From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 4578D1EF82A; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 04:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailer.coolip.net (mailer.coolip.net [54.165.87.160]) by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6471E1EF828 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 04:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailer.coolip.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D77BC610C1 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 03:08:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailer.coolip.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailer.coolip.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id klmG9_RwD3EK for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 03:08:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailer.coolip.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89F2610C2 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 03:08:23 -0500 (CDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mailer.coolip.net Received: from mailer.coolip.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mailer.coolip.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 2xl0YTWWSSaj for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 03:08:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ip-10-28-191-195.ec2.internal (zaria.coolip.net [50.16.211.118]) by mailer.coolip.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BCC05610C1 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 03:08:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 03:08:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Kelly Prescott To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." Subject: Re: the push to get rid of CONFIG_VT in the kernel and the future of Speakup In-Reply-To: <54359F71.3090600@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <87zjd64c16.fsf@mushroom.PK5001Z> <543593E4.5040400@gmail.com> <54359B9E.10203@verizon.net> <54359F71.3090600@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (LRH 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 X-BeenThere: speakup@linux-speakup.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 08:08:25 -0000 I am not sure I am a fan of this upcoming change, but I believe we can find ways to continue without much more inconvenience than we already have. First, I agree with Brian, I never install speakup on a server I manage, and I manage lots of them. They are all managed through the network. Second, I actually see a possible advantage in the systemd interface as it does lots of detailed logging of the boot process. I think we have all known for years that the hardware synthesizers are going the way of the land-line telephone... ;) With that said, however, I have a few thoughts: 1: either use yasr or rewrite speakup to be in userspace. 2: Take Chris's idea of a ramdisk approach and maybe write a little thing for systemd to hold and either echo the boot messages or put them somewhere they can be read by the user. Most distributions already place them in /var/log anyway. 3: why not look at writing something to go with a UEFI boot loader to speak the early boot screens. I am not a UEFI expert, but it looks like it might be possible to get boot loaders to push text out a serial port or maybe a USB interface. This would only leave a small gap between the loading of the kernel and enabling speech from the ramdisk. I have done some checking and I get software speakup speech with systemd between 8 and 13 seconds into the boot. The time difference is related to which distribution I use. I welcome all thoughts or constructive criticism. -- Kelly prescott On Wed, 8 Oct 2014, Kyle wrote: > According to Al Sten-Clanton: > # My knowledge of this business is minimal, but I thought that one > # advantage of the current approach, if you can use a hardware speech > # synthesizer, is that you can get at least some of the boot-up > # messages--not as early as sighted folks get them, but well before > # software speech can kick in. If this is true, wouldn't the proposed > # change be a very builty-in reduction in non-visual access? > > This was a lot more true in the early days of Linux than it is now. > Computers have evolved to the point where most of them, especially home > computers, no longer have dedicated serial ports, which is the only type > of port over which Speakup is able to communicate with a hardware speech > synthesizer. To add to the problem, very few hardware speech > synthesizers are currently being made these days, and those that are > still being produced only have a USB interface. So in order to take > advantage of receiving every kernel message from startup to shutdown, > one must have an old computer or a server, as well as an old hardware > synthesizer purchased used, probably something like an old DECTalk > Express, accent SA, DoubleTalk LT, etc. And sadly no, a USB to serial > converter will not solve the problem of getting a serial port onto a > laptop or most desktop computers, as Speakup has no knowledge of this > type of device, nor does it know how to communicate through it, as I > believe it has to be enumerated by udev or similar, meaning it isn't > *always* going to have the name /dev/ttyS1 or /dev/ttyS2 or similar. I > hope this answers your question. > ~Kyle > http://kyle.tk/ > -- > "Kyle? ... She calls her cake, Kyle?" > Out of This World, season 2 episode 21 - "The Amazing Evie" > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup