* moving from amd to p3? @ Littlefield, Tyler ` Doug Sutherland 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Littlefield, Tyler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Hello list, I've got an AMD system, that I would like to do my install with. When I try to move the harddrive to my penteum 3 system, things sorta... crash. Is there a way to do this? I'm trying to install debian, and my p3 system doesn't have a working CD drive. Thanks, ~~TheCreator~~ [My programs don't have bugs; just randomly added features] msn: compgeek13@gmail.com aim: st8amnd2005 skype: st8amnd127 vertigo head coder web: tysdomain.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? moving from amd to p3? Littlefield, Tyler @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Scott Berry 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. If you are installing on amd system then moving to p3 system, and the kernel is crashing, then you need to find a way to boot a more generic kernel on the target system. If there is no CD the hopefully there is floppy drive. Prepare or find a generic kernel for the floppy disk, and when booting, from the boot prompt, you'll need to do something like: generic-kernel-name root=/dev/hda1 noinitrd Where generic-kernel-name is the name of the kernel on boot disk and root points to the root filesystem partition on the target machine. Basically you want to boot the kernel on the floppy but boot it using the root filesystem on the target hard drive. Once the system is booted, compile a new kernel on the p3 and update the bootloader accordingly to refer to the new kernel. -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* RE: moving from amd to p3? ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Scott Berry ` Littlefield, Tyler ` Doug Sutherland 0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Scott Berry @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.' Another question here Doug. What if you don't know how to compile a kernel are there any good tutorials? I use Fedora but at least a general tutorial would help to begin. Scott -----Original Message----- From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Doug Sutherland Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 2:50 PM To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Subject: Re: moving from amd to p3? If you are installing on amd system then moving to p3 system, and the kernel is crashing, then you need to find a way to boot a more generic kernel on the target system. If there is no CD the hopefully there is floppy drive. Prepare or find a generic kernel for the floppy disk, and when booting, from the boot prompt, you'll need to do something like: generic-kernel-name root=/dev/hda1 noinitrd Where generic-kernel-name is the name of the kernel on boot disk and root points to the root filesystem partition on the target machine. Basically you want to boot the kernel on the floppy but boot it using the root filesystem on the target hard drive. Once the system is booted, compile a new kernel on the p3 and update the bootloader accordingly to refer to the new kernel. -- Doug _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.17/850 - Release Date: 6/15/2007 11:31 AM ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Scott Berry @ ` Littlefield, Tyler ` Doug Sutherland ` Doug Sutherland 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Littlefield, Tyler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. you can check tldp. But, I'm using sighted help. don't want to make my grandma sit through kernel compilation. Is there any way I can just install like debian with a really old kernel, like off flyppy, then use apt to upgrade? Thanks, ~~TheCreator~~ [My programs don't have bugs; just randomly added features] msn: compgeek13@gmail.com aim: st8amnd2005 skype: st8amnd127 vertigo head coder web: tysdomain.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Berry" <sberry@northlc.com> To: "'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.'" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 4:23 PM Subject: RE: moving from amd to p3? > Another question here Doug. What if you don't know how to compile a kernel > are there any good tutorials? I use Fedora but at least a general tutorial > would help to begin. > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] > On Behalf Of Doug Sutherland > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 2:50 PM > To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. > Subject: Re: moving from amd to p3? > > If you are installing on amd system then moving to p3 system, > and the kernel is crashing, then you need to find a way to boot > a more generic kernel on the target system. If there is no CD > the hopefully there is floppy drive. Prepare or find a generic > kernel for the floppy disk, and when booting, from the boot > prompt, you'll need to do something like: > > generic-kernel-name root=/dev/hda1 noinitrd > > Where generic-kernel-name is the name of the kernel on boot > disk and root points to the root filesystem partition on the > target machine. Basically you want to boot the kernel on the > floppy but boot it using the root filesystem on the target hard > drive. Once the system is booted, compile a new kernel on > the p3 and update the bootloader accordingly to refer to the > new kernel. > > -- Doug > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.17/850 - Release Date: 6/15/2007 > 11:31 AM > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Littlefield, Tyler @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Littlefield, Tyler 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. If you can wait for the network download, sure you can do a net install. There is a way to do this on most distros these days. I have done it on debian, redhat, and slackware for sure. Get the network install boot image and let it go, it will take a long time though. Tyler said. Is there any way I can just install like debian with a really old kernel, like off flyppy, then use apt to upgrade? It's not that you'd need an old kernel, just a generic one, basically the same bare ones that are used when doing the initial install. But as I said in other message, if you are getting disk boot failure, then something else is wrong. A different kernel will not fix that. Check the connections and if you can, check the BIOS drive settings. If there is another drive in there, take it out for now and boot with just the new drive. -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Littlefield, Tyler 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Littlefield, Tyler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I can deal with it. How hard are these floppies to get for deb? Thanks, Thanks, ~~TheCreator~~ [My programs don't have bugs; just randomly added features] msn: compgeek13@gmail.com aim: st8amnd2005 skype: st8amnd127 vertigo head coder web: tysdomain.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Sutherland" <doug@proficio.ca> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 7:08 PM Subject: Re: moving from amd to p3? > If you can wait for the network download, sure you can do a > net install. There is a way to do this on most distros these days. > I have done it on debian, redhat, and slackware for sure. Get > the network install boot image and let it go, it will take a long > time though. > > Tyler said. > Is there any way I can just install like debian with a really old kernel, > like off flyppy, then use apt to upgrade? > > It's not that you'd need an old kernel, just a generic one, > basically the same bare ones that are used when doing the > initial install. But as I said in other message, if you are > getting disk boot failure, then something else is wrong. > A different kernel will not fix that. Check the connections > and if you can, check the BIOS drive settings. If there is > another drive in there, take it out for now and boot with > just the new drive. > > -- Doug > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Scott Berry ` Littlefield, Tyler @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Gregory Nowak 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. The kernel is easy to compile, although it seems daunting when you first do it. Configuring the kernel, selecting which drivers to include and such is actually more tedious than the compilation. If you google for "linux kernel compilation" you'll find lots of FAQs and articles. There are minor differences in compiling 2.4 and 2.6 kernels, and depending on the linux distro the final steps of updating the bootloader may be different, but in a nutshell it goes something like: download kernel source tarball usually from kernel.org ftp ftp.kernel.org then go to pub/linux/kernel and pick the version you want, put it in /usr/src/linux and extract it there. There will be a symbolic link of /usr/src/linux to the kernel version you have, need to update that if changing to new kernel, so for example rm /usr/src/linux ln -s /usr/src/linux-2.6.21.5 /usr/src/linux This make /usr/src/linux a link to the specific kernel. You would normally leave your older version kernel there in case the new one doesn't work. Before you begin, do this to save your old .config and make sure you have a clean source tree cd /usr/src/linux cp .config .config.SAVE make mrproper If you were installing speakup, at this point you would do the speakup patching of the kernel source. Then you configure the kernel, most people do make menuconfig which is ncurses menu based, but you can also do make config which is interactive text If you want to configure using your old configuration as a start and just change a few things, you can do make oldconfig This creates the .config file which the kernal makefile uses to determine which drivers to include when building the kernel, which are statically built into the kernel, which are buit as loadable modules, and possibly setting some kernel parameters for some drivers. Once the kernel is configured, you simply build it: make dep make clean make bzImage make modules That all takes quite a while, once complete you copy the compiled kernel to the boot location cp /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot Then install the modules make modules_install Finally update the bootloader to use the new kernel. This depends on the distro since some use lilo and others use grub etc. For example, on slackware, it uses lilo, so I would edit lilo.conf and add a new entry for the new kernel then run lilo -v to update the bootloader. You always want to leave your old kernel there, both the kernel itself and the entry in the bootloader, in case the new kernel won't boot, you need to be able to boot the new. That's it in a nutshell. There are lots of docs on the web for more detailed info. Scott said: What if you don't know how to compile a kernel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Doug Sutherland 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 07:27:57PM -0500, Doug Sutherland wrote: > Before you begin, do this to save your old .config > and make sure you have a clean source tree > > cd /usr/src/linux > cp .config .config.SAVE This will only be the case if you're recompiling a kernel source tree again. When you untar a fresh kernel source for the first time, the /usr/src/linux/.config file won't exist. You can however move another .config file to /usr/src/linux/.config, if you want to start with whatever is already configured in that .config file, instead of starting completely from scratch. Personally, when building a new kernel for a new machine, I grab a .config file for the kernel/distro I'm already using, and change that to suit my needs, instead of starting from scratch. > make mrproper > > If you were installing speakup, at this point you would do > the speakup patching of the kernel source. Actually, as far as I know, and this is what I've always done, you're supposed to untar the kernel, patch with speakup, run make mrproper clean, then copy a .config file into place if any. Also, if you're just building a freshly untared kernel from kernel.org without speakup, or any other patches, you don't need to do make mrproper, I never did that in those cases. > If you want to configure using your old configuration > as a start and just change a few things, you can do > make oldconfig Before doing make oldconfig, make sure you have an existing /usr/src/linux/.config, or /boot/config-2.6.21.5, if compiling a 2.6.21.5 kernel. If you don't have either of these, make oldconfig will just use the defaults for your architecture. For the x86 architecture, this is /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/defconfig. > make dep Note that you don't need to run make dep if building a 2.6.x kernel. > make bzImage > make modules If running debian, and if you've got kernelpackage installed, doing make-kpkg kernel_image at this point will run the 2 above make commands for you, and build a package that you can install. When installing that package, it may also install the kernel in the boot loader for you as well. Other distros may have a similar shortcut. - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGdI2/7s9z/XlyUyARApoFAJ99rmzVSGmmYHpUn8+aGbnG+rGjwwCeK6GP ssV+B6eyesc5mBx66NZr+J4= =mk3U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Gregory Nowak ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. > Actually, as far as I know, and this is what I've always done, you're > supposed to untar the kernel, patch with speakup, run make mrproper > clean, then copy a .config file into place if any. Also, if you're just > building a freshly untared kernel from kernel.org without speakup, or > any other patches, you don't need to do make mrproper, I never did > that in those cases. If you read the kernel FAQ it states that even if a fresh kernel from source you should do mrproper because there is a chance that some old stuff gets left behind when they package it. Better safe than sorry, always do mrproper before building a kernel. It can't hurt anything and does make sure there are no old deps or object modules around. mrproper is a superset of clean so if you do that you don't need to also do clean. Also, it doesn't seem right to copy an existing .config after doing the speakup patch. The speakup patch adds new items into .config after speakup is selected in menuconfig, the CONFIG_SPEAKUP and other related entries. If you copied in a .config from a kernel without speakup then it won't have the speakup stuff in .config. If you copy some existing .config then it may not match the kernel that you are compiling from source. If it's the same kernel version that you used before it will work, but if you now have a newer kernel it may or may not work, and you might be missing some new stuff that's in the newer kernel version. It is a pain to go through the config, but worthwhile to understand what you need and don't for your hardware. There is so much in the kernel that is not needed on most systems. If you set all those to not be included, then you have a whole lot less to compile. -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Doug Sutherland ` Scott Berry ` Littlefield, Tyler 2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 09:49:27PM -0500, Doug Sutherland wrote: > Also, it doesn't seem right to copy an existing .config after doing the > speakup patch. The speakup patch adds new items into .config after > speakup is selected in menuconfig, the CONFIG_SPEAKUP and > other related entries. If you copied in a .config from a kernel without > speakup then it won't have the speakup stuff in .config. In that case, you'll be prompted for those options when doing config/menuconfig/oldconfig, and you'll be told that it's a new option. > If you copy > some existing .config then it may not match the kernel that you are > compiling from source. If it's the same kernel version that you used > before it will work, but if you now have a newer kernel it may or > may not work, and you might be missing some new stuff that's in the > newer kernel version. Yes. If you're using a .config file that you didn't generate yourself from an older kernel to compile a newer kernel, it's still fine to run oldconfig and get prompted for any new options. However, after doing that, you should do config/menuconfig, and verify the configuration. No, this isn't redundant. Doing oldconfig gives you the chance to configure any new options the way you want them configured, while doing config/menuconfig let's you verify the configuration, without having to worry that you might miss any new, and maybe important options. However, if your distribution's kernel version matches the kernel version you're compiling, I still think using the distro's .config will give you a good starting point. > > It is a pain to go through the config, but worthwhile to understand > what you need and don't for your hardware. There is so much in > the kernel that is not needed on most systems. If you set all those > to not be included, then you have a whole lot less to compile. > Agreed. It's too bad there isn't a script for linux that can examine the hardware in a system, and generate a streamed down .config specific to that system. One of the neat things about netbsd is that there is a script that parses your dmesg output when running the netbsd-supplied kernel, and then it generates a streamed-down kernel config specific to your hardware. Greg - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGdK3d7s9z/XlyUyARApjdAKCcUFqQi+AdKv2xJkFlPrcMxZSZegCglD1z eRYg5bwoDePhKlRWFCZrhP4= =pOCk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I didn't know that make oldconfig would recognize new options and prompt you for them. I guess that's because I don't usually use oldconfig. Since having the right config is the most important part of the kernel build, I always do it from scratch, with only the new source tree and nothing old in there. Perhaps I'm a glutton for punishment. hehe. But for those who haven't compiled kernel, it's really not that hard. Like most things, there's only one way to learn, by screwing up a few times and making kernels that won't boot, and learning how to recover from that, learning by trial and error what some of those drivers are and are not. I also highly recommend doing the linuxfromscratch thing if you have the time and patience. It's quite satisfying to build the entire mess from source and gives you a much better understanding of the fundamentals of linux. When I first started using linux I had this constant fear of missing stuff, if I didn't have everything installed then I wouldn't be able to build or use xyz software later. Now I'm the opposite, I always want a minimal system, only what I need and nothing more. Some of these distros have 6GB of software on the disks. Insane. -- Doug ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Jun 17, 2007 at 12:18:57AM -0500, Doug Sutherland wrote: > I didn't know that make oldconfig would recognize new > options and prompt you for them. I guess that's because > I don't usually use oldconfig. Since having the right config > is the most important part of the kernel build, I always do > it from scratch, with only the new source tree and nothing > old in there. Oh boy. If I did that instead of being able to use oldconfig, I'd be upgrading to my own kernel build every 3 years or so. When I want to upgrade to a newer version, I take the .config from my existing version, slap it into the new source tree, do make oldconfig, compile, reboot, and bingo. The only scenario where this doesn't fully work is when going from 2.2 to 2.4, and from 2.4 to 2.6. When I did that, I still used oldconfig to take care of anything obvious (options marked as new), but I did go through both times, and verified the whole config carefully before compiling. Greg - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGdLxa7s9z/XlyUyARAjLHAJ9l4gi7n7g24zWen78w5dutUdA7HQCfXP5c 2rFFUIuM8nleMsBJ76U4Xsk= =Kqd2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* RE: moving from amd to p3? ` Doug Sutherland ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Scott Berry ` Doug Sutherland ` Littlefield, Tyler 2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Scott Berry @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Speakup is a screen review system for Linux.' Doug, What is the best way to go through the config? Do you just do like a lspci and also check for isa stuff too which I don't remember how to do. Should that give you a pretty good idea of what the kernel needs and does not need? Also how do you know what really needs configured. Scott -----Original Message----- From: speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca [mailto:speakup-bounces@braille.uwo.ca] On Behalf Of Doug Sutherland Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 9:49 PM To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Subject: Re: moving from amd to p3? > Actually, as far as I know, and this is what I've always done, you're > supposed to untar the kernel, patch with speakup, run make mrproper > clean, then copy a .config file into place if any. Also, if you're just > building a freshly untared kernel from kernel.org without speakup, or > any other patches, you don't need to do make mrproper, I never did > that in those cases. If you read the kernel FAQ it states that even if a fresh kernel from source you should do mrproper because there is a chance that some old stuff gets left behind when they package it. Better safe than sorry, always do mrproper before building a kernel. It can't hurt anything and does make sure there are no old deps or object modules around. mrproper is a superset of clean so