier but had problems.  See if you can find
> a package called abcde.  I use to rip a Cd to ogg files.  You can also
> create mp3 files if you want.  
> I just put in the CD type abcde and I end up with an ogg file per track
> with all the info from the cd database.
> 
>          Kenny
> 
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 12:27:22PM -0500, Charles Crawford wrote:
> > there is  an applickation for Windows XP and so on called DOSBOX which 
> > supposedly emulates DOS very well.
> > 
> > 	On the Linux side, I share your concern about GUI access since I 
> > have been looking for a CD ripper and have not seen any text based ones 
> > yet that do what I want.   I am hopeful that one will be found.
> > 
> > 	The larger issue is whether Linux GUI becomes more accessible than 
> > Wiindows and if so, those of us who like command lines will still be 
> > ticked but at least we will have use of the X applications.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > -- Charlie Crawford
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 

-- 
-- Charlie Crawford

Re: CD ripping wasRe: Your opinions?

[Charles Crawford]

It took a couple of hours to figure it out and get the dependencies but 
it worked!  Thanks man!!!

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Kenny Hitt wrote:

> Hi.  I tried to send this earlier but had problems.  See if you can find
> a package called abcde.  I use to rip a Cd to ogg files.  You can also
> create mp3 files if you want.  
> I just put in the CD type abcde and I end up with an ogg file per track
> with all the info from the cd database.
> 
>          Kenny
> 
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2003 at 12:27:22PM -0500, Charles Crawford wrote:
> > there is  an applickation for Windows XP and so on called DOSBOX which 
> > supposedly emulates DOS very well.
> > 
> > 	On the Linux side, I share your concern about GUI access since I 
> > have been looking for a CD ripper and have not seen any text based ones 
> > yet that do what I want.   I am hopeful that one will be found.
> > 
> > 	The larger issue is whether Linux GUI becomes more accessible than 
> > Wiindows and if so, those of us who like command lines will still be 
> > ticked but at least we will have use of the X applications.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > -- Charlie Crawford
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
-- Charlie Crawford

Re: Your opinions?

[Ann Parsons]

Hi all,

Charlie, you tried abcde?  It's very good.

Ann P.

-- 
			Ann K. Parsons  
email:  akp@eznet.net 			
WEB SITE:  http://home.eznet.net/~akp
"All that is gold does not glitter.  
Not all those who wander are lost."  JRRT

Re: Your opinions?

[Jacob Schmude]

Hi
Well, the command line isn't going anywhere anytime soon, that's not a 
concern. Unix and X have always been separated, X is simply another UI, and 
it's been that way since before linux was ever started. However, my 
concerns follow a similar path. Most of the apps sighted linux users are... 
gues what, X-based? With the advent of gnopernicus, some gnome2-based 
applications are accessible, but most X apps aren't gnome2-based. In 
particular, KDE is a much more popular desktop environment, and access to 
that for us is a big fat zero right now. My concern is that, when linux 
takes off on the desktop as it surely will in the next few years, we'll be 
left out of the loop, since commercial software vendors aren't going to be 
concentrating on the command-line market. I know what some of you will say: 
Go get an open source solution. But sometimes there just isn't an OS 
solution that'll do the trick (OCR, anyone?). I tend to agree with other 
listers that say we need a new web browser from the ground up, since lynx 
the cat is very old and wasn't designed for many of the modern web 
elements. Links the chain is a bit better, but it still isn't up there with 
the graphical browsers. There's one bright spot in this though... better 
the unix console than the scurge of windblows.

P.S. Did someone say there's a text-based interface to gnome? Where do you 
get that, I'd like to try it out.

At 01:22 11/30/2003, you wrote:
>Hi all.
>I'm just exercising my brain power in regards to Linux and have noticed 
>something quite odd about where its going. I would like
>you all to read my thoughts with care, and if I am wrong or have messed up 
>somewhere please feel free to correct me and by the
>way, there's a question at the end of this post, but you'll have to read 
>my thoughts before you can get to my question in order to
>properly answer it.
>I have noticed that Linux seems to be taking on the trend of the ever 
>hated Microsoft Windows. In the early nineties, Windows 3.1
>was released, and you had dos underneath it controling the hardware of the 
>computer. When 95 and 98 and such came out, dos was
>scrapt and now there is no real dos mode any more, so in esence there's no 
>real command line interface. I realize Linux is open
>source and all, however with the advent of Gnome (and please correct me if 
>I am wrong at any point on this), I feel that Linux is
>headed in somewhat of the same fassion.

Re: Your opinions?

[Krister Ekstrom]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi Jacob,

On 30 Nov 2003 20:59:30  (my local time 1 dec 2003 02:59:30), you
typed::
JS> My concern is that, when linux
JS> takes off on the desktop as it surely will in the next few years, we'll be
JS> left out of the loop, since commercial software vendors aren't going to be
JS> concentrating on the command-line market.

That, imo depends on *us*. If we want to be left out of the loop, then
we will be left out, but if we want to go with the flow, we won't be
left out. As Janina said, there are acdcessibility standards being
developed and i also believe in the power of the open-source system.
(The guis are part of the open-source, aren't they?) I think both
interfaces have their advantages, as i said in an erlier message and i
believe as i also said that the X interfaces has potential to blow
Windows away accessibility wise.
- --
/Krister
crisekstrom@bredband.net
 Get pgp keys here: mailto:crisekstrom@bredband.net?subject=get_pgp_keys
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-nr2 (Windows XP)

iD8DBQE/yxNhODlJeoMTOQsRA2qPAKCK4kkX/V36GrRzqFeVtKQOKuFrOQCcCpJW
F28etP8JChJ2kxVD9mOIKmU=
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Re: Your opinions?

[Sean McMahon]

Just a minor correction in your post, Windows uses dos until Win2000.  Even
Winxp has some command line support.  Inanswer to your question the
direction of linux depends on users and developers like us.  This is a free
system we must shape not follow its trends.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jes and guide dog Harley" <jesman598@triad.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 11:22 PM
Subject: Your opinions?


> Hi all.
> I'm just exercising my brain power in regards to Linux and have noticed
something quite odd about where its going. I would like
> you all to read my thoughts with care, and if I am wrong or have messed up
somewhere please feel free to correct me and by the
> way, there's a question at the end of this post, but you'll have to read
my thoughts before you can get to my question in order to
> properly answer it.
> I have noticed that Linux seems to be taking on the trend of the ever
hated Microsoft Windows. In the early nineties, Windows 3.1
> was released, and you had dos underneath it controling the hardware of the
computer. When 95 and 98 and such came out, dos was
> scrapt and now there is no real dos mode any more, so in esence there's no
real command line interface. I realize Linux is open
> source and all, however with the advent of Gnome (and please correct me if
I am wrong at any point on this), I feel that Linux is
> headed in somewhat of the same fassion. My only reason for doubting myself
would be to think that Linux started this trend first,
> then microsloth picked it up on the way. My question is. Will text
consoles, seeing that the applications that are written for
> them like lynx and so fourth tend to be very far behind the times, be a
consistant option for us as blind users in the Linux
> world?
>
> I would love to hear what you all think.
> Sincerely:
> Jes
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup