OLD DAYS

OLD DAYS

[Cecil H. Whitley]

hI,
i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.

cECIL

Re: OLD DAYS

[Dan Murphy]

Well I don't remember punch cards but we used paper tape extensively
with our teletype on a time sharing system, and it was all basic in
those days.

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:

> hI,
> i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.
<snip>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Janina Sajka]

Cecil:

>From one point of view it may be sad that the U.S. Navy would
still be using paper tape in some places. But, from another
vantage point, it's remarkable and speaks volumes. Can you image
our friends in Redmont building systems that would still chug
along cruncing away happily after 30 or 40 years? Heck, after 30
years of M$ upgrades, you wouldn't be able to read all that
ancient data anymore with the proprietary OS.

On Mon, 20 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:

> hI,
> i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
> STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> 
> cECIL
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: OLD DAYS

[Janina Sajka]

Dan, You don't remember punched cards?

Even as late as the early 1970's, everyone in the U.S. got a
punched card, at least one, in the mail every week. Our phone
bills came with punched cards that had to be returned in order
that our remittances would be credited to our account properly.

Have we so soon forgotten that ostensibly immortal refrain of the
60's:

Do not bend, fold, staple, or mutilate ...

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Dan Murphy wrote:

> Well I don't remember punch cards but we used paper tape extensively
> with our teletype on a time sharing system, and it was all basic in
> those days.
> 
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> 
> > hI,
> > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.
> <snip>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: OLD DAYS

[Kenny Hitt]

When I started my CS classes in 1983, we were still using punched cards.
The first thing you did when your program came back with errors was 
make sure the card punched what was printed on the card.

         Kenny

On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 10:45:49AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Dan, You don't remember punched cards?
> 
> Even as late as the early 1970's, everyone in the U.S. got a
> punched card, at least one, in the mail every week. Our phone
> bills came with punched cards that had to be returned in order
> that our remittances would be credited to our account properly.
> 
> Have we so soon forgotten that ostensibly immortal refrain of the
> 60's:
> 
> Do not bend, fold, staple, or mutilate ...
> 
> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Dan Murphy wrote:
> 
> > Well I don't remember punch cards but we used paper tape extensively
> > with our teletype on a time sharing system, and it was all basic in
> > those days.
> > 
> > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > 
> > > hI,
> > > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> > > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.
> > <snip>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 	
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: OLD DAYS

[Dan Murphy]

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
Well I remember seeing them and using them, but I never saw how they
were used with a computer.  Actually when I was about 11, a person I
know worked at home and she used an IBM punch card machine.
> Dan, You don't remember punched cards?
>
> Even as late as the early 1970's, everyone in the U.S. got a
> punched card, at least one, in the mail every week.
Yes and I recall a very important check from Treasury came on one of
those too.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Dan Murphy
mailto:mweeby@earthlink.net
Moon Of 3 Rings BBS: telnet://soltrath.dyndns.org
Web Site: http://home.earthlink.net/~mweeby/

Re: OLD DAYS

[Richard Villa]

When I first in to the business, I remember that there was a card reader
that we could use to read the punches on the card.  You did this by using a
styles to feel which rows in a given column had been punched.


It is better to give than to receive. don't believe me, just ask a boxer.

Richard

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

I came after the paper tape, but I remember way back in elementary school
learning to type on an apple II with talking typer from aph.  It had an echo
synth that I didn't understand, and two disk drives (5.25") and took about 5
minutes to boot.  Then it would crash if I  backspaced to many times in the
date, and the whole process would have to be repeated.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 11:07 PM
Subject: OLD DAYS


> hI,
> i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
> STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
>
> cECIL
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Igor Gueths]

Hey Alex. I remember the apple 2gs, and it took 5 mins to boot also. It had a 3.5 fd with the echo synth that I could somewhat understand. Oh wasn't that word processor called Bex? The thing booted off a floppy I think. I wonder if that was its entire kernel and rest of os and software all on that disk? Old ass mac system! 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alex Snow <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> I came after the paper tape, but I remember way back in elementary school
> learning to type on an apple II with talking typer from aph.  It had an echo
> synth that I didn't understand, and two disk drives (5.25") and took about 5
> minutes to boot.  Then it would crash if I  backspaced to many times in the
> date, and the whole process would have to be repeated.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 11:07 PM
> Subject: OLD DAYS
> 
> 
> > hI,
> > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
> > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> >
> > cECIL
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