if you do that you don't need to also do clean. Also, it doesn't seem right to copy an existing .config after doing the speakup patch. The speakup patch adds new items into .config after speakup is selected in menuconfig, the CONFIG_SPEAKUP and other related entries. If you copied in a .config from a kernel without speakup then it won't have the speakup stuff in .config. If you copy some existing .config then it may not match the kernel that you are compiling from source. If it's the same kernel version that you used before it will work, but if you now have a newer kernel it may or may not work, and you might be missing some new stuff that's in the newer kernel version. It is a pain to go through the config, but worthwhile to understand what you need and don't for your hardware. There is so much in the kernel that is not needed on most systems. If you set all those to not be included, then you have a whole lot less to compile. -- Doug _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.17/850 - Release Date: 6/15/2007 11:31 AM ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Scott Berry @ ` Doug Sutherland ` Gregory Nowak 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Yes, lspci is very useful in knowing what hardware you have, and therefore what drivers you need. Try using the -v verbose option. Then on your running system, do lsmod and note what drivers you have loaded, and match them with your pci devices. Some may not be modules, because all of these drivers can be either loadable modules or statically compiled into the kernel. I actually think going through the config process, even frequently is a good idea, because it teaches you about all of the various drivers. When you first start building kernels it's inevitable that some mistakes will be made, but those are valuable experiences. I recall selecting a processor option that I thought was right and the system wouldn't boot, won't be making that mistake again. I have at times missed selecting drivers I needed, or included stuff I will never use, but over time you get to know what they all are. I can go through the kernel config very fast now and know what I need, which in the large collection of stuff is not much! Also look at your existing .config file. There you see all of the drivers listed, which are statically built into kernel, which are modules, and which are not included. The "standard" kernels that come with distros usually have way more than you need. That's not really a problem these days with tons of RAM available and fast processors, but you can reduce your build time a lot by removing a bunch of stuff you don't need. I have become more disciplined with this because I also work on embedded systems where you definitely only want what you need, it's unthinkable to compile drivers for hardware that you don't have. The only way to really get to know the kernel drivers is to build kernels. It does take a long time, but I recommend not sitting around waiting for them, start a build and go to sleep, go for a walk, go to work, whatever. The "default" kernel will have all of the various ethernet drivers included, when I only need one, and only one will work with my hardware. Same is true of other things like audio, but you need to get to know that there are core drivers and hardware specific. For example, with usb there is a usb core driver, everyone needs that, but your system will have either an ohci, uhci, or ehci controller, and the devices you actually use on usb are probably just a few compared to the huge list that gets compiled if you choose them all. Audio is similar, you have core drivers for alsa and then hardware specific ones. There is usually huge sections of the kernel that you don't need on a PC, for example, I have an IDE controller so I don't need SCSI, I only need SCSI emulation to support CD burning, so I exlude most of SCSI. I don't need a game controller joystick port. I don't need any of the printer drivers. I don't need all of those flash devices listed as mtd, memory technology devices, etc. After you have gone through the config several times you get to know what you need and don't. The kernel is huge, getting to be kinda scary huge. Usually including extra stuff doesn't really "cost" you anything more than some disk space and compile time, because your system will only load drivers it actually needs, unless you statically compile in stuff you don't have hardware for. So it's safe to include all of the networking hardware driver, for example, but getting to know what all these drivers are takes the mystery out of the kernel, and also teaches you what hardware is supported, when you go to buy new cards or peripherals. Another thing to consider, there is a huge amount of networking code, much of which you don't need if you are just using the web and email etc. Excluding stuff you don't need increases security. If I will never do any point to point tunneling, then I'd rather not let anyone, in case someone does manage to compromise the machine. The networking in particular takes some time to understand, but there are tons of good FAQs on the net about most of it. Do I need sendmail? Not me, I just use a provider pop3 server for mail. Do I need multicast networking? Nope. I only need DHCP client support, not server. There are so many things I don't need altogether. Getting to know what you do need speeds up builds and increases your chances of successful