Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

[tony seth]

Hi all:  Since we're on the subject of thinkpads, I've got a bit of a 
poser too.  First, I've tried a few different distros on this critter, 
and here's the thing...
I can get grml to boot, but, it doesn't pick up the doubletalk when I 
specify it to the grml prompt, however, when I am finished booting, and 
echo it to /proc/speakup/synth_name, it comes right up.
So, I thought I'd try it with slackware, and no dice, even after the 
boot process completes, I know it completes because I can run the eject 
command and it releases the cd from the drive.  Is this a bios problem, 
or is there someplace else I should be looking?  By the way, I did get 
the 6.1 ubuntu to work too, but I like my text console better just 
now... any help would be most welcome, as I'm running xp right now, I 
kinda' liked it when I found out that xp won't even see a linux 
partition so now I know that when I reinstall it on this beast I can do 
a duel-boot on it and use it to test the linux version of Audio Quake 
and still play my winders-based games too...
Thanks much!

-- 
Email services by FreedomBox.  Surf the Net at the sound of your voice. 
www.freedombox.info

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Brent Harding]

The strangest thing I found when installing Ubuntu Edgy Eft from the live CD 
with sighted assistance  on my old machine was that even though I used the 
screen reader option, Orca wouldn't speak at all before the installation, 
but it came right up after I logged in after the reboot. It doesn't seem to 
be running too bad for 256 mb of ram on a 1 gig processor. I haven't done a 
lot with it yet though because of a bad spare keyboard that has letter keys 
that stick together. I think I will replace it with a KVM switch because I 
also got my wireless keyboard that is fairly new broken trying to reset it, 
because I must've poked the recessed button wrong. I think now that it's 
installed things will work fairly well once I replace Festival with Dec Talk 
or something.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tony seth" <lp800@myfreedombox.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues


> Hi all:  Since we're on the subject of thinkpads, I've got a bit of a
> poser too.  First, I've tried a few different distros on this critter,
> and here's the thing...
> I can get grml to boot, but, it doesn't pick up the doubletalk when I
> specify it to the grml prompt, however, when I am finished booting, and
> echo it to /proc/speakup/synth_name, it comes right up.
> So, I thought I'd try it with slackware, and no dice, even after the
> boot process completes, I know it completes because I can run the eject
> command and it releases the cd from the drive.  Is this a bios problem,
> or is there someplace else I should be looking?  By the way, I did get
> the 6.1 ubuntu to work too, but I like my text console better just
> now... any help would be most welcome, as I'm running xp right now, I
> kinda' liked it when I found out that xp won't even see a linux
> partition so now I know that when I reinstall it on this beast I can do
> a duel-boot on it and use it to test the linux version of Audio Quake
> and still play my winders-based games too...
> Thanks much!
>
> -- 
> Email services by FreedomBox.  Surf the Net at the sound of your voice.
> www.freedombox.info
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Beth Hatch]

i Janina,

Yes, I will be taking into consideration your guidelines posted in the 
how-to when I reinstall Linux, especially with the partitions as you 
suggested.  I hope the speakup issue gets fixed as well, glad I'm not 
the only one experiencing weird issues with the Dectalk Express.

Take care and thanks again,

Beth

Janina Sajka wrote:
> You can expect any laptop you buy with some OS already installed will
> have consumed most, if not all the available hd. Either you resize with
> some tool, or delete partitions and reconfigure. No surprise there.
>
> I would strongly suggest you not blithely install Linux on a single
> partition. At the very least, I strongly suggest a separate partition
> for /home.  Please consider the guidance re such decisioning provided in
> our installation HOWTO:
>
> http://SpeakupModified.Org/HOWTO_INSTALL.html#diskdruid
>
>
> Beth Hatch writes:
>   
>> Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues
>> Hi Sean and all,
>>
>> That's a really good question!<smile>  Yes, Fedora did notice my 
>> Windows  partition.  The problem was that the way that Lenovo made the  
>> partitions, according
>> to my Linux instructor, meant that we had to break  the existing 
>> partitions before installing Linux and then fix grub to  recognize what 
>> we had done.
>> The computer was broken into one 30  gigabyte partition and another 90 
>> GB partition.  Since there wasn't  enough room on the smaller partition, 
>> we had
>> to use the bigger one in  order to put Linux on one 45 GB partition and 
>> Windows on the other 45 GB  partion we then made. this meant that we had 
>> to temporarily
>> remove  Windows to build the new partitions. 
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>   

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Janina Sajka]

You can expect any laptop you buy with some OS already installed will
have consumed most, if not all the available hd. Either you resize with
some tool, or delete partitions and reconfigure. No surprise there.