Those old apple IIs are certainly lasting pretty long.  We got a couple at
school that actually still boot, even after all those paperclips and gum
we've thrown in them when we're board just to see what happens.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> Cecil:
>
> >From one point of view it may be sad that the U.S. Navy would
> still be using paper tape in some places. But, from another
> vantage point, it's remarkable and speaks volumes. Can you image
> our friends in Redmont building systems that would still chug
> along cruncing away happily after 30 or 40 years? Heck, after 30
> years of M$ upgrades, you wouldn't be able to read all that
> ancient data anymore with the proprietary OS.
>
> On Mon, 20 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
>
> > hI,
> > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
> > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> >
> > cECIL
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

Yup, it was called bex.  You booted from one disk, then had to insert
another disk to work with, called the main disk I think.  The system I had
was an apple II, but I also worked with the GSs a few times.  The whole OS,
program files, and data files all fit on one 360k floppy.  Winblows takes
500 Megs!
I remember sitting in computer class, all the sited people actually had
macks with HDs, waiting for my sorry little apple to boot.  That thing
sounded like a freit train I remember!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


Hey Alex. I remember the apple 2gs, and it took 5 mins to boot also. It had
a 3.5 fd with the echo synth that I could somewhat understand. Oh wasn't
that word processor called Bex? The thing booted off a floppy I think. I
wonder if that was its entire kernel and rest of os and software all on that
disk? Old ass mac system!
----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Snow <alex_snow@gmx.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> I came after the paper tape, but I remember way back in elementary school
> learning to type on an apple II with talking typer from aph.  It had an
echo
> synth that I didn't understand, and two disk drives (5.25") and took about
5
> minutes to boot.  Then it would crash if I  backspaced to many times in
the
> date, and the whole process would have to be repeated.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 11:07 PM
> Subject: OLD DAYS
>
>
> > hI,
> > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
> > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> >
> > cECIL
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: OLD DAYS

[Adam Myrow]

If you can understand the Braille 'N Speak, you can understand the Echo.
At least to me, they sound very similar.

Yes, I remember BEX.  It had those cryptic commands like " $$c " to center
text.  You absolutely had to put the spaces around them or they wouldn't
work.  I used it with an embosser called an Ohtsuki.  Obviously made in
Japan.  It was a really slow embosser that could produce both Braille and
print, but neither was very sharp.  The Braille felt like the paper had
been stepped on, and everybody said that the print was very faint like it
needed a new ribbon even when it had a brand new one.  It wasn't a ribbon,
but a little rubber wheel and it had holes at the end of each page to
detect the end of the page.  Weird!

I even used a shell account from an Apple IIGS and that was my first
experience with Pine.  That's why I still use Pine even though some say
Mutt is better.  It's hard to change when you've been using Pine that
long.

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

I used bex with a versipoint that sounded like a machine gun and barely
crancked out 30 chars per sec.  I really didn't use it very much, it was
mostely my braillest.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Myrow" <myrow@eskimo.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> If you can understand the Braille 'N Speak, you can understand the Echo.
> At least to me, they sound very similar.
>
> Yes, I remember BEX.  It had those cryptic commands like " $$c " to center
> text.  You absolutely had to put the spaces around them or they wouldn't
> work.  I used it with an embosser called an Ohtsuki.  Obviously made in
> Japan.  It was a really slow embosser that could produce both Braille and
> print, but neither was very sharp.  The Braille felt like the paper had
> been stepped on, and everybody said that the print was very faint like it
> needed a new ribbon even when it had a brand new one.  It wasn't a ribbon,
> but a little rubber wheel and it had holes at the end of each page to
> detect the end of the page.  Weird!
>
> I even used a shell account from an Apple IIGS and that was my first
> experience with Pine.  That's why I still use Pine even though some say
> Mutt is better.  It's hard to change when you've been using Pine that
> long.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Gregory Nowak]

The legacy bns (that's what FS likes to call them now) and the echo speech synth sound the same because they share the same speech chip.
Greg


