online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Cheryl Homiak]

Here's what I just got when I tried to sign in to online banking. it's a
little puzzling because I am using ssl, and I though that met the
encryption requirements.
This was with lynx the cat. with links the chain it was even worse; I
never even
got to try to log in because where it said to sign in after I put in my id
and passcode, links the chain had no link (pun intended).
Am I missing something on the site or has anybody using online banking
been doing it with Windows? Ironically, the application process is
accessible. It really won't ruin banking for me at Bank of america, as I
can use the phone and I'm getting my braille statements etc., but it is
disappointing.

What I got at attempt to log in with lynx the cat:
   Bank of America Higher Standards Online Banking

   Unsupported Browser

   To provide maximum security and protection, Bank of America requires
   that you use a browser that supports 128-bit encryption.

   We have determined that you are using lynx Version 2.8.5dev.16.

   In order to use Online Banking, you will need to use or download
   another browser.

   You can download a new browser for free from either the Netscape or
   Microsoft. For your convenience click on the appropriate link below to
   download a web browser. Once you have installed the new browser you'll
   be ready to use Online Banking.

   Please note: Bank of America does not recommend the use of beta or
   test browsers with Online Banking.


Cheryl

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Shaun Oliver]

[-- Attachment #1: msg.pgp --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 611 bytes --]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

looks like they're just validating based on useragent string
change the user agent string and I bet it don't bitch about it.
hth

- -- 
Shaun Oliver


"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
WEB: http://blindman.homelinux.org/
IRC: irc.awesomechat.net:6666
IRCNICK: blindman
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQFAGzgJ67hYtcFGIIcRArtYAJ9rEZZAR0z3BMAd0gEGD1tdHx15XgCfbdr3
yXgmz2uwWE3zZrjJ4t2LtnI=
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Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Cheryl Homiak]

This has come up for discussion several times, and I'm sorry if I'm being
hopelessly dense, but I've never figured out to what I should change the
user agent string. Can somebody attempt (once again--sorry) to clarify
this for me?
Thanks.

-- 
Cheryl

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Janina Sajka]

The old classic solution to this bit of browserism is simply to lie. In
lynx, and possibly in links, there is a "masquerading as" setting, where
you can define the identification string that will be supplied to t with
your http connection. So, you can pretend to be any browser they want!

Now, what actual strings we need to put in there is something I no
longer know off the top of my head. Perhaps we can set up some tests
among us over the next few days and collect some good lies??

Cheryl Homiak writes:
> From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> 
> This has come up for discussion several times, and I'm sorry if I'm being
> hopelessly dense, but I've never figured out to what I should change the
> user agent string. Can somebody attempt (once again--sorry) to clarify
> this for me?
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Cheryl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.  I have the following 2 links to sights that list user agent-strings
for browsers.

http://www.mozilla.org/build/user-agent-strings.html
http://www.mozilla.org/build/revised-user-agent-strings.html

The first link has some background, but is obsolete.  The second link
is the latest version I know about.

Hope this helps.
          Kenny

On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 11:15:32AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> The old classic solution to this bit of browserism is simply to lie. In
> lynx, and possibly in links, there is a "masquerading as" setting, where
> you can define the identification string that will be supplied to t with
> your http connection. So, you can pretend to be any browser they want!
> 
> Now, what actual strings we need to put in there is something I no
> longer know off the top of my head. Perhaps we can set up some tests
> among us over the next few days and collect some good lies??
> 
> Cheryl Homiak writes:
> > From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> > 
> > This has come up for discussion several times, and I'm sorry if I'm being
> > hopelessly dense, but I've never figured out to what I should change the
> > user agent string. Can somebody attempt (once again--sorry) to clarify
> > this for me?
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Cheryl
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 	
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net		
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
> 
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Cheryl Homiak]

Thanks.
Saw this in google but hadn't looked at it yet.



-- 
Cheryl

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Scott Berry]

I would try a string either similar to ie or even Mozilla might actually
do the trick.  Not sure but just guessing here.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Janina
Sajka wrote:

> The old classic solution to this bit of browserism is simply to lie. In
> lynx, and possibly in links, there is a "masquerading as" setting, where
> you can define the identification string that will be supplied to t with
> your http connection. So, you can pretend to be any browser they want!
>
> Now, what actual strings we need to put in there is something I no
> longer know off the top of my head. Perhaps we can set up some tests
> among us over the next few days and collect some good lies??
>
> Cheryl Homiak writes:
> > From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> >
> > This has come up for discussion several times, and I'm sorry if I'm being
> > hopelessly dense, but I've never figured out to what I should change the
> > user agent string. Can somebody attempt (once again--sorry) to clarify
> > this for me?
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Cheryl
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Cheryl Homiak]

Yes, scott, you are right, but I don't know those strings since I don't
have Windows.


-- 
Cheryl

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Scott Berry]

You know what I am not using Windows either.  I went totally to Linux
myself.  I just remember it from my use of Windows.On Sat, 31 Jan 2004,
Cheryl Homiak wrote:

> Yes, scott, you are right, but I don't know those strings since I don't
> have Windows.
>
>
> --
> Cheryl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

User agent

[Cheryl Homiak]

I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see a --useragent=.
but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put other
info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed, but
i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the encryption
is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
Thanks.



-- 
Cheryl

Re: User agent

[Janina Sajka]

Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
them:

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)

Now, where you put one of these:

Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
the options screens.

One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
strings in with the Speakup clipboard.

If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
Speakup clipboard, as above.

Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
whichever of the strings you put in.

PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
permanent thing, unless you really want to.

Cheryl Homiak writes:
> From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> 
> I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see a --useragent=.
> but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put other
> info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed, but
> i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the encryption
> is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheryl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: User agent

[David Poehlman]

Ah, The .lynxrc file was there all the time, I brought it up in note pad
though and it looed rather scrambled.  I guess something doesn't honor new
lines or maybe that is what the # is for.  At any rate, I found no user
agent string or a place for one.  I'm now off to find the lynx.cfg file if I
have one.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: User agent


Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
them:

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
CLR 1.1.4322)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)

Now, where you put one of these:

Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
the options screens.

One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
strings in with the Speakup clipboard.

If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
Speakup clipboard, as above.

Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
whichever of the strings you put in.

PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
permanent thing, unless you really want to.

Cheryl Homiak writes:
> From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
>
> I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see a --useragent=.
> but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put other
> info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed, but
> i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the encryption
> is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheryl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: User agent

[Janina Sajka]

It looked scrambled because unixish systems only terminate lines with
Ctrl-J, whereas DOS/Windows requires CtrlJ plus Ctrl-M. Macintosh, by
the way, only uses Ctrl-M Since Notepad is so stupid (and you insist on
continuing to use it), covert it first with:

unix2dos [filename]

When you're done:

dos2unix [filename]

But, why aren't you just editing from the command line with vim, or
emacs, or nano, or something?

David Poehlman writes:
> From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
> 
> Ah, The .lynxrc file was there all the time, I brought it up in note pad
> though and it looed rather scrambled.  I guess something doesn't honor new
> lines or maybe that is what the # is for.  At any rate, I found no user
> agent string or a place for one.  I'm now off to find the lynx.cfg file if I
> have one.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: User agent
> 
> 
> Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
> they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
> them:
> 
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)
> 
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
> CLR 1.1.4322)
> 
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)
> 
> Now, where you put one of these:
> 
> Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
> lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
> the options screens.
> 
> One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
> agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
> an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
> strings in with the Speakup clipboard.
> 
> If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
> the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
> you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
> Speakup clipboard, as above.
> 
> Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
> by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
> whichever of the strings you put in.
> 
> PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
> permanent thing, unless you really want to.
> 
> Cheryl Homiak writes:
> > From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> >
> > I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see a --useragent=.
> > but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> > instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put other
> > info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> > I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> > that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> > browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed, but
> > i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> > command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the encryption
> > is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> > suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Cheryl
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
> 
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: User agent

[Gregory Nowak]

Actually, the correct sequence is Ctrl-M plus Ctrl-J as opposed to the
other way around.

Greg


On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 09:33:49AM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> It looked scrambled because unixish systems only terminate lines with
> Ctrl-J, whereas DOS/Windows requires CtrlJ plus Ctrl-M. Macintosh, by
> the way, only uses Ctrl-M Since Notepad is so stupid (and you insist on
> continuing to use it), covert it first with:
> 
> unix2dos [filename]
> 
> When you're done:
> 
> dos2unix [filename]
> 
> But, why aren't you just editing from the command line with vim, or
> emacs, or nano, or something?
> 

-- 
Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org

Re: User agent

[David Poehlman]

well, it's either that or word pad or I could use pico for windows.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: User agent


It looked scrambled because unixish systems only terminate lines with
Ctrl-J, whereas DOS/Windows requires CtrlJ plus Ctrl-M. Macintosh, by
the way, only uses Ctrl-M Since Notepad is so stupid (and you insist on
continuing to use it), covert it first with:

unix2dos [filename]

When you're done:

dos2unix [filename]

But, why aren't you just editing from the command line with vim, or
emacs, or nano, or something?

David Poehlman writes:
> From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
>
> Ah, The .lynxrc file was there all the time, I brought it up in note pad
> though and it looed rather scrambled.  I guess something doesn't honor new
> lines or maybe that is what the # is for.  At any rate, I found no user
> agent string or a place for one.  I'm now off to find the lynx.cfg file if
I
> have one.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: User agent
>
>
> Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
> they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
> them:
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
> CLR 1.1.4322)
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)
>
> Now, where you put one of these:
>
> Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
> lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
> the options screens.
>
> One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
> agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
> an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
> strings in with the Speakup clipboard.
>
> If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
> the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
> you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
> Speakup clipboard, as above.
>
> Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
> by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
> whichever of the strings you put in.
>
> PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
> permanent thing, unless you really want to.
>
> Cheryl Homiak writes:
> > From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> >
> > I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see
a --useragent=.
> > but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> > instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put
other
> > info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> > I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> > that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> > browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed,
but
> > i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> > command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the
encryption
> > is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> > suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Cheryl
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: User agent

[David Poehlman]

I don't use a command line editor because ssh does not allow me to track it.
It doesn't matter what app I use.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: User agent


It looked scrambled because unixish systems only terminate lines with
Ctrl-J, whereas DOS/Windows requires CtrlJ plus Ctrl-M. Macintosh, by
the way, only uses Ctrl-M Since Notepad is so stupid (and you insist on
continuing to use it), covert it first with:

unix2dos [filename]

When you're done:

dos2unix [filename]

But, why aren't you just editing from the command line with vim, or
emacs, or nano, or something?

David Poehlman writes:
> From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
>
> Ah, The .lynxrc file was there all the time, I brought it up in note pad
> though and it looed rather scrambled.  I guess something doesn't honor new
> lines or maybe that is what the # is for.  At any rate, I found no user
> agent string or a place for one.  I'm now off to find the lynx.cfg file if
I
> have one.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: User agent
>
>
> Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
> they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
> them:
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
> CLR 1.1.4322)
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)
>
> Now, where you put one of these:
>
> Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
> lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
> the options screens.
>
> One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
> agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
> an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
> strings in with the Speakup clipboard.
>
> If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
> the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
> you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
> Speakup clipboard, as above.
>
> Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
> by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
> whichever of the strings you put in.
>
> PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
> permanent thing, unless you really want to.
>
> Cheryl Homiak writes:
> > From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> >
> > I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see
a --useragent=.
> > but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> > instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put
other
> > info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> > I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> > that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> > browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed,
but
> > i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> > command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the
encryption
> > is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> > suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Cheryl
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

editing

[Raul A. Gallegos]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I can track things just fine with securecrt if I'm on my windows box.  
And of course just use speakup from the console. Nano is real good and 
easy to use but I personally love vim.


David Poehlman said the following on Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 11:45:33AM -0500:
> I don't use a command line editor because ssh does not allow me to track it.
> It doesn't matter what app I use.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAHTClas0vKmIuNMcRAgxNAKC2jooHFrX33q0kNg7Ofcd3C+cnfACbBDFV
qzS0rx4Bphf37DVPPDhNrKg=
=tzJu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: editing

[David Poehlman]

I should quallify this.  I can do ok in most cases but for some reason, the
editing lines of lynx options does not work for me.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 12:00 PM
Subject: editing


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I can track things just fine with securecrt if I'm on my windows box.
And of course just use speakup from the console. Nano is real good and
easy to use but I personally love vim.


David Poehlman said the following on Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 11:45:33AM -0500:
> I don't use a command line editor because ssh does not allow me to track
it.
> It doesn't matter what app I use.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAHTClas0vKmIuNMcRAgxNAKC2jooHFrX33q0kNg7Ofcd3C+cnfACbBDFV
qzS0rx4Bphf37DVPPDhNrKg=
=tzJu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: editing

[David Poehlman]

I got pico for windows to work, but cannot see an user agent string in the
lynxrc file.  Still fishing.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: editing


I should quallify this.  I can do ok in most cases but for some reason, the
editing lines of lynx options does not work for me.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 12:00 PM
Subject: editing


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I can track things just fine with securecrt if I'm on my windows box.
And of course just use speakup from the console. Nano is real good and
easy to use but I personally love vim.


David Poehlman said the following on Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 11:45:33AM -0500:
> I don't use a command line editor because ssh does not allow me to track
it.
> It doesn't matter what app I use.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAHTClas0vKmIuNMcRAgxNAKC2jooHFrX33q0kNg7Ofcd3C+cnfACbBDFV
qzS0rx4Bphf37DVPPDhNrKg=
=tzJu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: editing

[Raul A. Gallegos]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Try this from Lynx and you will see the difference.

$ lynx www.asmodean.net

And then try:

$ lynx -useragent='Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)' 
www.asmodean.net

You will see the difference in the web page as it displays the useragent 
string.



David Poehlman said the following on Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 12:50:48PM -0500:
> I got pico for windows to work, but cannot see an user agent string in the
> lynxrc file.  Still fishing.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAHUUUas0vKmIuNMcRAmXGAKDNy35AAMJYeZkE59wEShD0y+XhHgCcC7Xk
fCByo2JOSxxZcjDY046AYyA=
=s0ox
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: User agent

[David Poehlman]

can I just tack the user agent equals followed by the string onto the end of
the .lynxrc file?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: User agent


Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
them:

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
CLR 1.1.4322)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)

Now, where you put one of these:

Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
the options screens.

