Re: Strange things with my hard drive

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Igor Gueths]

Hi. You might want to slave the Cdrom to the hard drive. I haven't actually built a machine as of yet, but hope this helps. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Victor Tsaran <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
To: Speakup List <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:26 PM
Subject: Strange things with my hard drive


> Hell, listers!
> I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope you
> will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive to
> the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...", but
> CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to IDE0,
> both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> Can you suggest something?
> Victor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Gregory Nowak]

Here's my 2 grosze or cents worth (whichever you prefer) (grin).
As far as I know, if your cd-rom drive is alone on a controller, it should be jumpered as slave, unless of course there is something else on that controller with it.
Greg

 
On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 01:26:20AM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> Hell, listers!
> I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope you
> will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive to
> the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...", but
> CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to IDE0,
> both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> Can you suggest something?
> Victor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

Did you make sure that the cable to the hard drive was an 80-wire
udma-66 cable? Compared to the cdrom cable the wires are finer.
UDMA-66 cables are also more springy and less flexible than standard ones.
Even modern burners run at a maximum of udma/33 which doesn't require special cables.
Hard drives on the other hand can run at udma/66 or uata/100 and
failure to use an 80-wire cable with a stupid o/s which fails to disable udma
can and usually does result in data corruption. The operating system in q
question comes from Redmond :-)
Linux shuts down dma if it sees 3 crc errors.
Win 2k and XP are supposed to do this too but sometimes
it doesn't happen.

Regards, Kerry.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 12:56:37PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote:
> Hi. You might want to slave the Cdrom to the hard drive. I haven't actually built a machine as of yet, but hope this helps. 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Victor Tsaran <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> To: Speakup List <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:26 PM
> Subject: Strange things with my hard drive
> 
> 
> > Hell, listers!
> > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope you
> > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive to
> > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...", but
> > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to IDE0,
> > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > Can you suggest something?
> > Victor
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

No greg this is not the case at all.
To quote from the ATA specification:
"A single device on an ATA bus shall be jumpered as master..."
In fact this is documented in
/usr/src/linux/Documentation/ide.txt
Sometimes however certain drives and controllers don't follow the standards and do
work with cdrom as slave only however the vast majority
will work just fine with cdrom as master.
I have seen machines that become rather unstable when accessing the cdrom if it is
slave and the only device on a cable.
Linux probes for both master and slave on a cable; but success is more likely if
a single device on a cable is master.
One day all this might not matter; when everything truly becomes plug and play but until then,
i'm glad i've put as many machines together as I have to know all the quirks that I have seen.

Regards, Kerry.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 01:06:29PM -0600, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Here's my 2 grosze or cents worth (whichever you prefer) (grin).
> As far as I know, if your cd-rom drive is alone on a controller, it should be jumpered as slave, unless of course there is something else on that controller with it.
> Greg
> 
>  
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 01:26:20AM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> > Hell, listers!
> > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope you
> > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive to
> > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...", but
> > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to IDE0,
> > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > Can you suggest something?
> > Victor
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

You think that won't slow down either?
Victor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Igor Gueths" <igueths@yahoo.com>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive


> Hi. You might want to slave the Cdrom to the hard drive. I haven't
actually built a machine as of yet, but hope this helps.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Victor Tsaran <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> To: Speakup List <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:26 PM
> Subject: Strange things with my hard drive
>
>
> > Hell, listers!
> > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope
you
> > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive
to
> > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...",
but
> > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
IDE0,
> > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > Can you suggest something?
> > Victor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

Hi, Kerry!
I used the cable which came with my motherboard. I am not sure if this is an
80-wire or not. Would this matter? How would I identify the difference
otherwise?
Thanks,
Victor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kerry Hoath" <kerry@gotss.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive


> Did you make sure that the cable to the hard drive was an 80-wire
> udma-66 cable? Compared to the cdrom cable the wires are finer.
> UDMA-66 cables are also more springy and less flexible than standard ones.
> Even modern burners run at a maximum of udma/33 which doesn't require
special cables.
> Hard drives on the other hand can run at udma/66 or uata/100 and
> failure to use an 80-wire cable with a stupid o/s which fails to disable
udma
> can and usually does result in data corruption. The operating system in q
> question comes from Redmond :-)
> Linux shuts down dma if it sees 3 crc errors.
> Win 2k and XP are supposed to do this too but sometimes
> it doesn't happen.
>
> Regards, Kerry.
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 12:56:37PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote:
> > Hi. You might want to slave the Cdrom to the hard drive. I haven't
actually built a machine as of yet, but hope this helps.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Victor Tsaran <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> > To: Speakup List <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:26 PM
> > Subject: Strange things with my hard drive
> >
> >
> > > Hell, listers!
> > > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists.
Hope you
> > > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive
to
> > > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk
failed...", but
> > > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
IDE0,
> > > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning?
I
> > > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > > Can you suggest something?
> > > Victor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
> Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

Hell, listers!
I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope you
will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive to
the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...", but
CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to IDE0,
both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
Can you suggest something?
Victor

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Alex Snow]

I've never bilt a computer, but i've taken about 100 apart.  In most cases,
and most of the machines I gutted were older ones, the cdrom is slaved to
the hard drive witch is the master.