On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 05:27:28PM -0500, Adam Myrow wrote:
> If you can understand the Braille 'N Speak, you can understand the Echo.
> At least to me, they sound very similar.
> 
> Yes, I remember BEX.  It had those cryptic commands like " $$c " to center
> text.  You absolutely had to put the spaces around them or they wouldn't
> work.  I used it with an embosser called an Ohtsuki.  Obviously made in
> Japan.  It was a really slow embosser that could produce both Braille and
> print, but neither was very sharp.  The Braille felt like the paper had
> been stepped on, and everybody said that the print was very faint like it
> needed a new ribbon even when it had a brand new one.  It wasn't a ribbon,
> but a little rubber wheel and it had holes at the end of each page to
> detect the end of the page.  Weird!
> 
> I even used a shell account from an Apple IIGS and that was my first
> experience with Pine.  That's why I still use Pine even though some say
> Mutt is better.  It's hard to change when you've been using Pine that
> long.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

Thats what What I thought.  The newer bns and blt units have improved
pronounciation over the echo, but the same sounding voice.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> The legacy bns (that's what FS likes to call them now) and the echo speech
synth sound the same because they share the same speech chip.
> Greg
>
>
> On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 05:27:28PM -0500, Adam Myrow wrote:
> > If you can understand the Braille 'N Speak, you can understand the Echo.
> > At least to me, they sound very similar.
> >
> > Yes, I remember BEX.  It had those cryptic commands like " $$c " to
center
> > text.  You absolutely had to put the spaces around them or they wouldn't
> > work.  I used it with an embosser called an Ohtsuki.  Obviously made in
> > Japan.  It was a really slow embosser that could produce both Braille
and
> > print, but neither was very sharp.  The Braille felt like the paper had
> > been stepped on, and everybody said that the print was very faint like
it
> > needed a new ribbon even when it had a brand new one.  It wasn't a
ribbon,
> > but a little rubber wheel and it had holes at the end of each page to
> > detect the end of the page.  Weird!
> >
> > I even used a shell account from an Apple IIGS and that was my first
> > experience with Pine.  That's why I still use Pine even though some say
> > Mutt is better.  It's hard to change when you've been using Pine that
> > long.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Gregory Nowak]

The newer units use a doubletalk chip. They don't use its full potential either.
Greg


On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 06:46:51PM -0400, Alex Snow wrote:
> Thats what What I thought.  The newer bns and blt units have improved
> pronounciation over the echo, but the same sounding voice.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romualt.dhs.org>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: OLD DAYS
> 
> 
> > The legacy bns (that's what FS likes to call them now) and the echo speech
> synth sound the same because they share the same speech chip.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 21, 2002 at 05:27:28PM -0500, Adam Myrow wrote:
> > > If you can understand the Braille 'N Speak, you can understand the Echo.
> > > At least to me, they sound very similar.
> > >
> > > Yes, I remember BEX.  It had those cryptic commands like " $$c " to
> center
> > > text.  You absolutely had to put the spaces around them or they wouldn't
> > > work.  I used it with an embosser called an Ohtsuki.  Obviously made in
> > > Japan.  It was a really slow embosser that could produce both Braille
> and
> > > print, but neither was very sharp.  The Braille felt like the paper had
> > > been stepped on, and everybody said that the print was very faint like
> it
> > > needed a new ribbon even when it had a brand new one.  It wasn't a
> ribbon,
> > > but a little rubber wheel and it had holes at the end of each page to
> > > detect the end of the page.  Weird!
> > >
> > > I even used a shell account from an Apple IIGS and that was my first
> > > experience with Pine.  That's why I still use Pine even though some say
> > > Mutt is better.  It's hard to change when you've been using Pine that
> > > long.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: OLD DAYS

[Cecil H. Whitley]

I actually still have an echo pc.  I started out with an apple ii-c (really
portable for me since I don't use a monitor!).  Any idea of how much work it
would be for me to add in support for the echo into speakup?  I've got the
manual around here somewhere that lists all the sequences....  Any pointers
Kirk?

I assume there are key-value pairs for each of the possible values for
speakup_synth that would need the addition of an additional key word?  Is
the controls actually within the source code or do you use a seperate data
file?  If I actually get something working do you want a diff?

