Linux without sighted help

Linux without sighted help

[Imbar Golt]

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Hi,

Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a live cd?

Thanks,

Imbar  

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Re: Linux without sighted help

[krishnakant Mane]

On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a live cd?
>
yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to the cd
rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then number 3
and press enter 2 times.
the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press alt +
f2 and type orca.
regards,
Kk
> Thanks,
>
> Imbar
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Imbar Golt]

Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.

Imbar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "krishnakant Mane" <krmane@gmail.com>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a live 
>> cd?
>>
> yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
> after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to the cd
> rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then number 3
> and press enter 2 times.
> the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
> just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press alt +
> f2 and type orca.
> regards,
> Kk
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Imbar
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 
> 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>
> 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Jude DaShiell]

http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd that can 
also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and when the 
disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return.  If you 
have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message saying grml 
finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is only 
necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type swspeak again 
and you'll have speech.


On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:

> Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>
> Imbar
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" <krmane@gmail.com>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
>>  On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>> >  Hi,
>> > 
>> >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a live 
>> >  cd?
>> >
>>  yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>>  after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to the cd
>>  rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then number 3
>>  and press enter 2 times.
>>  the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>>  just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press alt +
>>  f2 and type orca.
>>  regards,
>>  Kk
>> >  Thanks,
>> > 
>> >  Imbar
>> > 
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> 
>>
>>  --
>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>  Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date:
>>  1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>
>> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Kristoffer Gustafsson]

What linuxes can be installed with it?
also, what speech is it included on that disc? festival?
/Kristoffer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd that can 
> also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and when the 
> disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return.  If you 
> have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message saying grml 
> finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is only 
> necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type swspeak again 
> and you'll have speech.
>
>
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>>
>> Imbar
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" <krmane@gmail.com>
>> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>
>>
>>>  On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>>> >  Hi,
>>> >
>>> >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a 
>>> > live cd?
>>> >
>>>  yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>>>  after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to the cd
>>>  rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then number 3
>>>  and press enter 2 times.
>>>  the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>>>  just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press alt +
>>>  f2 and type orca.
>>>  regards,
>>>  Kk
>>> >  Thanks,
>>> >
>>> >  Imbar
>>> >
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>  Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date:
>>>  1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Jude DaShiell]

Grml will be installed, that's its own distribution.  I think it's espeak 
that's the speech for grml.



On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:

> What linuxes can be installed with it?
> also, what speech is it included on that disc? festival?
> /Kristoffer
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
>>  http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd that can
>>  also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and when the
>>  disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return.  If you
>>  have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message saying grml
>>  finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is only
>>  necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type swspeak again
>>  and you'll have speech.
>> 
>>
>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> 
>> >  Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>> > 
>> >  Imbar
>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" <krmane@gmail.com>
>> >  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>> >  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > 
>> > 
>> > >   On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>> > > >   Hi,
>> > > > 
>> > > >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a 
>> > > >  live cd?
>> > > > 
>> > >   yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>> > >   after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to the 
>> > >   cd
>> > >   rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then number 3
>> > >   and press enter 2 times.
>> > >   the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>> > >   just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press alt +
>> > >   f2 and type orca.
>> > >   regards,
>> > >   Kk
>> > > >   Thanks,
>> > > > 
>> > > >   Imbar
>> > > > 
>> > > 
>> > >   _______________________________________________
>> > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>> > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > 
>> > >   --
>> > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > >   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > >   Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date:
>> > >   1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > 
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  Blinux-list mailing list
>> >  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > 
>> > 
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Imbar Golt]

Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't have 
sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any distribution or 
virtual consol that can work under windows or boot when Windows is already 
on the computer?

Thanks,

Imbar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd that can 
> also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and when the 
> disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return.  If you 
> have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message saying grml 
> finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is only 
> necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type swspeak again 
> and you'll have speech.
>
>
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>>
>> Imbar
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" <krmane@gmail.com>
>> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>
>>
>>>  On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>>> >  Hi,
>>> >
>>> >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a 
>>> > live cd?
>>> >
>>>  yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>>>  after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to the cd
>>>  rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then number 3
>>>  and press enter 2 times.
>>>  the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>>>  just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press alt +
>>>  f2 and type orca.
>>>  regards,
>>>  Kk
>>> >  Thanks,
>>> >
>>> >  Imbar
>>> >
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>  Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date:
>>>  1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 
> 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>
> 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Geoff Shang]

Hi,

If you need software speech or if you need the graphical user interface, 
you're going to be completely out of luck with a floppy disk.

There used to be install methods using loadlin, do people even do that 
anymore?

Having your CD in the boot sequence is a good idea anyway so it's something 
I'd highly recommend getting help doing.

Geoff.

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Tom Masterson]

I would love to find a way to make the grub boot menu either speak or 
preferably bring up a braille display so that I don't have to count 
correctly to get the right system.

Tom

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Geoff Shang wrote:

> Hi,
>
> If you need software speech or if you need the graphical user interface, 
> you're going to be completely out of luck with a floppy disk.
>
> There used to be install methods using loadlin, do people even do that 
> anymore?
>
> Having your CD in the boot sequence is a good idea anyway so it's something 
> I'd highly recommend getting help doing.
>
> Geoff.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Jude DaShiell]

No, on that score you're really out of luck.  The boot sequence should 
always have cd's in it somewhere otherwise nobody can protect the security 
of that computer.  Now, what happens if some virus installs and 
successfully blocks access to your cmos?  I'll tell you what happens, it's 
time to throw that computer and all the equipment and software that came 
with it in the garbage because at that point, not even the best sight on 
the planet can help you.



On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:

> Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't have sighted 
> help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any distribution or virtual 
> consol that can work under windows or boot when Windows is already on the 
> computer?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Imbar
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
>>  http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd that can
>>  also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and when the
>>  disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return.  If you
>>  have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message saying grml
>>  finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is only
>>  necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type swspeak again
>>  and you'll have speech.
>> 
>>
>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> 
>> >  Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>> > 
>> >  Imbar
>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" <krmane@gmail.com>
>> >  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>> >  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > 
>> > 
>> > >   On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>> > > >   Hi,
>> > > > 
>> > > >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a 
>> > > >  live cd?
>> > > > 
>> > >   yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>> > >   after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to the 
>> > >   cd
>> > >   rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then number 3
>> > >   and press enter 2 times.
>> > >   the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>> > >   just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press alt +
>> > >   f2 and type orca.
>> > >   regards,
>> > >   Kk
>> > > >   Thanks,
>> > > > 
>> > > >   Imbar
>> > > > 
>> > > 
>> > >   _______________________________________________
>> > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>> > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > 
>> > >   --
>> > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > >   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > >   Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date:
>> > >   1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > 
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  Blinux-list mailing list
>> >  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > 
>> > 
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> 
>>
>>  --
>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>  Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>>  269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>
>> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Imbar Golt]

I believe there is a cd boot somewhere only windows comes on first.  So 
there is no option but to use sighted help.

Thank a lot,

imbar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> No, on that score you're really out of luck.  The boot sequence should 
> always have cd's in it somewhere otherwise nobody can protect the security 
> of that computer.  Now, what happens if some virus installs and 
> successfully blocks access to your cmos?  I'll tell you what happens, it's 
> time to throw that computer and all the equipment and software that came 
> with it in the garbage because at that point, not even the best sight on 
> the planet can help you.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>
>> Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't have 
>> sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any distribution 
>> or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot when Windows is 
>> already on the computer?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Imbar
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>
>>
>>>  http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd that 
>>> can
>>>  also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and when the
>>>  disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return.  If you
>>>  have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message saying 
>>> grml
>>>  finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is only
>>>  necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type swspeak 
>>> again
>>>  and you'll have speech.
>>>
>>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>>>
>>> >  Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>>> >
>>> >  Imbar
>>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" 
>>> > <krmane@gmail.com>
>>> >  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>> >  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>>> >  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >   On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>>> > > >   Hi,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or a 
>>> > > > live cd?
>>> > > >
>>> > >   yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>>> > >   after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to 
>>> > > the cd
>>> > >   rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then number 
>>> > > 3
>>> > >   and press enter 2 times.
>>> > >   the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>>> > >   just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press alt 
>>> > > +
>>> > >   f2 and type orca.
>>> > >   regards,
>>> > >   Kk
>>> > > >   Thanks,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >   Imbar
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >   _______________________________________________
>>> > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > >
>>> > >   --
>>> > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> > >   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> > >   Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date:
>>> > >   1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >  _______________________________________________
>>> >  Blinux-list mailing list
>>> >  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>  Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>>>  269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 
> 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>
> 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Jude DaShiell]

If it's a dell machine push down and hold the delete key right after you 
turn the machine on.  You won't get windows coming up but will get into 
cmos.  Other things to do.  Change msdos.sys file on that box so you stop 
off in dos first.  There are dos screen readers free for download that 
will work with hardware synthesizers and that way you get more control 
over your equipment.  I did this a long time ago, maybe get sighted help 
to do this too it's not hard.  Run in dos and type cmd attrib +w msdos.sys 
and hit return.  Then use notepad to edit msdos.sys and change BootGui=1 
to BootGui=0 then save the file as a text file and in another dos command 
session cmd move c:\msdos.sys.txt c:\msdos.sys and then reboot the 
machine.  Dos comes up and everything goes quiet so type win and hit enter 
to go into windows until you can get a hardware screen reader and a screen 
reader program for it.



On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:

> I believe there is a cd boot somewhere only windows comes on first.  So there 
> is no option but to use sighted help.
>
> Thank a lot,
>
> imbar
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
>>  No, on that score you're really out of luck.  The boot sequence should
>>  always have cd's in it somewhere otherwise nobody can protect the security
>>  of that computer.  Now, what happens if some virus installs and
>>  successfully blocks access to your cmos?  I'll tell you what happens, it's
>>  time to throw that computer and all the equipment and software that came
>>  with it in the garbage because at that point, not even the best sight on
>>  the planet can help you.
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> 
>> >  Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't have 
>> >  sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any distribution 
>> >  or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot when Windows is 
>> >  already on the computer?
>> > 
>> >  Thanks,
>> > 
>> >  Imbar
>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> >  <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> >  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:06 PM
>> >  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > 
>> > 
>> > >  http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd that 
>> > >  can
>> > >   also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and when 
>> > >   the
>> > >   disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return.  If 
>> > >   you
>> > >   have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message saying 
>> > >  grml
>> > >   finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is only
>> > >   necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type swspeak 
>> > >  again
>> > >   and you'll have speech.
>> > > 
>> > >   On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > >   Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>> > > > 
>> > > >   Imbar
>> > > >   ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" 
>> > > >  <krmane@gmail.com>
>> > > >   To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> > > >   Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>> > > >   Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > >    On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>> > > > > >    Hi,
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help or 
>> > > > > >  a live cd?
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > >    yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>> > > > >    after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand to 
>> > > > >  the cd
>> > > > >    rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then 
>> > > > >  number 3
>> > > > >    and press enter 2 times.
>> > > > >    the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>> > > > >    just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then press 
>> > > > >    alt 
>> > > > >  +
>> > > > >    f2 and type orca.
>> > > > >    regards,
>> > > > >    Kk
>> > > > > >    Thanks,
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >    Imbar
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >    _______________________________________________
>> > > > >    Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > >    Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > >    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >    --
>> > > > >    No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > > >    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > > > >    Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release 
>> > > > >    Date:
>> > > > >    1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > >   _______________________________________________
>> > > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > 
>> > >   _______________________________________________
>> > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>> > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > 
>> > >   --
>> > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > >   Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>> > >   269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > 
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  Blinux-list mailing list
>> >  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > 
>> > 
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> 
>>
>>  --
>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>  Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>>  269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>
>> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Kristoffer Gustafsson]

Can you do that even with win xp?

I didn't believe that.

/Kristoffer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> If it's a dell machine push down and hold the delete key right after you 
> turn the machine on.  You won't get windows coming up but will get into 
> cmos.  Other things to do.  Change msdos.sys file on that box so you stop 
> off in dos first.  There are dos screen readers free for download that 
> will work with hardware synthesizers and that way you get more control 
> over your equipment.  I did this a long time ago, maybe get sighted help 
> to do this too it's not hard.  Run in dos and type cmd attrib +w msdos.sys 
> and hit return.  Then use notepad to edit msdos.sys and change BootGui=1 
> to BootGui=0 then save the file as a text file and in another dos command 
> session cmd move c:\msdos.sys.txt c:\msdos.sys and then reboot the 
> machine.  Dos comes up and everything goes quiet so type win and hit enter 
> to go into windows until you can get a hardware screen reader and a screen 
> reader program for it.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>
>> I believe there is a cd boot somewhere only windows comes on first.  So 
>> there is no option but to use sighted help.
>>
>> Thank a lot,
>>
>> imbar
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>
>>
>>>  No, on that score you're really out of luck.  The boot sequence should
>>>  always have cd's in it somewhere otherwise nobody can protect the 
>>> security
>>>  of that computer.  Now, what happens if some virus installs and
>>>  successfully blocks access to your cmos?  I'll tell you what happens, 
>>> it's
>>>  time to throw that computer and all the equipment and software that 
>>> came
>>>  with it in the garbage because at that point, not even the best sight 
>>> on
>>>  the planet can help you.
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>>>
>>> >  Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't have 
>>> > sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any 
>>> > distribution or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot 
>>> > when Windows is already on the computer?
>>> >
>>> >  Thanks,
>>> >
>>> >  Imbar
>>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>>> > <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>>> >  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>> >  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:06 PM
>>> >  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >  http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd 
>>> > > that can
>>> > >   also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and when 
>>> > > the
>>> > >   disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return. 
>>> > > If you
>>> > >   have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message 
>>> > > saying grml
>>> > >   finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is 
>>> > > only
>>> > >   necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type 
>>> > > swspeak again
>>> > >   and you'll have speech.
>>> > >
>>> > >   On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > >   Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >   Imbar
>>> > > >   ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" 
>>> > > > <krmane@gmail.com>
>>> > > >   To: "Linux for blind general discussion" 
>>> > > > <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>> > > >   Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>>> > > >   Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >    On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>>> > > > > >    Hi,
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help 
>>> > > > > > or a live cd?
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >    yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>>> > > > >    after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the hand 
>>> > > > > to the cd
>>> > > > >    rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then 
>>> > > > > number 3
>>> > > > >    and press enter 2 times.
>>> > > > >    the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>>> > > > >    just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then 
>>> > > > > press alt +
>>> > > > >    f2 and type orca.
>>> > > > >    regards,
>>> > > > >    Kk
>>> > > > > >    Thanks,
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >    Imbar
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >    _______________________________________________
>>> > > > >    Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > > > >    Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > > > >    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >    --
>>> > > > >    No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> > > > >    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> > > > >    Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release 
>>> > > > > Date:
>>> > > > >    1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >   _______________________________________________
>>> > > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >   _______________________________________________
>>> > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > >
>>> > >   --
>>> > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> > >   Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>>> > >   269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >  _______________________________________________
>>> >  Blinux-list mailing list
>>> >  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>  Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>>>  269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Jude DaShiell]

If the windows xp msdos.sys file is about 2k in size then yes you can.



On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:

> Can you do that even with win xp?
>
> I didn't believe that.
>
> /Kristoffer
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
>>  If it's a dell machine push down and hold the delete key right after you
>>  turn the machine on.  You won't get windows coming up but will get into
>>  cmos.  Other things to do.  Change msdos.sys file on that box so you stop
>>  off in dos first.  There are dos screen readers free for download that
>>  will work with hardware synthesizers and that way you get more control
>>  over your equipment.  I did this a long time ago, maybe get sighted help
>>  to do this too it's not hard.  Run in dos and type cmd attrib +w msdos.sys
>>  and hit return.  Then use notepad to edit msdos.sys and change BootGui=1
>>  to BootGui=0 then save the file as a text file and in another dos command
>>  session cmd move c:\msdos.sys.txt c:\msdos.sys and then reboot the
>>  machine.  Dos comes up and everything goes quiet so type win and hit enter
>>  to go into windows until you can get a hardware screen reader and a screen
>>  reader program for it.
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> 
>> >  I believe there is a cd boot somewhere only windows comes on first.  So 
>> >  there is no option but to use sighted help.
>> > 
>> >  Thank a lot,
>> > 
>> >  imbar
>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> >  <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> >  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:16 PM
>> >  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > 
>> > 
>> > >   No, on that score you're really out of luck.  The boot sequence 
>> > >   should
>> > >   always have cd's in it somewhere otherwise nobody can protect the 
>> > >  security
>> > >   of that computer.  Now, what happens if some virus installs and
>> > >   successfully blocks access to your cmos?  I'll tell you what happens, 
>> > >  it's
>> > >  time to throw that computer and all the equipment and software that 
>> > >  came
>> > >  with it in the garbage because at that point, not even the best sight 
>> > >  on
>> > >   the planet can help you.
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > >   On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > >  Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't 
>> > > >  have sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any 
>> > > >  distribution or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot 
>> > > >  when Windows is already on the computer?
>> > > > 
>> > > >   Thanks,
>> > > > 
>> > > >   Imbar
>> > > >   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> > > >  <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> > > >   To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> > > >   Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:06 PM
>> > > >   Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > >  http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a livecd 
>> > > > >  that can
>> > > > >    also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and 
>> > > > >  when the
>> > > > >    disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit return. 
>> > > > >  If you
>> > > > >    have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message 
>> > > > >  saying grml
>> > > > >    finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This is 
>> > > > >  only
>> > > > >    necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type 
>> > > > >  swspeak again
>> > > > >    and you'll have speech.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >    On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > >    Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >    Imbar
>> > > > > >    ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" 
>> > > > > >  <krmane@gmail.com>
>> > > > > >    To: "Linux for blind general discussion" 
>> > > > > >  <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> > > > > >    Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>> > > > > >    Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >     On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> wrote:
>> > > > > > > >     Hi,
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted help 
>> > > > > > > >  or a live cd?
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >     yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>> > > > > > >     after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the 
>> > > > > > >     hand 
>> > > > > > >  to the cd
>> > > > > > >     rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 then 
>> > > > > > >  number 3
>> > > > > > >     and press enter 2 times.
>> > > > > > >     the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>> > > > > > >     just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then 
>> > > > > > >  press alt +
>> > > > > > >     f2 and type orca.
>> > > > > > >     regards,
>> > > > > > >     Kk
>> > > > > > > >     Thanks,
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > >     Imbar
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >     _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > >     Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > > > >     Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > > > >     https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >     --
>> > > > > > >     No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > > > > >     Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > > > > > >     Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release 
>> > > > > > >  Date:
>> > > > > > >     1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >    _______________________________________________
>> > > > > >    Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > > >    Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > > >    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >    _______________________________________________
>> > > > >    Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > >    Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > >    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >    --
>> > > > >    No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > > >    Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>> > > > >    269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > >   _______________________________________________
>> > > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > 
>> > >   _______________________________________________
>> > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>> > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > 
>> > >   --
>> > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > >   Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>> > >   269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > 
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  Blinux-list mailing list
>> >  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > 
>> > 
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Kristoffer Gustafsson]

Hello!
Oh no, I've had a dos boot floppy, with my screen reader on all the time.
Now I'm getting a bit angry, if I only had known this. I had it with loadlin 
on so that I could boot linux with different kernels.

I've never done this with a cd, but I think it would work if you use loadlin 
and load with a vmlinuz kernel on the cd and then install linux onto the 
machine.

/Kristoffer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> If the windows xp msdos.sys file is about 2k in size then yes you can.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
>
>> Can you do that even with win xp?
>>
>> I didn't believe that.
>>
>> /Kristoffer
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>
>>
>>>  If it's a dell machine push down and hold the delete key right after 
>>> you
>>>  turn the machine on.  You won't get windows coming up but will get into
>>>  cmos.  Other things to do.  Change msdos.sys file on that box so you 
>>> stop
>>>  off in dos first.  There are dos screen readers free for download that
>>>  will work with hardware synthesizers and that way you get more control
>>>  over your equipment.  I did this a long time ago, maybe get sighted 
>>> help
>>>  to do this too it's not hard.  Run in dos and type cmd attrib +w 
>>> msdos.sys
>>>  and hit return.  Then use notepad to edit msdos.sys and change 
>>> BootGui=1
>>>  to BootGui=0 then save the file as a text file and in another dos 
>>> command
>>>  session cmd move c:\msdos.sys.txt c:\msdos.sys and then reboot the
>>>  machine.  Dos comes up and everything goes quiet so type win and hit 
>>> enter
>>>  to go into windows until you can get a hardware screen reader and a 
>>> screen
>>>  reader program for it.
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>>>
>>> >  I believe there is a cd boot somewhere only windows comes on first. 
>>> > So there is no option but to use sighted help.
>>> >
>>> >  Thank a lot,
>>> >
>>> >  imbar
>>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>>> > <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>>> >  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>> >  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:16 PM
>>> >  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >   No, on that score you're really out of luck.  The boot sequence 
>>> > > should
>>> > >   always have cd's in it somewhere otherwise nobody can protect the 
>>> > > security
>>> > >   of that computer.  Now, what happens if some virus installs and
>>> > >   successfully blocks access to your cmos?  I'll tell you what 
>>> > > happens, it's
>>> > >  time to throw that computer and all the equipment and software that 
>>> > > came
>>> > >  with it in the garbage because at that point, not even the best 
>>> > > sight on
>>> > >   the planet can help you.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >   On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > >  Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't 
>>> > > > have sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any 
>>> > > > distribution or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot 
>>> > > > when Windows is already on the computer?
>>> > > >
>>> > > >   Thanks,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >   Imbar
>>> > > >   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>>> > > > <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>>> > > >   To: "Linux for blind general discussion" 
>>> > > > <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>> > > >   Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:06 PM
>>> > > >   Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >  http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a 
>>> > > > > livecd that can
>>> > > > >    also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting and 
>>> > > > > when the
>>> > > > >    disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit 
>>> > > > > return. If you
>>> > > > >    have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a message 
>>> > > > > saying grml
>>> > > > >    finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again.  This 
>>> > > > > is only
>>> > > > >    necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type 
>>> > > > > swspeak again
>>> > > > >    and you'll have speech.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >    On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >    Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >    Imbar
>>> > > > > >    ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" 
>>> > > > > > <krmane@gmail.com>
>>> > > > > >    To: "Linux for blind general discussion" 
>>> > > > > > <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>> > > > > >    Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>>> > > > > >    Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > >     On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> 
>>> > > > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > > > > >     Hi,
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted 
>>> > > > > > > > help or a live cd?
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > >     yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty good.
>>> > > > > > >     after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep the 
>>> > > > > > > hand to the cd
>>> > > > > > >     rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 
>>> > > > > > > then number 3
>>> > > > > > >     and press enter 2 times.
>>> > > > > > >     the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>>> > > > > > >     just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and then 
>>> > > > > > > press alt +
>>> > > > > > >     f2 and type orca.
>>> > > > > > >     regards,
>>> > > > > > >     Kk
>>> > > > > > > >     Thanks,
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > >     Imbar
>>> > > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > >     _______________________________________________
>>> > > > > > >     Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > > > > > >     Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > > > > > >     https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > >     --
>>> > > > > > >     No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> > > > > > >     Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> > > > > > >     Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - 
>>> > > > > > > Release Date:
>>> > > > > > >     1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >    _______________________________________________
>>> > > > > >    Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > > > > >    Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > > > > >    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >    _______________________________________________
>>> > > > >    Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > > > >    Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > > > >    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >    --
>>> > > > >    No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> > > > >    Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus 
>>> > > > > Database:
>>> > > > >    269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >   _______________________________________________
>>> > > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >   _______________________________________________
>>> > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>>> > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> > >
>>> > >   --
>>> > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> > >   Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>>> > >   269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >  _______________________________________________
>>> >  Blinux-list mailing list
>>> >  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>> >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Jude DaShiell]

Check the file size first, if it's larger than 2k it's a binary file and 
this won't work.



On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:

> Hello!
> Oh no, I've had a dos boot floppy, with my screen reader on all the time.
> Now I'm getting a bit angry, if I only had known this. I had it with loadlin 
> on so that I could boot linux with different kernels.
>
> I've never done this with a cd, but I think it would work if you use loadlin 
> and load with a vmlinuz kernel on the cd and then install linux onto the 
> machine.
>
> /Kristoffer
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
>>  If the windows xp msdos.sys file is about 2k in size then yes you can.
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
>> 
>> >  Can you do that even with win xp?
>> > 
>> >  I didn't believe that.
>> > 
>> >  /Kristoffer
>> >  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> >  <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> >  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:30 PM
>> >  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > 
>> > 
>> > >  If it's a dell machine push down and hold the delete key right after 
>> > >  you
>> > >   turn the machine on.  You won't get windows coming up but will get 
>> > >   into
>> > >   cmos.  Other things to do.  Change msdos.sys file on that box so you 
>> > >  stop
>> > >   off in dos first.  There are dos screen readers free for download 
>> > >   that
>> > >   will work with hardware synthesizers and that way you get more 
>> > >   control
>> > >   over your equipment.  I did this a long time ago, maybe get sighted 
>> > >  help
>> > >  to do this too it's not hard.  Run in dos and type cmd attrib +w 
>> > >  msdos.sys
>> > >  and hit return.  Then use notepad to edit msdos.sys and change 
>> > >  BootGui=1
>> > >  to BootGui=0 then save the file as a text file and in another dos 
>> > >  command
>> > >   session cmd move c:\msdos.sys.txt c:\msdos.sys and then reboot the
>> > >   machine.  Dos comes up and everything goes quiet so type win and hit 
>> > >  enter
>> > >  to go into windows until you can get a hardware screen reader and a 
>> > >  screen
>> > >   reader program for it.
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > >   On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > >  I believe there is a cd boot somewhere only windows comes on first. 
>> > > >  So there is no option but to use sighted help.
>> > > > 
>> > > >   Thank a lot,
>> > > > 
>> > > >   imbar
>> > > >   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> > > >  <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> > > >   To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> > > >   Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:16 PM
>> > > >   Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > >    No, on that score you're really out of luck.  The boot sequence 
>> > > > >  should
>> > > > >    always have cd's in it somewhere otherwise nobody can protect 
>> > > > >  the security
>> > > > >    of that computer.  Now, what happens if some virus installs and
>> > > > >    successfully blocks access to your cmos?  I'll tell you what 
>> > > > >  happens, it's
>> > > > >  time to throw that computer and all the equipment and software 
>> > > > >  that came
>> > > > >  with it in the garbage because at that point, not even the best 
>> > > > >  sight on
>> > > > >    the planet can help you.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >    On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > >  Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't 
>> > > > > >  have sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any 
>> > > > > >  distribution or virtual consol that can work under windows or 
>> > > > > >  boot when Windows is already on the computer?
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >    Thanks,
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >    Imbar
>> > > > > >    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell" 
>> > > > > >  <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> > > > > >    To: "Linux for blind general discussion" 
>> > > > > >  <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> > > > > >    Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:06 PM
>> > > > > >    Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >  http://www.grml.org/ has an iso file for download.  It's a 
>> > > > > > >  livecd that can
>> > > > > > >     also be used to install linux if you like it. Try booting 
>> > > > > > >  and when the
>> > > > > > >     disk stops for a few seconds type grml swspeak then hit 
>> > > > > > >  return. If you
>> > > > > > >     have a sound card with active speakers you'll hear a 
>> > > > > > >  message saying grml
>> > > > > > >     finished booting and telling you to type swspeak again. 
>> > > > > > >  This is only
>> > > > > > >     necessary if linux isn't installed on the hard drive.  Type 
>> > > > > > >  swspeak again
>> > > > > > >     and you'll have speech.
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >     On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Imbar Golt wrote:
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > >     Thanks, I tried that but it did not work, neither way.
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > >     Imbar
>> > > > > > > >     ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishnakant Mane" 
>> > > > > > > >  <krmane@gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > >     To: "Linux for blind general discussion" 
>> > > > > > > >  <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> > > > > > > >     Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:40 PM
>> > > > > > > >     Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > >      On 26/01/2008, Imbar Golt <imbar@netvision.net.il> 
>> > > > > > > > >  wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >      Hi,
>> > > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > >  Does anyone know of a way to boot Linux without sighted 
>> > > > > > > > > >  help or a live cd?
>> > > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > >      yes, Ubuntu live cd for gutsy (7.10) works pritty 
>> > > > > > > > >      good.
>> > > > > > > > >      after you put the cd inside and start booting, keep 
>> > > > > > > > >      the 
>> > > > > > > > >  hand to the cd
>> > > > > > > > >      rom drive and the moment it stops vibrating, press f5 
>> > > > > > > > >  then number 3
>> > > > > > > > >      and press enter 2 times.
>> > > > > > > > >      the system will boot with the orca screen reader.
>> > > > > > > > >      just in case you fail to do so, let ubuntu boot and 
>> > > > > > > > >      then 
>> > > > > > > > >  press alt +
>> > > > > > > > >      f2 and type orca.
>> > > > > > > > >      regards,
>> > > > > > > > >      Kk
>> > > > > > > > > >      Thanks,
>> > > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > >      Imbar
>> > > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > >      _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > > > >      Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > > > > > >      Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > > > > > >      https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > >      --
>> > > > > > > > >      No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > > > > > > >      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > > > > > > > >      Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - 
>> > > > > > > > >  Release Date:
>> > > > > > > > >      1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > >     _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > > >     Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > > > > >     Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > > > > >     https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >     _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > >     Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > > > >     Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > > > >     https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > >     --
>> > > > > > >     No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > > > > >     Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus 
>> > > > > > >  Database:
>> > > > > > >     269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > >    _______________________________________________
>> > > > > >    Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > > >    Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > > >    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >    _______________________________________________
>> > > > >    Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > > >    Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > > >    https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > > 
>> > > > >    --
>> > > > >    No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > > >    Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>> > > > >    269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > >   _______________________________________________
>> > > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > 
>> > >   _______________________________________________
>> > >   Blinux-list mailing list
>> > >   Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >   https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > 
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  Blinux-list mailing list
>> >  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > 
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Blinux-list mailing list
>>  Blinux-list@redhat.com
>>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Mike Gorse]

My io.sys and /msdos.sys are empty on my laptop (running XP).

I'm almost positive that those instructions only apply to 95/98/ME. 
NT/2k/XP/Vista are fully 32-bit and don't run on top of DOS.

-- Mike Gorse / AIM:linvortex / http://mgorse.freeshell.org --

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> If the windows xp msdos.sys file is about 2k in size then yes you can.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
>
>>  Can you do that even with win xp?
>>
>>  I didn't believe that.
>>
>>  /Kristoffer
>>  ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell"
>>  <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>>  To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:30 PM
>>  Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> 
>> 
>> >   If it's a dell machine push down and hold the delete key right after 
>> >   you
>> >   turn the machine on.  You won't get windows coming up but will get into
>> >   cmos.  Other things to do.  Change msdos.sys file on that box so you 
>> >   stop
>> >   off in dos first.  There are dos screen readers free for download that
>> >   will work with hardware synthesizers and that way you get more control
>> >   over your equipment.  I did this a long time ago, maybe get sighted 
>> >   help
>> >   to do this too it's not hard.  Run in dos and type cmd attrib +w 
>> >   msdos.sys
>> >   and hit return.  Then use notepad to edit msdos.sys and change 
>> >   BootGui=1
>> >   to BootGui=0 then save the file as a text file and in another dos 
>> >   command
>> >   session cmd move c:\msdos.sys.txt c:\msdos.sys and then reboot the
>> >   machine.  Dos comes up and everything goes quiet so type win and hit 
>> >   enter
>> >   to go into windows until you can get a hardware screen reader and a 
>> >   screen
>> >   reader program for it.

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Geoff Shang]

Mike Gorse wrote:

> My io.sys and /msdos.sys are empty on my laptop (running XP).

Same here with the XP Pro install on the other box.

That doesn't mean it doesn't work though, just means that someone has to 
try it.

Geoff.

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Jude DaShiell]

If you could do something with that file, it oughtn't be empty after a 
windows installation.



On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Mike Gorse wrote:

> My io.sys and /msdos.sys are empty on my laptop (running XP).
>
> I'm almost positive that those instructions only apply to 95/98/ME. 
> NT/2k/XP/Vista are fully 32-bit and don't run on top of DOS.
>
> -- Mike Gorse / AIM:linvortex / http://mgorse.freeshell.org --
>
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>
>>  If the windows xp msdos.sys file is about 2k in size then yes you can.
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Kristoffer Gustafsson wrote:
>> 
>> >   Can you do that even with win xp?
>> > 
>> >   I didn't believe that.
>> > 
>> >   /Kristoffer
>> >   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude DaShiell"
>> >   <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
>> >   To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >   Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:30 PM
>> >   Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>> > 
>> > 
>> > >    If it's a dell machine push down and hold the delete key right after 
>> > >    you
>> > >    turn the machine on.  You won't get windows coming up but will get 
>> > >    into
>> > >    cmos.  Other things to do.  Change msdos.sys file on that box so you 
>> > >    stop
>> > >    off in dos first.  There are dos screen readers free for download 
>> > >    that
>> > >    will work with hardware synthesizers and that way you get more 
>> > >    control
>> > >    over your equipment.  I did this a long time ago, maybe get sighted 
>> > >    help
>> > >    to do this too it's not hard.  Run in dos and type cmd attrib +w 
>> > >    msdos.sys
>> > >    and hit return.  Then use notepad to edit msdos.sys and change 
>> > >    BootGui=1
>> > >    to BootGui=0 then save the file as a text file and in another dos 
>> > >    command
>> > >    session cmd move c:\msdos.sys.txt c:\msdos.sys and then reboot the
>> > >    machine.  Dos comes up and everything goes quiet so type win and hit 
>> > >    enter
>> > >    to go into windows until you can get a hardware screen reader and a 
>> > >    screen
>> > >    reader program for it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Lorenzo Taylor]

If you have problems booting from a CD, try pressing the escape key a
few times shortly after you powerr on the computer. Some bios's will
allow you to select the boot device from a list by pressing the escape
key just before the system starts to boot. The CD-ROM device is usually
the second from the top, so you press escape, then down arrow, then
enter to start it booting from the CD. Note that YMMV, since not all
computers do this, but it's worth a try.

Live long and prosper,
Lorenzo

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Imbar Golt]

Hey thanks, I will try this.

Imbar

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lorenzo Taylor" <daxlinux@gmail.com>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> If you have problems booting from a CD, try pressing the escape key a
> few times shortly after you powerr on the computer. Some bios's will
> allow you to select the boot device from a list by pressing the escape
> key just before the system starts to boot. The CD-ROM device is usually
> the second from the top, so you press escape, then down arrow, then
> enter to start it booting from the CD. Note that YMMV, since not all
> computers do this, but it's worth a try.
>
> Live long and prosper,
> Lorenzo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 
> 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>
> 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Tony Baechler]

There is no guarantee that this will actually work, but if you're 
running XP Pro or better, try Microsoft Virtual PC.  You can boot 
virtual CD images that way and that might work.  Your best bet would be 
software speech since XP does weird things with your serial port.  Just 
make sure to emulate a virtual sound card.  Note that I haven't actually 
tried this but I got a FreeDOS boot floppy to boot this way.  You could 
also try VMWare, Bochs, and Qemu but I've had the best luck with 
Microsoft Virtual PC.  Note that VPC won't run on XP Home or Windows 9X.

Imbar Golt wrote:
> Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't have 
> sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any 
> distribution or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot 
> when Windows is already on the computer?

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Imbar Golt]

Thanks I am running xp home, so I guess it won't work.

Imbar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Baechler" <tony@baechler.net>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> running XP Pro or better, try Microsoft Virtual PC.  You can boot virtual 
> CD images that way and that might work.  Your best bet would be software 
> speech since XP does weird things with your serial port.  Just make sure 
> to emulate a virtual sound card.  Note that I haven't actually tried this 
> but I got a FreeDOS boot floppy to boot this way.  You could also try 
> VMWare, Bochs, and Qemu but I've had the best luck with Microsoft Virtual 
> PC.  Note that VPC won't run on XP Home or Windows 9X.
>
> Imbar Golt wrote:
>> Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't have 
>> sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any distribution 
>> or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot when Windows is 
>> already on the computer?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 
> 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: 1/26/2008 3:45 PM
>
> 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Tony Baechler]

There are other VMs out there that will work under XP or even Windows 98 
but they aren't as stable and are far more difficult to use.  You can 
try Bochs http://bochs.sf.net/ or Qemu http://www.qemu.org/  With the 
later, there is a free OS zoo with many prebuilt disk images, but they 
won't be designed for speech.  I never got my serial port working with 
either one so you would be limited to live CD images with software 
speech.  Bochs is supposed to emulate serial but I never got it to 
work.  Finally, you can look for Microsoft Virtual PC 2005.  It's older 
and will expire after a trial period but will work on XP Home.

Imbar Golt wrote:
> Thanks I am running xp home, so I guess it won't work.
>
> Imbar
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Baechler" <tony@baechler.net>
> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
>> running XP Pro or better, try Microsoft Virtual PC.  You can boot 
>> virtual CD images that way and that might work.  Your best bet would 
>> be software speech since XP does weird things with your serial port.  
>> Just make sure to emulate a virtual sound card.  Note that I haven't 
>> actually tried this but I got a FreeDOS boot floppy to boot this 
>> way.  You could also try VMWare, Bochs, and Qemu but I've had the 
>> best luck with Microsoft Virtual PC.  Note that VPC won't run on XP 
>> Home or Windows 9X.
>>
>> Imbar Golt wrote:
>>> Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't 
>>> have sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any 
>>> distribution or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot 
>>> when Windows is already on the computer?

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Imbar Golt]

Thanks,

I will try that.

Imbar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Baechler" <tony@baechler.net>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> There are other VMs out there that will work under XP or even Windows 98 
> but they aren't as stable and are far more difficult to use.  You can try 
> Bochs http://bochs.sf.net/ or Qemu http://www.qemu.org/  With the later, 
> there is a free OS zoo with many prebuilt disk images, but they won't be 
> designed for speech.  I never got my serial port working with either one 
> so you would be limited to live CD images with software speech.  Bochs is 
> supposed to emulate serial but I never got it to work.  Finally, you can 
> look for Microsoft Virtual PC 2005.  It's older and will expire after a 
> trial period but will work on XP Home.
>
> Imbar Golt wrote:
>> Thanks I am running xp home, so I guess it won't work.
>>
>> Imbar
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Baechler" <tony@baechler.net>
>> To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help
>>
>>
>>> running XP Pro or better, try Microsoft Virtual PC.  You can boot 
>>> virtual CD images that way and that might work.  Your best bet would be 
>>> software speech since XP does weird things with your serial port.  Just 
>>> make sure to emulate a virtual sound card.  Note that I haven't actually 
>>> tried this but I got a FreeDOS boot floppy to boot this way.  You could 
>>> also try VMWare, Bochs, and Qemu but I've had the best luck with 
>>> Microsoft Virtual PC.  Note that VPC won't run on XP Home or Windows 9X.
>>>
>>> Imbar Golt wrote:
>>>> Please I need something that won't boot from a CD, since I don't have 
>>>> sighted help to change the boot sequence.  If there is any distribution 
>>>> or virtual consol that can work under windows or boot when Windows is 
>>>> already on the computer?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 
> 269.19.13/1246 - Release Date: 1/27/2008 6:39 PM
>
> 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Lee Maschmeyer]

There is a Linux emulator you can run under Windows. I guess there are 
several but the one  I'm familiar with is cygwin (www.cygwin.com). If you 
have a couple GB of free disk space you can install everything; it provides 
a pretty good system - slower than real Linux but usable. If you have a 
braille display you can run brltty which gives a nearly indistinguishable 
look and feel; if you use speech you'll have to use your Windows screen 
reader. Since I'm not a speech user I don't know a lot about that.

I use it all the time for light tasks like checking man and info pages, 
running ssh, using Lynx, reading books, and stuff like that. It works a bit 
better if you run Screen on Cygwin.

The installer is tricky. It strikes many people as inaccessible. My 
experience is that it isn't inaccessible at all, just clumsy as the dickens; 
if you install the default system and then add everything else (note: a 
two-stage approach) the installer isn't hard once you figure out what's 
going on.

Go to www.cygwin.com, read a bit, install the default system, then read the 
user's guide and install everything else.

-- 
Lee Maschmeyer
<lee_maschmeyer@wayne.edu>

"Be kind to your fur-bearing friends,
For a skunk may be somebody's brother."
     --Fred Allen

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Imbar Golt]

Thanks a lot for this detailed explanation.

Imbar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Maschmeyer" <lee_maschmeyer@wayne.edu>
To: "Linux for blind general discussion" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: Linux without sighted help


> There is a Linux emulator you can run under Windows. I guess there are 
> several but the one  I'm familiar with is cygwin (www.cygwin.com). If you 
> have a couple GB of free disk space you can install everything; it 
> provides a pretty good system - slower than real Linux but usable. If you 
> have a braille display you can run brltty which gives a nearly 
> indistinguishable look and feel; if you use speech you'll have to use your 
> Windows screen reader. Since I'm not a speech user I don't know a lot 
> about that.
>
> I use it all the time for light tasks like checking man and info pages, 
> running ssh, using Lynx, reading books, and stuff like that. It works a 
> bit better if you run Screen on Cygwin.
>
> The installer is tricky. It strikes many people as inaccessible. My 
> experience is that it isn't inaccessible at all, just clumsy as the 
> dickens; if you install the default system and then add everything else 
> (note: a two-stage approach) the installer isn't hard once you figure out 
> what's going on.
>
> Go to www.cygwin.com, read a bit, install the default system, then read 
> the user's guide and install everything else.
>
> -- 
> Lee Maschmeyer
> <lee_maschmeyer@wayne.edu>
>
> "Be kind to your fur-bearing friends,
> For a skunk may be somebody's brother."
>     --Fred Allen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 
> 269.19.15/1248 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 9:32 PM
>
> 

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Tony Baechler]

This is misleading at best.  cygwin is not a Linux emulator.  It will 
not run Linux executables and there are many programs that will not 
compile even though they run fine on a real Linux system.  The Linux 
kernel comes to mind, you can't use a native Linux kernel under Cygwin.  
It simulates functions found in *nix-like operating systems through a 
dll but it is not true to say that it is an emulator.  This is not to 
say that it doesn't work as I use lynx under Cygwin often, but if you 
really want the full Linux experience, Cygwin is nowhere close.