One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
strings in with the Speakup clipboard.

If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
Speakup clipboard, as above.

Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
whichever of the strings you put in.

PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
permanent thing, unless you really want to.

Cheryl Homiak writes:
> From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
>
> I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see a --useragent=.
> but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put other
> info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed, but
> i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the encryption
> is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheryl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: User agent

[Janina Sajka]

Don't know. Try it. What's to lose?


David Poehlman writes:
> From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
> 
> can I just tack the user agent equals followed by the string onto the end of
> the .lynxrc file?
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: User agent
> 
> 
> Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
> they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
> them:
> 
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)
> 
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
> CLR 1.1.4322)
> 
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)
> 
> Now, where you put one of these:
> 
> Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
> lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
> the options screens.
> 
> One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
> agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
> an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
> strings in with the Speakup clipboard.
> 
> If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
> the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
> you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
> Speakup clipboard, as above.
> 
> Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
> by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
> whichever of the strings you put in.
> 
> PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
> permanent thing, unless you really want to.
> 
> Cheryl Homiak writes:
> > From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> >
> > I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see a --useragent=.
> > but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> > instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put other
> > info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> > I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> > that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> > browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed, but
> > i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> > command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the encryption
> > is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> > suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Cheryl
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
> 
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
> 
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: User agent

[Cheryl Homiak]

You might want to check your lynx.cfg before you put user agent in your
.lynxrc.
At least in mine, 8.5dev16, there's a line in the lynx.cfg that appears to
turn user agent in the .lynxrc on and off.
Here's the line:
#ENABLE_LYNXRC:useragent:OFF

I assume you would want it uncommented and changed to on.

-- 
Cheryl

Re: User agent

[David Poehlman]

ok, Thanks!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: User agent


You might want to check your lynx.cfg before you put user agent in your
.lynxrc.
At least in mine, 8.5dev16, there's a line in the lynx.cfg that appears to
turn user agent in the .lynxrc on and off.
Here's the line:
#ENABLE_LYNXRC:useragent:OFF

I assume you would want it uncommented and changed to on.

-- 
Cheryl


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: User agent

[Sean McMahon]

Depending on the place you're visiting, you might be able to place it oon
the address line
Sean
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: User agent


> can I just tack the user agent equals followed by the string onto the end
of
> the .lynxrc file?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
> Subject: Re: User agent
>
>
> Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
> they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
> them:
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
> CLR 1.1.4322)
>
> Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)
>
> Now, where you put one of these:
>
> Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
> lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
> the options screens.
>
> One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
> agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
> an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
> strings in with the Speakup clipboard.
>
> If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
> the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
> you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
> Speakup clipboard, as above.
>
> Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
> by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
> whichever of the strings you put in.
>
> PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
> permanent thing, unless you really want to.
>
> Cheryl Homiak writes:
> > From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
> >
> > I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see
a --useragent=.
> > but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> > instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put
other
> > info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> > I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> > that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> > browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed,
but
> > i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> > command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the
encryption
> > is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> > suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Cheryl
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

comcast:

[David Poehlman]

http://www.comcast.net/comcast.html/
is where you eventually wind up when you access comcast.net.  I find no log
in with lynx although I do find one with ie.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: User agent


Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
them:

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
CLR 1.1.4322)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)

Now, where you put one of these:

Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
the options screens.

One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
strings in with the Speakup clipboard.

If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
Speakup clipboard, as above.

Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
whichever of the strings you put in.

PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
permanent thing, unless you really want to.

Cheryl Homiak writes:
> From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
>
> I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see a --useragent=.
> but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put other
> info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed, but
> i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the encryption
> is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheryl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

comcast:

[David Poehlman]

http://www.comcast.net/comcast.html/
is where you eventually wind up when you access comcast.net.  I find no log
in with lynx although I do find one with ie.

Re: comcast:

[Janina Sajka]

I don't know why, David. I see it plain as day.

David Poehlman writes:
> From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.comcast.net/comcast.html/
> is where you eventually wind up when you access comcast.net.  I find no log
> in with lynx although I do find one with ie.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: User agent

[David Poehlman]

I got mine working yesterday with a lot of help.  Bank of america indeed
works fine with something other than ie and netscape.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: User agent


Earlier today, three folks here posted strings that can be used. Here
they are, separated by blank lines, just in case, so you know what's in
them:

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET
CLR 1.1.4322)

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461)

Now, where you put one of these:

Do o for options. From here on it depends on how you've configured your
lynx browser, because there are, I think, three different interfaces to
the options screens.

One of them is an actual web page interface. You're looking for "user
agent." When you find it you'll see the lynx version designation. It's
an edit field, so just clear it out with Ctrl-u and put one of the above
strings in with the Speakup clipboard.

If you have the older (and my preferred) single-char command interface,
the "user agent" selection is performed with the capital A. This takes
you to an edit field that you clear with Ctrl-u and then fill from the
Speakup clipboard, as above.

Once you do this, just do left arrow to return to lynx. Test your work
by going to Raul's web page. It should tell you that you're using
whichever of the strings you put in.

PS: You can also edit your .lynxrc, but there's no reason to make this a
permanent thing, unless you really want to.

Cheryl Homiak writes:
> From: Cheryl Homiak <chomiak@charter.net>
>
> I don't see a masquerade-as in my lynx help, but Ii do see a --useragent=.
> but I'm not sure how to format it or how much I have to put in. for
> instance, can I just have something like MSIE6.0 or do I have to put other
> info in and if so do i leave spaces or use colons or what?
> I did try MSIE6.0 for starters; both the asmodean site and BOA listed
> that as what I had but BOA still said I needed to download another
> browser. I did read the useragent info on the website that was listed, but
> i still didn't really understand how to format something on the lynx
> command line. Of course, BOA could also be picking up that the encryption
> is different (192 bit as I believe Janina points out in her letter) I
> suppose. But the encryption is definitely there.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheryl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 

Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

faking your browser

[Raul A. Gallegos]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

If you visit http://www.asmodean.net I have a visit.cgi script which 
runs and displays your IP address as well as the supposed browser you 
are using.  If you do make some tests you can at least use that page to 
see what it thinks you are using for a browser.


Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 11:15:32AM -0500:
> The old classic solution to this bit of browserism is simply to lie. In
> lynx, and possibly in links, there is a "masquerading as" setting, where
> you can define the identification string that will be supplied to t with
> your http connection. So, you can pretend to be any browser they want!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAG+Odas0vKmIuNMcRAoWTAKCb7GIvtnFT4YVVP8+Jk8EpOKRIpgCgkU/k
qR6j/wzsv5i50f0dqWGdmM0=
=biVm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: faking your browser

[Janina Sajka]

Awesome, Raul! So, what we need now is for some of our friends who have
"up to date" Windows browsers to log onto your page and report back to
the list the exact user agent string. Then, we'll have some good
candidates to stuff into the "masquerade as" option.