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

The 80-wire cable is springy whereas
a normal 40 wire cable will flopy when bent.
40 wire cables have wires that you can easily feel the separation between
whereas 80-wire cables have the wires a lot closer together.
80-wire cables usually have a pull tab on each connector i.e. a piece of plastic you grab and pull
to disconnect the cable froma drive.
80-wire cables provide more shielding to the ide signal so that it is not currupted 
at udma/66 speeds and higher. Most system boards now ship with uata/100 controllers
and unless specifically slowed down they power up in the fastest mode supported by drive
and controler. Without an 80-wire udma/66
cable data corruption can and does occurr.

One of the weakest parts of the ata spec was the cable; you don't have the
redundant grounds for each signal like scsi does.

Regards, Kerry.
On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 01:08:09AM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> Hi, Kerry!
> I used the cable which came with my motherboard. I am not sure if this is an
> 80-wire or not. Would this matter? How would I identify the difference
> otherwise?
> Thanks,
> Victor
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kerry Hoath" <kerry@gotss.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive
> 
> 
> > Did you make sure that the cable to the hard drive was an 80-wire
> > udma-66 cable? Compared to the cdrom cable the wires are finer.
> > UDMA-66 cables are also more springy and less flexible than standard ones.
> > Even modern burners run at a maximum of udma/33 which doesn't require
> special cables.
> > Hard drives on the other hand can run at udma/66 or uata/100 and
> > failure to use an 80-wire cable with a stupid o/s which fails to disable
> udma
> > can and usually does result in data corruption. The operating system in q
> > question comes from Redmond :-)
> > Linux shuts down dma if it sees 3 crc errors.
> > Win 2k and XP are supposed to do this too but sometimes
> > it doesn't happen.
> >
> > Regards, Kerry.
> > On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 12:56:37PM -0500, Igor Gueths wrote:
> > > Hi. You might want to slave the Cdrom to the hard drive. I haven't
> actually built a machine as of yet, but hope this helps.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Victor Tsaran <tsar@sylaba.poznan.pl>
> > > To: Speakup List <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 7:26 PM
> > > Subject: Strange things with my hard drive
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hell, listers!
> > > > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists.
> Hope you
> > > > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > > > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive
> to
> > > > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk
> failed...", but
> > > > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
> IDE0,
> > > > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning?
> I
> > > > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > > > Can you suggest something?
> > > > Victor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
> kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

This is not a good idea unless ide channels are limited.
The reason for this is that once one device is accessing the ide bus the other
device doesn't get a look in until the first device has finished.
The practical upshot of this is that installs from cdromt o hard disk go really slowly because
both devices want contention on the ide bus.
With the multitude of IDE devices these days it can be difficult to get the combinations right.
Slaving a cdrom to a burner is ok provided you don't want to do on-the-fly
copying with your cdrom to burner.
Slaving a burner to a hard drive can also cause problems if your i/o subsystem is not up to 
keeping both devices busy.
If you have a cdrom only put it master on the secondary controller if you don't have 2 hard drives or put it as
slave on the secondary if you have a hard drive on both controllers.
If you have a cdorm and a burner I cable like this:
primary master, hard drive.
Primary slave, empty
Secondary master, cd burner, secondary slave, cdrom.
I don't on-the-fly copy from cd to burner, I let the computer
put it on the hard drive as an intermediate step.

Regards, Kerry.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> I've never bilt a computer, but i've taken about 100 apart.  In most cases,
> and most of the machines I gutted were older ones, the cdrom is slaved to
> the hard drive witch is the master.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Gregory Nowak]

Is this true only for cd-roms, or is it also true for other ide devices? What I mean is for example if I have a hard drive as primary master, and zip drive as primary slave, am I going to experience this slow down too when copying from one to the other, or not?
Greg


On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 11:04:33AM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote:
> This is not a good idea unless ide channels are limited.
> The reason for this is that once one device is accessing the ide bus the other
> device doesn't get a look in until the first device has finished.
> The practical upshot of this is that installs from cdromt o hard disk go really slowly because
> both devices want contention on the ide bus.
> With the multitude of IDE devices these days it can be difficult to get the combinations right.
> Slaving a cdrom to a burner is ok provided you don't want to do on-the-fly
> copying with your cdrom to burner.
> Slaving a burner to a hard drive can also cause problems if your i/o subsystem is not up to 
> keeping both devices busy.
> If you have a cdrom only put it master on the secondary controller if you don't have 2 hard drives or put it as
> slave on the secondary if you have a hard drive on both controllers.
> If you have a cdorm and a burner I cable like this:
> primary master, hard drive.
> Primary slave, empty
> Secondary master, cd burner, secondary slave, cdrom.
> I don't on-the-fly copy from cd to burner, I let the computer
> put it on the hard drive as an intermediate step.
> 
> Regards, Kerry.
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > I've never bilt a computer, but i've taken about 100 apart.  In most cases,
> > and most of the machines I gutted were older ones, the cdrom is slaved to
> > the hard drive witch is the master.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