Lee Maschmeyer wrote:
> There is a Linux emulator you can run under Windows. I guess there are 
> several but the one  I'm familiar with is cygwin (www.cygwin.com). If 
> you have a couple GB of free disk space you can install everything; it 
> provides a pretty good system - slower than real Linux but usable.

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Lee Maschmeyer]

As I said, I use Cygwin for light tasks. And modern Cygwin will run a rather 
impressive bunch of *nix programs. If there's a difference between an 
emulator and a simulator that may be important to dictionary writers, but 
the main thing here is that you can switch between Unix and Windows stuff 
without having to reboot. If you use brltty the experience is much closer to 
Linux than if you use speech.

I'm curious as to how one runs a kernel under Linux.

There are things that Cygwin won't do but there are an awful lot of them 
that it will. How it compares with a virtual machine I have no idea.

-- 
Lee Maschmeyer
<lee_maschmeyer@wayne.edu>

"Be kind to your fur-bearing friends,
For a skunk may be somebody's brother."
     --Fred Allen

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Tony Baechler]

Hi,

Yes, you are correct in a general way, but there are many programs that 
absolutely won't compile under Cygwin.  C-Kermit comes to mind and there 
is no good reason why it shouldn't work.  Other programs will compile 
but are useless because Cygwin doesn't support tty/pty pairs.  You don't 
"run" a Linux kernel but you use it to boot the OS.  Also, brltty runs 
under DOS, so saying that it runs under Cygwin isn't saying much.  If 
any brave people want to try compiling Kermit under Cygwin, that would 
be much appreciated but I've read threads from various mailing lists 
saying that it won't work.  It compiled perfectly under Debian Sarge.  
Yes, the experience with speech leaves much to be desired because 
Windows screen readers don't do console apps very well.  I must add here 
that I use ssh under Cygwin on an almost daily basis with no trouble at 
all.  One last word on Kermit.  It claims to compile on any *nix OS 
imaginable yet Cygwin just won't work.  There are instructions for any 
BSD and old Linux versions, and even DOS and Apple II versions.

Lee Maschmeyer wrote:
> As I said, I use Cygwin for light tasks. And modern Cygwin will run a 
> rather impressive bunch of *nix programs. If there's a difference 
> between an emulator and a simulator that may be important to 
> dictionary writers, but the main thing here is that you can switch 
> between Unix and Windows stuff without having to reboot. If you use 
> brltty the experience is much closer to Linux than if you use speech.
>
> I'm curious as to how one runs a kernel under Linux.
>
> There are things that Cygwin won't do but there are an awful lot of 
> them that it will. How it compares with a virtual machine I have no idea.

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Rynhardt P Kruger]

Hi,

A good screenreader for handling these unix like command line programs like ssh or telnet is the open source NVDA. It 
connects directly to the running console and gives you the fealing of a command line screen reader. It even reads blank 
lines, something jaws doesn't do. It also has a keypad reading layout like speakup and orca.

Take care,

Rynhardt

* Tony Baechler <tony@baechler.net> [080201 15:30]:
> Hi,
>
> Yes, you are correct in a general way, but there are many programs that 
> absolutely won't compile under Cygwin.  C-Kermit comes to mind and there is 
> no good reason why it shouldn't work.  Other programs will compile but are 
> useless because Cygwin doesn't support tty/pty pairs.  You don't "run" a 
> Linux kernel but you use it to boot the OS.  Also, brltty runs under DOS, 
> so saying that it runs under Cygwin isn't saying much.  If any brave people 
> want to try compiling Kermit under Cygwin, that would be much appreciated 
> but I've read threads from various mailing lists saying that it won't work. 
>  It compiled perfectly under Debian Sarge.  Yes, the experience with speech 
> leaves much to be desired because Windows screen readers don't do console 
> apps very well.  I must add here that I use ssh under Cygwin on an almost 
> daily basis with no trouble at all.  One last word on Kermit.  It claims to 
> compile on any *nix OS imaginable yet Cygwin just won't work.  There are 
> instructions for any BSD and old Linux versions, and even DOS and Apple II 
> versions.
>
> Lee Maschmeyer wrote:
>> As I said, I use Cygwin for light tasks. And modern Cygwin will run a 
>> rather impressive bunch of *nix programs. If there's a difference between 
>> an emulator and a simulator that may be important to dictionary writers, 
>> but the main thing here is that you can switch between Unix and Windows 
>> stuff without having to reboot. If you use brltty the experience is much 
>> closer to Linux than if you use speech.
>>
>> I'm curious as to how one runs a kernel under Linux.
>>
>> There are things that Cygwin won't do but there are an awful lot of them 
>> that it will. How it compares with a virtual machine I have no idea.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

-- 
I use grml linux (http://grml.org/)

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Tony Baechler]

Yes, but it only runs under XP and better (I'm still on Win98 here) and 
it only supports software speech last I heard. I don't like SAPI for 
most things. Has hardware support been added? I could use System Access 
to go in demo form and get basically the same thing, albeit only for 10 
minutes at a time.

Rynhardt P Kruger wrote:
> A good screenreader for handling these unix like command line programs like ssh or telnet is the open source NVDA. It 
> connects directly to the running console and gives you the fealing of a command line screen reader. It even reads blank 
> lines, something jaws doesn't do. It also has a keypad reading layout like speakup and orca.
>   

NVDA (was Re: Linux without sighted help)

[Geoff Shang]

Tony Baechler wrote:

> Yes, but it only runs under XP and better (I'm still on Win98 here) and it 
> only supports software speech last I heard.

It should also run on Win2k.  It may work on older versions but no-one has 
particularly tested it, and some of the things on which it depends may not 
work on older versions.

> Has hardware support been added?

No.  That's not to say that it couldn't be or won't be, but there hasn't 
been much talk about it AFAIK.

Geoff.

SV: NVDA (was Re: Linux without sighted help)

[mattias]

No! Nvda not run correct on 2000

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com
[mailto:blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com] För Geoff Shang
Skickat: den 1 februari 2008 19:06
Till: Linux for blind general discussion
Ämne: NVDA (was Re: Linux without sighted help)


Tony Baechler wrote:

> Yes, but it only runs under XP and better (I'm still on Win98 here) 
> and it
> only supports software speech last I heard.

It should also run on Win2k.  It may work on older versions but no-one
has 
particularly tested it, and some of the things on which it depends may
not 
work on older versions.

> Has hardware support been added?

No.  That's not to say that it couldn't be or won't be, but there hasn't

been much talk about it AFAIK.

Geoff.

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Blinux-list mailing list
Blinux-list@redhat.com
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Re: Linux without sighted help

[Lee Maschmeyer]

If I remember correctly, Tony is running a version of Cygwin which is 
several years out of date. Statements about what it won't do should probably 
be taken in context.

Obviously there are things that absolutely won't compile; there are also 
things that absolutely will. One can throw out the baby with the bath water; 
I prefer to keep the baby for what the baby is worth, not expecting it to 
turn into a non-baby. For a beginner who won't jump right into compiling 
kernels the first day, Cygwin is a good learning tool, and for the things it 
works with it's a good use tool also. The concept is obviously not deemed 
valueless by its developers since multiple updates per week generally occur, 
most of them from generic sources.

Brltty worked on Cygwin long before it worked on DOS, and the DOS version 
still isn't really ready for prime time. (Samuel or Dave, please correct me 
if this is no longer true.)

Bottom line: Tony doesn't like it; I do. Pay your money (free!) and take 
your choice.

(I don't have any particular need for Kermit since I use ssh, but I'll check 
it out if I get a chance.)

-- 
Lee Maschmeyer
<lee_maschmeyer@wayne.edu>

"Be kind to your fur-bearing friends,
For a skunk may be somebody's brother."
     --Fred Allen

Cygwin was: Re: Linux without sighted help

[Tony Baechler]

Hi,

You made some rather offensive comments here which should have been 
taken off list.  This is clearly off topic and will be my only response 
on this subject here.  I have changed the subject.  My intention was not 
to offend you and I'm sorry if you feel offended, but I don't appreciate 
you making incorrect assumptions.  Since you responded on a public list, 
I will do likewise but this will be my last response.

Lee Maschmeyer wrote:
> If I remember correctly, Tony is running a version of Cygwin which is 
> several years out of date. Statements about what it won't do should 
> probably be taken in context.
>

This is no longer correct.  I completely reinstalled from scratch last 
July.  Most software is newer than what I have on Debian Etch.  I gave 
it a dedicated directory to avoid conflicts.  As it turned out, the 
older version was far more stable and worked better, both under XP and 
Win98.