Cecil

echo driver was Re: OLD DAYS

[Kirk Reiser]

"Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com> writes:

> I actually still have an echo pc.  I started out with an apple ii-c (really
> portable for me since I don't use a monitor!).  Any idea of how much work it
> would be for me to add in support for the echo into speakup?  I've got the
> manual around here somewhere that lists all the sequences....  Any pointers
> Kirk?

Just take another serial driver and start with that.  The Accent Sa or
Transport may be the best ones to look at.
> 
> I assume there are key-value pairs for each of the possible values for
> speakup_synth that would need the addition of an additional key word?  Is
> the controls actually within the source code or do you use a seperate data
> file?  If I actually get something working do you want a diff?
There are tables of control sequences for each synth in symbols.h.
> It'll be a tad of work.

  Kirk

-- 

Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: OLD DAYS

[Janina Sajka]

I don't know, Alex. I thought the Apple 2E was a pretty cool
machine. It was my very first computer. I saved and saved until I
could afford $1,000 for an  Apple 2E, and I only got it so cheap
because I didn't need the monitor.

After awhile, I added a meg of RAM and then I had a truly cool
machine. It took 4 floppies to boot the darn thing, but then it
just stayed up for weeks, or until I hard crashed it with some
bad basic code.

Oh, yes, and I also scrimped and saved to get one of those new
fangled 2400 baud modems for it. I recall that Hayes modem set me
back $678, which was more than an SSI check in those days.

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> I came after the paper tape, but I remember way back in elementary school
> learning to type on an apple II with talking typer from aph.  It had an echo
> synth that I didn't understand, and two disk drives (5.25") and took about 5
> minutes to boot.  Then it would crash if I  backspaced to many times in the
> date, and the whole process would have to be repeated.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 11:07 PM
> Subject: OLD DAYS
> 
> 
> > hI,
> > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
> > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> >
> > cECIL
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: OLD DAYS

[Janina Sajka]

No, I think the Apple 5 and a quarter inch floppies were only 143
K. Their 3.5 inch disks were 800, but I couldn't afford those.
Ibm had the 360K 5.25 disks.

Gosh, I even double spaced above. Talk about old habits!

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> Yup, it was called bex.  You booted from one disk, then had to insert
> another disk to work with, called the main disk I think.  The system I had
> was an apple II, but I also worked with the GSs a few times.  The whole OS,
> program files, and data files all fit on one 360k floppy.  Winblows takes
> 500 Megs!
> I remember sitting in computer class, all the sited people actually had
> macks with HDs, waiting for my sorry little apple to boot.  That thing
> sounded like a freit train I remember!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:59 PM
> Subject: Re: OLD DAYS
> 
> 
> Hey Alex. I remember the apple 2gs, and it took 5 mins to boot also. It had
> a 3.5 fd with the echo synth that I could somewhat understand. Oh wasn't
> that word processor called Bex? The thing booted off a floppy I think. I
> wonder if that was its entire kernel and rest of os and software all on that
> disk? Old ass mac system!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alex Snow <alex_snow@gmx.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:14 PM
> Subject: Re: OLD DAYS
> 
> 
> > I came after the paper tape, but I remember way back in elementary school
> > learning to type on an apple II with talking typer from aph.  It had an
> echo
> > synth that I didn't understand, and two disk drives (5.25") and took about
> 5
> > minutes to boot.  Then it would crash if I  backspaced to many times in
> the
> > date, and the whole process would have to be repeated.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 11:07 PM
> > Subject: OLD DAYS
> >
> >
> > > hI,
> > > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> > > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
> > > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> > >
> > > cECIL
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: OLD DAYS

[Shaun Oliver]

believe it or not, my first computer was a comodore 64 with no speech.
I could see well enough at the time to be able to read the print off of my
tv screen. I even had some cool games for it that weren't released to the
publick until a few months after I had them.
I'm still amazed that you could do so much with a 1 mhz processor and the
entire os was in memory.
I mean sure you had to load games off of a tape, and I mean audio cassett,
but it was for it's time very fast. especially when you put things like
dolphin dos or cocroach on it.
oh how I miss my c 64 hahaha.