Yes you will.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 10:12:45PM -0600, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Is this true only for cd-roms, or is it also true for other ide devices? What I mean is for example if I have a hard drive as primary master, and zip drive as primary slave, am I going to experience this slow down too when copying from one to the other, or not?
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 11:04:33AM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote:
> > This is not a good idea unless ide channels are limited.
> > The reason for this is that once one device is accessing the ide bus the other
> > device doesn't get a look in until the first device has finished.
> > The practical upshot of this is that installs from cdromt o hard disk go really slowly because
> > both devices want contention on the ide bus.
> > With the multitude of IDE devices these days it can be difficult to get the combinations right.
> > Slaving a cdrom to a burner is ok provided you don't want to do on-the-fly
> > copying with your cdrom to burner.
> > Slaving a burner to a hard drive can also cause problems if your i/o subsystem is not up to 
> > keeping both devices busy.
> > If you have a cdrom only put it master on the secondary controller if you don't have 2 hard drives or put it as
> > slave on the secondary if you have a hard drive on both controllers.
> > If you have a cdorm and a burner I cable like this:
> > primary master, hard drive.
> > Primary slave, empty
> > Secondary master, cd burner, secondary slave, cdrom.
> > I don't on-the-fly copy from cd to burner, I let the computer
> > put it on the hard drive as an intermediate step.
> > 
> > Regards, Kerry.
> > On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > > I've never bilt a computer, but i've taken about 100 apart.  In most cases,
> > > and most of the machines I gutted were older ones, the cdrom is slaved to
> > > the hard drive witch is the master.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Pete]

  Can you check your bios/cmos settings?  Some bioses require cdrom drives
to be set to none and others have a cdrom selection while yet other bioses
will work whith auto or none set for the cdrom.  If the hard drive is les
than (8 gig? the bioses limit? or maybe 2 or 4 gig limit?) set up the hard
drive whith the C H S values in cmos.  Usually setting the P I O  and the  U
D M A  modes to auto will work.  There may be a couple of settings like L B
A (larg block addressing) or I think another one called just large mode.  If
your lucky you can set this one to auto. More likely there either an on/off
or check box to check.  I geus what I am really trying to say is check the
settings in bios/cmos for the hard drive you are trying to install.
Depending on what hard drive you have there may be two jumpers to set.  One
for master / slave etc and another one for cylinder limitation.  The
cylinder limitation for example: if you have a bios/cmos whith an 8 gig
limit and your hard drive is 10 gig, you would set both master and cylinder
limitation jumpers.  Some computers wont boot unless the cylinder limit
jumper is set to occomidate the limit in bios/cmos most I have seen will
boot any way so not booting could tell you some thing.  Usually no jumpers
on the cdrom meens slave. Also most cdrom and hard drives have jumpers for:
master, slave and cable select.  You may have a system whith cable select,
in which case set all drives to cable select (CS).  The cable select, this
setting detirmines by possission which drive is master and which one is
slave.  How new are the hard drive and cdrom and how old is the motherboard?
  Pete

> Hell, listers!
> I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope
you
> will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive to
> the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...",
but
> CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
IDE0,
> both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> Can you suggest something?
> Victor

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Pete]

  I thought this only applied if you were using 16 bit drivers?  Maybe it
was a miss print in a microscoff artical.
  Pete
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 11:04:33AM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote:
> > This is not a good idea unless ide channels are limited.
> > The reason for this is that once one device is accessing the ide bus the
other
> > device doesn't get a look in until the first device has finished.
> > The practical upshot of this is that installs from cdromt o hard disk go
really slowly because
> > both devices want contention on the ide bus.
> > With the multitude of IDE devices these days it can be difficult to get
the combinations right.
> > Slaving a cdrom to a burner is ok provided you don't want to do
on-the-fly
> > copying with your cdrom to burner.
> > Slaving a burner to a hard drive can also cause problems if your i/o
subsystem is not up to
> > keeping both devices busy.
> > If you have a cdrom only put it master on the secondary controller if
you don't have 2 hard drives or put it as
> > slave on the secondary if you have a hard drive on both controllers.
> > If you have a cdorm and a burner I cable like this:
> > primary master, hard drive.
> > Primary slave, empty
> > Secondary master, cd burner, secondary slave, cdrom.
> > I don't on-the-fly copy from cd to burner, I let the computer
> > put it on the hard drive as an intermediate step.
> >
> > Regards, Kerry.
> > On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > > I've never bilt a computer, but i've taken about 100 apart.  In most
cases,
> > > and most of the machines I gutted were older ones, the cdrom is slaved
to
> > > the hard drive witch is the master.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

--
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

The hardware has a drive select pin. setting it to one value accesses master
and setting it to the other accesses slave. Only one state can ever be
set on the cable so it stands to reason that you can not access _both_ devices at once
the system must share the bus between both devices.
Often this can be done if both devices play nice or if one device is rarely used
but it does limit performance if both devices want significent time
on the bus or are beeing polled for some status bit to change.

