New Debian installation and confused.

New Debian installation and confused.

[Dan Murphy]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Murphy" <mweeby@verizon.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:46 PM
Subject: New Debian installation and confused.


> Hello listers.
> I recently downloaded the latest netinst iso from
people.debian.org/shane
> and after getting through the install, on my first boot, I think it puts
> me into some graphical thing.
> Speakup only says "blank", and it just beeps when I press enter.
> How do I get back to a text console, and is there any info on the CD
> describing how I should have done this differently.  I chose "standard
> system" when I installed software.  Perhaps I should have used another
> choice.
> Help is appreciated.
> thanks.
>
> dan Murphy <mweeby@verizon.net>
> Skype ID: danmint
> AIM:mweeby2000
>

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sounds like you might be in x. What I would do is ctrl+alt+f1, login
as root including your root password, run telinit 2, and then once
you're back in text mode, change the default run level to 2 in
/etc/inittab. I don't know if you're in fact in x, and I haven't tried
this, so it may not work.

I find it interesting that you were able to login after choosing the
standard install. When I did that while installing debian on a virtual
machine about a week ago, choosing standard install happily got rid of
the speakup kernel already installed in the system during the kernel
selection stage, and didn't replace it with another one.  Also, as far
as I could tell, you don't get x/gnome/whatever in the standard
install, but you do get them in the desktop install. So, you might not
be in x at all, though it sounds like you are, or you mistakenly chose
desktop install when you meant to choose standard. 

I personally found when putting debian on my vm, that the best thing
that worked out for me was to not choose an install, just leaving the
minimal set of packages, and install what I needed after reboot by
hand, which of course brings in any needed dependencies as well. Hth.

Greg


On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 09:02:24PM -0400, Dan Murphy wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Murphy" <mweeby@verizon.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:46 PM
> Subject: New Debian installation and confused.
> 
> 
> > Hello listers.
> > I recently downloaded the latest netinst iso from
> people.debian.org/shane
> > and after getting through the install, on my first boot, I think it puts
> > me into some graphical thing.
> > Speakup only says "blank", and it just beeps when I press enter.
> > How do I get back to a text console, and is there any info on the CD
> > describing how I should have done this differently.  I chose "standard
> > system" when I installed software.  Perhaps I should have used another
> > choice.
> > Help is appreciated.
> > thanks.
> >
> > dan Murphy <mweeby@verizon.net>
> > Skype ID: danmint
> > AIM:mweeby2000
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Dan Murphy]

thanks.  Alt+ctrl+f1 got me back to text mode but I think the default
runlevel is already 2.
I think the reason I choose a pre-selected option like standard system is
that coming from Slackware, the last time I played with Debian, I didn't
know what I needed to install half the time and thought I might be able to
save some time.
Now I have to look at inittab again, but I'm fairly sure it said 2.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: New Debian installation and confused.


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Sounds like you might be in x. What I would do is ctrl+alt+f1, login
> as root including your root password, run telinit 2, and then once
> you're back in text mode, change the default run level to 2 in
> /etc/inittab. I don't know if you're in fact in x, and I haven't tried
> this, so it may not work.
>
> I find it interesting that you were able to login after choosing the
> standard install. When I did that while installing debian on a virtual
> machine about a week ago, choosing standard install happily got rid of
> the speakup kernel already installed in the system during the kernel
> selection stage, and didn't replace it with another one.  Also, as far
> as I could tell, you don't get x/gnome/whatever in the standard
> install, but you do get them in the desktop install. So, you might not
> be in x at all, though it sounds like you are, or you mistakenly chose
> desktop install when you meant to choose standard.
>
> I personally found when putting debian on my vm, that the best thing
> that worked out for me was to not choose an install, just leaving the
> minimal set of packages, and install what I needed after reboot by
> hand, which of course brings in any needed dependencies as well. Hth.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 09:02:24PM -0400, Dan Murphy wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Dan Murphy" <mweeby@verizon.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:46 PM
> > Subject: New Debian installation and confused.
> >
> >
> > > Hello listers.
> > > I recently downloaded the latest netinst iso from
> > people.debian.org/shane
> > > and after getting through the install, on my first boot, I think it
puts
> > > me into some graphical thing.
> > > Speakup only says "blank", and it just beeps when I press enter.
> > > How do I get back to a text console, and is there any info on the CD
> > > describing how I should have done this differently.  I chose
"standard
> > > system" when I installed software.  Perhaps I should have used
another
> > > choice.
> > > Help is appreciated.
> > > thanks.
> > >
> > > dan Murphy <mweeby@verizon.net>
> > > Skype ID: danmint
> > > AIM:mweeby2000
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> - -- 
> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>
> - --
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>
> iD8DBQFGmtP37s9z/XlyUyARAnozAKCLHxaW5rItwRtUiTnmnZHI+gN2iACeKIAT
> PgOM9swy9Nnt7pZjKiXwEnQ=
> =N6yB
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Dan Murphy]

Well I can now get to a text console consistently with ctrl-alt-f1, but
when looking at /etc/inittab, it appears the default runlevel is already
set as 2
I do like some of the changes made in the installer, though.
I'm sure I'll have more questions as I plod along here.
Thanks.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gregory Nowak" <greg@romuald.net.eu.org>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: New Debian installation and confused.


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Sounds like you might be in x. What I would do is ctrl+alt+f1, login
> as root including your root password, run telinit 2, and then once
> you're back in text mode, change the default run level to 2 in
> /etc/inittab. I don't know if you're in fact in x, and I haven't tried
> this, so it may not work.
>
> I find it interesting that you were able to login after choosing the
> standard install. When I did that while installing debian on a virtual
> machine about a week ago, choosing standard install happily got rid of
> the speakup kernel already installed in the system during the kernel
> selection stage, and didn't replace it with another one.  Also, as far
> as I could tell, you don't get x/gnome/whatever in the standard
> install, but you do get them in the desktop install. So, you might not
> be in x at all, though it sounds like you are, or you mistakenly chose
> desktop install when you meant to choose standard.
>
> I personally found when putting debian on my vm, that the best thing
> that worked out for me was to not choose an install, just leaving the
> minimal set of packages, and install what I needed after reboot by
> hand, which of course brings in any needed dependencies as well. Hth.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 09:02:24PM -0400, Dan Murphy wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Dan Murphy" <mweeby@verizon.net>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:46 PM
> > Subject: New Debian installation and confused.
> >
> >
> > > Hello listers.
> > > I recently downloaded the latest netinst iso from
> > people.debian.org/shane
> > > and after getting through the install, on my first boot, I think it
puts
> > > me into some graphical thing.
> > > Speakup only says "blank", and it just beeps when I press enter.
> > > How do I get back to a text console, and is there any info on the CD
> > > describing how I should have done this differently.  I chose
"standard
> > > system" when I installed software.  Perhaps I should have used
another
> > > choice.
> > > Help is appreciated.
> > > thanks.
> > >
> > > dan Murphy <mweeby@verizon.net>
> > > Skype ID: danmint
> > > AIM:mweeby2000
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> - -- 
> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
>
> - --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFGmtP37s9z/XlyUyARAnozAKCLHxaW5rItwRtUiTnmnZHI+gN2iACeKIAT
> PgOM9swy9Nnt7pZjKiXwEnQ=
> =N6yB
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.

First question, do you plan to use Gnome?

If not, you can remove some packages and get the system back to a text login.

You need to remove the package called the display manager.  It is probably gdm, but it might also be xdm or kdm.

Try typing:

apt-get remove gdm 

as root.  If it succeeds, the next time you boot you will be at tty1 in text mode.
If it fails, try running it with xdm or kdm.

Hope this helps.