Raul A. Gallegos writes:
> From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net>
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> If you visit http://www.asmodean.net I have a visit.cgi script which 
> runs and displays your IP address as well as the supposed browser you 
> are using.  If you do make some tests you can at least use that page to 
> see what it thinks you are using for a browser.
> 
> 
> Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 11:15:32AM -0500:
> > The old classic solution to this bit of browserism is simply to lie. In
> > lynx, and possibly in links, there is a "masquerading as" setting, where
> > you can define the identification string that will be supplied to t with
> > your http connection. So, you can pretend to be any browser they want!
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFAG+Odas0vKmIuNMcRAoWTAKCb7GIvtnFT4YVVP8+Jk8EpOKRIpgCgkU/k
> qR6j/wzsv5i50f0dqWGdmM0=
> =biVm
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: faking your browser

[Raul A. Gallegos]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

When I ggo there from my xp-pro machine I get:

using Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1).


When I go from my Debian Linux box using lynx I get:

using Lynx/2.8.4rel.1 libwww-FM/2.14 SSL-MM/1.4.1 OpenSSL/0.9.6c.
   


Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 12:41:46PM -0500:
> Awesome, Raul! So, what we need now is for some of our friends who have
> "up to date" Windows browsers to log onto your page and report back to
> the list the exact user agent string. Then, we'll have some good
> candidates to stuff into the "masquerade as" option.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAG+s4as0vKmIuNMcRArDfAJ99RCy2MIQtJO+MHFPnVBeJf3w8swCgo671
6ncDC7j4KRWvnTHhLFGhGuo=
=B2dd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re: faking your browser

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Janina,

Here you go; I run IE 6:
Welcome lt.shandrow.com (206.124.184.78)
using Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705;
.NET CLR 1.1.4322).


Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: faking your browser


> Awesome, Raul! So, what we need now is for some of our friends who have
> "up to date" Windows browsers to log onto your page and report back to
> the list the exact user agent string. Then, we'll have some good
> candidates to stuff into the "masquerade as" option.
>
>
> Raul A. Gallegos writes:
> > From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net>
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > If you visit http://www.asmodean.net I have a visit.cgi script which
> > runs and displays your IP address as well as the supposed browser you
> > are using.  If you do make some tests you can at least use that page to
> > see what it thinks you are using for a browser.
> >
> >
> > Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at
11:15:32AM -0500:
> > > The old classic solution to this bit of browserism is simply to lie.
In
> > > lynx, and possibly in links, there is a "masquerading as" setting,
where
> > > you can define the identification string that will be supplied to t
with
> > > your http connection. So, you can pretend to be any browser they want!
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQFAG+Odas0vKmIuNMcRAoWTAKCb7GIvtnFT4YVVP8+Jk8EpOKRIpgCgkU/k
> > qR6j/wzsv5i50f0dqWGdmM0=
> > =biVm
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: faking your browser

[David Poehlman]

great, Mine is:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; Q312461).
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul@asmodean.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: faking your browser


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

If you visit http://www.asmodean.net I have a visit.cgi script which 
runs and displays your IP address as well as the supposed browser you 
are using.  If you do make some tests you can at least use that page to 
see what it thinks you are using for a browser.


Janina Sajka said the following on Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 11:15:32AM -0500:
> The old classic solution to this bit of browserism is simply to lie. In
> lynx, and possibly in links, there is a "masquerading as" setting, where
> you can define the identification string that will be supplied to t with
> your http connection. So, you can pretend to be any browser they want!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFAG+Odas0vKmIuNMcRAoWTAKCb7GIvtnFT4YVVP8+Jk8EpOKRIpgCgkU/k
qR6j/wzsv5i50f0dqWGdmM0=
=biVm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Cheryl Homiak]

That would be great. I also think I should try to get hold of somebody
appropriate at BOA still.

-- 
Cheryl

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Janina Sajka wrote:

> The old classic solution to this bit of browserism is simply to lie. In
> lynx, and possibly in links, there is a "masquerading as" setting, where
> you can define the identification string that will be supplied to t with
> your http connection. So, you can pretend to be any browser they want!
>
> Now, what actual strings we need to put in there is something I no
> longer know off the top of my head. Perhaps we can set up some tests
> among us over the next few days and collect some good lies??

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[David Poehlman]

If anyone is in regular touch with these people, they need to know that they
need to work on their insulting statement.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
To: "speakup" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:46 PM
Subject: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough


Here's what I just got when I tried to sign in to online banking. it's a
little puzzling because I am using ssl, and I though that met the
encryption requirements.
This was with lynx the cat. with links the chain it was even worse; I
never even
got to try to log in because where it said to sign in after I put in my id
and passcode, links the chain had no link (pun intended).
Am I missing something on the site or has anybody using online banking
been doing it with Windows? Ironically, the application process is
accessible. It really won't ruin banking for me at Bank of america, as I
can use the phone and I'm getting my braille statements etc., but it is
disappointing.

What I got at attempt to log in with lynx the cat:
   Bank of America Higher Standards Online Banking

   Unsupported Browser

   To provide maximum security and protection, Bank of America requires
   that you use a browser that supports 128-bit encryption.

   We have determined that you are using lynx Version 2.8.5dev.16.

   In order to use Online Banking, you will need to use or download
   another browser.

   You can download a new browser for free from either the Netscape or
   Microsoft. For your convenience click on the appropriate link below to
   download a web browser. Once you have installed the new browser you'll
   be ready to use Online Banking.

   Please note: Bank of America does not recommend the use of beta or
   test browsers with Online Banking.


Cheryl

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi David,

Unfortunately, pure-text based browsers like Links and Lynx are simply
obsolete.  There's no reasonable expectation that any company should be
forced, in any way, to support such technology.  We must strive to separate
any and all concepts of web accessibility from these obsolete technologies,
as any such link hurts our cause.

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


> If anyone is in regular touch with these people, they need to know that
they
> need to work on their insulting statement.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
> To: "speakup" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:46 PM
> Subject: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough
>
>
> Here's what I just got when I tried to sign in to online banking. it's a
> little puzzling because I am using ssl, and I though that met the
> encryption requirements.
> This was with lynx the cat. with links the chain it was even worse; I
> never even
> got to try to log in because where it said to sign in after I put in my id
> and passcode, links the chain had no link (pun intended).
> Am I missing something on the site or has anybody using online banking
> been doing it with Windows? Ironically, the application process is
> accessible. It really won't ruin banking for me at Bank of america, as I
> can use the phone and I'm getting my braille statements etc., but it is
> disappointing.
>
> What I got at attempt to log in with lynx the cat:
>    Bank of America Higher Standards Online Banking
>
>    Unsupported Browser
>
>    To provide maximum security and protection, Bank of America requires
>    that you use a browser that supports 128-bit encryption.
>
>    We have determined that you are using lynx Version 2.8.5dev.16.
>
>    In order to use Online Banking, you will need to use or download
>    another browser.
>
>    You can download a new browser for free from either the Netscape or
>    Microsoft. For your convenience click on the appropriate link below to
>    download a web browser. Once you have installed the new browser you'll
>    be ready to use Online Banking.
>
>    Please note: Bank of America does not recommend the use of beta or
>    test browsers with Online Banking.
>
>
> Cheryl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[David Poehlman]

Lynx is not obsolete and you are writing on a list full of users of
"obsolete" technology.  There is no reason why services can and should not
be accessible to us just because they don't like the name of our user agent.
If it supports their security, they should permit its use.  Unless they want
to buy computers for us they should not deny us access.  I can understand
this argument perhaps for something that does not support ssl or for
something like a trs 80 which is years old and no longer being improved, but
this is not the case here.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


Hi David,

Unfortunately, pure-text based browsers like Links and Lynx are simply
obsolete.  There's no reasonable expectation that any company should be
forced, in any way, to support such technology.  We must strive to separate
any and all concepts of web accessibility from these obsolete technologies,
as any such link hurts our cause.

