This DHCP is too dynamic

This DHCP is too dynamic

[Janina Sajka]

I'm trying to help a friend. I have an account on her system, but her
ISP seems to change her IP about once a minute. 

Aside from my curiosity about how they could make such a thing work, is
there anything I can do to stabalize her on a single address?

I've never seen anything like this, but then I have no experience with
pppoe, either.

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Andrew Hodgson]

Janina Sajka in <20030629200755.GB24435@rednote.net>:

>I'm trying to help a friend. I have an account on her system, but her
>ISP seems to change her IP about once a minute. 
>
>Aside from my curiosity about how they could make such a thing work, is
>there anything I can do to stabalize her on a single address?
>
>I've never seen anything like this, but then I have no experience with
>pppoe, either.

Sign her up for a dynamic dns hostname <www.dyndns.org> are very good,
and the Linux clients work very well, run as a daemon etc.  The
service is free, and you refer to her box via myname.dyndns.org and
then if they have the correct a record assigned to that hostname then
you can connect.  The clients can be configured (i.e, how often to
update dyndns records etc).

Andrew.
-- 
Andrew Hodgson, Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK.
Email: Andrew@hodgsonfamily.org

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Janina Sajka]

But that service would have to update its record every minute or so.
It's not the ip address that's the problem. I don't mind typing numbers.
It's the way her ISP changes the ip address every minute or so. I'm not
kidding--I've had her do an ifconfig ppp0 and we get a different address
every minute or so.

Andrew Hodgson writes:
> From: Andrew Hodgson <andrew@hodgsonfamily.org>
> 
> Janina Sajka in <20030629200755.GB24435@rednote.net>:
> 
> >I'm trying to help a friend. I have an account on her system, but her
> >ISP seems to change her IP about once a minute. 
> >
> >Aside from my curiosity about how they could make such a thing work, is
> >there anything I can do to stabalize her on a single address?
> >
> >I've never seen anything like this, but then I have no experience with
> >pppoe, either.
> 
> Sign her up for a dynamic dns hostname <www.dyndns.org> are very good,
> and the Linux clients work very well, run as a daemon etc.  The
> service is free, and you refer to her box via myname.dyndns.org and
> then if they have the correct a record assigned to that hostname then
> you can connect.  The clients can be configured (i.e, how often to
> update dyndns records etc).
> 
> Andrew.
> -- 
> Andrew Hodgson, Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK.
> Email: Andrew@hodgsonfamily.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Andrew Hodgson]

Janina Sajka in <20030629204637.GC24435@rednote.net>:

>But that service would have to update its record every minute or so.
>It's not the ip address that's the problem. I don't mind typing numbers.
>It's the way her ISP changes the ip address every minute or so. I'm not
>kidding--I've had her do an ifconfig ppp0 and we get a different address
>every minute or so.

This would cause a problem as the system will kick you off updating
the hostname ip address every minute.  Are you sure this is not an
isp/configuration problem at her end?  If it really is changing every
minute, there are serious problems (i.e, how to download large files).

Andrew.
-- 
Andrew Hodgson, Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK.
Email: Andrew@hodgsonfamily.org

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Janina,

Unfortunately, it would seem your friend may have a bigger problem than just
the practical inability to use a service like dyndns for consistent domain
name resolution.  Each time a device's IP address changes, any TCP sessions
or UDP streams will cease to function.  They will have to be re-established
using the new IP address.  Does your friend complain of constant "loss of
connectivity" or similar networking issues despite using a "always on" DSL
service?

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>; <ma-linux@rednote.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 1:07 PM
Subject: This DHCP is too dynamic


> I'm trying to help a friend. I have an account on her system, but her
> ISP seems to change her IP about once a minute.
>
> Aside from my curiosity about how they could make such a thing work, is
> there anything I can do to stabalize her on a single address?
>
> I've never seen anything like this, but then I have no experience with
> pppoe, either.
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Adam Myrow]

As I understand it, PPPOE works much like dial-up.  That is, it requires a
username and password before connecting you.  It then gets a dynamic IP
address and stays with that address until you disconnect.  I'm wondering
if perhaps the user of PPPOE is disconnecting every few minutes or if the
ISP is kicking him off?  As long as he's connected, he should not change
IP addresses.  As an aside, I use DHCP with my Roadrunner cable and have
been getting the same IP address since day 1.  DHCP, at least under Linux,
stores your previous IP address and requests it the next time you connect.
If it is available, it is used.  Otherwise, you get a new one.  Thus, DHCP
tends to be very stable if you leave your computer on for long periods as
I do.

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Janina Sajka]

I've never seen anything like it. It seems, though, that they mean to do
things this way, because she was successful using scp to copy a kernel
rpm from my system. That worked, but ftp didn't. 

I'm having her call and ask questions tomorrow. Hopefully, she can just
get a static IP for a few dollars extra.