> Obviously there are things that absolutely won't compile; there are 
> also things that absolutely will. One can throw out the baby with the 
> bath water; I prefer to keep the baby for what the baby is worth, not 
> expecting it to turn into a non-baby. For a beginner who won't jump 
> right into compiling kernels the first day, Cygwin is a good learning 
> tool, and for the things it works with it's a good use tool also. The 
> concept is obviously not deemed valueless by its developers since 
> multiple updates per week generally occur, most of them from generic 
> sources.
>

I would not say that it's a good beginner tool because knowledge of 
*nix, bash, etc is expected.  Look at the docs for proof of this.  I 
agree that many things do compile but very few will compile out of the 
box without patches.  Again, the proof is in the docs.  Also, using a 
seof console apps under XP with a Windows screen reader clearly not 
designed for the purpose is not a good example of true Linux access and 
will probably result in frustration for said beginner.  I gave up on it 
for years because of this very issue.  On the other hand, it isn't 
intended for compiling kernels and more developers are supporting it 
natively without said patches.  Again, those same developers are moving 
to MinGW instead which uses the native win32 API and not the Cygwin dll.

> Brltty worked on Cygwin long before it worked on DOS, and the DOS 
> version still isn't really ready for prime time. (Samuel or Dave, 
> please correct me if this is no longer true.)
>

I don't use this program so I can't comment.  All I know is that it 
apparently compiles under djgpp which is DOS only and predates Cygwin by 
many years.

> Bottom line: Tony doesn't like it; I do. Pay your money (free!) and 
> take your choice.
>
This is the assumption that I don't appreciate.  I said several times on 
this list that I do like it and I use it every day.  It is the best ssh 
implementation I've found so far.  I use Lynx almost every day.  I tried 
Screen as you suggested but it crashed the command prompt window.  As it 
turns out, I don't know that I need C-Kermit either, but if you look at 
the mailing list archives with Google, you'll see that I'm not the only 
one with frustration that it won't compile.  There was a CP/M version 
for gosh sakes!  It has every BSD and Linux configuration imaginable in 
the Makefile.  There is no reason why it shouldn't compile out of the 
box on Cygwin.  In conclusion, yes, I do like Cygwin which is why I've 
used it since 2003.  I just disagree that it's not a good beginner tool 
and it has many shortcomings.  It's far from a Linux/BSD emulation and 
there are many things that won't run or aren't the same.  Another thing 
that was not addressed is that, even on a fast XP machine, Cygwin is far 
slower than a slow Linux machine.  I know from experience.  I would say 
that for any serious tasks, Cygwin is painfully slow.  I've literally 
waited over 24 hours for it to process some xml files trying to convert 
to text, less than 100 MB in size.

Re: Cygwin was: Re: Linux without sighted help

[Lee Maschmeyer]

I too am sorry if I said anything offensive. It's astonishing how opposite 
our experiences are. I run `screen' from my .bash_profile which I couldn't 
do if it crashed the command prompt window. I'm puzzled and distressed that 
you had such bad luck with it and wonder if it could be a difference between 
speech and braille? Even, though I don't use Jaws braille anymore, between 
Jaws and WindowEyes? Ah! Perhaps: I'm using the version of `screen' that's 
available through the Cygwin installer; this is a program that's quite 
difficult to adapt to Cygwin and they needed, as far as I know, to patch it 
intricately. Perhaps that's the cause?

I used Cygwin when I was a beginner, which is why I suggested it. The nice 
thing is that you can, or at least I could, use the Windows screen reader to 
read the window before I knew how to install programs on a real Linux and 
had next to no access if I didn't do it right. (I've used the Optacon's CRT 
lens a time or three...)

Brltty's ability to be compiled under djgpp is very recent, within the past 
few months. Its ability to be compiled under Cygwin/MinGW is much older - at 
least a year, probably older. When I used Jaws braille I wrote some scripts 
to make it work better but it was still pretty yucky; that's why I like 
brltty so much better. But Jaws braille does work. The very little I played 
with WindowEyes it didn't work as well (don't remember the details), but I'm 
anything but a competent WindowEyes user!

Is it slow? You bet. That's why I've always said for light usage such as 
ssh, lynx, reading books, and beginner-type tasks like checking man pages. 
I'd be interested in looking at 24-hour tasks.

Every operating system has hardware and software it doesn't support. That's 
why there are compatibility lists. Cygwin is no exception and, yes, its 
non-support list is rather larger than most. I still, personally, believe it 
has a place for a beginner. Never having installed a VM I can't compare the 
two. I doubt there'd be any reason to do both. But if one has a couple GB 
free disk space Cygwin is, imho, worth considering.

-- 
Lee Maschmeyer
<lee_maschmeyer@wayne.edu>

"Be kind to your fur-bearing friends,
For a skunk may be somebody's brother."
     --Fred Allen

Re: Cygwin was: Re: Linux without sighted help

[Jude DaShiell]

Has anyone tried running activestateperl which uses cigwin I think with a 
screen reader and found all of that accessible?

Re: Cygwin was: Re: Linux without sighted help

[Tony Baechler]

You are asking two different questions here so I'll answer both.  Yes, 
the perl that comes with Cygwin is totally accessible, albeit very 
slow.  Yes, ActiveState perl is also totally accessible and is much 
faster.  The later is definitely recommended.  Because of the odd way 
Cygwin handles drives, you're stuck with the former when dealing with 
apps written to run under Cygwin.

Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Has anyone tried running activestateperl which uses cigwin I think 
> with a screen reader and found all of that accessible?

Re: Cygwin was: Re: Linux without sighted help

[Lee Maschmeyer]

My reply is probably not all that germane but anyway...

Cygwin does have Perl but I don't know about activestate - never heard of 
it. You do have to be careful not to have extra copies of the Cygwin DLL. It 
has some sort of shared code and having more than one version on the system 
messes it up.

-- 
Lee Maschmeyer
<lee_maschmeyer@wayne.edu>

"Be kind to your fur-bearing friends,
For a skunk may be somebody's brother."
     --Fred Allen

Re: Linux without sighted help

[Karen Lewellen]

Slightly off from this thread, perhaps,  but I did not get an answer when I 
asked over at speakup, that I saw at least.
Which distribution has the best hardware synthesizer support just now?
I am still leaning in the Debian, Fedora arena, wanting something more 
old fashioned then the more desktop sort of thing, because on the one hand 
I will be running DOS as my main os, and on the other, I do not want to 
use my system's sound card for speech, since I have access to a hardware 
synthesizer.
Thoughts?
Karen

SV: Linux without sighted help

[mattias]

What aer arena for linux dist?

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com
[mailto:blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com] För Karen Lewellen
Skickat: den 5 februari 2008 20:18
Till: Linux for blind general discussion
Ämne: Re: Linux without sighted help


Slightly off from this thread, perhaps,  but I did not get an answer
when I 
asked over at speakup, that I saw at least.
Which distribution has the best hardware synthesizer support just now? I
am still leaning in the Debian, Fedora arena, wanting something more 
old fashioned then the more desktop sort of thing, because on the one
hand 
I will be running DOS as my main os, and on the other, I do not want to 
use my system's sound card for speech, since I have access to a hardware

synthesizer.
Thoughts?
Karen

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Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Karen Lewellen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 1271 bytes --]

I am not sure I understand the question?


On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, mattias wrote:

> What aer arena for linux dist?
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com
> [mailto:blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com] För Karen Lewellen
> Skickat: den 5 februari 2008 20:18
> Till: Linux for blind general discussion
> Ämne: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
> Slightly off from this thread, perhaps,  but I did not get an answer
> when I
> asked over at speakup, that I saw at least.
> Which distribution has the best hardware synthesizer support just now? I
> am still leaning in the Debian, Fedora arena, wanting something more
> old fashioned then the more desktop sort of thing, because on the one
> hand
> I will be running DOS as my main os, and on the other, I do not want to
> use my system's sound card for speech, since I have access to a hardware
>
> synthesizer.
> Thoughts?
> Karen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

SV: SV: Linux without sighted help

[mattias]

What are arena for linux dist? If the dist exist

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com
[mailto:blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com] För Karen Lewellen
Skickat: den 6 februari 2008 03:11
Till: Linux for blind general discussion
Ämne: Re: SV: Linux without sighted help


I am not sure I understand the question?