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


> If anyone is in regular touch with these people, they need to know that
they
> need to work on their insulting statement.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
> To: "speakup" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:46 PM
> Subject: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough
>
>
> Here's what I just got when I tried to sign in to online banking. it's a
> little puzzling because I am using ssl, and I though that met the
> encryption requirements.
> This was with lynx the cat. with links the chain it was even worse; I
> never even
> got to try to log in because where it said to sign in after I put in my id
> and passcode, links the chain had no link (pun intended).
> Am I missing something on the site or has anybody using online banking
> been doing it with Windows? Ironically, the application process is
> accessible. It really won't ruin banking for me at Bank of america, as I
> can use the phone and I'm getting my braille statements etc., but it is
> disappointing.
>
> What I got at attempt to log in with lynx the cat:
>    Bank of America Higher Standards Online Banking
>
>    Unsupported Browser
>
>    To provide maximum security and protection, Bank of America requires
>    that you use a browser that supports 128-bit encryption.
>
>    We have determined that you are using lynx Version 2.8.5dev.16.
>
>    In order to use Online Banking, you will need to use or download
>    another browser.
>
>    You can download a new browser for free from either the Netscape or
>    Microsoft. For your convenience click on the appropriate link below to
>    download a web browser. Once you have installed the new browser you'll
>    be ready to use Online Banking.
>
>    Please note: Bank of America does not recommend the use of beta or
>    test browsers with Online Banking.
>
>
> Cheryl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Janina Sajka]

iAll right, Darrell, you've thrown down the gauntlet. Now let's hear
some specifics.

What function of the web is unsupportable in text-based browsers?

Please don't answer javascript, because that isn't a function--it's a
technology to implement functions. I'm not asking about any particular
markup technology, I'm asking about functions.

The kinds of functions I'm thinking of include "tracking state," which
is currently not supported in lynx/links, but certainly could be.

And in the case of changing state, it's going to be an issue for blind
users regardless of whether the browser is gui or text-based. We're not
going to be able to do it without relying on taking samples--unless we
try to map the state changes to another medium, such as sone kind of
sonic gestures.

So, what functions can't be supported. You say text is obsolete. Prove
it.

Darrell Shandrow writes:
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> Unfortunately, pure-text based browsers like Links and Lynx are simply
> obsolete.  There's no reasonable expectation that any company should be
> forced, in any way, to support such technology.  We must strive to separate
> any and all concepts of web accessibility from these obsolete technologies,
> as any such link hurts our cause.
> 
> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 7:22 AM
> Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
> enough
> 
> 
> > If anyone is in regular touch with these people, they need to know that
> they
> > need to work on their insulting statement.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
> > To: "speakup" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 11:46 PM
> > Subject: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough
> >
> >
> > Here's what I just got when I tried to sign in to online banking. it's a
> > little puzzling because I am using ssl, and I though that met the
> > encryption requirements.
> > This was with lynx the cat. with links the chain it was even worse; I
> > never even
> > got to try to log in because where it said to sign in after I put in my id
> > and passcode, links the chain had no link (pun intended).
> > Am I missing something on the site or has anybody using online banking
> > been doing it with Windows? Ironically, the application process is
> > accessible. It really won't ruin banking for me at Bank of america, as I
> > can use the phone and I'm getting my braille statements etc., but it is
> > disappointing.
> >
> > What I got at attempt to log in with lynx the cat:
> >    Bank of America Higher Standards Online Banking
> >
> >    Unsupported Browser
> >
> >    To provide maximum security and protection, Bank of America requires
> >    that you use a browser that supports 128-bit encryption.
> >
> >    We have determined that you are using lynx Version 2.8.5dev.16.
> >
> >    In order to use Online Banking, you will need to use or download
> >    another browser.
> >
> >    You can download a new browser for free from either the Netscape or
> >    Microsoft. For your convenience click on the appropriate link below to
> >    download a web browser. Once you have installed the new browser you'll
> >    be ready to use Online Banking.
> >
> >    Please note: Bank of America does not recommend the use of beta or
> >    test browsers with Online Banking.
> >
> >
> > Cheryl
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Cheryl Homiak]

I'm going to try to get hold of somebody in tech support or preferably
directly connected with the web work for Bank of america and point this
out to them. since their concern is purported to be encryption, they need
to be aware that lynx with ssl does not need to be barred from online
banking.



-- 
Cheryl

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[David Poehlman]

Just to make you all aware if you are not already, they state explicitly on
thier sight that they only support netscape and ie.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@charter.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


I'm going to try to get hold of somebody in tech support or preferably
directly connected with the web work for Bank of america and point this
out to them. since their concern is purported to be encryption, they need
to be aware that lynx with ssl does not need to be barred from online
banking.



-- 
Cheryl


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Buddy Brannan]

Hi Darrell,

I couldn't disagree with you more. 

On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 08:32:36AM -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> Unfortunately, pure-text based browsers like Links and Lynx are simply
> obsolete.
On what basis do you say this? Just because they're not in the
mainstream, or what? There are certainly legitimate reasons besides
blindness that one might use a text-only browser. But that's not even
the point, really.

  There's no reasonable expectation that any company should be
> forced, in any way, to support such technology. 

I don't think this is necessarily an issue of forcing anyone to
support obselete technology. The test that the page conducts is
flawed. That certainly *is* cause for concern. While a company perhaps
shouldn't be forced to support "such technology" (and we can disagree
on the merits of that statement), they *should* at least be forced to
make accurate statements and conduct accurate tests. The browser is
neither Netscape nor MSIE; therefore it doesn't support SSL? One does
not follow from the other. What if the browser is Mozilla? What if the
browser is Opera? If what you really mean is "This browser isn't
netscape or Internet Explorer", say so. If you mean "This browser does
not support Javascript", say that. But don't say "This browser
supports SSL" when that statement has not been proved correctly. That
is a legitimate gripe.
 We must strive to separate
> any and all concepts of web accessibility from these obsolete technologies,
> as any such link hurts our cause. 

I don't think insisting on adherance to W3C standards, or at least,
adherance to good, efficient, and universal Web design will hurt our
cause. If we insist on these things, accessibility should follow, if
we insist on accessibility as a part of the standard. IMO we've put up
with sloppy Web design for too long. Web designers have been allowed
to design with form over function and visual appeal over utility for
far too long. The Web is too full of gratuitous flash and gee whiz
effects at the expense of usability, and I don't think that insisting
on utility is a bad thing. Fact is, I would love for you to tell me
why necessarily "modern" browsers are better than "antiquated"
ones...is it because they accept sloppily designed pages? If so,
that's not good enough. Well, we have to deal with sloppily designed
pages, you could say, so we need "modern" browsers to deal with
them. I'd rather have pages that aren't sloppy and don't emphasize
form over function. In fact, I think we should all insist on it. 