-- 
Shaun Oliver

Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > icq:76958435

Re: OLD DAYS

[jwantz]

Hi,
Well, I believe that a fair portion of the Apple 2e's operating system 
was in ROM.  For sure, all of the Commodore 64's operating system was in 
ROM.  It was actually mapped on top of useful RAM.  You had to do 
something called banked switching if you wanted to use it.  Each bank 
was 8K.  Alex, I have a passionate hatred of the Echo synthesizer voice!

      Jim Wantz WB0TFK
On 
Tue, 21 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> Those old apple IIs are certainly lasting pretty long.  We got a couple at
> school that actually still boot, even after all those paperclips and gum
> we've thrown in them when we're board just to see what happens.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: OLD DAYS
> 
> 
> > Cecil:
> >
> > >From one point of view it may be sad that the U.S. Navy would
> > still be using paper tape in some places. But, from another
> > vantage point, it's remarkable and speaks volumes. Can you image
> > our friends in Redmont building systems that would still chug
> > along cruncing away happily after 30 or 40 years? Heck, after 30
> > years of M$ upgrades, you wouldn't be able to read all that
> > ancient data anymore with the proprietary OS.
> >
> > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> >
> > > hI,
> > > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER PAPER
> > > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS PROBABLY
> > > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> > >
> > > cECIL
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: OLD DAYS

[jwantz]

Hi Cecil,
I have a friend who would be very interested in this.  He logs into his 
Linux machine from a Windblows machine.  The only synthesizer he uses is 
an Echo.  He is a very experienced C programmer.and would be delighted 
to work on the project I'm sure.

     Jim Wantz WB0TFK
On Tue, 21 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley 
wrote:

> I actually still have an echo pc.  I started out with an apple ii-c (really
> portable for me since I don't use a monitor!).  Any idea of how much work it
> would be for me to add in support for the echo into speakup?  I've got the
> manual around here somewhere that lists all the sequences....  Any pointers
> Kirk?
> 
> I assume there are key-value pairs for each of the possible values for
> speakup_synth that would need the addition of an additional key word?  Is
> the controls actually within the source code or do you use a seperate data
> file?  If I actually get something working do you want a diff?
> 
> Cecil
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

Yeah lots of it was in rom, but not enough to boot without a disk with
software on it.  Thats why there wasn't any screen reader for those
machines, just talking programs.
----- Original Message -----
From: <jwantz@hpcc2.hpcc.noaa.gov>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> Hi,
> Well, I believe that a fair portion of the Apple 2e's operating system
> was in ROM.  For sure, all of the Commodore 64's operating system was in
> ROM.  It was actually mapped on top of useful RAM.  You had to do
> something called banked switching if you wanted to use it.  Each bank
> was 8K.  Alex, I have a passionate hatred of the Echo synthesizer voice!
>
>       Jim Wantz WB0TFK
> On
> Tue, 21 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
>
> > Those old apple IIs are certainly lasting pretty long.  We got a couple
at
> > school that actually still boot, even after all those paperclips and gum
> > we've thrown in them when we're board just to see what happens.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: OLD DAYS
> >
> >
> > > Cecil:
> > >
> > > >From one point of view it may be sad that the U.S. Navy would
> > > still be using paper tape in some places. But, from another
> > > vantage point, it's remarkable and speaks volumes. Can you image
> > > our friends in Redmont building systems that would still chug
> > > along cruncing away happily after 30 or 40 years? Heck, after 30
> > > years of M$ upgrades, you wouldn't be able to read all that
> > > ancient data anymore with the proprietary OS.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 20 May 2002, Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> > >
> > > > hI,
> > > > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER
PAPER
> > > > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS
PROBABLY
> > > > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> > > >
> > > > cECIL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Technology Research and Development
> > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > >
> > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > http://www.openebook.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

That was even before monitors.  Everyone just used color TVs because they
were cheaper.  Didn't they plug into a RF modulator card?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> believe it or not, my first computer was a comodore 64 with no speech.
> I could see well enough at the time to be able to read the print off of my
> tv screen. I even had some cool games for it that weren't released to the
> publick until a few months after I had them.
> I'm still amazed that you could do so much with a 1 mhz processor and the
> entire os was in memory.
> I mean sure you had to load games off of a tape, and I mean audio cassett,
> but it was for it's time very fast. especially when you put things like
> dolphin dos or cocroach on it.
> oh how I miss my c 64 hahaha.
>
>
> --
> Shaun Oliver
>
> Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> > >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > icq:76958435
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