builds. I have found that sometimes my kernel build will terminate in error trying to build some module I will never use. Actually that has happened quite a lot over the years. Better to just compile what I need. -- Doug Scott wrote: What is the best way to go through the config? Do you just do like a lspci <snip> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Doug Sutherland @ ` Gregory Nowak ` Doug Sutherland 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Gregory Nowak @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Jun 17, 2007 at 09:56:59PM -0500, Doug Sutherland wrote: > Yes, lspci is very useful in knowing what hardware you have, and > therefore what drivers you need. Try using the -v verbose option. > Then on your running system, do lsmod and note what drivers you > have loaded, and match them with your pci devices. Some may > not be modules, because all of these drivers can be either loadable > modules or statically compiled into the kernel. Dmesg can also be very enlightening when determining the hardware in a system. If you are using a kernel that came with your distribution, then chances are good that most, if not all of the support for your hardware is built as modules, and isn't statically built into the kernel. > There is usually huge sections of the kernel that you don't > need on a PC, for example, I have an IDE controller so > I don't need SCSI, I only need SCSI emulation to support > CD burning, so I exlude most of SCSI. Actually, if you have an ide burner, and are running a 2.6.x kernel, then you don't need ide-scsi emulation for cd burning either. Greg - -- web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) - -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGdeuF7s9z/XlyUyARAmfIAJ0cHghg5MyNX6e4mh/ArC7o2zQleACfR49B pvc6e3e5lN2kmga9mkCZmEU= =1FOv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Gregory Nowak @ ` Doug Sutherland 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Doug Sutherland @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. I am admittedly on the trailing edge, still running 2.4. The trailing edge is less exciting but more stable. And most of my linux work is not on x86 or desktops so I'm a bit out of touch with the most recent stuff. Come to think of it, I recall in the past having to go through a pain compiling a special kernel just to do CD burning with SCSI emulation, but with the slackware 11 it just worked, even with 2.4 kernel. I'm sure 2.6 is better but I'll wait till you folks are on 2.8 and I'll use the stablest 2.6. :) Greg > Actually, if you have an ide burner, and are running a 2.6.x kernel, > then you don't need ide-scsi emulation for cd burning either. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: moving from amd to p3? ` Doug Sutherland ` Gregory Nowak ` Scott Berry @ ` Littlefield, Tyler 2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Littlefield, Tyler @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. If you do a make oldconfig, with your distro's kernel, in debian the one found in /boot I believe, it will ask you questions about the kernel that aren't in the old config. also, if speakup patches, I'd mrproper, then put the config in, and patch speakup in. Thanks, ~~TheCreator~~ [My programs don't have bugs; just randomly added features] msn: compgeek13@gmail.com aim: st8amnd2005 skype: st8amnd127 vertigo head coder web: tysdomain.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Sutherland" <doug@proficio.ca> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Re: moving from amd to p3? > > >> Actually, as far as I know, and this is what I've always done, you're >> supposed to untar the kernel, patch with speakup, run make mrproper >> clean, then copy a .config file into place if any. Also, if you're just >> building a freshly untared kernel from kernel.org without speakup, or >> any other patches, you don't need to do make mrproper, I never did >> that in those cases. > > If you read the kernel FAQ it states that even if a fresh kernel from > source you should do mrproper because there is a chance that some > old stuff gets left behind when they package it. Better safe than sorry, > always do mrproper before building a kernel. It can't hurt anything > and does make sure there are no old deps or object modules around. > mrproper is a superset of clean so if you do that you don't need to > also do clean. > > Also, it doesn't seem right to copy an existing .config after doing the > speakup patch. The speakup patch adds new items into .config after > speakup is selected in menuconfig, the CONFIG_SPEAKUP and > other related entries. If you copied in a .config from a kernel without > speakup then it won't have the speakup stuff in .config. If you copy > some existing .config then it may not match the kernel that you are > compiling from source. If it's the same kernel version that you used > before it will work, but if you now have a newer kernel it may or > may not work, and you might be missing some new stuff that's in the > newer kernel version. > > It is a pain to go through the config, but worthwhile to understand > what you need and don't for your hardware. There is so much in > the kernel that is not needed on most systems. If you set all those > to not be included, then you have a whole lot less to compile. > > -- Doug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
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