-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden 
Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Buddy,

In the specific case of the Bank of America issue, you are all correct.  It
should be fixed to test the proper condition; Lynx can, indeed, support SSL!

In more general terms, however, all I am saying is that it is critical not
to place any unreasonable demands when it comes to accessibility.  W3C
standards are an excellent starting point as they are widely-recognized,
international standards as far as they go.  Web design software should, by
its very function, generate W3C compliant code while the GUI user designs
the pages for their web site.  That could result in minimal-effort or
zero-effort accessibility.

I understand your concerns with emphasizing form over function.  I am hoping
this will, eventually, settle in to something that actually makes good
common sense.  In the meantime, we can, to some extent, obtain
accessibil8ity to some of the content within Flash presentations and other
such elements.

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


> Hi Darrell,
>
> I couldn't disagree with you more.
>
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 08:32:36AM -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Unfortunately, pure-text based browsers like Links and Lynx are simply
> > obsolete.
> On what basis do you say this? Just because they're not in the
> mainstream, or what? There are certainly legitimate reasons besides
> blindness that one might use a text-only browser. But that's not even
> the point, really.
>
>   There's no reasonable expectation that any company should be
> > forced, in any way, to support such technology.
>
> I don't think this is necessarily an issue of forcing anyone to
> support obselete technology. The test that the page conducts is
> flawed. That certainly *is* cause for concern. While a company perhaps
> shouldn't be forced to support "such technology" (and we can disagree
> on the merits of that statement), they *should* at least be forced to
> make accurate statements and conduct accurate tests. The browser is
> neither Netscape nor MSIE; therefore it doesn't support SSL? One does
> not follow from the other. What if the browser is Mozilla? What if the
> browser is Opera? If what you really mean is "This browser isn't
> netscape or Internet Explorer", say so. If you mean "This browser does
> not support Javascript", say that. But don't say "This browser
> supports SSL" when that statement has not been proved correctly. That
> is a legitimate gripe.
>  We must strive to separate
> > any and all concepts of web accessibility from these obsolete
technologies,
> > as any such link hurts our cause.
>
> I don't think insisting on adherance to W3C standards, or at least,
> adherance to good, efficient, and universal Web design will hurt our
> cause. If we insist on these things, accessibility should follow, if
> we insist on accessibility as a part of the standard. IMO we've put up
> with sloppy Web design for too long. Web designers have been allowed
> to design with form over function and visual appeal over utility for
> far too long. The Web is too full of gratuitous flash and gee whiz
> effects at the expense of usability, and I don't think that insisting
> on utility is a bad thing. Fact is, I would love for you to tell me
> why necessarily "modern" browsers are better than "antiquated"
> ones...is it because they accept sloppily designed pages? If so,
> that's not good enough. Well, we have to deal with sloppily designed
> pages, you could say, so we need "modern" browsers to deal with
> them. I'd rather have pages that aren't sloppy and don't emphasize
> form over function. In fact, I think we should all insist on it.
>
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden
> Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
> ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
> http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Janina Sajka]

Yes, Darrell, you are very correct when you say that we should not place
unreasonable demands. I couldn't agree more.

So, is it unreasonable to insist that they actually test for encryption
in order to insure secure communications rather than inferring that
things must be OK if you show up at the door wearing the "right
browser?"

In essence, it seems to me they're actually practicing dangerous
computing, not safe computing, by inferring security from bad data.


Darrell Shandrow writes:
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> 
> Hi Buddy,
> 
> In the specific case of the Bank of America issue, you are all correct.  It
> should be fixed to test the proper condition; Lynx can, indeed, support SSL!
> 
> In more general terms, however, all I am saying is that it is critical not
> to place any unreasonable demands when it comes to accessibility.  W3C
> standards are an excellent starting point as they are widely-recognized,
> international standards as far as they go.  Web design software should, by
> its very function, generate W3C compliant code while the GUI user designs
> the pages for their web site.  That could result in minimal-effort or
> zero-effort accessibility.> 

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Janina,

In the specific example about which we are discussing, well, I couldn't
agree more.  It should be possible to get Bank of America to fix it,
especially if you frame it as a security issue rather than a accessibility
or browser-compatibility issue...

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


> Yes, Darrell, you are very correct when you say that we should not place
> unreasonable demands. I couldn't agree more.
>
> So, is it unreasonable to insist that they actually test for encryption
> in order to insure secure communications rather than inferring that
> things must be OK if you show up at the door wearing the "right
> browser?"
>
> In essence, it seems to me they're actually practicing dangerous
> computing, not safe computing, by inferring security from bad data.
>
>
> Darrell Shandrow writes:
> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> >
> > Hi Buddy,
> >
> > In the specific case of the Bank of America issue, you are all correct.
It
> > should be fixed to test the proper condition; Lynx can, indeed, support
SSL!
> >
> > In more general terms, however, all I am saying is that it is critical
not
> > to place any unreasonable demands when it comes to accessibility.  W3C
> > standards are an excellent starting point as they are widely-recognized,
> > international standards as far as they go.  Web design software should,
by
> > its very function, generate W3C compliant code while the GUI user
designs
> > the pages for their web site.  That could result in minimal-effort or
> > zero-effort accessibility.>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Darrell:

I've already written to Lainey about it. Here's the text of my message
to her where I also included the message from Cheryl:


Hi, Lainey:

Are you able to help me forward the concern described in the attached
email? I'm afraid the issue is sufficiently obscure, technically, to not
make much sense to the first tiers of tech support people. Besides, they
wouldn't be in the position to do anything about it.

The bottom line here is that they're excluding users based on bad
judgement. They've got their log very wrong, technically speaking, and I
can prove it.

If you read the message this woman is getting--which I also get, it
seems very justified--the bank wants you to connect using secure,
encrypted communications channels so that your information can't be
stolen by someone who's eavsdropping. Unfortunately, the way they're
actually determining whether or not the connection is encrypted isn't
accurate and yields false results, as in this instance. Technically
speaking, they're not actually testing for encryption, they're inferring
based on what browser the user is using. My advice to this individual
will be to simply lie--something that one can do with these browsers and
masquerade as Netscape or IE. But, that's not a proper solution.

The truth is that looking at what browser the person is using isn't
going to really tell you whether or not they're practicing safe
computing. As it happens, the old, and now sometimes denigrated text
browser lynx, actually provides twice the level of security available in
Netscape and Internet Explorer. Lynx SSL encryption, to be technical
about it, provides 192-bit encryption, compared to Netscape and IE's
128-bit. In encryption, the higher this number is, the stronger the
encryption is.

Frankly, this isn't much different than denying service to someone
because they wear the wrong clothes. While the users of these browsers
may be a minority, they are a growing minority because of the growing
popularity of Linux even among users who are blind.

The fix is also not difficult or expensive for B of A to implement. But,
it's a decision that obviously needs to be made at a high enough level
inside their IT department.