          Kenny

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Dan Murphy]

No, I don't plan to use gnome, and the idea you gave me about removing the
gdm package seems to have fixed it.
Thanks Kenny.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kenny Hitt" <kenny@hittsjunk.net>
To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
<speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: New Debian installation and confused.


> Hi.
>
> First question, do you plan to use Gnome?
>
> If not, you can remove some packages and get the system back to a text
login.
>
> You need to remove the package called the display manager.  It is
probably gdm, but it might also be xdm or kdm.
>
> Try typing:
>
> apt-get remove gdm
>
> as root.  If it succeeds, the next time you boot you will be at tty1 in
text mode.
> If it fails, try running it with xdm or kdm.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>           Kenny
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Kenny, or anyone else who knows, how is it that the default run level
in /etc/inittab was still 2, but gdm/kdm/xdm started up anyway? I
thought that run level 2 meant that the system was supposed to boot
into text mode, and that the gui login managers weren't supposed to
start up.

Greg


On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 05:05:04AM -0500, Kenny Hitt wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> First question, do you plan to use Gnome?
> 
> If not, you can remove some packages and get the system back to a text login.
> 
> You need to remove the package called the display manager.  It is probably gdm, but it might also be xdm or kdm.
> 
> Try typing:
> 
> apt-get remove gdm 
> 
> as root.  If it succeeds, the next time you boot you will be at tty1 in text mode.
> If it fails, try running it with xdm or kdm.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
>           Kenny
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

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Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Chuck Hallenbeck]

If I'm not mistaken, Debian does not differentiate among run levels 2
through 5. They are all the same out of the box. The user is welcome to
fashion them differently if he wishes, but unless he does so, 2 is the
same as any other run level (except of course 0, 1, or 6.

Or has that changed with etch? 

Chuck


On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 08:56:33AM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> Kenny, or anyone else who knows, how is it that the default run level
> in /etc/inittab was still 2, but gdm/kdm/xdm started up anyway? I
> thought that run level 2 meant that the system was supposed to boot
> into text mode, and that the gui login managers weren't supposed to
> start up.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 05:05:04AM -0500, Kenny Hitt wrote:
> > Hi.
> > 
> > First question, do you plan to use Gnome?
> > 
> > If not, you can remove some packages and get the system back to a text login.
> > 
> > You need to remove the package called the display manager.  It is probably gdm, but it might also be xdm or kdm.
> > 
> > Try typing:
> > 
> > apt-get remove gdm 
> > 
> > as root.  If it succeeds, the next time you boot you will be at tty1 in text mode.
> > If it fails, try running it with xdm or kdm.
> > 
> > Hope this helps.
> > 
> >           Kenny
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> -- 
> web site: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org
> gpg public key: http://www.romuald.net.eu.org/pubkey.asc
> skype: gregn1
> (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first)
> 
> --
> Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-manager@EU.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

-- 
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My new web site location is at: http://hallenbeck.ftml.net
 The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Gaijin]

Kenny Hitt <kenny@hittsjunk.net> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> First question, do you plan to use Gnome?
>
> If not, you can remove some packages and get the system back to a text login.
>
> You need to remove the package called the display manager.  It is probably gdm, but it might also be xdm or kdm.
>
> Try typing:
>
> apt-get remove gdm 
>
> as root.  If it succeeds, the next time you boot you will be at tty1 in text mode.
> If it fails, try running it with xdm or kdm.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>           Kenny
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Gaijin]

Kenny Hitt <kenny@hittsjunk.net> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> First question, do you plan to use Gnome?
>
> If not, you can remove some packages and get the system back to a text login.
>
> You need to remove the package called the display manager.  It is probably gdm, but it might also be xdm or kdm.
>
> Try typing:
>
> apt-get remove gdm 
>
> as root.  If it succeeds, the next time you boot you will be at tty1 in text mode.
> If it fails, try running it with xdm or kdm.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>           Kenny
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Gaijin]

[-- Attachment #1: parham.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 2291 bytes --]

> Kenny, or anyone else who knows, how is it that the default run level
> in /etc/inittab was still 2, but gdm/kdm/xdm started up anyway? I
> thought that run level 2 meant that the system was supposed to boot
> into text mode, and that the gui login managers weren't supposed to
> start up.