Andrew Hodgson writes:
> Janina Sajka in <20030629204637.GC24435@rednote.net>:
> >It's the way her ISP changes the ip address every minute or so. I'm not
> >kidding--I've had her do an ifconfig ppp0 and we get a different address
> >every minute or so.
> 
> This would cause a problem as the system will kick you off updating
> the hostname ip address every minute.  Are you sure this is not an
> isp/configuration problem at her end?  If it really is changing every
> minute, there are serious problems (i.e, how to download large files).

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Janina Sajka]

We used the adsl-setup script to configure the ppp0 device. During that
process, she put in her username and password for the ISP, which is
Earth Link, by the way. 

She definitely connects. She's successfully ssh'd to my system, and
scp'd files from me. I managed to ssh over there once--but then the
session went dead after about a minute.

So, I had her issue :

ifconfig ppp0 |grep inet

several times, about a minute apart. We had a different address every
time.

I supposeit's a kind of security thing, but it sure makes the kinds of
things we here do to help each other out, especially for newbies, very
dificult. Also, it seems to bemucking with ftp and possibly Real Audio.


Adam Myrow writes:
> From: Adam Myrow <amyrow@midsouth.rr.com>
> 
> As I understand it, PPPOE works much like dial-up.  That is, it requires a
> username and password before connecting you.  It then gets a dynamic IP
> address and stays with that address until you disconnect.  I'm wondering
> if perhaps the user of PPPOE is disconnecting every few minutes or if the
> ISP is kicking him off?  As long as he's connected, he should not change
> IP addresses.  As an aside, I use DHCP with my Roadrunner cable and have
> been getting the same IP address since day 1.  DHCP, at least under Linux,
> stores your previous IP address and requests it the next time you connect.
> If it is available, it is used.  Otherwise, you get a new one.  Thus, DHCP
> tends to be very stable if you leave your computer on for long periods as
> I do.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Janina Sajka]

I would have thought exactly the same thing, except that I've just spent
a few hours having her do the file copying using scp from my system. We
upgraded her kernel, and we installed alsa. All of these files had to be
downloaded by scp. She was never kicked off, and the file transfers went
through without a hitch.

Darrell Shandrow writes:
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> 
> Hi Janina,
> 
> Unfortunately, it would seem your friend may have a bigger problem than just
> the practical inability to use a service like dyndns for consistent domain
> name resolution.  Each time a device's IP address changes, any TCP sessions
> or UDP streams will cease to function.  They will have to be re-established
> using the new IP address.  Does your friend complain of constant "loss of
> connectivity" or similar networking issues despite using a "always on" DSL
> service?
> 
> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>; <ma-linux@rednote.net>
> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 1:07 PM
> Subject: This DHCP is too dynamic
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to help a friend. I have an account on her system, but her
> > ISP seems to change her IP about once a minute.
> >
> > Aside from my curiosity about how they could make such a thing work, is
> > there anything I can do to stabalize her on a single address?
> >
> > I've never seen anything like this, but then I have no experience with
> > pppoe, either.
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Janina,

Perhaps she should take this up with her ISP, especially if it is negatively
impacting uses of the service which are not outside their acceptable use
policy.  If she really wants to run a server, she may want to get an ISP
that does not disallow this.

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: This DHCP is too dynamic


> We used the adsl-setup script to configure the ppp0 device. During that
> process, she put in her username and password for the ISP, which is
> Earth Link, by the way.
>
> She definitely connects. She's successfully ssh'd to my system, and
> scp'd files from me. I managed to ssh over there once--but then the
> session went dead after about a minute.
>
> So, I had her issue :
>
> ifconfig ppp0 |grep inet
>
> several times, about a minute apart. We had a different address every
> time.
>
> I supposeit's a kind of security thing, but it sure makes the kinds of
> things we here do to help each other out, especially for newbies, very
> dificult. Also, it seems to bemucking with ftp and possibly Real Audio.
>
>
> Adam Myrow writes:
> > From: Adam Myrow <amyrow@midsouth.rr.com>
> >
> > As I understand it, PPPOE works much like dial-up.  That is, it requires
a
> > username and password before connecting you.  It then gets a dynamic IP
> > address and stays with that address until you disconnect.  I'm wondering
> > if perhaps the user of PPPOE is disconnecting every few minutes or if
the
> > ISP is kicking him off?  As long as he's connected, he should not change
> > IP addresses.  As an aside, I use DHCP with my Roadrunner cable and have
> > been getting the same IP address since day 1.  DHCP, at least under
Linux,
> > stores your previous IP address and requests it the next time you
connect.
> > If it is available, it is used.  Otherwise, you get a new one.  Thus,
DHCP
> > tends to be very stable if you leave your computer on for long periods
as
> > I do.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Janina Sajka]

Yeah. That's just exactly where we leftit. She's going to call them
tomorrow and ask about this. It's not so much that she wants to run a
server as that I can help her better if I can log in and tweak a thing
or two from time to time.

I brought this to the list because I've never dealt with pppoe before. I
didn't know if it was me or Memorex! <grin>


Darrell Shandrow writes:
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> 
> Hi Janina,
> 
> Perhaps she should take this up with her ISP, especially if it is negatively
> impacting uses of the service which are not outside their acceptable use
> policy.  If she really wants to run a server, she may want to get an ISP
> that does not disallow this.
> 
> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 3:50 PM
> Subject: Re: This DHCP is too dynamic
> 
> 
> > We used the adsl-setup script to configure the ppp0 device. During that
> > process, she put in her username and password for the ISP, which is
> > Earth Link, by the way.
> >
> > She definitely connects. She's successfully ssh'd to my system, and
> > scp'd files from me. I managed to ssh over there once--but then the
> > session went dead after about a minute.
> >
> > So, I had her issue :
> >
> > ifconfig ppp0 |grep inet
> >
> > several times, about a minute apart. We had a different address every
> > time.
> >
> > I supposeit's a kind of security thing, but it sure makes the kinds of
> > things we here do to help each other out, especially for newbies, very
> > dificult. Also, it seems to bemucking with ftp and possibly Real Audio.
> >
> >
> > Adam Myrow writes:
> > > From: Adam Myrow <amyrow@midsouth.rr.com>
> > >
> > > As I understand it, PPPOE works much like dial-up.  That is, it requires
> a
> > > username and password before connecting you.  It then gets a dynamic IP
> > > address and stays with that address until you disconnect.  I'm wondering
> > > if perhaps the user of PPPOE is disconnecting every few minutes or if
> the
> > > ISP is kicking him off?  As long as he's connected, he should not change
> > > IP addresses.  As an aside, I use DHCP with my Roadrunner cable and have
> > > been getting the same IP address since day 1.  DHCP, at least under
> Linux,
> > > stores your previous IP address and requests it the next time you
> connect.
> > > If it is available, it is used.  Otherwise, you get a new one.  Thus,
> DHCP
> > > tends to be very stable if you leave your computer on for long periods
> as
> > > I do.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Diana Dawne]

Hi everyone.  I do not understand the ins and outs of PPPOE but I do know 
that I have it.  I use a router my computer remains on generally butmy 
computer has been turned off several times but the router holds the ip so 
that when I log back on my ip seems to remain the same.

Diana

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[dlawlor]

On my ISP PPPOE will pass me a new ip address every time I reconnect to 
the PPPOE consentrator.  

Doug


-- 
Make sure your E-mail can be read by everyone!
http://www.betips.net/etc/evilmail.html

Doug Lawlor <dlawlor@warp.nfld.net>

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Tommy Moore]

On Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 09:16:36PM +0100, Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> Sign her up for a dynamic dns hostname <www.dyndns.org> are very good,
> and the Linux clients work very well, run as a daemon etc.  The
> service is free, and you refer to her box via myname.dyndns.org and
> then if they have the correct a record assigned to that hostname then
> you can connect.  The clients can be configured (i.e, how often to
> update dyndns records etc).

Good idea Andrew, but this isn't really going to work for a couple of reasons.
One is that the dns places usually only let a client update at most every 5 to 10 minutes or so.
The other reason is even if she is able to connect to the remote computer her connection will hang after a minute or two because the machine has changed its ip address.

That's an interesting way to kep someone from running a server on your network, but then again if the ip changes so often than what do you do when downloading a large file?  How would you keep the ip from changing on you during the transfer?

Tommy

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Tommy Moore]

On Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 06:50:40PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> We used the adsl-setup script to configure the ppp0 device. During that
> process, she put in her username and password for the ISP, which is
> Earth Link, by the way. 
> 
> She definitely connects. She's successfully ssh'd to my system, and
> scp'd files from me. I managed to ssh over there once--but then the
> session went dead after about a minute.
> 
> So, I had her issue :
> 
> ifconfig ppp0 |grep inet
> 
> several times, about a minute apart. We had a different address every
> time.

Have her send you her /var/log/messages file.
The most likely thing that's occuring is that the pppd keeps disconnecting nad reconnecting.

Tommy

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[White, Matt]

Using a router would definitely help in this situation; I suspect that
PPPD is disconnecting when activity drops or at a specified time.  A
router would maintain the connection and provide a level of security.

You could, of course, fix PPPD too...

Matt

<quote who="Diana Dawne">
> Hi everyone.  I do not understand the ins and outs of PPPOE but I do
> know  that I have it.  I use a router my computer remains on generally
> butmy  computer has been turned off several times but the router holds
> the ip so  that when I log back on my ip seems to remain the same.
>
> Diana
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


-- 
Matt B. White
Tel: 508.969.2836

Re: This DHCP is too dynamic

[Janina Sajka]

Tommy Moore writes:
> From: Tommy Moore <tmoore@cmrc.org>
> 
> Have her send you her /var/log/messages file.
> The most likely thing that's occuring is that the pppd keeps disconnecting nad reconnecting.
>
Yeah, I don't know why I didn't thing to grab the logs. I'll get them
the next time I work with her.

I should say that the adsl-setup script specifically asks whether you
want to maintain the connection or establish one on demand. We selected
the former, so I didn't assumed the script was as good as it's prompt.
Silly me to assume.

				Janina


> Tommy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175