B of A has been doing an outstanding job of making their extensive on
line services accessible. Every few months I go poke around on their web
pages and I'm always gratified to see more and more services being made
available accessibly. This is making B of A very attractive to potential
customers nationwide. It would be a shame to exclude some of them for
bogus reasons.

Anything you can do would be much appreciated.

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Darrell Shandrow]

Hi Janina,

Very well done, and I hope it gains some positive results.

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


> Hi, Darrell:
>
> I've already written to Lainey about it. Here's the text of my message
> to her where I also included the message from Cheryl:
>
>
> Hi, Lainey:
>
> Are you able to help me forward the concern described in the attached
> email? I'm afraid the issue is sufficiently obscure, technically, to not
> make much sense to the first tiers of tech support people. Besides, they
> wouldn't be in the position to do anything about it.
>
> The bottom line here is that they're excluding users based on bad
> judgement. They've got their log very wrong, technically speaking, and I
> can prove it.
>
> If you read the message this woman is getting--which I also get, it
> seems very justified--the bank wants you to connect using secure,
> encrypted communications channels so that your information can't be
> stolen by someone who's eavsdropping. Unfortunately, the way they're
> actually determining whether or not the connection is encrypted isn't
> accurate and yields false results, as in this instance. Technically
> speaking, they're not actually testing for encryption, they're inferring
> based on what browser the user is using. My advice to this individual
> will be to simply lie--something that one can do with these browsers and
> masquerade as Netscape or IE. But, that's not a proper solution.
>
> The truth is that looking at what browser the person is using isn't
> going to really tell you whether or not they're practicing safe
> computing. As it happens, the old, and now sometimes denigrated text
> browser lynx, actually provides twice the level of security available in
> Netscape and Internet Explorer. Lynx SSL encryption, to be technical
> about it, provides 192-bit encryption, compared to Netscape and IE's
> 128-bit. In encryption, the higher this number is, the stronger the
> encryption is.
>
> Frankly, this isn't much different than denying service to someone
> because they wear the wrong clothes. While the users of these browsers
> may be a minority, they are a growing minority because of the growing
> popularity of Linux even among users who are blind.
>
> The fix is also not difficult or expensive for B of A to implement. But,
> it's a decision that obviously needs to be made at a high enough level
> inside their IT department.
>
> B of A has been doing an outstanding job of making their extensive on
> line services accessible. Every few months I go poke around on their web
> pages and I'm always gratified to see more and more services being made
> available accessibly. This is making B of A very attractive to potential
> customers nationwide. It would be a shame to exclude some of them for
> bogus reasons.
>
> Anything you can do would be much appreciated.
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Janina Sajka]

Thanks, Darrell. I will confess some personal interest as I'm
contemplating switching banks.

Darrell Shandrow writes:
> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
> 
> Hi Janina,
> 
> Very well done, and I hope it gains some positive results.
> 
> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
> enough
> 
> 
> > Hi, Darrell:
> >
> > I've already written to Lainey about it. Here's the text of my message
> > to her where I also included the message from Cheryl:
> >
> >
> > Hi, Lainey:
> >
> > Are you able to help me forward the concern described in the attached
> > email? I'm afraid the issue is sufficiently obscure, technically, to not
> > make much sense to the first tiers of tech support people. Besides, they
> > wouldn't be in the position to do anything about it.
> >
> > The bottom line here is that they're excluding users based on bad
> > judgement. They've got their log very wrong, technically speaking, and I
> > can prove it.
> >
> > If you read the message this woman is getting--which I also get, it
> > seems very justified--the bank wants you to connect using secure,
> > encrypted communications channels so that your information can't be
> > stolen by someone who's eavsdropping. Unfortunately, the way they're
> > actually determining whether or not the connection is encrypted isn't
> > accurate and yields false results, as in this instance. Technically
> > speaking, they're not actually testing for encryption, they're inferring
> > based on what browser the user is using. My advice to this individual
> > will be to simply lie--something that one can do with these browsers and
> > masquerade as Netscape or IE. But, that's not a proper solution.
> >
> > The truth is that looking at what browser the person is using isn't
> > going to really tell you whether or not they're practicing safe
> > computing. As it happens, the old, and now sometimes denigrated text
> > browser lynx, actually provides twice the level of security available in
> > Netscape and Internet Explorer. Lynx SSL encryption, to be technical
> > about it, provides 192-bit encryption, compared to Netscape and IE's
> > 128-bit. In encryption, the higher this number is, the stronger the
> > encryption is.
> >
> > Frankly, this isn't much different than denying service to someone
> > because they wear the wrong clothes. While the users of these browsers
> > may be a minority, they are a growing minority because of the growing
> > popularity of Linux even among users who are blind.
> >
> > The fix is also not difficult or expensive for B of A to implement. But,
> > it's a decision that obviously needs to be made at a high enough level
> > inside their IT department.
> >
> > B of A has been doing an outstanding job of making their extensive on
> > line services accessible. Every few months I go poke around on their web
> > pages and I'm always gratified to see more and more services being made
> > available accessibly. This is making B of A very attractive to potential
> > customers nationwide. It would be a shame to exclude some of them for
> > bogus reasons.
> >
> > Anything you can do would be much appreciated.
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://a11y.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Sean McMahon]

As someone who occationally puts together a webpage or two, how do you check
for encryptian?
Sean
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


> Hi, Darrell:
>
> I've already written to Lainey about it. Here's the text of my message
> to her where I also included the message from Cheryl:
>
>
> Hi, Lainey:
>
> Are you able to help me forward the concern described in the attached
> email? I'm afraid the issue is sufficiently obscure, technically, to not
> make much sense to the first tiers of tech support people. Besides, they
> wouldn't be in the position to do anything about it.
>
> The bottom line here is that they're excluding users based on bad
> judgement. They've got their log very wrong, technically speaking, and I
> can prove it.
>
> If you read the message this woman is getting--which I also get, it
> seems very justified--the bank wants you to connect using secure,
> encrypted communications channels so that your information can't be
> stolen by someone who's eavsdropping. Unfortunately, the way they're
> actually determining whether or not the connection is encrypted isn't
> accurate and yields false results, as in this instance. Technically
> speaking, they're not actually testing for encryption, they're inferring
> based on what browser the user is using. My advice to this individual
> will be to simply lie--something that one can do with these browsers and
> masquerade as Netscape or IE. But, that's not a proper solution.
>
> The truth is that looking at what browser the person is using isn't
> going to really tell you whether or not they're practicing safe
> computing. As it happens, the old, and now sometimes denigrated text
> browser lynx, actually provides twice the level of security available in
> Netscape and Internet Explorer. Lynx SSL encryption, to be technical
> about it, provides 192-bit encryption, compared to Netscape and IE's
> 128-bit. In encryption, the higher this number is, the stronger the
> encryption is.
>
> Frankly, this isn't much different than denying service to someone
> because they wear the wrong clothes. While the users of these browsers
> may be a minority, they are a growing minority because of the growing
> popularity of Linux even among users who are blind.
>
> The fix is also not difficult or expensive for B of A to implement. But,
> it's a decision that obviously needs to be made at a high enough level
> inside their IT department.
>
> B of A has been doing an outstanding job of making their extensive on
> line services accessible. Every few months I go poke around on their web
> pages and I'm always gratified to see more and more services being made
> available accessibly. This is making B of A very attractive to potential
> customers nationwide. It would be a shame to exclude some of them for
> bogus reasons.
>
> Anything you can do would be much appreciated.
>
> -- 
>
> Janina Sajka
> Email: janina@rednote.net
> Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
>
> Director, Technology Research and Development
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> http://www.afb.org
>
> Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> Free Standards Group
> http://a11y.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
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Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Janina Sajka]