Wow, and to think most of an OS kernel and other apps fit on only 144k of
disk?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


>
> No, I think the Apple 5 and a quarter inch floppies were only 143
> K. Their 3.5 inch disks were 800, but I couldn't afford those.
> Ibm had the 360K 5.25 disks.
>
> Gosh, I even double spaced above. Talk about old habits!
>
> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
>
> > Yup, it was called bex.  You booted from one disk, then had to insert
> > another disk to work with, called the main disk I think.  The system I
had
> > was an apple II, but I also worked with the GSs a few times.  The whole
OS,
> > program files, and data files all fit on one 360k floppy.  Winblows
takes
> > 500 Megs!
> > I remember sitting in computer class, all the sited people actually had
> > macks with HDs, waiting for my sorry little apple to boot.  That thing
> > sounded like a freit train I remember!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@attbi.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: OLD DAYS
> >
> >
> > Hey Alex. I remember the apple 2gs, and it took 5 mins to boot also. It
had
> > a 3.5 fd with the echo synth that I could somewhat understand. Oh wasn't
> > that word processor called Bex? The thing booted off a floppy I think. I
> > wonder if that was its entire kernel and rest of os and software all on
that
> > disk? Old ass mac system!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Alex Snow <alex_snow@gmx.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: OLD DAYS
> >
> >
> > > I came after the paper tape, but I remember way back in elementary
school
> > > learning to type on an apple II with talking typer from aph.  It had
an
> > echo
> > > synth that I didn't understand, and two disk drives (5.25") and took
about
> > 5
> > > minutes to boot.  Then it would crash if I  backspaced to many times
in
> > the
> > > date, and the whole process would have to be repeated.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> > > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 11:07 PM
> > > Subject: OLD DAYS
> > >
> > >
> > > > hI,
> > > > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER
PAPER
> > > > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS
PROBABLY
> > > > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> > > >
> > > > cECIL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

My apple was a stripped-down school machine, already outdated when I got to
use it.  I used to like to play that game in talking typer, I forget what it
was called, all the time.  I used to loose so baddely...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janina Sajka" <janina@afb.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> I don't know, Alex. I thought the Apple 2E was a pretty cool
> machine. It was my very first computer. I saved and saved until I
> could afford $1,000 for an  Apple 2E, and I only got it so cheap
> because I didn't need the monitor.
>
> After awhile, I added a meg of RAM and then I had a truly cool
> machine. It took 4 floppies to boot the darn thing, but then it
> just stayed up for weeks, or until I hard crashed it with some
> bad basic code.
>
> Oh, yes, and I also scrimped and saved to get one of those new
> fangled 2400 baud modems for it. I recall that Hayes modem set me
> back $678, which was more than an SSI check in those days.
>
> On Tue, 21 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
>
> > I came after the paper tape, but I remember way back in elementary
school
> > learning to type on an apple II with talking typer from aph.  It had an
echo
> > synth that I didn't understand, and two disk drives (5.25") and took
about 5
> > minutes to boot.  Then it would crash if I  backspaced to many times in
the
> > date, and the whole process would have to be repeated.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cecil H. Whitley" <cwhitley@ec.rr.com>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 11:07 PM
> > Subject: OLD DAYS
> >
> >
> > > hI,
> > > i REMEMBER bitnET AND RELAY (RAN ON TOP OF RSCS).  i ALSO REMEMBER
PAPER
> > > TAPE AND PUNCH CARDS.  sAD PART ABOUT THAT IS THAT THE nAVY IS
PROBABLY
> > > STILL USING PAPER TAPE IN PLACES.
> > >
> > > cECIL
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Technology Research and Development
> Governmental Relations Group
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Janina Sajka]

The thing I wanted, and never got, was a battery powered RAM card
from some outfit in Texas called Applied Engineering. You could
boot to this card, like in seconds.

I still want something like that. Booting from hd, even on Linux,
just isn't the same as flipping a switch and having a prompt at
about the same time.


