From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from dsl092-170-086.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([66.92.170.86] helo=toccata.dsl092-170-083.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) by speech.braille.uwo.ca with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 16V2Cz-0001OT-00 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:11:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (janina@localhost) by toccata.dsl092-170-083.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0S39EJ01986 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:09:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: toccata.grg.afb.net: janina owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:09:14 -0500 (EST) From: Janina Sajka X-X-Sender: janina@toccata.dsl092-170-083.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Subject: Re: What I did on my summer holidays. In-Reply-To: <000d01c1a7a6$83724b80$7f7ef59b@essex.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by toccata.dsl092-170-083.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net id g0S39EJ01986 Sender: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca Errors-To: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca X-BeenThere: speakup@braille.uwo.ca X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Part of the problem is that creating braille or tape versions is generall= y=20 a "one-off" done by hand from a printed page. Not very efficient. What=20 we're trying to eingineer with NISO/DAISY, and with our participation in=20 the OEBF, is access to the underlying text in a well-marked-up XML (or=20 SGML). If we can get publishers to: 1.) Use good markup; 2.) Allow us to build a server-based delivery system; we should be able to do much much better. But, Saqib, don't hold your=20 breath! I do think this can work, eventually. Either, the publishers files, as=20 sold, would be directly accessible, or we would use an AFB server, or an=20 RNIB server, etc., etc., to re-package the contents in the NISO/DAISY=20 wrapper. I call this "Electronic Chafee," by the way. We're working on=20 this in my office--it's one of my long term goals. One more note about Chafee ... While it's helped us here in the States, it has harmed everyone else.=20 Here's why. The old way, before there was a Chafee Amendment, had the U.S= .=20 National Library Service for the Blind (and other agneices) requesting=20 permission by hand, one book at a time. Well, it took no extra effort to=20 request international rights, as well as national (U.S.) rights when they= =20 did it this way. Now, under Chafee, there's no rights request, because=20 that's what Chafee is--a blanket check on national rights. So, no=20 international rights are being requested by anyone here in the States, an= d=20 it's slower and harder for libraries/agencies outside of the States to ge= t=20 this. On Mon, 28 Jan 2002,=20 Saqib Shaikh wrote: > Hi Janina, >=20 > I was really happy to hear that we'll be getting Daisy books in the spr= ing! >=20 > What you say about "getting permission from the publishers" hits home r= ight > enough. While this law is on the verge of changing here in the UK it me= ans: > 1. Books are rediculously out of date. The most recent braille title on > computing we have is the MS-DOS 5.0 users manual! > 2. Tapes are also out of date. I wanted a Tanenbaum book for my hardwar= e > course (something like 5th editicion 2001). 4th edition would have been= ok > but I got 1st edition, 1978. Three years before I was born! So I got to > learn about how computers were long before I was thought of > 3. We're also excluded from the US National Braille Library's ebraille > initiative and also the bookshare project. > 4. To finish off my ranting I did the following research a year and a h= alf > ago before I started my degree. Following the findings I have given up = on > books in special formats and just have a humna reader. > Findings: > I was told that a thousand page computer science text would take approx= 1.5 > years to put onto tape. Approx 3-5 years to put into braille. > A braille/taping centre at a nearby university offered to do the job un= til > they realised that nobody knew anything about squiggly brackets etc and= sad > no can do. Finally, I looked into putting a book into braille privately= from > two different sources. Both stated that they would charge approx =A330 = or $50 > per hour, making a grand total of 10 thousand pounds approx fifteen tho= usand > dollars. >=20 > I'll leave you with that thought. >=20 > Saqib > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janina Sajka" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:29 AM > Subject: Re: What I did on my summer holidays. >=20 >=20 > > I think Kirk got it about right below. Especially the part about "sum= mer," > > because it was certainly unseasonally warm in Toronto last week! > > > > One note about the 15/16 ips, four-track cassettes as specialized med= ia. > > This format was defined explicitly as a specialized format for blind = users > > of specially produced content. One can think of this format as a kind= of > > analog tape intellectual property protection scheme. We can hope and = dream > > of a day when we don't need such things, but we need them now if we'r= e > > going to have access to large quantities of published books in a > > format/medium that really works for us. > > > > I should note that many countries are jealous of the U.S.' Chafee > > Amendement. In most other countries (though not all), organizations > > producing braille or audio (and soon the DAISY format) need to get > > permission in writing from copyright holders before they can begin to > > produce a title. This takes a lot of time, and, of course, producing > > titles takes a lot of time to. One side benefit of the Chafee Amendme= nt > > means that titles can be made available much more quickly than before. > > > > The goal, of course, is to get as many titles produced in the DAISY f= ormat > > as quickly as possible, and to get them into users' hands as quickly = as > > possible. Another goal is to give users a wide range of choices in th= e > > technology they use to "read" this content. There are already some > > hardware devices that 'play" DAISY titles--and there will be more. Th= ere > > are also software players already--and there will be many more of the= se, > > on all the OS used by us. > > > > So, I am very glad that Kirk was with us last week. The Digital Talki= ng > > Book technology is going to be very important to our community, and w= e > > need the widest range of experience and viewpoint in getting the basi= cs > > right so that anyone and everyone who qualifies can participate. > > > > PS: If you live in the U.K., you will have the option of titles in DA= ISY > > late this spring. Here in the States, we'll have to wait a bit longer. > > > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka, Director > > Technology Research and Development > > Governmental Relations Group > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > > > > Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) > > http://www.openebook.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >=20 --=20 =09 Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org