Well, the answer must necessarily be server and platform dependent. For
the answer relevant to Apache consult:


   Linkname: SSL/TLS Strong Encryption: FAQ - Apache HTTP Server
           URL: http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.1/en/ssl/ssl_faq.html


Sean McMahon writes:
> From: "Sean McMahon" <smcmahon@usgs.gov>
> 
> As someone who occationally puts together a webpage or two, how do you check
> for encryptian?
> Sean
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@rednote.net>
> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
> enough
> 
> 
> > Hi, Darrell:
> >
> > I've already written to Lainey about it. Here's the text of my message
> > to her where I also included the message from Cheryl:
> >
> >
> > Hi, Lainey:
> >
> > Are you able to help me forward the concern described in the attached
> > email? I'm afraid the issue is sufficiently obscure, technically, to not
> > make much sense to the first tiers of tech support people. Besides, they
> > wouldn't be in the position to do anything about it.
> >
> > The bottom line here is that they're excluding users based on bad
> > judgement. They've got their log very wrong, technically speaking, and I
> > can prove it.
> >
> > If you read the message this woman is getting--which I also get, it
> > seems very justified--the bank wants you to connect using secure,
> > encrypted communications channels so that your information can't be
> > stolen by someone who's eavsdropping. Unfortunately, the way they're
> > actually determining whether or not the connection is encrypted isn't
> > accurate and yields false results, as in this instance. Technically
> > speaking, they're not actually testing for encryption, they're inferring
> > based on what browser the user is using. My advice to this individual
> > will be to simply lie--something that one can do with these browsers and
> > masquerade as Netscape or IE. But, that's not a proper solution.
> >
> > The truth is that looking at what browser the person is using isn't
> > going to really tell you whether or not they're practicing safe
> > computing. As it happens, the old, and now sometimes denigrated text
> > browser lynx, actually provides twice the level of security available in
> > Netscape and Internet Explorer. Lynx SSL encryption, to be technical
> > about it, provides 192-bit encryption, compared to Netscape and IE's
> > 128-bit. In encryption, the higher this number is, the stronger the
> > encryption is.
> >
> > Frankly, this isn't much different than denying service to someone
> > because they wear the wrong clothes. While the users of these browsers
> > may be a minority, they are a growing minority because of the growing
> > popularity of Linux even among users who are blind.
> >
> > The fix is also not difficult or expensive for B of A to implement. But,
> > it's a decision that obviously needs to be made at a high enough level
> > inside their IT department.
> >
> > B of A has been doing an outstanding job of making their extensive on
> > line services accessible. Every few months I go poke around on their web
> > pages and I'm always gratified to see more and more services being made
> > available accessibly. This is making B of A very attractive to potential
> > customers nationwide. It would be a shame to exclude some of them for
> > bogus reasons.
> >
> > Anything you can do would be much appreciated.
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Janina Sajka
> > Email: janina@rednote.net
> > Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Director, Technology Research and Development
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > http://www.afb.org
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility Work Group
> > Free Standards Group
> > http://a11y.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
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-- 
	
Janina Sajka
Email: janina@rednote.net		
Phone: +1 (202) 408-8175

Director, Technology Research and Development
American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
http://www.afb.org

Chair, Accessibility Work Group
Free Standards Group
http://a11y.org

Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[David Poehlman]

yep, The way has got it right and following the standards does not prohibit
accessibility by text browsers.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@azboss.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


Hi Buddy,

In the specific case of the Bank of America issue, you are all correct.  It
should be fixed to test the proper condition; Lynx can, indeed, support SSL!

In more general terms, however, all I am saying is that it is critical not
to place any unreasonable demands when it comes to accessibility.  W3C
standards are an excellent starting point as they are widely-recognized,
international standards as far as they go.  Web design software should, by
its very function, generate W3C compliant code while the GUI user designs
the pages for their web site.  That could result in minimal-effort or
zero-effort accessibility.

I understand your concerns with emphasizing form over function.  I am hoping
this will, eventually, settle in to something that actually makes good
common sense.  In the meantime, we can, to some extent, obtain
accessibil8ity to some of the content within Flash presentations and other
such elements.

Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <davros@ycardz.com>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible
enough


> Hi Darrell,
>
> I couldn't disagree with you more.
>
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 08:32:36AM -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Unfortunately, pure-text based browsers like Links and Lynx are simply
> > obsolete.
> On what basis do you say this? Just because they're not in the
> mainstream, or what? There are certainly legitimate reasons besides
> blindness that one might use a text-only browser. But that's not even
> the point, really.
>
>   There's no reasonable expectation that any company should be
> > forced, in any way, to support such technology.
>
> I don't think this is necessarily an issue of forcing anyone to
> support obselete technology. The test that the page conducts is
> flawed. That certainly *is* cause for concern. While a company perhaps
> shouldn't be forced to support "such technology" (and we can disagree
> on the merits of that statement), they *should* at least be forced to
> make accurate statements and conduct accurate tests. The browser is
> neither Netscape nor MSIE; therefore it doesn't support SSL? One does
> not follow from the other. What if the browser is Mozilla? What if the
> browser is Opera? If what you really mean is "This browser isn't
> netscape or Internet Explorer", say so. If you mean "This browser does
> not support Javascript", say that. But don't say "This browser
> supports SSL" when that statement has not been proved correctly. That
> is a legitimate gripe.
>  We must strive to separate
> > any and all concepts of web accessibility from these obsolete
technologies,
> > as any such link hurts our cause.
>
> I don't think insisting on adherance to W3C standards, or at least,
> adherance to good, efficient, and universal Web design will hurt our
> cause. If we insist on these things, accessibility should follow, if
> we insist on accessibility as a part of the standard. IMO we've put up
> with sloppy Web design for too long. Web designers have been allowed
> to design with form over function and visual appeal over utility for
> far too long. The Web is too full of gratuitous flash and gee whiz
> effects at the expense of usability, and I don't think that insisting
> on utility is a bad thing. Fact is, I would love for you to tell me
> why necessarily "modern" browsers are better than "antiquated"
> ones...is it because they accept sloppily designed pages? If so,
> that's not good enough. Well, we have to deal with sloppily designed
> pages, you could say, so we need "modern" browsers to deal with
> them. I'd rather have pages that aren't sloppy and don't emphasize
> form over function. In fact, I think we should all insist on it.
>
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV/3    | But I will lay my burden
> Email: davros@ycardz.com   | in the cradle of your grace,
> ICQ: 36621210              | And the shining beaches of your love,
> http://www.ycardz.com      | and the sea of your embrace.--Dave Carter
>
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Re: online banking with Bank of America: not quite accessible enough

[Cheryl Homiak]

This has nothing to do with obsoleteness; lynx has 128-bit encryption, or
am I wrong about that?


-- 
Cheryl