On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, mattias wrote:

> What aer arena for linux dist?
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com 
> [mailto:blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com] För Karen Lewellen
> Skickat: den 5 februari 2008 20:18
> Till: Linux for blind general discussion
> Ämne: Re: Linux without sighted help
>
>
> Slightly off from this thread, perhaps,  but I did not get an answer 
> when I asked over at speakup, that I saw at least.
> Which distribution has the best hardware synthesizer support just now?
I
> am still leaning in the Debian, Fedora arena, wanting something more
> old fashioned then the more desktop sort of thing, because on the one
> hand
> I will be running DOS as my main os, and on the other, I do not want
to
> use my system's sound card for speech, since I have access to a
hardware
>
> synthesizer.
> Thoughts?
> Karen
>
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Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Kirk Reiser]

You probably didn't get an answer there because your question is based
in enough ignorance that it makes it difficult to answer it.  If you
had asked if a particular synth was supported then you would have
probably received quite a few answers.  Why do you care which distro
has the best hardware support?  Are you thinking of making a synth
purchase based on a distro recommendation for a synth you don't have?
The simple answer to your question is all of them because synth
support is a function of the screen review package not a distribution.



Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Karen Lewellen]

Granted I am not looking at my post, but I feel sure I said that I already 
have a dec talk express and wish to use this.
equally granted I had not read much on Orca, but felt it was more focused 
on software not hardware synthesizer support.  However no one said anything 
so how could I clarify if the  question is entirely ignored?
I do not read every speakup post, but know that it will not be supported 
in some future distributions of  <spelling" eubentu, because of some 
kernel factors.
  In any case, I am speculating with little information.
The thread began with the discussion of starting up Linux without sighted 
help.
This at least suggests that the screen reader would have to be a part of 
the distro package for such to happen, which is why I asked about 
distributions not screen reader programs.
So I ask again. If one is using a dec-talk express, and wants a fully 
talking Linux distribution, who has maintained the best support for this 
synthesizer?  I am using an original dec-talk express, not a USB model.
Is that better? lol!
Karen

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Kirk Reiser wrote:

> You probably didn't get an answer there because your question is based
> in enough ignorance that it makes it difficult to answer it.  If you
> had asked if a particular synth was supported then you would have
> probably received quite a few answers.  Why do you care which distro
> has the best hardware support?  Are you thinking of making a synth
> purchase based on a distro recommendation for a synth you don't have?
> The simple answer to your question is all of them because synth
> support is a function of the screen review package not a distribution.
>
>
>
> Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
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Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Samuel Thibault]

Karen Lewellen, le Wed 06 Feb 2008 12:58:37 -0500, a écrit :
> equally granted I had not read much on Orca, but felt it was more focused 
> on software not hardware synthesizer support.

Orca doesn't care which underlying synthesizer is used. It just uses the
standard gnome-speech or speech-dispatcher interfaces, and then you can
plug whatever you want to it.

Samuel

Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Kirk Reiser]

Well, I wasn't responding to you Karen at all.  I was replying to the
other poster wanting to know which distribution best supported
hardware synths.

As for the Dectalk Express probably debian or fedora but your
qualification about full support is open to interpretation.  Full
support to me is a text based console, however for others it would
include or maybe exclusively be 'X' support.  But I feel what you are
really doing is hedging because you've been asking silly questions
about this stuff for years and never actually got off your buns and
installed anything.  Try one and if you like it keep it.  If you don't
blow it away and try another one.  You could have installed every one
of them in the time you have been trying to decide which one to try.



Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
phone: (519) 661-3061

Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Karen Lewellen]

lol!
I deserve the buns jab but, honestly did not have time or resources 
until now, after my moving to Canada.  still......at my feet as I write is 
a set up machine waiting for this distribution, which is a lot further than I have done 
before so there grin!

I could not install until i had all of the hardware which now I do.
I thought i was the person asking about synths, but who knows.
to me as well full support means the console type setup, and for now that 
is what I want since I  am running DOS as my main os on the  c drive of 
this system.
Thanks for the answer though,
Karen behind a hedge.


On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Kirk Reiser wrote:

> Well, I wasn't responding to you Karen at all.  I was replying to the
> other poster wanting to know which distribution best supported
> hardware synths.
>
> As for the Dectalk Express probably debian or fedora but your
> qualification about full support is open to interpretation.  Full
> support to me is a text based console, however for others it would
> include or maybe exclusively be 'X' support.  But I feel what you are
> really doing is hedging because you've been asking silly questions
> about this stuff for years and never actually got off your buns and
> installed anything.  Try one and if you like it keep it.  If you don't
> blow it away and try another one.  You could have installed every one
> of them in the time you have been trying to decide which one to try.
>
>
>
> Kirk Reiser				The Computer Braille Facility
> e-mail: kirk@braille.uwo.ca		University of Western Ontario
> phone: (519) 661-3061
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>

Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Geoff Shang]

Hi,

What Kirk says is true in theory, but in practice if you're going to 
install the operating system by yourself, then your choices will be a 
little limited.

There are Speakup boot images for the latest Debian and Fedora releases. 
As mentioned, Ubuntu no longer comes with Speakup included, but I *think* 
that maybe version 7.04 or 6.10 had it.  Not sure if you could install with 
it, say from the alternate boot CD.

there are other smaller distributions like GRML which can also be installed 
with Speakup.

I know it has been possible to install other distributions using Speakup in 
the past, but I'm not sure of the current status of any other distribution 
currently.

Geoff.

Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Karen Lewellen]

Thanks for such  a richly helpful post.
Since two of the distributions I am considering have images that include 
speakup, best to research what both offer currently and just choose one.
Much appreciated,
Karen

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Geoff Shang wrote:

> Hi,
>
> What Kirk says is true in theory, but in practice if you're going to install 
> the operating system by yourself, then your choices will be a little limited.
>
> There are Speakup boot images for the latest Debian and Fedora releases. As 
> mentioned, Ubuntu no longer comes with Speakup included, but I *think* that 
> maybe version 7.04 or 6.10 had it.  Not sure if you could install with it, 
> say from the alternate boot CD.
>
> there are other smaller distributions like GRML which can also be installed 
> with Speakup.
>
> I know it has been possible to install other distributions using Speakup in 
> the past, but I'm not sure of the current status of any other distribution 
> currently.
>
> Geoff.
>
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>

Re: SV: Linux without sighted help

[Tony Baechler]

Well, since some answer is better than none, I'll say to look at 
Slackware.  I haven't used it since about 2000 but they said that they 
were committed to the blind and would always provide a standard kernel 
with Speakup enabled.  If that's still true or not I don't know.  Anoter 
option is Gentoo which had Speakup built into the liveCD kernel.  Since 
you use the same kernel from the live CD to do the install, that should 
work, but that's as of early 2005.  There's Debian but the standard 
distro doesn't come with Speakup enabled kernels.  You can get them from 
a Debian developer but I don't know if they get security updates.  If 
you don't mind building custom kernels, Debian is probably best because 
I think the first CD comes with Speakup.  I also use a DEC-Talk Express 
and Doubletalk LT.

Karen Lewellen wrote:
> So I ask again. If one is using a dec-talk express, and wants a fully 
> talking Linux distribution, who has maintained the best support for 
> this synthesizer?  I am using an original dec-talk express, not a USB 
> model.

SV: SV: Linux without sighted help

[mattias]

Anyone know wich linux dists have brltty?
I know debian and ubuntu
And now i talk about both installer etc

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com
[mailto:blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com] För Tony Baechler
Skickat: den 7 februari 2008 10:09
Till: Linux for blind general discussion
Ämne: Re: SV: Linux without sighted help


Well, since some answer is better than none, I'll say to look at 
Slackware.  I haven't used it since about 2000 but they said that they 
were committed to the blind and would always provide a standard kernel 
with Speakup enabled.  If that's still true or not I don't know.  Anoter

option is Gentoo which had Speakup built into the liveCD kernel.  Since 
you use the same kernel from the live CD to do the install, that should 
work, but that's as of early 2005.  There's Debian but the standard 
distro doesn't come with Speakup enabled kernels.  You can get them from

a Debian developer but I don't know if they get security updates.  If 
you don't mind building custom kernels, Debian is probably best because 
I think the first CD comes with Speakup.  I also use a DEC-Talk Express 
and Doubletalk LT.

Karen Lewellen wrote:
> So I ask again. If one is using a dec-talk express, and wants a fully
> talking Linux distribution, who has maintained the best support for 
> this synthesizer?  I am using an original dec-talk express, not a USB 
> model.

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Re: Linux without sighted help

[Lorenzo Taylor]

Actually, you're better off waiting about 5 seconds after the CD starts
spinning to press f5. CD's usually spin for about 30 seconds, and
Ubuntu's boot timer runs 30 seconds, so if you wait until the CD stops,
it will start booting before you press f5. On the other hand, the boot
prompt actually appears within 1 second of the CD starting to spin, so
if you wait 5 seconds, you will take into account a potentially slow
computer or drive and still be able to press f5 before booting actually
starts. Once you press f5, you can press 3 and enter twice at any time,
since pressing f5 stops the boot timer.

HTH,
Lorenzo