Regards, Kerry.
On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 02:33:52AM -0500, Pete wrote:
> 
>   I thought this only applied if you were using 16 bit drivers?  Maybe it
> was a miss print in a microscoff artical.
>   Pete
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 11:04:33AM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote:
> > > This is not a good idea unless ide channels are limited.
> > > The reason for this is that once one device is accessing the ide bus the
> other
> > > device doesn't get a look in until the first device has finished.
> > > The practical upshot of this is that installs from cdromt o hard disk go
> really slowly because
> > > both devices want contention on the ide bus.
> > > With the multitude of IDE devices these days it can be difficult to get
> the combinations right.
> > > Slaving a cdrom to a burner is ok provided you don't want to do
> on-the-fly
> > > copying with your cdrom to burner.
> > > Slaving a burner to a hard drive can also cause problems if your i/o
> subsystem is not up to
> > > keeping both devices busy.
> > > If you have a cdrom only put it master on the secondary controller if
> you don't have 2 hard drives or put it as
> > > slave on the secondary if you have a hard drive on both controllers.
> > > If you have a cdorm and a burner I cable like this:
> > > primary master, hard drive.
> > > Primary slave, empty
> > > Secondary master, cd burner, secondary slave, cdrom.
> > > I don't on-the-fly copy from cd to burner, I let the computer
> > > put it on the hard drive as an intermediate step.
> > >
> > > Regards, Kerry.
> > > On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > > > I've never bilt a computer, but i've taken about 100 apart.  In most
> cases,
> > > > and most of the machines I gutted were older ones, the cdrom is slaved
> to
> > > > the hard drive witch is the master.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
> kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> 
> --
> Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
> kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

Hi, Kerry!
So, if I leave my setup as it is working now, that is, HDD as a master on
IDE1 and CDROM as a master on IDE0, is it going to work worse than in a
regular setup? Since it is working, I thought I would not want to touch it
again.
Also, since the cable came with my motherboard, which is supports ATA100,
can I assume that this is a 80-wire cable?
Vic

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kerry Hoath" <kerry@gotss.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive


> This is not a good idea unless ide channels are limited.
> The reason for this is that once one device is accessing the ide bus the
other
> device doesn't get a look in until the first device has finished.
> The practical upshot of this is that installs from cdromt o hard disk go
really slowly because
> both devices want contention on the ide bus.
> With the multitude of IDE devices these days it can be difficult to get
the combinations right.
> Slaving a cdrom to a burner is ok provided you don't want to do on-the-fly
> copying with your cdrom to burner.
> Slaving a burner to a hard drive can also cause problems if your i/o
subsystem is not up to
> keeping both devices busy.
> If you have a cdrom only put it master on the secondary controller if you
don't have 2 hard drives or put it as
> slave on the secondary if you have a hard drive on both controllers.
> If you have a cdorm and a burner I cable like this:
> primary master, hard drive.
> Primary slave, empty
> Secondary master, cd burner, secondary slave, cdrom.
> I don't on-the-fly copy from cd to burner, I let the computer
> put it on the hard drive as an intermediate step.
>
> Regards, Kerry.
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > I've never bilt a computer, but i've taken about 100 apart.  In most
cases,
> > and most of the machines I gutted were older ones, the cdrom is slaved
to
> > the hard drive witch is the master.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
> Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

The motherboard is Asus P2B which is about 4 years old. The hard drive is
Western Digital and about 2 years old.
I have everything set to auto in BIOS, the HDD set to master.
Vic

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete" <persuric@ameritech.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive


>
>   Can you check your bios/cmos settings?  Some bioses require cdrom drives
> to be set to none and others have a cdrom selection while yet other bioses
> will work whith auto or none set for the cdrom.  If the hard drive is les
> than (8 gig? the bioses limit? or maybe 2 or 4 gig limit?) set up the hard
> drive whith the C H S values in cmos.  Usually setting the P I O  and the
U
> D M A  modes to auto will work.  There may be a couple of settings like L
B
> A (larg block addressing) or I think another one called just large mode.
If
> your lucky you can set this one to auto. More likely there either an
on/off
> or check box to check.  I geus what I am really trying to say is check the
> settings in bios/cmos for the hard drive you are trying to install.
> Depending on what hard drive you have there may be two jumpers to set.
One
> for master / slave etc and another one for cylinder limitation.  The
> cylinder limitation for example: if you have a bios/cmos whith an 8 gig
> limit and your hard drive is 10 gig, you would set both master and
cylinder
> limitation jumpers.  Some computers wont boot unless the cylinder limit
> jumper is set to occomidate the limit in bios/cmos most I have seen will
> boot any way so not booting could tell you some thing.  Usually no jumpers
> on the cdrom meens slave. Also most cdrom and hard drives have jumpers
for:
> master, slave and cable select.  You may have a system whith cable select,
> in which case set all drives to cable select (CS).  The cable select, this
> setting detirmines by possission which drive is master and which one is
> slave.  How new are the hard drive and cdrom and how old is the
motherboard?
>   Pete
>
> > Hell, listers!
> > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope
> you
> > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive
to
> > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...",
> but
> > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
> IDE0,
> > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > Can you suggest something?
> > Victor
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Gregory Nowak]