I would strongly suggest you not blithely install Linux on a single
partition. At the very least, I strongly suggest a separate partition
for /home.  Please consider the guidance re such decisioning provided in
our installation HOWTO:

http://SpeakupModified.Org/HOWTO_INSTALL.html#diskdruid


Beth Hatch writes:
> Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues
> Hi Sean and all,
> 
> That's a really good question!<smile>  Yes, Fedora did notice my 
> Windows  partition.  The problem was that the way that Lenovo made the  
> partitions, according
> to my Linux instructor, meant that we had to break  the existing 
> partitions before installing Linux and then fix grub to  recognize what 
> we had done.
> The computer was broken into one 30  gigabyte partition and another 90 
> GB partition.  Since there wasn't  enough room on the smaller partition, 
> we had
> to use the bigger one in  order to put Linux on one 45 GB partition and 
> Windows on the other 45 GB  partion we then made. this meant that we had 
> to temporarily
> remove  Windows to build the new partitions. 

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Janina Sajka]

Please be aware that the DEC Talk drivers have been broken in recent
Speakup Modified kernels on Fedora, at least. I see Kirk checked in a
fix the other day, so perhaps this will be resolved when Bill is able to
roll this fix into a new kernel build. But, we'll also have to wait for
those who can test to give us their reports.

Janina

Beth Hatch writes:
> Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues
mm> Hi Janina and all,
> 
> As for Speakup, I've noticed on my desktop machine, where I also use 
> the  Dectalk Express, that Speakup will suddenly stop reading when I'm 
> in the  middle
> of reading such things as compiling Gnome-speech or when Yum  updates my 
> system.  It will be talking, then it suddenly stops talking,  I have to 
> refresh
> the screen in order for it to start talking again.   Very strange indeed!

Thinkpad Saga Continues

[John covici]

I had one of these and I just resized the partition, so I kept the
Windows installl,  they have a hidden partition which can be used to
restore to factory settings.

on Thursday 04/12/2007 Beth Hatch(bhatch200@comcast.net) wrote
 > Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues
 > Hi Sean and all,
 > 
 > That's a really good question!<smile>  Yes, Fedora did notice my 
 > Windows  partition.  The problem was that the way that Lenovo made the  
 > partitions, according
 > to my Linux instructor, meant that we had to break  the existing 
 > partitions before installing Linux and then fix grub to  recognize what 
 > we had done.
 > The computer was broken into one 30  gigabyte partition and another 90 
 > GB partition.  Since there wasn't  enough room on the smaller partition, 
 > we had
 > to use the bigger one in  order to put Linux on one 45 GB partition and 
 > Windows on the other 45 GB  partion we then made. this meant that we had 
 > to temporarily
 > remove  Windows to build the new partitions.  Then when I tried to run 
 > the XP installer, either the newer hardware on the Thinkpad wasn't 
 > recognized, and also, Windows wouldn't even recognize that I had a Linux 
 > partition at all.  I really don't know why we  couldn't find another way 
 > to do this other than using a utility to  re-partition
 > the disk before installing. I'm not knowledgeable enough to  know if we 
 > could have done it better.<smile> but my instructor said we  had to 
 > breakt the
 > big partition in half so that Windows had half and  Linux had half.  
 > That part confused me a little because I didn't  understand why he 
 > couldn't break
 > up the partition right there and then,  and save my Windows 
 > installation,but he said no, so we started by  breaking up the big 
 > partition with the Fedora
 > installer and then  reinstalling Windows.  Here is where things got 
 > weird and now we're  rebuilding the system.  If nothing else, it's a 
 > learning experience.<smile>
 > 
 > 
 > Beth
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Speakup mailing list
 > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
 > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Beth Hatch]