-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: OLD DAYS

[Janina Sajka]

I think APH are giving away all that old Apple software on their
web site still. I almost wish I had an Apple around here, but I
don't.

What I really want is to copy off some of my old basic programs.
I learned computers on that Apple, and I learned by writing
automatic graphics programs that just kept generating and
transforming images on screen. I couldn't see them, but I had fun
conceptualizing. You might say I was a peekin' and pokin fool
back then.


-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: OLD DAYS

[Shaun Oliver]

the rf modulater card was for the omega
all you had for a comodore 64 was the cable between the system unit and
the tv screen.


-- 
Shaun Oliver

Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > icq:76958435

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

Oh I was thinking of the apple II.  That had the rf modulator card.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> the rf modulater card was for the omega
> all you had for a comodore 64 was the cable between the system unit and
> the tv screen.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Shaun Oliver
> 
> Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> > >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > icq:76958435
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: OLD DAYS

[Toby Fisher]

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Dan, You don't remember punched cards?

He obviously doesn't live in Florida *big grin*


Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: OLD DAYS

[Toby Fisher]

On Tue, 21 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Cecil:
>
> >From one point of view it may be sad that the U.S. Navy would
> still be using paper tape in some places. But, from another
> vantage point, it's remarkable and speaks volumes. Can you image
> our friends in Redmont building systems that would still chug
> along cruncing away happily after 30 or 40 years? Heck, after 30
> years of M$ upgrades, you wouldn't be able to read all that
> ancient data anymore with the proprietary OS.

Actually, it has another advantage as well, paper tape is not vulnerable
to the EM pulses that come with nuclear weapons.  This is why some fighter
aircraft still run on ferite core memory.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: OLD DAYS

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> Yeah lots of it was in rom, but not enough to boot without a disk with
> software on it.  Thats why there wasn't any screen reader for those
> machines, just talking programs.

That's right, there was a speech synth that you plugged into a socket at
the back, I still have one at my parents' place.  You could write your own
programs to talk under the C64, but to make them speak, you had to put
slashes everywhere, and other stuff to get the pauses right and stuff,
very weird.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: OLD DAYS

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> That was even before monitors.  Everyone just used color TVs because they
> were cheaper.  Didn't they plug into a RF modulator card?

Colour tvs?  No way, we had a black and white one, ok, so I didn't need to
see it, but everyone else did, it was a real treat to be allowed to plug
it into the main colour tv, and the sound was so much better, cos it used
the tv speaker as well.

Cheers.\

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: OLD DAYS

[Toby Fisher]

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I still want something like that. Booting from hd, even on Linux,
> just isn't the same as flipping a switch and having a prompt at
> about the same time.

Oooo, who remembers the good old BBC mode b?  Now there was a dumb
computer, I mean, it was a crap games machine, but they were good machines
just to play with, and you could even get a screen reader for them, on
disk of course, or you could issue a whole load of *fx commands and vdu
commands, and get the internal voice chip to do the speaking for you, if
you could understand it.  And then, of course, there was Wordwise...

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: OLD DAYS

[Janina Sajka]

On Thu, 23 May 2002, Toby Fisher wrote:

> On Wed, 22 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
> 
> > That was even before monitors.  Everyone just used color TVs
> 
> Colour tvs?  No way, we had a black and white one, ok,

I knew I was getting old when my recently divorced friend bought
an old black and white at a garage sale for $2.50. She was so
pleased to have TV again. Her kids were so upset because they
thought she'd bought a broken TV. They'd never heard of black and
white.

Re: OLD DAYS

[Toby Fisher]

On Thu, 23 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> I knew I was getting old when my recently divorced friend bought
> an old black and white at a garage sale for $2.50. She was so
> pleased to have TV again. Her kids were so upset because they
> thought she'd bought a broken TV. They'd never heard of black and
> white.

Hehehe, I think my parents still have a functional black and white tv for
the C64, but the main problem we had with them was tuner drift, and if it
went in the middle of a game or something, uh-oh, well, you ten had to
gently adjust the tuning knob till sound and picture came back.

Cheers.

-- 
Toby Fisher	Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272	Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
ICQ: #61744808
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Re: OLD DAYS

[Dan Murphy]

This all reminds me of my first computer, a TI 99/4A which required the
correct terminal emulator cartridge and you had to put speech in all
your basic programs.