Since he's building a new machine, his bios probably has a drive limit way over 8 gb.
Greg


On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 02:19:40AM -0500, Pete wrote:
> 
>   Can you check your bios/cmos settings?  Some bioses require cdrom drives
> to be set to none and others have a cdrom selection while yet other bioses
> will work whith auto or none set for the cdrom.  If the hard drive is les
> than (8 gig? the bioses limit? or maybe 2 or 4 gig limit?) set up the hard
> drive whith the C H S values in cmos.  Usually setting the P I O  and the  U
> D M A  modes to auto will work.  There may be a couple of settings like L B
> A (larg block addressing) or I think another one called just large mode.  If
> your lucky you can set this one to auto. More likely there either an on/off
> or check box to check.  I geus what I am really trying to say is check the
> settings in bios/cmos for the hard drive you are trying to install.
> Depending on what hard drive you have there may be two jumpers to set.  One
> for master / slave etc and another one for cylinder limitation.  The
> cylinder limitation for example: if you have a bios/cmos whith an 8 gig
> limit and your hard drive is 10 gig, you would set both master and cylinder
> limitation jumpers.  Some computers wont boot unless the cylinder limit
> jumper is set to occomidate the limit in bios/cmos most I have seen will
> boot any way so not booting could tell you some thing.  Usually no jumpers
> on the cdrom meens slave. Also most cdrom and hard drives have jumpers for:
> master, slave and cable select.  You may have a system whith cable select,
> in which case set all drives to cable select (CS).  The cable select, this
> setting detirmines by possission which drive is master and which one is
> slave.  How new are the hard drive and cdrom and how old is the motherboard?
>   Pete
> 
> > Hell, listers!
> > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope
> you
> > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive to
> > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...",
> but
> > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
> IDE0,
> > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > Can you suggest something?
> > Victor
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

No, I ran a 20 GB drive on this machine.
Vic

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive


> Since he's building a new machine, his bios probably has a drive limit way
over 8 gb.
> Greg
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 02:19:40AM -0500, Pete wrote:
> >
> >   Can you check your bios/cmos settings?  Some bioses require cdrom
drives
> > to be set to none and others have a cdrom selection while yet other
bioses
> > will work whith auto or none set for the cdrom.  If the hard drive is
les
> > than (8 gig? the bioses limit? or maybe 2 or 4 gig limit?) set up the
hard
> > drive whith the C H S values in cmos.  Usually setting the P I O  and
the  U
> > D M A  modes to auto will work.  There may be a couple of settings like
L B
> > A (larg block addressing) or I think another one called just large mode.
If
> > your lucky you can set this one to auto. More likely there either an
on/off
> > or check box to check.  I geus what I am really trying to say is check
the
> > settings in bios/cmos for the hard drive you are trying to install.
> > Depending on what hard drive you have there may be two jumpers to set.
One
> > for master / slave etc and another one for cylinder limitation.  The
> > cylinder limitation for example: if you have a bios/cmos whith an 8 gig
> > limit and your hard drive is 10 gig, you would set both master and
cylinder
> > limitation jumpers.  Some computers wont boot unless the cylinder limit
> > jumper is set to occomidate the limit in bios/cmos most I have seen will
> > boot any way so not booting could tell you some thing.  Usually no
jumpers
> > on the cdrom meens slave. Also most cdrom and hard drives have jumpers
for:
> > master, slave and cable select.  You may have a system whith cable
select,
> > in which case set all drives to cable select (CS).  The cable select,
this
> > setting detirmines by possission which drive is master and which one is
> > slave.  How new are the hard drive and cdrom and how old is the
motherboard?
> >   Pete
> >
> > > Hell, listers!
> > > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists.
Hope
> > you
> > > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive
to
> > > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk
failed...",
> > but
> > > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
> > IDE0,
> > > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning?
I
> > > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > > Can you suggest something?
> > > Victor
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

If the system boots and works then leave it alone.
That is a strange setup but should be fine. Yes the cable should be an 80-wire
cable. if you run a test
hdparm -t /dev/hdx
replace hdx with your hard drive letter and get >16 megabytes per second udma
is active. If it is not then run
hdparm -d1 /dev/hdx
then run the hdparm -t /dev/hdx
your system board will either give you 2-3 times the drive speed or Linux will
shut down dma if it is not reliable.