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues
Hi Sean and all,

That's a really good question!<smile>  Yes, Fedora did notice my 
Windows  partition.  The problem was that the way that Lenovo made the  
partitions, according
to my Linux instructor, meant that we had to break  the existing 
partitions before installing Linux and then fix grub to  recognize what 
we had done.
The computer was broken into one 30  gigabyte partition and another 90 
GB partition.  Since there wasn't  enough room on the smaller partition, 
we had
to use the bigger one in  order to put Linux on one 45 GB partition and 
Windows on the other 45 GB  partion we then made. this meant that we had 
to temporarily
remove  Windows to build the new partitions.  Then when I tried to run 
the XP installer, either the newer hardware on the Thinkpad wasn't 
recognized, and also, Windows wouldn't even recognize that I had a Linux 
partition at all.  I really don't know why we  couldn't find another way 
to do this other than using a utility to  re-partition
the disk before installing. I'm not knowledgeable enough to  know if we 
could have done it better.<smile> but my instructor said we  had to 
breakt the
big partition in half so that Windows had half and  Linux had half.  
That part confused me a little because I didn't  understand why he 
couldn't break
up the partition right there and then,  and save my Windows 
installation,but he said no, so we started by  breaking up the big 
partition with the Fedora
installer and then  reinstalling Windows.  Here is where things got 
weird and now we're  rebuilding the system.  If nothing else, it's a 
learning experience.<smile>


Beth

Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Beth Hatch]

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues
Hi Janina and all,

Unfortunately, Windows was in place when I first got the Thinkpad but I  
had no way that I knew of at the time to break the partition that  
contained Windows
in order to share it with Windows.  My friend who is  assisting me says 
that she has gotten XP up and running and partitioned  half of the drive 
now so
that I can use the other half of it for Linux.   I should get the 
computer back tomorrow or Saturday, and then we'll see  what happens 
when I try to install
again.

As for Speakup, I've noticed on my desktop machine, where I also use 
the  Dectalk Express, that Speakup will suddenly stop reading when I'm 
in the  middle
of reading such things as compiling Gnome-speech or when Yum  updates my 
system.  It will be talking, then it suddenly stops talking,  I have to 
refresh
the screen in order for it to start talking again.   Very strange indeed!

I suspect I'll be posting here again when I try and do the dual boot  
thing, as I haven't done this before.<smile>

Thanks,

Beth

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Beth:

Don't hesitate to post your troubles here. Some of us have been there
and we should be able to help. No need to learn everything the hard way!
<grin>

What I didn't know until just this past week is that the DEC Talk
Speakup driver is indeed broken. It may not have been your serial port,
though the serial port being off in bios by default has been the case on
many Thinkpads forever.

Also, as you've discovered, you want to get your Win in place first
before installing Linux. Win doesn't share with the other kids on your
hd very well. Got flagged "needs improvement," but can't seem to pass
out of sand box. May have to be held back a grade or two.

Good luck.

Janina

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Beth:

Don't hesitate to post your troubles here. Some of us have been there
and we should be able to help. No need to learn everything the hard way!
<grin>

What I didn't know until just this past week is that the DEC Talk
Speakup driver is indeed broken. It may not have been your serial port,
though the serial port being off in bios by default has been the case on
many Thinkpads forever.

Also, as you've discovered, you want to get your Win in place first
before installing Linux. Win doesn't share with the other kids on your
hd very well. Got flagged "needs improvement," but can't seem to pass
out of sand box. May have to be held back a grade or two.

Good luck.

