From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net ([151.164.30.27]) by speech.braille.uwo.ca with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16mH6c-0005OR-00 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:32:30 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.136.202.251]) by mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.03.23.18.03.p10) with ESMTP id <0GT200IE7RA5TQ@mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net> for speakup@braille.uwo.ca; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:32:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:32:28 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Villa Subject: Re: Computer Science In-reply-to: <021301c1ccfc$bd10bc20$6401a8c0@columbus.rr.com> To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca Errors-To: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca X-BeenThere: speakup@braille.uwo.ca X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Actually, you can do structured programming in assembly. When I was= =20 with the airlines, we were required to write all of the reservations= =20 system programs in a structured way. On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Bruce Noblick=20 wrote: > Hi! >=20 > I couldn't resist jumping in here. First, I miss assembler languag= e > programming. I know it isn't standard, it doesn't lend itself to s= tructured > techniques and all of that but it is how things eventually get done= inside > the computer and I guess that is what I like. I have worked with I= BM > 360/370 assembler, Unisys 1100/2200/4800 assembler, PC assemblers b= ack as > far as the 8080 and Z80 with CP/M and of course the rest of the Int= el stuff > under MSDOS and liked them all. I know this list is supposed to be= about > other things but assembler language is so close to my heart that I = couldn't > resist. >=20 > Enjoy! > Bruce >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amanda Lee" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:39 PM > Subject: Re: Computer Science >=20 >=20 > Amen! Richard, I miss it and would love to go back to coding and ma= intaining > Assembler code again! >=20 > Amanda Lee >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Villa" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:02 PM > Subject: Re: Computer Science >=20 >=20 > I wonder when the last time anyone did any real programming not jus= t > coding using a language like assembler. >=20 > I don't believe anyone knows what programming is until they have to > write in an assembly language. > On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Johan > Bergstr=F6m wrote: >=20 > > In sweden the universities teach lisp/ada/c/c++ and other program= ming > > languages. Not IDE's. At least the ones I know about. There are s= eparate > > windows programming classes, at some places, which are specially = for > > people who enjoy that kind of stuff, where they debug the windows= kernel > > using softice and stuff like that. They run most of their server = in a *nix > > based enviroment. > > > > johbe > > > > On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Thomas Ward wrote: > > > > > Amanda so true. I am a CS student myself and I know exactly wha= t my > college > > > teaches. They teach you Visual Basic, html with Javascript, Vi= sual C++, > MS > > > SQL, MS Access, and you get the point. > > > Almost everything is now Microsoft this, and Microsoft that. In= fact all > the > > > computers in the CS labs have Windows NT on them. > > > They use to offer Unix C programming courses, but I don't think= they do > any > > > more. Been a while since I stepped into a class room, and when = I went > > > through they were just making the switch to MS everything. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Amanda Lee > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:36 AM > > > Subject: Re: Computer Science > > > > > > > > > > Nope, Unix, Mainframes aren't standard anymore. The college = grads we > get > > > > these days at Verizon have no clue what Unix or Mainframes ar= e all > about. > > > > Everything is taught on a Windows-based Platform. I believe = JAVA is > > > > taught, probably Visual Basic, Maybe sometimes C Language but= usually > C > > > > Plus Plus which was actually abandoned in the project I work = on for > > > > straight C Language. > > > > > > > > I would think in the future though, there will be a change ba= ck to at > > > > least teaching Linux since it can run on a less expensive pla= tform. > It's > > > > pretty disgraceful how the content of Computer Sciences educa= tion has > been > > > > degraded and these kids coming out have an ego bigger than li= fe and > think > > > > they can take on the World in a day! > > > > > > > > They really struggle when they can't understand how to progra= m and the > > > > quality of code coming out is pretty awful. There is even th= is > mentality > > > > in the Corporate World which indicates that one can learn eve= rything > they > > > > need to on the job and yet they can't figure out why there a= re so > many > > > > problems with efficiency and the costs resulting from poor ef= ficiency. > > > > > > > > Amanda Lee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 jwantz@hpcc2.hpcc.noaa.gov wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > I'm not going to get involved in the "bookshare wars', but = since you > > > were > > > > > chastizing others on this list because most people use WIND= OWS and > not > > > > > linux, I think its only fair to point out that your compute= r science > > > > > department is very nonstandard. Though I am a meteorologis= t, not a > > > > > computer science person, I know many computer science stude= nts in > the > > > past > > > > > and the present. Teaching WINDOWS programming is very nons= tandard. > I > > > > > would guess that at least 90 percent of the schools teach > programming on > > > a > > > > > UNIX variant of some kind. In the past thre was a fair amo= unt of > people > > > > > using VMS. However, a lot of beginning C and C++ classes d= id use > > > > > Turbo/Borland. WINDOWS programming is much more difficult = than UNIX > > > > > programming, so I suppose you are to be congratulated for m= aking it > > > > > through such a tough curriculum. > > > > > > > > > > Jim Wantz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > >=20 > -- > It is better to give then to receive. You don't believe me, just a= sk a > boxer. >=20 > Richard >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >=20 --=20 It is better to give then to receive. You don't believe me, just ask= a=20 boxer. Richard