Regards, Kerry.
On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 03:27:27PM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> Hi, Kerry!
> So, if I leave my setup as it is working now, that is, HDD as a master on
> IDE1 and CDROM as a master on IDE0, is it going to work worse than in a
> regular setup? Since it is working, I thought I would not want to touch it
> again.
> Also, since the cable came with my motherboard, which is supports ATA100,
> can I assume that this is a 80-wire cable?
> Vic
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kerry Hoath" <kerry@gotss.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 4:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive
> 
> 
> > This is not a good idea unless ide channels are limited.
> > The reason for this is that once one device is accessing the ide bus the
> other
> > device doesn't get a look in until the first device has finished.
> > The practical upshot of this is that installs from cdromt o hard disk go
> really slowly because
> > both devices want contention on the ide bus.
> > With the multitude of IDE devices these days it can be difficult to get
> the combinations right.
> > Slaving a cdrom to a burner is ok provided you don't want to do on-the-fly
> > copying with your cdrom to burner.
> > Slaving a burner to a hard drive can also cause problems if your i/o
> subsystem is not up to
> > keeping both devices busy.
> > If you have a cdrom only put it master on the secondary controller if you
> don't have 2 hard drives or put it as
> > slave on the secondary if you have a hard drive on both controllers.
> > If you have a cdorm and a burner I cable like this:
> > primary master, hard drive.
> > Primary slave, empty
> > Secondary master, cd burner, secondary slave, cdrom.
> > I don't on-the-fly copy from cd to burner, I let the computer
> > put it on the hard drive as an intermediate step.
> >
> > Regards, Kerry.
> > On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 08:02:31PM -0500, Alex Snow wrote:
> > > I've never bilt a computer, but i've taken about 100 apart.  In most
> cases,
> > > and most of the machines I gutted were older ones, the cdrom is slaved
> to
> > > the hard drive witch is the master.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
> kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Richard Villa]

If you set the drive to cable select, you need a special I D E cable 
that has a twist in it.
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Pete wrote:

> 
>   Can you check your bios/cmos settings?  Some bioses require cdrom drives
> to be set to none and others have a cdrom selection while yet other bioses
> will work whith auto or none set for the cdrom.  If the hard drive is les
> than (8 gig? the bioses limit? or maybe 2 or 4 gig limit?) set up the hard
> drive whith the C H S values in cmos.  Usually setting the P I O  and the  U
> D M A  modes to auto will work.  There may be a couple of settings like L B
> A (larg block addressing) or I think another one called just large mode.  If
> your lucky you can set this one to auto. More likely there either an on/off
> or check box to check.  I geus what I am really trying to say is check the
> settings in bios/cmos for the hard drive you are trying to install.
> Depending on what hard drive you have there may be two jumpers to set.  One
> for master / slave etc and another one for cylinder limitation.  The
> cylinder limitation for example: if you have a bios/cmos whith an 8 gig
> limit and your hard drive is 10 gig, you would set both master and cylinder
> limitation jumpers.  Some computers wont boot unless the cylinder limit
> jumper is set to occomidate the limit in bios/cmos most I have seen will
> boot any way so not booting could tell you some thing.  Usually no jumpers
> on the cdrom meens slave. Also most cdrom and hard drives have jumpers for:
> master, slave and cable select.  You may have a system whith cable select,
> in which case set all drives to cable select (CS).  The cable select, this
> setting detirmines by possission which drive is master and which one is
> slave.  How new are the hard drive and cdrom and how old is the motherboard?
>   Pete
> 
> > Hell, listers!
> > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists. Hope
> you
> > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive to
> > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk failed...",
> but
> > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
> IDE0,
> > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning? I
> > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > Can you suggest something?
> > Victor
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
It is better to give then to receive.  You don't believe me, just ask a 
boxer.

Richard

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Gregory Nowak]

You said in a previous post that the board was 4 years old. What's the highest hd capacity that this board's bios supports?
Greg


On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 03:41:41PM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> No, I ran a 20 GB drive on this machine.
> Vic
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1@uic.edu>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive
> 
> 
> > Since he's building a new machine, his bios probably has a drive limit way
> over 8 gb.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 02:19:40AM -0500, Pete wrote:
> > >
> > >   Can you check your bios/cmos settings?  Some bioses require cdrom
> drives
> > > to be set to none and others have a cdrom selection while yet other
> bioses
> > > will work whith auto or none set for the cdrom.  If the hard drive is
> les
> > > than (8 gig? the bioses limit? or maybe 2 or 4 gig limit?) set up the
> hard
> > > drive whith the C H S values in cmos.  Usually setting the P I O  and
> the  U
> > > D M A  modes to auto will work.  There may be a couple of settings like
> L B
> > > A (larg block addressing) or I think another one called just large mode.
> If
> > > your lucky you can set this one to auto. More likely there either an
> on/off
> > > or check box to check.  I geus what I am really trying to say is check
> the
> > > settings in bios/cmos for the hard drive you are trying to install.
> > > Depending on what hard drive you have there may be two jumpers to set.
> One
> > > for master / slave etc and another one for cylinder limitation.  The
> > > cylinder limitation for example: if you have a bios/cmos whith an 8 gig
> > > limit and your hard drive is 10 gig, you would set both master and
> cylinder
> > > limitation jumpers.  Some computers wont boot unless the cylinder limit
> > > jumper is set to occomidate the limit in bios/cmos most I have seen will
> > > boot any way so not booting could tell you some thing.  Usually no
> jumpers
> > > on the cdrom meens slave. Also most cdrom and hard drives have jumpers
> for:
> > > master, slave and cable select.  You may have a system whith cable
> select,
> > > in which case set all drives to cable select (CS).  The cable select,
> this
> > > setting detirmines by possission which drive is master and which one is
> > > slave.  How new are the hard drive and cdrom and how old is the
> motherboard?
> > >   Pete
> > >
> > > > Hell, listers!
> > > > I know some of you, especially Kerry, are big hardware specialists.
> Hope
> > > you
> > > > will be able to advise something for me this time as well.
> > > > I am putting together a new machine. Whenever I connect the hard drive
> to
> > > > the IDE0 and CDROM to IDE1, both on master, I get "hard disk
> failed...",
> > > but
> > > > CDROM is found. However, if I connect hard drive to IDE1 and CDROM to
> > > IDE0,
> > > > both to master, then both are recognized fine. Why is this hapenning?
> I
> > > > tried these combinations several times, and the same result comes out.
> > > > Can you suggest something?
> > > > Victor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