Janina

Beth Hatch writes:
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,  Because so many of you kindly posted on this list and 
> privately to me concerning getting Linux on my Thinkpad, I figured I 
> would update you all on what has happened in case it saves some of you 
> the trouble and annoyance I have been experiencing lately.<smile>  I'm 
> sure those of you more knowledgeable than myself on this may have been 
> able to resolve it better and quicker, but I'm still learning, as you 
> will soon see.<smile>
> 
> 
> 
>     My machine came with a 120 gigabyte hard drive with a 30 gigabyte 
> rescue partition containing the computer's recovery files, the other 
> partition was taken up by Windows XP and various Thinkpad and Windows 
> applications. 
> 
>     First, I tried to hook up the docking station and install Fedora 
> using the docking station's serial port to have Speakup talk for me.  
> Speakup could not be found when I specified my Dectalk express as the 
> synthesizer, whether I specified a tty port by naming it specifically as 
> suggested by Janina or by having Speakup find it without specifying the 
> tty port.  Consequently, in order to do my class assignments, I decided 
> to have my instructor assist me in installing Fedora and together we  
> got Gnome and Orca up and running.
> 
>     When we tried to install Windows XP to set up the dual boot system, 
> my XP disk kept hanging at the hardware inspection portion of the 
> installation.  Believe me, if I didn't need this laptop for school which 
> requires Windows and Linux, I would just keep a Linux system!!<smile>  
> Lenovo tech support said on its web site to turn off the dual core 
> processor support in the bios temporarily to allow Windows XP to install 
> properly.  I had a friend assist me and we turned off the dual core as 
> directed.  We still couldn't install XP, same problem, XP hanging at the 
> hardware inspection process.
> 
>     Just for grins, a fellow geek  friend who agreed to help me disabled 
> just about everything in the bios, just to get XP running, no go with 
> that either, same problem.  She tried a Windows 2000 disk, just to see 
> if she could see my Linux partition, and voila! Windows 2000 at least 
> figured out that Linux lived on my system and found the rescue 
> partition.  She nuked those partitions for me, and we are starting from 
> scratch!!  It seems that Linux and grub will see my Windows partition if 
> I install Windows *before* Windows, but Windows XP gets cranky and won't 
> see my Linux partition if I install Linux first and then try to install 
> Windows afterwards.  I realize that this sounds strange, so let me 
> clarify.  Since there were only two partitions, I had to break the 
> larger one to install Linux and the one for the rescue partition wasn't 
> big enough for Fedora with all of the other applications and data in the 
> rescue partition.  I didn't have access to something like partition 
> magic to rebuild the partitions, so we had to take this crazy route 
> instead.  This appears to be what happens at school with all of the dual 
> boot systems where XP and Fedora 6 are involved, Windows seems to be 
> happy being installed first, then Linux and grub set up the dual boot 
> properly.  XP is now on my machine, and I am going to try again to 
> install Linux.
> 
>     Word to the wise, if you have a Thinkpad, the serial port appears to 
> be disabled by default in the bios.  We turned it on, and now I'm going 
> to try
>  again and see how it goes.  I'll keep you posted, unfortunately this 
> thing isn't over yet.<smile>
> 
> Thanks for listening,
> 
> Beth
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.202.595.7777;	sip:janina@a11y.org
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com

Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina@a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

Re: Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Sean McMahon]

Glad to hear you got it working Beth!  Just out of curiosity, shouldn't the 
particianing software for your linux system have found your Windows partician 
and created a new partician for linux?  I'm curious because I, one day, want to 
have a duel-boot system and thought from the docs I read that you could just 
have the linux particianer resize the particians for you so Bill and the penguin 
could live happily?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth Hatch" <bhatch200@comcast.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: Thinkpad Saga Continues


>
>
> Hi everyone,  Because so many of you kindly posted on this list and
> privately to me concerning getting Linux on my Thinkpad, I figured I
> would update you all on what has happened in case it saves some of you
> the trouble and annoyance I have been experiencing lately.<smile>  I'm
> sure those of you more knowledgeable than myself on this may have been
> able to resolve it better and quicker, but I'm still learning, as you
> will soon see.<smile>
>
>
>
>    My machine came with a 120 gigabyte hard drive with a 30 gigabyte
> rescue partition containing the computer's recovery files, the other
> partition was taken up by Windows XP and various Thinkpad and Windows
> applications.
>
>    First, I tried to hook up the docking station and install Fedora
> using the docking station's serial port to have Speakup talk for me.
> Speakup could not be found when I specified my Dectalk express as the
> synthesizer, whether I specified a tty port by naming it specifically as
> suggested by Janina or by having Speakup find it without specifying the
> tty port.  Consequently, in order to do my class assignments, I decided
> to have my instructor assist me in installing Fedora and together we
> got Gnome and Orca up and running.
>
>    When we tried to install Windows XP to set up the dual boot system,
> my XP disk kept hanging at the hardware inspection portion of the
> installation.  Believe me, if I didn't need this laptop for school which
> requires Windows and Linux, I would just keep a Linux system!!<smile>
> Lenovo tech support said on its web site to turn off the dual core
> processor support in the bios temporarily to allow Windows XP to install
> properly.  I had a friend assist me and we turned off the dual core as
> directed.  We still couldn't install XP, same problem, XP hanging at the
> hardware inspection process.
>
>    Just for grins, a fellow geek  friend who agreed to help me disabled
> just about everything in the bios, just to get XP running, no go with
> that either, same problem.  She tried a Windows 2000 disk, just to see
> if she could see my Linux partition, and voila! Windows 2000 at least
> figured out that Linux lived on my system and found the rescue
> partition.  She nuked those partitions for me, and we are starting from
> scratch!!  It seems that Linux and grub will see my Windows partition if
> I install Windows *before* Windows, but Windows XP gets cranky and won't
> see my Linux partition if I install Linux first and then try to install
> Windows afterwards.  I realize that this sounds strange, so let me
> clarify.  Since there were only two partitions, I had to break the
> larger one to install Linux and the one for the rescue partition wasn't
> big enough for Fedora with all of the other applications and data in the
> rescue partition.  I didn't have access to something like partition
> magic to rebuild the partitions, so we had to take this crazy route
> instead.  This appears to be what happens at school with all of the dual
> boot systems where XP and Fedora 6 are involved, Windows seems to be
> happy being installed first, then Linux and grub set up the dual boot
> properly.  XP is now on my machine, and I am going to try again to
> install Linux.
>
>    Word to the wise, if you have a Thinkpad, the serial port appears to
> be disabled by default in the bios.  We turned it on, and now I'm going
> to try
> again and see how it goes.  I'll keep you posted, unfortunately this
> thing isn't over yet.<smile>
>
> Thanks for listening,
>
> Beth
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Thinkpad Saga Continues