>
> That's right, there was a speech synth that you plugged into a socket at
> the back, I still have one at my parents' place.  You could write your own
<snip>

Re: OLD DAYS

[Alex Snow]

I recently picked up an old black and white TV at a garage sale, It was in
the free pile.  It came with a set of rabbit ears, and It actually got good
reception.  It's sitting on the shelf in my workshop since I don't have a
place for it right now.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Toby Fisher" <toby_fisher@bigfoot.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: OLD DAYS


> On Thu, 23 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
> > I knew I was getting old when my recently divorced friend bought
> > an old black and white at a garage sale for $2.50. She was so
> > pleased to have TV again. Her kids were so upset because they
> > thought she'd bought a broken TV. They'd never heard of black and
> > white.
>
> Hehehe, I think my parents still have a functional black and white tv for
> the C64, but the main problem we had with them was tuner drift, and if it
> went in the middle of a game or something, uh-oh, well, you ten had to
> gently adjust the tuning knob till sound and picture came back.
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Toby Fisher Email: toby@g0ucu.freeserve.co.uk
> Tel.: +44(0)1480 417272 Mobile: +44(0)7974 363239
> ICQ: #61744808
>    Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>    See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: OLD DAYS

[jwantz]

Hi,
Well, the c-64 also had a RF modulator chip--but as I recall it also had 
a provisions for connecting a terminal--a Commodore terminal of course, 
not an IBM style terminal.  Also, with the screen reader I was using I 
could use many more commercially written software programs than you 
Apple guys.  However, your standard BASIC was far superior to Commodore 
BASIC 2.0 which was built into the ROM.  As C-64 users all know, 
everything was in ROM, you didn't use a boot disk.

i've seen embeded Linux that doesn't need a disk either.  But I can't 
think of a way to pass it kernel boot time parameters even if you had 
Speakup built in.  I do wish somebody would build a little router that 
you could pass Linux commands to the router via an RS-232 or a USB port.
On Thu, 23 May 
2002, Alex Snow wrote:

> Oh I was thinking of the apple II.  That had the rf modulator card.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shaun Oliver" <shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 6:20 AM
> Subject: Re: OLD DAYS
> 
> 
> > the rf modulater card was for the omega
> > all you had for a comodore 64 was the cable between the system unit and
> > the tv screen.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Shaun Oliver
> > 
> > Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the
> > > > only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor.
> > > >                 -- Wernher von Braun.
> > > > email: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
> > > > icq:76958435
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

Re: OLD DAYS

[jwantz]

Hi Again,
This is NOT correct.  There were 3 screen reading programs written for 
the c-64!  I don't even remember the name of the first program I used,, 
but it worked off of a cartridge that you plugged into the cartridge 
slot and produced a software synthesized voice.  That one didn't work 
very well--it only ran a few programs.  Then there was Eric Bohlmann's 
product, that had a screen reader that you had to load in with a load 
command from a disk.  Once it was loaded, you would remove the disk and 
proceed normally.  It came with a keypad and a synthesizer.  Then you 
would insert whatever disks you wanted and load the programs.  I would 
guess that it worked with about 60% of the commercial software 
available.  Then Eric made a cartridge version that worked on about 80% 
of the commercially available software which was really amazing for that 
time.  He also had written a terminal program that used a whopping 40K.  
Also, I wrote my first C code on a very optimizing K&R C compiler.  The 
only problem was that it took about 15 minutes and 5 disk removals to 
compile a simple program.  The reason I got a PC was so that I could 
compile C programs faster and the fact that all of the C books at that 
time were either using UNIX examples  or DOS examples.

     Jim Wantz WB0TFK
On Thu, 23 May 2002, 
Toby Fisher wrote:

> On Wed, 22 May 2002, Alex Snow wrote:
> 
> > Yeah lots of it was in rom, but not enough to boot without a disk with
> > software on it.  Thats why there wasn't any screen reader for those
> > machines, just talking programs.
> 
> That's right, there was a speech synth that you plugged into a socket at
> the back, I still have one at my parents' place.  You could write your own
> programs to talk under the C64, but to make them speak, you had to put
> slashes everywhere, and other stuff to get the pauses right and stuff,
> very weird.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
>