Well, I don't know what the biggest size the motherboard supports, but I've
been running my 20GB hard disk with no probs before on this same
motherboard.
Vic

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

Some boards don
't like talking to drives over 28gb or so. but I doubt this is
your problem. 
The reality is that you can only get at  8.4gb of disk in chs mode
i.e. standard int13. It works like this:
int 13 function call 2 read sector.
registers:
ah=2 al=number of sectors.
es:bx points at area of memory to receive data.
dh=head 1-255
dl=drive letter: 0 for a: 1 for b: 80 for hard disk 1 81 for hard disk 2.
cl=cylinder 0-255
ch=sector to start reading from 0-63 top 2 bits of ch are top 2 bits of cylinder.
This gives us a sector range of 1-63 and
a cylinder range of 0-1023.
1024 cylinders 255 heads and 63 sectors per track gives you a maximum legacy
capacity of 8.4gb or so.
To read beyond that you need to use LBA (Linear block addressing)
and to use that in bios you must use the phoenix int13 extentions.
Dos can't use int 13 extentions or at least
versions up to 6.22 can't.
Dos also can't boot beyond 2gb on a disk due to a calculation bug in the default dos boot sector.
Newer lilo versions i.e. 20 and up can use int13 extentions.
Older versions can not. If your bios has int13 extentions most things after 1994 do you can place your linux partitions wherever assuming ide.
Scsi it all depends on the onboard scsi bios.
Lilo 20 and up can boot just about anything on a new machine. lilo <20 or
a bad bios and you'll need to keep linux /boot partition below the first 8.4gb so
the bios can load the kernel or stick a floppy in the drive.
Yes I have no life but perhapse this may clear up some of the 
incomplete/missinformation on this topic floating around.
Once the kernel is booted linux's ide driver uses lba when available and can access
up to 4 terabytes since kernel 1.1.51 or so.
Getting the kernel loaded still requires co-operation from the bios and your boot loader of choice
lilo grub silo nt boot loader system commander etc.

Regards, Kerry.
On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 12:14:56AM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> Well, I don't know what the biggest size the motherboard supports, but I've
> been running my 20GB hard disk with no probs before on this same
> motherboard.
> Vic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

Hi, Kerry!
I think I am going to collect your very informative messages. Are there any
copyrights on them?!
When I ran Western Digital Lifeguard floppy, it told me that int13H is not
supported and that BIOS is not controling your device.
Also, a strange thing happens here.
When I switched 40-pin cable for 80-pin cable, Windows XP would not start,
and only after I, in despair, reflashed BIOS, everything started to work
normally. Don't know what to think about all of this.
Victor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kerry Hoath" <kerry@gotss.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Strange things with my hard drive


> Some boards don
> 't like talking to drives over 28gb or so. but I doubt this is
> your problem.
> The reality is that you can only get at  8.4gb of disk in chs mode
> i.e. standard int13. It works like this:
> int 13 function call 2 read sector.
> registers:
> ah=2 al=number of sectors.
> es:bx points at area of memory to receive data.
> dh=head 1-255
> dl=drive letter: 0 for a: 1 for b: 80 for hard disk 1 81 for hard disk 2.
> cl=cylinder 0-255
> ch=sector to start reading from 0-63 top 2 bits of ch are top 2 bits of
cylinder.
> This gives us a sector range of 1-63 and
> a cylinder range of 0-1023.
> 1024 cylinders 255 heads and 63 sectors per track gives you a maximum
legacy
> capacity of 8.4gb or so.
> To read beyond that you need to use LBA (Linear block addressing)
> and to use that in bios you must use the phoenix int13 extentions.
> Dos can't use int 13 extentions or at least
> versions up to 6.22 can't.
> Dos also can't boot beyond 2gb on a disk due to a calculation bug in the
default dos boot sector.
> Newer lilo versions i.e. 20 and up can use int13 extentions.
> Older versions can not. If your bios has int13 extentions most things
after 1994 do you can place your linux partitions wherever assuming ide.
> Scsi it all depends on the onboard scsi bios.
> Lilo 20 and up can boot just about anything on a new machine. lilo <20 or
> a bad bios and you'll need to keep linux /boot partition below the first
8.4gb so
> the bios can load the kernel or stick a floppy in the drive.
> Yes I have no life but perhapse this may clear up some of the
> incomplete/missinformation on this topic floating around.
> Once the kernel is booted linux's ide driver uses lba when available and
can access
> up to 4 terabytes since kernel 1.1.51 or so.
> Getting the kernel loaded still requires co-operation from the bios and
your boot loader of choice
> lilo grub silo nt boot loader system commander etc.
>
> Regards, Kerry.
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 12:14:56AM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> > Well, I don't know what the biggest size the motherboard supports, but
I've
> > been running my 20GB hard disk with no probs before on this same
> > motherboard.
> > Vic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
>
> --
> Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or
kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>
>