[Beth Hatch]

Hi everyone,  Because so many of you kindly posted on this list and 
privately to me concerning getting Linux on my Thinkpad, I figured I 
would update you all on what has happened in case it saves some of you 
the trouble and annoyance I have been experiencing lately.<smile>  I'm 
sure those of you more knowledgeable than myself on this may have been 
able to resolve it better and quicker, but I'm still learning, as you 
will soon see.<smile>



    My machine came with a 120 gigabyte hard drive with a 30 gigabyte 
rescue partition containing the computer's recovery files, the other 
partition was taken up by Windows XP and various Thinkpad and Windows 
applications. 

    First, I tried to hook up the docking station and install Fedora 
using the docking station's serial port to have Speakup talk for me.  
Speakup could not be found when I specified my Dectalk express as the 
synthesizer, whether I specified a tty port by naming it specifically as 
suggested by Janina or by having Speakup find it without specifying the 
tty port.  Consequently, in order to do my class assignments, I decided 
to have my instructor assist me in installing Fedora and together we  
got Gnome and Orca up and running.

    When we tried to install Windows XP to set up the dual boot system, 
my XP disk kept hanging at the hardware inspection portion of the 
installation.  Believe me, if I didn't need this laptop for school which 
requires Windows and Linux, I would just keep a Linux system!!<smile>  
Lenovo tech support said on its web site to turn off the dual core 
processor support in the bios temporarily to allow Windows XP to install 
properly.  I had a friend assist me and we turned off the dual core as 
directed.  We still couldn't install XP, same problem, XP hanging at the 
hardware inspection process.

    Just for grins, a fellow geek  friend who agreed to help me disabled 
just about everything in the bios, just to get XP running, no go with 
that either, same problem.  She tried a Windows 2000 disk, just to see 
if she could see my Linux partition, and voila! Windows 2000 at least 
figured out that Linux lived on my system and found the rescue 
partition.  She nuked those partitions for me, and we are starting from 
scratch!!  It seems that Linux and grub will see my Windows partition if 
I install Windows *before* Windows, but Windows XP gets cranky and won't 
see my Linux partition if I install Linux first and then try to install 
Windows afterwards.  I realize that this sounds strange, so let me 
clarify.  Since there were only two partitions, I had to break the 
larger one to install Linux and the one for the rescue partition wasn't 
big enough for Fedora with all of the other applications and data in the 
rescue partition.  I didn't have access to something like partition 
magic to rebuild the partitions, so we had to take this crazy route 
instead.  This appears to be what happens at school with all of the dual 
boot systems where XP and Fedora 6 are involved, Windows seems to be 
happy being installed first, then Linux and grub set up the dual boot 
properly.  XP is now on my machine, and I am going to try again to 
install Linux.

    Word to the wise, if you have a Thinkpad, the serial port appears to 
be disabled by default in the bios.  We turned it on, and now I'm going 
to try
 again and see how it goes.  I'll keep you posted, unfortunately this 
thing isn't over yet.<smile>

Thanks for listening,

Beth