    Run levels 2 through 5 are the same in Debian, or at least they were in 'Woody.'  Debian basically uses just one runlevel, settling for a *working* single-user setup for complete novices.  
    Debian should initially start up in runlevel 3, but dpkg's install scripts don't bother to assume which runlevel you like to use, so they just install the same startup symlinks in all runlevels (meaning 2 thru 5).  Debian just tries to make what you install work, regardless.  If you want to restrict services, you need to add/remove their symlinks from the appropriate /etc/rc?.d directories.
    All of the init scripts are located in /etc/init.d, and are pointed to by symlinks located in /etc/rc#.d (where '#' is a number from 0 to 6).  If the symlink begins with an 'S', the script is started with the word 'start' and if it begins with a 'K', it appends the word 'stop' when the script is run.  Following the 'S' or 'K' modifier is a number from 00 through 99.  Debian has set things up so that each symlink is executed in numerical order.  If you're running in runlevel 2, the entire contents of /etc/rc2.d are executed.  If this has been changed in 'Sarge,' then the following may not be applicable. <sighs>  The following command is the (ahem) "proper" way to restrict X display managers in Debian to runlevel 5: <winces>

rm /etc/rc[2-4].d/S99[gkx]dm

    That *should* remove the offending symlinks from runlevels 2 through 4, and leave runlevel 0, 1, 5, and 6 alone.  Or if you plan on staying with runlevel 2, you can just:

rm /etc/rc2.d/S99[gkx]dm

    That will remove all display manager links from runlevel 2 alone, as the display manager is usually the last (99th) service started.  I hope it's still the same in Sarge, else I dunno.

    BTW: Did they tweak mailx so it no longer calls vi to edit message texts?  (At least I found ntpdate to synch the system clock...good thing I still had a backup copy of Debian's /etc dir.)  Anyway, I hope the heads-up helps,

        Michael

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 07:07:07PM +0100, Gaijin wrote:
> rm /etc/rc[2-4].d/S99[gkx]dm
> 
>     That *should* remove the offending symlinks from runlevels 2 through 4, and leave runlevel 0, 1, 5, and 6 alone.  Or if you plan on staying with runlevel 2, you can just:
> 
> rm /etc/rc2.d/S99[gkx]dm
> 

This is of course correct, and it should work. However, technically, the
proper way to do this is via update-rc.d, though I suppose it really
doesn't make a difference which way you do it, since the end result is
still the same regardless of the method used. 

Greg


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Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Gaijin]

[-- Attachment #1: parham.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 440 bytes --]

> the proper way to do this is via update-rc.d

    Kewl.  I didn't know about that one.  All I knew was update-modules and update-menus.  I couldn't find any documentation on how Debian was arranged, so had to parse the scripts I managed to notice.  What does update-rc.d do?  I've been adapting some of my old Debian scripts to Slackware.  Was even thinking of using dpkg to automatically maintain my HOWTOs, RFCs, etc.

        Michael

Re: New Debian installation and confused.

[Gregory Nowak]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 11:56:22PM +0100, Gaijin wrote:
> What does update-rc.d do? 

- From the man page:

"UPDATE-RC.D(8)                                             sysv-rc
UPDATE-RC.D(8)

NAME
       update-rc.d - install and remove System-V style init script
       links
 "

- --- snip ---

"DESCRIPTION
       update-rc.d  updates  the  System  V  style  init  script
       links  /etc/rcrunlevel.d/NNname whose target is the script
       /etc/init.d/name."

Greg



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re: new debian installation and confused

[Jude DaShiell]

Standard system is for standard (sighted people) control-alt-f1 and if 
speakup works, adjust /etc/inittab from id:5 to id:3 then reboot.