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Kerry Hoath]

How big is the drive you are trying to use? Is the boot
partiton below the 8.4gb limit? That is strange that int13 is not
controlling the device it should. If your motherboard has udma/66 or udma/100
controllers it needs the 80-wire cable.
Some motherboards and drives don't get on so wd released a  utility to disable udma/66
with a loss in performance.
Does lifeguard show any drive errors? If it does it's the drive's fault.
Is the bios the latest that is available for the board? A bios upgrade
can fix hard disk recognition problems.
Feel free to summarize precisely what is in the machine
and how it is hooked up.
Motherboard type and bios date if known. processer. ram. type and number
of drives. Model numbers of cdrom and hard drives hdd most important.
I can't see anything so far that jumps out at me, but something might ring alarm
bells when I see the system config.
No there are no copyrights on my messages;
I just get into a mood where I feel it necessary to rant about something
I know things about to either summarize points given,
clear missinformation (cable select one slave on a cable) etc.

There is a FAQ on ide and the like it is called the Fast ata faq or something
available on news.answers look for enhanced ide/ata faq or similar.

Regards, Kerry.
On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 05:05:42PM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> Hi, Kerry!
> I think I am going to collect your very informative messages. Are there any
> copyrights on them?!
> When I ran Western Digital Lifeguard floppy, it told me that int13H is not
> supported and that BIOS is not controling your device.
> Also, a strange thing happens here.
> When I switched 40-pin cable for 80-pin cable, Windows XP would not start,
> and only after I, in despair, reflashed BIOS, everything started to work
> normally. Don't know what to think about all of this.
> Victor
> 

-- 
Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Gregory Nowak]

I too want to thank you for your ranting. I certainly find it very informative, and I enjoy learning about this stuff even though I've built 2 machines and dismanteled 3 486s, and repaired 2 other machines.
Greg


On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 12:59:31AM +0800, Kerry Hoath wrote:
> How big is the drive you are trying to use? Is the boot
> partiton below the 8.4gb limit? That is strange that int13 is not
> controlling the device it should. If your motherboard has udma/66 or udma/100
> controllers it needs the 80-wire cable.
> Some motherboards and drives don't get on so wd released a  utility to disable udma/66
> with a loss in performance.
> Does lifeguard show any drive errors? If it does it's the drive's fault.
> Is the bios the latest that is available for the board? A bios upgrade
> can fix hard disk recognition problems.
> Feel free to summarize precisely what is in the machine
> and how it is hooked up.
> Motherboard type and bios date if known. processer. ram. type and number
> of drives. Model numbers of cdrom and hard drives hdd most important.
> I can't see anything so far that jumps out at me, but something might ring alarm
> bells when I see the system config.
> No there are no copyrights on my messages;
> I just get into a mood where I feel it necessary to rant about something
> I know things about to either summarize points given,
> clear missinformation (cable select one slave on a cable) etc.
> 
> There is a FAQ on ide and the like it is called the Fast ata faq or something
> available on news.answers look for enhanced ide/ata faq or similar.
> 
> Regards, Kerry.
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 05:05:42PM +0100, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> > Hi, Kerry!
> > I think I am going to collect your very informative messages. Are there any
> > copyrights on them?!
> > When I ran Western Digital Lifeguard floppy, it told me that int13H is not
> > supported and that BIOS is not controling your device.
> > Also, a strange thing happens here.
> > When I switched 40-pin cable for 80-pin cable, Windows XP would not start,
> > and only after I, in despair, reflashed BIOS, everything started to work
> > normally. Don't know what to think about all of this.
> > Victor
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Kerry Hoath:  kerry@gotss.net kerry@gotss.eu.org or  kerry@gotss.spice.net.au
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: Strange things with my hard drive

[Victor Tsaran]

OK, let me try step-by-step.
Motherboard: Asus P2B, latest BIOS from March 2000.
Does not support UDMA66/100.
CPU: PII 350MHZ.
Clock: 100MHZ.
RAM: 327MB, SDRAM.
Drive: WD, 54  RPM, 10GB.
I don't think the drive supports UDMA66/100, so I disabled it just in case.
Currently: HDD on IDE1 as master; CDROM on IDE0 as master. Presently, I
connected both using regular 40-pin cables. Also tried 80-pin conductor for
HDD, but no change.
Any more info?
Thanks,
Vic